Author Topic: "A black sheriff?!": The Official Topic of Obama and New Era American Politics (Read 2049835 times)

Phoenix Dark · « **Reply #6960 on:** December 20, 2009, 12:59:04 AM »

Quote from: Mandark on December 20, 2009, 12:21:23 AM

Sarah Palin tweets:

"Copenhgen=arrogance of man2think we can change nature's ways.MUST b good stewards of God's earth,but arrogant&naive2say man overpwers nature"

"Earth saw clmate chnge4 ions;will cont 2 c chnges.R duty2responsbly devlop resorces4humankind/not pollute&destroy;but cant alter naturl chng"

Really, what needs to be said?

Arrogance to think man can change nature's ways...

...must be good stewards of the earth

What does it matter if man can't change anything?

recursivelyenumerable · « **Reply #6961 on:** December 20, 2009, 01:09:00 AM »

What exactly counts as "changing nature's ways", anyway? Does, say, clear-cutting a forest not count? Seems like the nature of the forest becomes pretty different once it doesn't exist anymore.

CajoleJuice · « **Reply #6962 on:** December 20, 2009, 01:27:11 AM »

The Fake Shemp · « **Reply #6963 on:** December 20, 2009, 01:31:47 AM »

Seriously, am I the only one who gets genuinely enraged when conservatives talk down to the media and the public after someone states she doesn't have the credibility to be President - usually after she posts something or says something stupid?

Then I feel like we get a lecture from the right on how America is being sexist and bullying her and "gotcha!" journalism and yadda yadda.

... but really, she is functionally distinguished mentally-challenged, right? I'm not being sexist or delusional, am I?

ToxicAdam · « **Reply #6964 on:** December 20, 2009, 01:52:23 AM »

By stalking Palin you liberals are screwing up her 2012 chances. They did the same thing to Dan Quayle post-1992 and he was damaged goods by the time '96 rolled around.

Although with her failing, maybe it will spur her into a third party role and insure an Obama win. But I suspect the GOP will pay her off in Macy's gift cards and she will go away quietly.

Mandark · « **Reply #6965 on:** December 20, 2009, 02:04:01 AM »

TA: Right. Liberal criticism really hurts you in the Republican primaries. And we should have put John Murtha in charge of the House. Nudge nudge wink wink.

Quote from: Willco on December 20, 2009, 01:31:47 AM

Seriously, am I the only one who gets genuinely enraged when conservatives talk down to the media and the public after someone states she doesn't have the credibility to be President - usually after she posts something or says something stupid?

Then I feel like we get a lecture from the right on how America is being sexist and bullying her and "gotcha!" journalism and yadda yadda.

... but really, she is functionally distinguished mentally-challenged, right? I'm not being sexist or delusional, am I?

This is pretty much her schtick. Mind numbing idiocy -> contempt from critics -> aggrieved victimhood. Repeat as needed.

I just wish that right-wingers would care about feminism when it wasn't being used to defend Palin or justify wars in Muslim countries.

Quote from: recursivelyenumerable on December 20, 2009, 01:09:00 AM

What exactly counts as "changing nature's ways", anyway? Does, say, clear-cutting a forest not count? Seems like the nature of the forest becomes pretty different once it doesn't exist anymore.

I've heard it plenty of times. It's basically the argument from intuition combined with speculation about why your opponents are always wrong. "Sounds farfetched to me, therefor it can't be true, and people who believe it must be arrogant/naive/dishonest/in a secret Malthusian cabal."

M3wThr33 · « **Reply #6966 on:** December 20, 2009, 02:10:36 AM »

Quote from: Willco on December 20, 2009, 01:31:47 AM

... but really, she is functionally distinguished mentally-challenged, right? I'm not being sexist or delusional, am I?

Yes, but she's 1 iota smarter than her supporters, which is apparently all you need.

Phoenix Dark · « **Reply #6967 on:** December 20, 2009, 02:11:20 AM »

uh oh

time to go to bed

Dickie Dee · « **Reply #6968 on:** December 20, 2009, 01:02:39 PM »

STOP ATTACKING HER FAMILY MANDARK!!!!

Human Snorenado · « **Reply #6969 on:** December 20, 2009, 02:21:04 PM »

Krugman goes all shrill on the "fiscally conservative" centrists.

Quote

And the lesson I take from that is that these people are insincere. They like posing as defenders of fiscal rectitude; they like declaring a pox on both houses; but when push comes to shove, their dislike of social insurance, their refusal to consider any government economy measures that don’t involve punishing people with lower incomes, trumps their supposed concern about acting responsibly.

Gentlemen — everyone I can think of here does happen to be male — this was your moment of truth, your test of character. You failed.

Mandark · « **Reply #6970 on:** December 20, 2009, 03:14:55 PM »

Saw that post earlier.

I love it, cause I hate Robert Samuelson.

The Fake Shemp · « **Reply #6971 on:** December 20, 2009, 03:19:02 PM »

I would consider myself a fiscally reasonable centrist. I do not agree with some of the government spending that has occurred, mostly for reasons of accountability and transparency, but I can get behind social spending that makes sense.

There are social projects that I do not get behind, though.

Mandark · « **Reply #6972 on:** December 20, 2009, 03:53:48 PM »

For background, Krugman's not talking smack about wanting to lower the deficit, but about a specific group of pundits (Robert Samuelson, Fred Hiatt, David Broder) who:

1) Make a big show of caring about the debt

2) Say that both parties need to come together to reduce the deficit

and

3) Oppose a bill which actually does reduce the deficit -- pretty dramatically in the second decade -- and addresses the single biggest threat to federal government's long-term fiscal outlook.

When the opportunity came, they didn't support what they had claimed to support. So he's concluding that they've been disingenuous, and are using deficit-reduction as a way of pushing another agenda that they'd rather not admit to having.

Dickie Dee · « **Reply #6973 on:** December 20, 2009, 06:11:50 PM »

I loved Hiatt's argument a while back that we can't afford healthcare because the country is going bankrupt - even though the plan actually reduces the deficit.

Bloodwake · « **Reply #6974 on:** December 21, 2009, 02:24:05 AM »

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/34498942/ns/politics-health_care_reform/

Well, there you go, the health care bill is going to be signed into law.

Phoenix Dark · « **Reply #6975 on:** December 21, 2009, 03:43:44 AM »

unless it falls apart in conference/Nelson attempts to blow everything up over abortion!

Mandark · « **Reply #6976 on:** December 21, 2009, 04:00:23 AM »

Booyah! Cautious optimism!

Brehvolution · « **Reply #6977 on:** December 21, 2009, 08:55:09 AM »

Republicans annihilated

Barry Egan · « **Reply #6978 on:** December 21, 2009, 09:23:47 AM »

Merry Christmas Everybody!

Signed,

The Senate

Mandark · « **Reply #6979 on:** December 21, 2009, 09:33:11 AM »

How did I not know about this site before?

If Global Warming Is Real Then Why Is It Cold

BlueTsunami · « **Reply #6980 on:** December 21, 2009, 10:00:45 AM »

I had it on Fox News for a fleeting moment and the trio talking heads in the morning had a segment about various items that will be taxed due to this Health Care bill. Lots of anger and

over a 10% tax increase for UV based tanning.

The Fake Shemp · « **Reply #6981 on:** December 21, 2009, 10:43:38 AM »

Oh no, how will Steve Doocey live?!

CajoleJuice · « **Reply #6982 on:** December 21, 2009, 10:48:21 AM »

Quote from: Mandark on December 21, 2009, 09:33:11 AM

How did I not know about this site before?

If Global Warming Is Real Then Why Is It Cold

Thank you so much.

BlueTsunami · « **Reply #6983 on:** December 21, 2009, 11:10:53 AM »

Quote from: Willco on December 21, 2009, 10:43:38 AM

Oh no, how will Steve Doocey live?!

The two dudes looked at the single female in a tight shirt as they segued into that topic, she had that "That's just sexist" look on her face. She eventually conceded to using spray tans.

The Fake Shemp · « **Reply #6984 on:** December 21, 2009, 11:13:16 AM »

I like Blue's commentary of Fox and Friends, or as it's now known as, "Two Dudes & A Single Female".

Phoenix Dark · « **Reply #6985 on:** December 21, 2009, 12:06:42 PM »

That chick sure loves playing dumb/naive. Her and Mika from Morning Joe should have their own show together

The Fake Shemp · « **Reply #6986 on:** December 21, 2009, 12:09:58 PM »

That could be dangerous. How would they even know when to start the show unless they Googled it?

Phoenix Dark · « **Reply #6987 on:** December 21, 2009, 12:31:57 PM »

Quote from: Willco on December 21, 2009, 12:09:58 PM

That could be dangerous. How would they even know when to start the show unless they Googled it?

"what do I click?"
"is this a touchscreen monitor? dunno"
"internet explorer...that's Microsoft right. so mozilla...Apple?"
"someone told me you don't have to type www"
"oh look, 36 degrees in Washington DC"
"you know, if global warming is true how come it's so cold?"
"lets tweet that"
"you mean google?"

BlueTsunami · « **Reply #6988 on:** December 21, 2009, 12:37:08 PM »

The above picture also doubles as a pre green screen pic of Avatar 2... or some Japanese anime, I forget.

Brehvolution · « **Reply #6989 on:** December 21, 2009, 12:46:07 PM »

Quote from: Willco on December 21, 2009, 12:09:58 PM

That could be dangerous. How would they even know when to start the show unless they Googled it?

John Stewart explains it.

Brehvolution · « **Reply #6990 on:** December 21, 2009, 01:19:57 PM »

Smack, it was laid down.

Quote

When it turns out there are no death panels, when there is no bureaucrat between you and your doctor, when the ways your health care changes seem like a good deal to you, and a pretty smart idea, when the American public sees the discrepancy between what really is, and what they were told by the Republicans, there will be a reckoning. There will come a day of judgment about who was telling the truth.

I'm glad they are calling them out on their bullshit.

Phoenix Dark · « **Reply #6991 on:** December 21, 2009, 01:20:28 PM »

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/12/09/jon-stewart-calls-out-gre_n_385158.html

holy shit

Brehvolution · « **Reply #6992 on:** December 21, 2009, 01:26:48 PM »

Quote from: Phoenix Dark on December 21, 2009, 01:20:28 PM

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/12/09/jon-stewart-calls-out-gre_n_385158.html

holy shit

Did you click the link 2 posts above yours?

Phoenix Dark · « **Reply #6993 on:** December 21, 2009, 02:10:50 PM »

wow I guess I had a Gretchen moment :'(

Brehvolution · « **Reply #6994 on:** December 21, 2009, 02:23:22 PM »

It's ok. I posted the same article here that you posted on gaf... before I saw that you had posted it there.

Rman · « **Reply #6995 on:** December 21, 2009, 03:53:47 PM »

Quote

FDL has become the go-to place for coverage of the health care bill due to the work of our incredible team. Jon Walker’s second-to-none knowledge of the health care bill has made the policy and political analysis he offers up at FDL Action a driving force. Dave Dayen’s reporting at the FDL News Desk, Marcy Wheeler ’s research and in-depth analysis at Emptywheel, Laura Flanders’ interviews at GritTV, our FDL team of writers and editors, and our community members at The Seminal provide the most independent and comprehensive picture of what’s happening moment-by-moment on the health care debate to be found anywhere.

So, I asked them to help make it simple: how do we let people know what’s going to happen to them if the Senate bill passes? Everyone put their heads together and came up with a list:

Top 10 Reasons to Kill Senate Health Care Bill

-Forces you to pay up to 8% of your income to private insurance corporations — whether you want to or not.
If you refuse to buy the insurance, you’ll have to pay penalties of up to 2% of your annual income to the IRS.

-Many will be forced to buy poor-quality insurance they can’t afford to use, with $11,900 in annual out-of-pocket expenses over and above their annual premiums.

-Massive restriction on a woman’s right to choose, designed to trigger a challenge to Roe v. Wade in the Supreme Court.

-Paid for by taxes on the middle class insurance plan you have right now through your employer, causing them to cut back benefits and increase co-pays.

-Many of the taxes to pay for the bill start now, but most Americans won’t see any benefits — like an end to discrimination against those with preexisting conditions — until 2014 when the program begins.

-Allows insurance companies to charge people who are older 300% more than others.

-Grants monopolies to drug companies that will keep generic versions of expensive biotech drugs from ever coming to market.

-No re-importation of prescription drugs, which would save consumers $100 billion over 10 years.

-The cost of medical care will continue to rise, and insurance premiums for a family of four will rise an average of $1,000 a year — meaning in 10 years, your family’s insurance premium will be $10,000 more annually than it is right now.

Background info on the points can be found at

http://fdlaction.firedoglake.com/2009/12/21/10-reasons-to-kill-the-senate-bill/

Brehvolution · « **Reply #6996 on:** December 21, 2009, 04:06:15 PM »

If FDL knows so much about the bill, they would know it's not the final version.

Mandark · « **Reply #6997 on:** December 21, 2009, 04:12:57 PM »

Quote

-Paid for by taxes on the middle class insurance plan you have right now through your employer, causing them to cut back benefits and increase co-pays.

I think it's telling that the FDL writer assumed their audience already has employer-provided insurance, and that it's expensive enough to be subject to the excise tax.

Human Snorenado · « **Reply #6998 on:** December 21, 2009, 04:20:36 PM »

Yeah, aren't the only plans subject to the tax like in excess of 20k a year or something?

Mandark · « **Reply #6999 on:** December 21, 2009, 04:32:41 PM »

Yeah, but it's indexed to inflation (or inflation plus X), rather than being indexed to the growth of health care costs. So unless the costs come under control, it will gradually affect more and more plans. But that's sort of the point. Either insurers figure out a way to keep costs down or they lose out on the implicit subsidy of health benefits being tax exempt.

Generally speaking, the complaints at FDL are about how the bill falls short of the ideal. Some of the points seem overblown, but they're probably on target for the most part. But in almost all these cases the bill is still an improvement over the status quo, which is what we're stuck with if it doesn't pass.

Van Cruncheon · « **Reply #7000 on:** December 21, 2009, 04:35:58 PM »

i don't think americans are gonna react well if this costs them anything beyond what they pay already, even if or ESPECIALLY if they pay nothing

again, what happens to the folks that can't afford $10K/yr for their family of four?

single-payer or nothing, honestly

Mandark · « **Reply #7001 on:** December 21, 2009, 05:10:49 PM »

http://www.kaiserhealthnews.org/Columns/2009/December/122109Cohn.aspx

wtf is up with all the liberal nihilism going around right now?

Oblivion · « **Reply #7002 on:** December 21, 2009, 05:16:35 PM »

So...are we happy about this bill or what?

Human Snorenado · « **Reply #7003 on:** December 21, 2009, 05:26:01 PM »

If my options are a) this bill, b) the status quo or c) a Republican wet-dream of total deregulation coupled with a mandate to buy shitty insurance then yeah I guess I'm gonna go with option a.

Van Cruncheon · « **Reply #7004 on:** December 21, 2009, 07:00:43 PM »

most families of four i know below $40K/yr -- i.e. both parents are "39 hour part-timers" with no health care -- pay $0 in health care and rely on emergency room shenanigans!

Mandark · « **Reply #7005 on:** December 21, 2009, 07:29:48 PM »

Well, true that.

A friend's mom was working two jobs (restaurant and retail) until recently and her husband's unemployable from diabetes complications. I think she'd jump at a chance for a decent plan at $2k a year, except I'm not sure they ever pay their hospital bills.

Boogie · « **Reply #7006 on:** December 21, 2009, 07:33:37 PM »

See, it's anecdotes like those last two that make me go

Brehvolution · « **Reply #7007 on:** December 21, 2009, 07:43:36 PM »

When I was at a family xmas party on Saturday, my cousin(who is 34) showed us her purple foot from a recently sprained ankle. I asked what the doctor said and she said, "I can't afford to go." She is married and has 2 kids and would probably fit in that 1st or second tier of that chart.
I then gave a dirty look to my uncle whom I've had facebook arguments with about health care reform. He just looked away. I kept my mouth shut not wanting to ruin the day but it was really difficult to hold off on comments I wanted to make.

Mandark · « **Reply #7008 on:** December 21, 2009, 07:48:33 PM »

It's extremely fucked up, but if you live in the US you internalize it. Even us hippies who would tear down the whole system don't get viscerally shocked by this stuff.

An acquaintance told me recently how her husband had been laid off his job. She was working part time and he got a decent severance package, but they suddenly had a three month deadline for one of them to get full time work or they (and their son) would be without medical coverage. I just nodded and made sympathetic "that's how it is" type noises, because it wasn't surprising at all.

A friend's girlfriend (in her 20's) got diagnosed with maybe-cancer a little while ago. She works 60+ hours a week, but it's split between two jobs so no benefits. Luckily her parents are pretty well off and willing to foot the bill.

Oh, and that friend used to work at Denny's. When he was there, a lawyer in private practice had a second job as a dishwasher so he could get medical.

Human Snorenado · « **Reply #7009 on:** December 21, 2009, 07:54:15 PM »

Quote from: Boogie on December 21, 2009, 07:33:37 PM

See, it's anecdotes like those last two that make me go

Green with envy at our best in the world care, huh?

Mandark · « **Reply #7010 on:** December 21, 2009, 07:57:17 PM »

I imagine when outsiders hear about this stuff, it's like when Jinfash says something like "if this guy tells people my sister gave out her picture online, nobody will marry her."

For him it's all "meh" but for me it's all "WAT".

Van Cruncheon · « **Reply #7011 on:** December 21, 2009, 08:28:37 PM »

the trouble is, stupid fucking americans like to pretend they don't need it. this is true not just among 20-something prats but even among folks my parents' age, who will find any reason to justify not spending money on healthcare in this day of subpar employer coverage and/or denial of said coverage, largely because they can't afford even cheap premiums.

the truth shitheel americans need to face is that they NEED single-payer. NEED. obviously, they are welcome to follow the optional republican plan and die early and painfully, but the rest of us would like to see a real, tenable solution.

lose your useless pride, flag waving figgurts, and submit to proper collectivism

The Fake Shemp · « **Reply #7012 on:** December 21, 2009, 09:02:17 PM »

But why should we pay for something that's not a natural right?

Brehvolution · « **Reply #7013 on:** December 21, 2009, 10:08:01 PM »

Because it's not 1920 anymore.

Van Cruncheon · « **Reply #7014 on:** December 21, 2009, 10:31:23 PM »

Quote from: Zero Hero EDGE™ on December 21, 2009, 10:08:01 PM

Because it's not 1920 anymore.

spoiler (click to show/hide)

it's 1930. :'(

[close]

Boogie · « **Reply #7015 on:** December 21, 2009, 10:57:47 PM »

Quote from: JayDubya on December 21, 2009, 10:53:35 PM

There may be some that want such a thing, but they're by no means entitled to it.

Why not?

The Fake Shemp · « **Reply #7016 on:** December 21, 2009, 10:58:39 PM »

GAUNTLET THROWN.

Game over, Prole. Game over!

Human Snorenado · « **Reply #7017 on:** December 21, 2009, 10:58:58 PM »

You're right dude, a cancer patient doesn't NEED access to care that can keep him alive or save him. He just WANTS it.

Human Snorenado · « **Reply #7018 on:** December 21, 2009, 11:02:48 PM »

So if you work at a job that doesn't pay you well enough to afford said care, you should die. Duly noted.

Boogie · « **Reply #7019 on:** December 21, 2009, 11:07:38 PM »

Quote from: JayDubya on December 21, 2009, 11:00:57 PM

Why?

You're the one who flatly stated they're not entitled to it.

Now, in my opinion, there is room for debate in a society as to what people are entitled to, or not. That economic and social rights, in addition to political rights, are open to debate in a society. I actually think that such a debate would be interesting and productive. Unfortunately, your interest in such a debate seems to end at "well, I believe what Jefferson believed, and he was a Founding Father (TM), so there"

Of course, you are of the position that only the rights you deem to exist, actually exist. And that they exist because, as you so eloquently put it, they do.

Now, in some countries, the majority of citizens believe that they are entitled to universal health care. The view of the American people on that subject would seem to be mixed. Again, of course, in your view, they are not (full stop) entitled to it. Because you say so. And any attempt to tease out your reasoning beyond that results in hilarity and evasion.

News:

Author Topic: "A black sheriff?!": The Official Topic of Obama and New Era American Politics (Read 2049835 times)