Duckman freaks out; goes on a paintball shooting spree

[Tieno]

Tried the demo again, now with alt 2, and it feels much better. I knew what I was doing and felt in control. Still wish I could map cover to the x button and the zooming-shooting to the big triggers.
I already can tell I won't play this for the multiplayer: the controls feel too alien for me and the gameplay is too shooter-basic and there's no co-op. Will probably play singleplayer.

[duckman2000]

Fuck, it, can't be bothered

[Vizzys]

hows it like cod4 though, I have that for ps3 and I can aim just fine, unlike in this game

[duckman2000]

Tried the demo again, now with alt 2, and it feels much better. I knew what I was doing and felt in control. Still wish I could map cover to the x button and the zooming-shooting to the big triggers.
I already can tell I won't play this for the multiplayer: the controls feel too alien for me and the gameplay is too shooter-basic and there's no co-op. Will probably play singleplayer.

The seamless objective shape of MP makes it feel a bit like a co-op event, sans actual story and event set pieces. Moreso than for example the dedicated co-op in R2, but obviously not on Halo or Gears level. Also, if the controls feel alien in SP, chances are you'd actually like them more in MP.

[duckman2000]

COD4 aiming/shooting feeling is much better then KZ2 aiming.

It's certainly easier, and more pick up and play friendly. I much prefer the flow of COD4 MP, but the guns (weight, kick, sound, impact on enemies) feel silly in comparison.

The handgun in the demo is a weird little thing. It feels absolutely awesome to shoot, but I'd rather run and hide than try to use it in actual combat. I think they missed the mark on that. Limiting ROF is alright, but it feels way exaggerated.

[pilonv1]

No problems with controls here, and it looks fantastic. Alt 2 is definitely the way to go and makes things really simple.

Still it's not doing anything exciting for me. It's ticking all the right boxes but I don't have much interest in COD's single player so why would I care about this? I'm definitely interested in multiplayer though.

[Jansen]

sony must of sent out a lot of swag bags to reviewers

[maxy]

Hmm,i am seeing lots of moaning about controls on forums and graphics are not spared too,graphics don't look as good as i "imagined"-maybe that's the problem .

But it seems like a decent game for lets kill everything that moves,fps freaks.

Speed-run from some dude 3min,54sec...

[brawndolicious]

That speed run could have actually been on normal difficulty.  He killed like half of the guys from behind.

[WrikaWrek]

It's COD4, but heavy.

It's gud. I'm kinda glad it's not amazing though. I canceled my pre order, as i'm going into $ flow limitations. So i have to set my priorities to Cancun this year, and who knows what next year.

I'll have to choose Res5 over this one. But i'll pick it up eventually.

[pilonv1]

It's COD4, but heavy.

Good description

[WrikaWrek]

You going to Cancun Wrik?

Yup. During spring break.  

[dark1x]

It's COD4, but heavy.

Good description

Really?  It doesn't share a lot with CoD4.  Each of the scenarios presented in the KZ2 demo are limited to a finite number of enemies.  You approach each scenario with the "clearing the area" as an objective, rather than simply pushing forward to a specific point.  The player is able to use each area as they choose and the AI reacts accordingly.  This game actually plays like a slower, weighty version of Halo with a few improvements (cover system, iron sights aiming, running, etc).  The level design is VERY Halo. 

CoD4 always keeps you on its linear path.  The flow of battle does NOT vary depending on how you play.  If you see a bunch of guys holding down behind a wall in KZ2 or Halo, you can go after them, flush them out and take this area for yourself.  The AI will adjust accordingly.  This is not the case in CoD4.  Enemies will continue to spawn and run for specific areas until you've crossed a certain point.  The battles are not dynamic in any way.

What I don't understand is why so many people are surprised by what KZ2 is.  They did not promise innovation, and that's OK.  KZ2 is basically taking existing concepts and polishing them up to near perfection.

[Tieno]

It's COD4, but heavy.

Good description

Really?  It doesn't share a lot with CoD4.  Each of the scenarios presented in the KZ2 demo are limited to a finite number of enemies.  You approach each scenario with the "clearing the area" as an objective, rather than simply pushing forward to a specific point.  The player is able to use each area as they choose and the AI reacts accordingly.  This game actually plays like a slower, weighty version of Halo with a few improvements (cover system, iron sights aiming, running, etc).  The level design is VERY Halo. 

CoD4 always keeps you on its linear path.  The flow of battle does NOT vary depending on how you play.  If you see a bunch of guys holding down behind a wall in KZ2 or Halo, you can go after them, flush them out and take this area for yourself.  The AI will adjust accordingly.  This is not the case in CoD4.  Enemies will continue to spawn and run for specific areas until you've crossed a certain point.  The battles are not dynamic in any way.

What I don't understand is why so many people are surprised by what KZ2 is.  They did not promise innovation, and that's OK.  KZ2 is basically taking existing concepts and polishing them up to near perfection.

I feel it plays more like a first person gears, in terms of weight, cover, shooting, enemy count and placement, slowness. That's why I want gears-like control layout. For now the slow turning and aiming  in first person coupled with a seemingly narrow field of view gives me a weird feeling when I want to see the battlefield. The acceleration in higher sensitivity setting makes it harder to be accurate. Haven't gotten the time nor content to compare the battle/gameplay scenarios yet.
Everything else feels very good: shooting, reactions, guns, graphics, audio, menus. But it feels a bit like I have blinders on. Could be that I also need an adjustment period after Mirror's Edge (wider field of view, more sensitive).

Tried the demo again, now with alt 2, and it feels much better. I knew what I was doing and felt in control. Still wish I could map cover to the x button and the zooming-shooting to the big triggers.
I already can tell I won't play this for the multiplayer: the controls feel too alien for me and the gameplay is too shooter-basic and there's no co-op. Will probably play singleplayer.

The seamless objective shape of MP makes it feel a bit like a co-op event, sans actual story and event set pieces. Moreso than for example the dedicated co-op in R2, but obviously not on Halo or Gears level. Also, if the controls feel alien in SP, chances are you'd actually like them more in MP.

With MP I'm more casual, hence why I can enjoy Halo MP where I can dick around, be a warthog driver, drop shields, use mancannons.

[dark1x]

stuff stuff stuff. What I don't understand is why so many people are surprised by what KZ2 is.  They did not promise innovation, and that's OK.  KZ2 is basically taking existing concepts and polishing them up to near perfection.

you got all that from the same demo i played? :/

I'm not sure what you see as being wrong with it, to be honest.  A demo of this length essentially serves as a chance to sample the core game mechanics and experience the presentation.  It certainly seemed more polished than any other FPS I've played in the past year or two.

[dark1x]

for instance : the AI, from that demo , is polished up to perfection? It's hard to tell either way and that's what i was getting at. It's a pretty big statement for a 10 minute or demo.

or are you talking purely about visual/sound facets?

even then, it does sound a wee bit hype-y for a demo that shows so little (even less than the TGS demo in the end... bog standard "plant explosives on this tank" and "turn the six axis to open the door!" segments start just after the fade to black).

Mainly talking about visual/sound facets, really.  I think the controls are quite solid as well and it gives a good indication of how the gameplay will work.  The AI in the demo is not bad, though.  I've spent some time messing around with the AI and simply observing reactions to different approaches as well as how the your teammates battle the AI if you leave them alone.  The AI is capable of some pretty cool reactions.  It feels like a mix between Halo and Metal Gear Solid 4 in terms of how the AI reacts to the player and the battlefield in general.

The demo doesn't really reveal a lot, but it gives enough insight to those examining various aspects of the game.  The Biohazard 5 demo was very similar in that regard.  Neither of them provide a lot of gameplay, but they answer a lot of questions in regards to how things function within the game and what you can expect from the final game. 

In both cases, whether the games are great depend entirely upon how these core elements are used within the final game.  The demo simply allows us to judge the core of the game.  What they do with that core is what will ultimately matter.  You see what I'm saying? 

I think too many people are waiting to pounce on this game just as there are too many people hyping it to the heavens.  Just imagine if your first Gears of War experience involved the hospital level from Gears 2 in demo form.  I feel that the core mechanics would leave a positive impression, but it would be difficult to say whether or not the experience would be a success based on that level.

Of course, every big release seems to be met with severe backlash these days.

Just to make it clear, I'm not suggesting that KZ2 will be a great game just yet.  I'm simply passing judgement on many of the design descisions made here and noting that the game shares little with Call of Duty 4 and is more Halo + Gears than anything else.

[AdmiralViscen]

I'm a day late because PS3 downloading sucks and it nuked my router again. But it is downloading much much faster today so soon you will all be blessed with my impressions.

[WrikaWrek]

I don't understand. Gears 2 and COD4 aren't that apart.

Enemies spawn from the same places, they have the same initial routines, it's controlled section after controlled section, highly, highly scripted.

Gears is nothing like Halo. And Killzone is nothing like Halo either. Killzone is very much the same school of design of COD4, but adopts Gears of War weight and non infinite spawning enemies.

Which in COD4 makes sense, because we are talking about all out war scenarios, where it doesn't make sense for the player to "clear" up a battlefield...it's war, not some gang shootout.

Anyway, nothing like Halo.

[CurseoftheGods]

I love the demo, but something doesn't seem right with the controls. What's the closest thing to CoD4 out of the control alternatives?

[AdmiralViscen]

Wow, taking cover REALLY sucks. Also jumping is a joke. But I have no problem with anything else, game rocks.

I'm using alt 2 iirc

[y2kev]

but the press and gamers love cod4. so if you add in amazing production, why wouldn't you hype it to hell?

every big shooter gets hyped to hell. halo 3 got hyped to hell. and it was a fun game! I didn't need to dissect playing a 7 minute slice of it as to whether it lived up to the hype or not.

if you liked what you played, then I think it delivered. unless we're again going to start bitching about the crazies on gaf

[AdmiralViscen]

I didn't raelly notice that.

Why is there an action button? Couldn't you just hold the reload button in Halo? I doubt you'll be using the action button in the heat of combat (which you do in Halo to board vehicles, which is not a problem).

They could've made that a dedicated cover button, or put crouch there and let me put melee on a shoulder button.


I love that you can turn and even reload while running. Why did they make that so convenient and then make crouch and cover a hold-only nightmare.

[CurseoftheGods]

Yeah, Alt 2 seems to be the best option.

Game rocks, btw.

[cool breeze]

I'm guessing the action button gets a lot more use in multiplayer since it was also the heal button in the demo.

and the only annoying thing I heard on the Idle Thumbs podcast was that you can only hold one weapon at a time.  After the demo I expected a small pistol class and a big weapon class, but it seems like you can only swap your big weapon with another.

[AdmiralViscen]

WOW that was short

[y2kev]

I didn't raelly notice that.

Why is there an action button? Couldn't you just hold the reload button in Halo? I doubt you'll be using the action button in the heat of combat (which you do in Halo to board vehicles, which is not a problem).

They could've made that a dedicated cover button, or put crouch there and let me put melee on a shoulder button.


I love that you can turn and even reload while running. Why did they make that so convenient and then make crouch and cover a hold-only nightmare.

the QA manager guy said they are looking in to crouch toggle now to solve ALT 2 issues. so maybe it will be ironed out.

[cool breeze]

but the press and gamers love cod4. so if you add in amazing production, why wouldn't you hype it to hell?

every big shooter gets hyped to hell. halo 3 got hyped to hell. and it was a fun game! I didn't need to dissect playing a 7 minute slice of it as to whether it lived up to the hype or not.

if you liked what you played, then I think it delivered. unless we're again going to start bitching about the crazies on gaf

yeah, that is a bit stupid.  I'm sure I would have been letdown if I was to listen to how people were hyping it up.  Even things like the Chick impressions come of as someone who set expectations (in a negative way) before playing it.  But it's both radical sides here; one claiming it's super great, the other that it's a disappointment.  For big games like this it's best to just ignore the news surrounding them.  I'm probably going to do the same with Uncharted 2, Halo 3 ODST, etc.

[y2kev]

Is halo 3 STD standalone? I don't know where my copy of halo 3 is.

[cool breeze]

I'm pretty sure it's standalone

I kinda wish GTA Lost and the Damned was standalone too, I don't really get why it isnt

  I'm probably going to do the same with Uncharted 2, Halo 3 ODST, etc.

By doing this you will enjoy many more games.

yeah, unless it's a lesser known game like a MadWorld or Infamous, I'm not going to follow them too much anymore.  GTA4 taught me that if you get too hyped, you're bound to get letdown.

[AdmiralViscen]

I didn't raelly notice that.

Why is there an action button? Couldn't you just hold the reload button in Halo? I doubt you'll be using the action button in the heat of combat (which you do in Halo to board vehicles, which is not a problem).

They could've made that a dedicated cover button, or put crouch there and let me put melee on a shoulder button.


I love that you can turn and even reload while running. Why did they make that so convenient and then make crouch and cover a hold-only nightmare.

the QA manager guy said they are looking in to crouch toggle now to solve ALT 2 issues. so maybe it will be ironed out.

Cool, maybe I will wait for that to play SP.

[duckman2000]

unless we're again going to start bitching about the crazies on gaf

Well, for a gang of crazy shills, those crazies apparently have some crazy powers of suggestion. How else would you account for so many people here being disappointed in the game for not living up to the hype? You'd think the upper crust wouldn't be so impressionable as to allow their own perception of the game to be shaped by the opinions of those animals.

and the only annoying thing I heard on the Idle Thumbs podcast was that you can only hold one weapon at a time.  After the demo I expected a small pistol class and a big weapon class, but it seems like you can only swap your big weapon with another.

I'm alright with one large weapon and one sidearm, but it would be nice if SMGs were classified as sidearms. I really don't like the pistol in the demo. It's different from the one in MP.

[cool breeze]

I'm alright with one large weapon and one sidearm, but it would be nice if SMGs were classified as sidearms. I really don't like the pistol in the demo. It's different from the one in MP.

they have more pistols than the revolver?

[duckman2000]

I'm alright with one large weapon and one sidearm, but it would be nice if SMGs were classified as sidearms. I really don't like the pistol in the demo. It's different from the one in MP.

they have more pistols than the revolver?

Yeah, the standard secondary weapon in MP is more of a traditional sidearm, lighter, a bit higher ROF and faster to reload.

[y2kev]

i like the term upper crust, aa

i am thinking of evilboreans sitting around and sipping tea!

[duckman2000]

Noting, of course, that this upper crust party is apparently highly impressionable and regularly influenced by loose talk among the commoners. Inbreeding and what have you.

Anyway, I found a crappy video that shows the pistol in MP. I'm hoping that it's still the default sidearm in SP, and that they only included the revolver to show off the audio and kick. Watch with the sound off

[youtube=560,345]WcmVwbk1sBg[/youtube]

[drohne]

so i actually played the demo just now, and i think i'd be pretty psyched for this if i was at all in the mood for an fps. the lighting and atmospheric effects and post processing are some next-level shit, and it feels fantastic once you get over the first couple minutes of disorientation -- weapons have got just the right level of stopping-power, the sights on the default rifle work beautifully, and the death animations haven't been staled by gif overexposure. wasn't really expecting much from the first-person cover system, but it's actually pretty neat -- pragamatically you're going to spend a lot of time hiding behind stuff in most any fps, and now it looks and feels right. it doesn't resemble gears, but it reminds me of playing the first gears in its visual shock and tactile satisfaction. so yeah, i still think i'm going to cancel my preorder and get both versions of sfiv, but i'll play this in a couple months when various forum twats and their various console politics can't ruin it for me

[Grecco]

I wanna play you drohne in SFIV 

[Draft]

I'm not feeling the "weight" to the aiming.

Pretty fun, though. AI seems competent. Throws grenades when it should, which is like my first check box in whether or not AI is smart.

[duckman2000]

What did you think of the cover system?

[Bebpo]

The AI can throw grenades?  I missed that.  I need to try it on the harder difficulty or play something beyond the first 5 mins of the game, because all I did was cover behind one wall and take out all the guys one by one as they sat behind their cover and popped up every 20 seconds.  It was very Gears.

[drohne]

I wanna play you drohne in SFIV 

hells yeah

i know i've got cohen on my friends lists -- i'm 'drohne' on psn and xbl

[pilonv1]

The AI can throw grenades?  I missed that.  I need to try it on the harder difficulty or play something beyond the first 5 mins of the game, because all I did was cover behind one wall and take out all the guys one by one as they sat behind their cover and popped up every 20 seconds.  It was very Gears.

I tried doing that and they hit me with grenades constantly. I dont think the AI is that bad at default honestly.

[Draft]

What did you think of the cover system?

Right off the bat I wish it was sticky since my finger gets uncomfortable holding down that trigger thing.

I only played the demo once, so I'm not really in any sort of position to make in depth analysis. It's OK. I'm not sure if I like that it works Gears style, very binary, you're either fully in cover or not in cover at all. I think that maybe the more organic cover method in FPS of yore, that is moving around so that environments are between you and the bullets, is a better, more elegant execution.

[AdmiralViscen]

Cover sucks, MP 4 lyfe

[maxy]

Edge review 7/10

 
 
Hopefully scans will emerge soon

[duckman2000]

What did you think of the cover system?

Right off the bat I wish it was sticky since my finger gets uncomfortable holding down that trigger thing.

I only played the demo once, so I'm not really in any sort of position to make in depth analysis. It's OK. I'm not sure if I like that it works Gears style, very binary, you're either fully in cover or not in cover at all. I think that maybe the more organic cover method in FPS of yore, that is moving around so that environments are between you and the bullets, is a better, more elegant execution.

I've already ranted enough about disliking being crippled in games (especially when the game serves up enemies and team mates that are perfectly capable of cover fire), but I'm honestly not sold on the implementation here, at least not yet. I thought the MOHA style felt more natural. I guess all buttons are spoken for, but a simple peek function would have been nice.

As for weapon weight, try playing a game like COD4 right after playing Killzone 2. Maybe weight is a bad term to use, but it feels like the guns are real steel objects.

Edge review 7/10

 
 
Hopefully scans will emerge soon

"Not Halo"

Airlifted from NeoGAF, supposedly a summary:

"No sense of humour; too much swearing from your irritating co-soldier, Rico; story is awful; "defaults to the genre's worst impulse" all the time (using obvioiusly-placed hardware, for the most part).

Multiplayer is amazing, apparently, but (final paragraph):

Thanks largely to its online play, Killzone 2 should find itself a fanbase no one can overlook. In singleplayer, it's a testament to craft and imagination, if only because one is so immaculate while the other barely exists. It fights a great battle, it's just a shame about the war.

... they liked the gunplay, the story 'stinks', the Helghast provide some of the best enemy AI seen yet, FEAR is name checked along with Stalker and COD4, the levels could be played in any order and still have no effect on the plot, multiplayer is good and probably bolsters the score of 7/10"

So meticulously crafted SP with incredible A.I. but annoying team mates, crap story and reliance on standards, and great multiplayer. Not so unexpected.

[Valcrist]

just played the demo twice.  Yes, the controls definately feel different, I'm not quite used to them yet.  The whole not sticking to cover thing is a little weird too.  I like alternate 2 because of it's semblance to cod4, but grabbing cover and zooming and fire needs you to hold L2, then L1 and R1?  uncomfortable as fuck.  Otherwise, the gameplay is decent.
I just wanna get my hands on the multiplayer already.

also, 7 lols. 

[duckman2000]

If anything, the F.E.A.R. score seems whack. Unless the demo was a complete misrepresentation of the game, but that would be very out of character for Monolith.

Anyway, people have taken a shine to claiming that it's the review text, not the scores, that they care about. The KZ2 review should put people on both sides to the test.

[Valcrist]

If anything, the F.E.A.R. score seems whack. Unless the demo was a complete misrepresentation of the game, but that would be very out of character for Monolith.

Anyway, people have taken a shine to claiming that it's the review text, not the scores, that they care about. The KZ2 review should put people on both sides to the test.

With what information is out at the moment, it definately is a little weird to match up the score with text. 

[maxy]

So Garnett was right Fear 2>Killzone 2

Quote from Edge

As for you, Killzone (PP - Uh oh), mind your manners and stoop peering over the page at the score. It's unfortunate timing that sees two quite similar triple-A games sitting should-to-shoulder in a single issue, but unfortunate for who? Killzone 2 has the technology and spectacle; FEAR 2 has class, direction and a most mischievous sense of humour - and technology amd spectacle. It doesn't have that Hollywood shine or as modern a grasp of multiplayer, perhaps, but it does have something infinitely more important. It has fun.

K2 should have been Mp only game.

[Bebpo]

Hey, at least there's no way the story could be any worse than Resistance 2.

[WrikaWrek]

But is the story like...Gears 2 bad or MGS4 bad? Or it's like doom 3...

Because if it's bad like Gears 2 for example, i think it's great.

[maxy]

But is the story like...Gears 2 bad or MGS4 bad? Or it's like doom 3...

Because if it's bad like Gears 2 for example, i think it's great.

Maybe this will give you better impression,from Edge

The fraught team dynamic is gone, as is Killzone's neat trick of having a Helghast operative fighting by your side. The dialogue is functional, the motives obvious. And too much time is given to Rico Velasquez, the ISA's version of Cole Train. he's rotten company, so foul-mouthed that you'll wonder when gaming will overcome its latest obsession. His squadmates, to their credit, hold him in equally low regard, his courage vastly outweighing his common sense. But still, he's infinitely harder on the ears than the Helghast, who aren't exactly choirboys themselves. One day, technology like this will produce a performance worthy of an Oscar, maybe even Jean-Claude Van Damme. But not today.

Worst of all, Killzone 2 doesn't just default to the genre's worst impulses some of the time; it does so whenever the fateful question's asked: "What now Sarge?" Answers include: get on that turret, marine; grab that bazooka and take out that tank; man that mech; watch for those sentry bots; and rendezvous with Alpha Team and secure that LZ. Sentry bots? You must be joking. If you can't think for yourself after so many millions of dollars have been spent, surely it's common courtesy to make your cliché's interesting. Not here, it seems, where half the chapters feel like multiplayer maps full of bots and random waypoints.

[Tieno]

Gotta say, as I spend more time with the demo (4th or 5th playthrough) and getting used to the standard control system (sensitivity cranked up a notch) the game is really winning me over. I don't feel stupid, do cool kills, use cover effectively, see the hellghast change positions as I move around (especially noticeable in the last fight of the demo). It took a while, but I'm liking it a lot. Definitely going to get it day one now.

[Tieno]

The AI is pretty good, throws grenades, takes cover, changes position based on where I'm going (see them jump over ledges to get away from me). It's all sold very convincingly by the good animation (like seeing a hellghast go prone and shooting from cover).

[Diunx]

Edge lost all credibility for me when they didn't give mgs4 a 10.

hmm I'm gonna post that on gaf to see what happens.

[AdmiralViscen]

But is the story like...Gears 2 bad or MGS4 bad? Or it's like doom 3...

Because if it's bad like Gears 2 for example, i think it's great.

Maybe this will give you better impression,from Edge

The fraught team dynamic is gone, as is Killzone's neat trick of having a Helghast operative fighting by your side. The dialogue is functional, the motives obvious. And too much time is given to Rico Velasquez, the ISA's version of Cole Train. he's rotten company, so foul-mouthed that you'll wonder when gaming will overcome its latest obsession. His squadmates, to their credit, hold him in equally low regard, his courage vastly outweighing his common sense. But still, he's infinitely harder on the ears than the Helghast, who aren't exactly choirboys themselves. One day, technology like this will produce a performance worthy of an Oscar, maybe even Jean-Claude Van Damme. But not today.

Worst of all, Killzone 2 doesn't just default to the genre's worst impulses some of the time; it does so whenever the fateful question's asked: "What now Sarge?" Answers include: get on that turret, marine; grab that bazooka and take out that tank; man that mech; watch for those sentry bots; and rendezvous with Alpha Team and secure that LZ. Sentry bots? You must be joking. If you can't think for yourself after so many millions of dollars have been spent, surely it's common courtesy to make your cliché's interesting. Not here, it seems, where half the chapters feel like multiplayer maps full of bots and random waypoints.

Haha, owned

[y2kev]

"Fear 2 has class"

lol

[Tieno]

I pre-ordered the game 

[y2kev]

Have you played KZ Liberation? If you have a PSP you should check it out.