OMG! NPD!

[WrikaWrek]

Chow Chow destroyed...

[CHOW CHOW]

How is it like COD3 and 5 and not 4?  I like how you cleverly left that out.  If it's like COD3/5, then it's also like 4 because they all play the same.

You already made your mind up about this game before it even dropped.

And no, it's really not like COD3/4/5 at all.

1.  There's a sense of weight and realism to the movement and gunplay, while COD is extremely twitchy.  I've read forum posts at other boards where the guy tried COD4 immediately after playing KZ2 and it felt like he was controlling a spaz, the controls felt totally different.  But let's ignore that, it's like COD!

2.  The enemies take way more bullets to drop than in the COD campaigns.  But let's ignore that, it's like COD!

3.  There's a 1st person cover system that you use extensively.  I used it just as much as I used the cover in Gears.  But let's ignore that, it's like COD!

4.  The AI is tons better.  But let's ignore that, it's like COD!

5.  There's only 1 or 2 instances of infinitely respawning enemies compared to the entire COD campaigns being filled with them.  But let's ignore that, it's like COD!

6.  If Killzone 2 is like COD, then so is Halo 3, Gears of War 2, and any other shooter that uses the take cover and shoot mechanic. 

If you didn't use such broad strokes to paint your thinly veiled fanboy argument, you'd realize t's nothing like COD save for it being in the same genre.

[WrikaWrek]

Chow Chow bleeding from the nose...

[CHOW CHOW]

Lay off the shaft?  I cut you deep with that rant the other day, didn't I?

[WrikaWrek]

Poor Chow Chow. All alone. Ps3 is your friend.

[dark1x]

Why can't everyone join together and bash the shit out of the Wii instead?  People trash talk the PS3 as if it were in the lead or something.  Unlike the Wii, the PS3 is NOT a threat to your way of gaming. 

[WrikaWrek]

Unlike the Wii, the PS3 is NOT a threat to your way of gaming. 

Wii is here to save us. It has already saved me.

[dark1x]

Unlike the Wii, the PS3 is NOT a threat to your way of gaming. 

Wii is here to save us. It has already saved me.

Save you from what?  Good games?

I suppose it could be argued that the Wii would have a positive impact on your bank account, however, as there is very little software worth spending money on.

[CHOW CHOW]

COD3 is better than KZ2. The gun mechanics are far superior.

[archie4208]

Why can't everyone join together and bash the shit out of the Wii instead?  People trash talk the PS3 as if it were in the lead or something.  Unlike the Wii, the PS3 is NOT a threat to your way of gaming. 

Wii isn't affecting anything except Nintendo's balance sheet.  PS360 owners are still getting a flood of awesome games.

[CHOW CHOW]

wii fit, mario kart, wii oil painting, wii shiskebobing all demolish cod3's sales!  must be better games!

pow!

[maxy]

I don't like Wii,but i fail to see how is Wii destroying "gaming",whatever that means.
FPS are still made like there is no tomorrow,you can find other genres easily on different platforms.

The only thing that will destroy "gaming" is focus on distinguished mentally-challenged "multiplayer" experience.

[dammitmattt]

I don't like Wii,but i fail to see how is Wii destroying "gaming",whatever that means.
FPS are still made like there is no tomorrow,you can find other genres easily on different platforms.

The only thing that will destroy "gaming" is focus on distinguished mentally-challenged "multiplayer" experience.

Gaming is more popular than ever BECAUSE of the social aspect.

Not everyone wants to sit in their dungeon of a bedroom in their parents house and play JRPGs by themselves all day and all night.

[maxy]

O really?

I thought that gaming was more popular because of Wii

Btw,consoles had social aspect long before online was invented.

[Bocsius]

I don't like Wii,but i fail to see how is Wii destroying "gaming",whatever that means.
FPS are still made like there is no tomorrow,you can find other genres easily on different platforms.

The only thing that will destroy "gaming" is focus on distinguished mentally-challenged "multiplayer" experience.

Gaming is more popular than ever BECAUSE of the social aspect.

Not everyone wants to sit in their dungeon of a bedroom in their parents house and play JRPGs by themselves all day and all night.

So what you're saying is that it takes all kinds. Some people like multi, some single, some Wii, some 360, some PS3. And somehow this crazy world keeps right on spinning. I'm glad we finally reached this understanding at long last.

Arguing over video games.

[tiesto]

O really?

I thought that gaming was more popular because of Wii

Btw,consoles had social aspect long before online was invented.

In person social >>>>>>>> online social. Nintendo has that much right, at least.

[dark1x]

I don't like Wii,but i fail to see how is Wii destroying "gaming",whatever that means.
FPS are still made like there is no tomorrow,you can find other genres easily on different platforms.

The only thing that will destroy "gaming" is focus on distinguished mentally-challenged "multiplayer" experience.

Gaming is more popular than ever BECAUSE of the social aspect.

Not everyone wants to sit in their dungeon of a bedroom in their parents house and play JRPGs by themselves all day and all night.

Actually, I hate online gaming for just that reason.  I much prefer social multiplayer gaming, but many of the Wii games simply aren't good enough to be worthwhile even in those situations.

[maxy]

O really?

I thought that gaming was more popular because of Wii

Btw,consoles had social aspect long before online was invented.

In person social >>>>>>>> online social. Nintendo has that much right, at least.

Yes i agree,imo in person social aspect is a key defining console feature,something that really sets consoles and PCs apart.

[AdmiralViscen]

You're just a shrill distinguished mentally-challenged fellow and you manage to be more caustic than him on the subject of KZ2.

Blah blah blah. I'm not the one pushing an argument that is plain fucking wrong. It's not exactly surprising that dcharlie would be "disappointed" in the game (what with having deliberately nerfed the whole thing despite knowing better), but likening it to COD in terms of gameplay is pushing the whole thing into absurdity. Other than, uh, enemy behavior, weapons handling and most other aspects of combat, it's absolutely like COD. I mean, there are enemies, guns and it's a warzone. COD for sure. 

Oh, and you'd think the guy who admits that he might have played the game on the wrong difficulty would be smart enough to refrain from making flat statements like "it's simply another standard single player experience," but hey.

Please, please, stop saying stupid shit like that. It is soooo fucking stupid and you say it about everything you disagree with, every time, like a 9 year old.

And we all get the idea that dcharlie might be going into this game with a chip on his shoulder, he made that perfectly clear on his own and it doesn't need to be hammered home 14 times per page.  We also heard everything you had to say about whether or not it is like CoD (it is, a little bit!) and your opinions on dcharlie's sabotage of his own fun (which is distinguished mentally-challenged again). dcharlie handily admits that his judgments are only on the normal difficulty and they could change when he has time to play others. But I guarantee you that he's already said that by the time I've made this post lol

It's literally the exact same shit over and over again.



edit - I just remembered, you sold the game back.

[duckman2000]

Blah blah blah

We've already moved past this. If you can't keep up, then just drop out. Although it is somewhat amusing to see you constantly fly the flag of your alliance, never mind what dodgy ass arguments it happens to push. Onward for the alliance, against all reason! And on that note, seeing as how your buddy here certainly isn't a stranger to using harsh language, painting stuff with a mighty broad brush and hammering things straight through the plank, you can go ahead and can this fucking sensitivity act already.

"dcharlie handily admits that his judgments are only on the normal difficulty and they could change when he has time to play others."

Alright, so these flat statements regarding the game's quality and obviously the wrongness of its supporters, those were probably a bit ill advised then?

[demi]

O really?

I thought that gaming was more popular because of Wii

Btw,consoles had social aspect long before online was invented.

In person social >>>>>>>> online social. Nintendo has that much right, at least.

Except when you're king shit like I am, whats the point of playing with other people locally? Online > Local

[duckman2000]

edit - I just remembered, you sold the game back.

Yeah, I sold the game. I'm assuming there is some debate point of immense value to that statement, what with that emoticon and all, but I'm not sure what it is supposed to be.

[archie4208]

O really?

I thought that gaming was more popular because of Wii

Btw,consoles had social aspect long before online was invented.

In person social >>>>>>>> online social. Nintendo has that much right, at least.

Except when you're king shit like I am, whats the point of playing with other people locally? Online > Local

To play with friends?

[AdmiralViscen]

Hey dude I haven't read the forum since yesterday, I clicked newest post and saw that.

I don't know how you can call my posts in this topic allied with dcharlie's. But I also don't know how you can call everyone JUST PLAIN WRONG about stuff like input lag only to drop that line completely once GG admits it's an error and patches it.

I think I already made it clear that dcharlie's sending-up of his XFE tag is tiring. But again he is otherwise a good poster and doesn't spampost like you do. He's certainly old enough to avoid the "I am only arguing because you are completely wrong and I am completely right" thing.

And I just think it's funny that you managed to make a dozen or so posts in this topic before dcharlie even showed up, and then continued your vitriolic defense of the game, when it wasn't even worth leaving it on your shelf.



I don't even care if you must be the pro-KZ2 guy on the forum, that's fine, everyone has their game. But you can cut your number of posts in half and stop repeating the same shit over and over, and you can at least own the game you choose to defend. But the real reason I quoted your post was the line I bolded, which is completely distinguished mentally-challenged and really representative of the AA behavior that everyone dreaded when you signed up here. You had a good stretch of time after your arrival where you could be pro-Sony and MS-critical without being a caustic spamposting asshole at all times, but that has changed in the last few months and it makes too many topics here unreadable. I don't need to get back into the minutiae of your arguments with dcharlie, which you clearly love repeating.

[duckman2000]

I take issue with the COD statement, it's that simple. I also think it's enjoyable to harangue someone over choices made that would, based on their preferences, affect the game's value, at least when they go on their crusades about what a game is or is not.

And yes, I'm certainly going to comment on your alliance shit when you can regularly completely bypass the stupidity of arguments made by others for the sake of homing in on me. It's pretty fucking transparent.

As for me selling the game, few games are "worth" the shelf space in these times.

[AdmiralViscen]

It plays closer to Gears than CoD but it's not completely beyond such a comparison. There are certainly segments of the campaign that play a whole lot like CoD. I don't think it's completely stupid to say this is something like CoD, especially on normal.

I home in on you, again, because you are a caustic asshole. At all times. If it was only sometimes then you'd be just like everyone else. And you spampost to try to flood out the opinions of others, which breaks down the whole purpose of a message board.

[duckman2000]

But the real reason I quoted your post was the line I bolded, which is completely distinguished mentally-challenged and really representative of the AA behavior that everyone dreaded when you signed up here. You had a good stretch of time after your arrival where you could be pro-Sony and MS-critical without being a caustic spamposting asshole at all times, but that has changed in the last few months and it makes too many topics here unreadable.

Get off that fucking pulpit already, shitdiver. Should I dig up some posts made by these excellent posters where they gave me shit after I claimed that I disliked the PS2 and considered the Xbox to be a vastly superior, even after I detailed why that was the case? These calls for civility and reason tend to be made only when the alliance is under attack, so do fuck off with that shit.

It plays closer to Gears than CoD but it's not completely beyond such a comparison. There are certainly segments of the campaign that play a whole lot like CoD. I don't think it's completely stupid to say this is something like CoD, especially on normal.

So would you say that the combination of enemy behavior and gunplay makes it like COD, and effectively turns the whole game into a standard shooter with gameplay like COD3?

[AdmiralViscen]

If it was only sometimes then you'd be just like everyone else.

can also mean

everyone else does this sometimes, but you do it all the time

I like Killzone 2, A LOT. I like every level of campaign except the last one, and I love the multplayer. Where does that fit in with my ally dcharlie

[maxy]

So this is now Duck vs World fight

There is something better to discuss

http://multiplayerblog.mtv.com/2009/03/20/sony-now-charging-publishers-for-ps3-downloadable-content/

That situation changed with the PS3 on October 1 of last year, when Sony implemented a 16 cents per Gigabyte fee to publishers for paid and free downloadable content, according to publishing sources familiar with Sony’s policy.Game publishers are not happy about it.

[demi]

O really?

I thought that gaming was more popular because of Wii

Btw,consoles had social aspect long before online was invented.

In person social >>>>>>>> online social. Nintendo has that much right, at least.

Except when you're king shit like I am, whats the point of playing with other people locally? Online > Local

To play with friends?

Right, I don't think you understand. I am awesome. They suck. Why do I want to play with people who suck? When you play SF4 with someone who sucks - do you intentionally lower your game to even the playing field?

[duckman2000]

I like Killzone 2, A LOT. I like every level of campaign except the last one, and I love the multplayer. Where does that fit in with my ally dcharlie

That's exactly what makes it such a cute little alliance. You know the dude is fishing in the wild with many of his claims, but you will still buddy up because hey, he's arguing with me. It's cute, in a nauseating way. Hell, you even bitch at me for making broad claims of what's wrong vs what is right, despite your buddy doing the exact same thing a few pages back. Go alliance.

Maybe you'll be able to get behind a successful game one day Duck. You shoulda learned from HAZE.

Ah yes, another great moment for the grand reason squad. How many fucking times have you mongos dropped that old, used and abused lady to fight a final desperate battle in arguments? Go you.

[dark1x]

And we all get the idea that dcharlie might be going into this game with a chip on his shoulder

Heh, what baffles me is why the fuck anyone would want to play a game with such a negative attitude.  It just doesn't make any sense.

It seems like a waste of time and money.  

I can see some appeal in getting into these heated arguments over random bullshit.  I've certainly engaged in some of that myself, after all.  To play a game with the sole intention of posting an "I told you so" argument on a message board, though?  That just seems a bit extreme.

Unfortunately, as of late, the bore is making neogaf actually look civil.  The best reason to visit this place is to read demi's posts.

[Sho Nuff]

"That situation changed with the PS3 on October 1 of last year, when Sony implemented a 16 cents per Gigabyte fee to publishers for paid and free downloadable content, according to publishing sources familiar with Sony’s policy.Game publishers are not happy about it."

WOW.

Demo @ 1GB x 500,000 worldwide downloads x $.16 = $80,000  

[AdmiralViscen]

I like Killzone 2, A LOT. I like every level of campaign except the last one, and I love the multplayer. Where does that fit in with my ally dcharlie

That's exactly what makes it such a cute little alliance. You know the dude is fishing in the wild with many of his claims, but you will still buddy up because hey, he's arguing with me. It's cute, in a nauseating way. Hell, you even bitch at me for making broad claims of what's wrong vs what is right, despite your buddy doing the exact same thing a few pages back. Go alliance.

I don't think the game is EXACTLY like CoD like he does. But it is somewhat like CoD, and it's stupid to get irate when someone points that out. Especially 50x per topic, copy pasted.

I don't know what other claims he's really made except that the campaign is not among the best ever released in an FPS. I had fun with the campaign but it doesn't feel like top-shelf material to me. Uh oh I'm a fanboy now, uh oh.

He can be right, he can be wrong, but his opinion (and others') shouldn't be completely stamped out by a one-man thread wrecking crew.

[duckman2000]

I don't know what other claims he's really made except that the campaign is not among the best ever released in an FPS. I had fun with the campaign but it doesn't feel like top-shelf material to me. Uh oh I'm a fanboy now, uh oh.

How about that oh so horrible method of making broad claims about who is right and who is wrong? You can find those on page 2 of this thread. But watch out, it might upset you, what with you being so sensitive to such god awful methods. As said, this little sensitivity act of yours seems less than sincere. You are allowing your dislike of me to cloud your judgment, and that just can't be healthy.

[AdmiralViscen]

dcharlie posts half as much as you. This is about your vitriolic spamposting and fire and brimstone directed at EB users, not his one-off GAF rants directed at people who aren't even present. Or a fight with Chow Chow, who is the #1 dude on this forum when it comes to living up to a silly reputation. Just think about what I'm saying to you and maybe you can relax.

And I didn't used to dislike you, I was one of the people giving you the benefit of the doubt when you joined up here. Remember, I didn't tell anyone that you were AA because I didn't think your GAF persona was the same way you would post at a better forum. I think you became disillusioned with this place so now you're going back to that territory.

[maxy]

"That situation changed with the PS3 on October 1 of last year, when Sony implemented a 16 cents per Gigabyte fee to publishers for paid and free downloadable content, according to publishing sources familiar with Sony’s policy.Game publishers are not happy about it."

WOW.

Demo @ 1GB x 500,000 worldwide downloads x $.16 = $80,000  

Hey,its better than nothing...

[AdmiralViscen]

Wait, that includes demos? So stupid



edit:

For free content, like demos, those charges apply only during the first 60 days of the content’s release. For paid content, like map packs, the charges rack up in perpetuity, or until that content is removed from the PlayStation 3’s online store.

Still distinguished mentally-challenged. bobobobo there's no reason to pay for XBL

[demi]

$80,000 is the yearly salary for some employees at studios. Sho Nuff is just exaggerating.

[duckman2000]

And I didn't used to dislike you, I was one of the people giving you the benefit of the doubt when you joined up here. Remember, I didn't tell anyone that you were AA because I didn't think your GAF persona was the same way you would post at a better forum. I think you became disillusioned with this place so now you're going back to that territory.

The most remarkable thing about this is that you brought this shit back from its grave today, apparently looking for an argument. Talk about reverting to NeoGAF standards, eh? Next time, just be straight about your intentions and you might just be able to crusade on without clumsily trying to nail me on offenses that your own buddies are amply guilty of. Or you could bug off and let things play themselves out. Both me and dcharlie are reasonable people somewhere deep within, things usually fizzle out, probably faster without mediators.


As for the ongoing discussion, I'm surprised we haven't heard about this before. I suppose Sony isn't in a position to eat any costs right now, but putting extra weight on publishers doesn't seem very smart, given their position.

[duckman2000]

That is pretty bad. But then on the other hand, if it's per download, a higher tab would be accompanied by a higher sales number. It's a cream cake with a turd rose.

[duckman2000]

It does explain quite a bit. I suppose I always wondered who paid for the bandwidth, but I (foolishly, apparently) assumed that Sony ate those bills. So these rare timed exclusive demos, those agreements would probably include the platform company taking on the bandwidth costs then?

edit: I can't actually recall any of those being exclusive to the PS3, so hey.

[duckman2000]

I doubt the PSN will remain free for very long, and Sony has gone back on so many proclaimed standards that people are probably expecting that to change to. The biggest problem with charging for it is that the service then has to be worth the price, meaning more content and more features. I like PSN, it's good enough for my type of online gaming, but it's basically what I would expect from a PC service, which I also wouldn't pay for.

Worse than any of this is the boneheaded decision to charge for LBP dlc, even fucking costumes. It's a low cost, but the fact that there is a cost at all is going to turn a ton of people off right away. Using actual currency probably wasn't the smartest decision, either.

[Human Snorenado]

HOME will change everything.

spoiler (click to show/hide)

HOME.

[close]

[duckman2000]

Maybe a premium subscription service, without the attached "magazine?" I think people would be more willing to buy a subscription if it ensured a steady flow of game demos and maybe a certain amount of movies per subscription period. It would be a horrible thing for everyone, but barring making the PSN itself subscription based, that's the only thing I could see them doing. Well, other than staying the course and pissing off publishers.

I wonder how much they sunk into the development of Home?

[AdmiralViscen]

actually, fuck it, he's clueless. I wouldn't want to have another half-hour old 'revival'

[duckman2000]

I said over and over again that I didn't want to have the same fight you had already had, but wanted to talk about your own behavior instead. Not clear enough for you?

I know you are trying to talk about my behavior because lord knows you rarely talk about anything else, but it all rings so fucking false when you're trying to nail me on my supposedly poor behavior, while standing up for/turning a blind eye to very similar behavior in others. And it's all in an effort to keep the argumentative flame burning. As said, this feels more like a NeoGAF argument than anything else, so fuck off already.

[duckman2000]

Why the fuck are you guys still arguing? jesus christ.

True, we wouldn't want to disrupt the circle Homejobs

[duckman2000]

The icon is sitting there, but I haven't been able to bring myself to install it. I genuinely do not understand Home, but then I also don't get MMOs or virtual reality communities. I'm also still wondering how much went into the development of this application. I'd guess that maybe my kid would think it was fun to run around with an avatar like that, but I'm not setting a 4-year old free in that shitpit.

[dark1x]

The icon is sitting there, but I haven't been able to bring myself to install it. I genuinely do not understand Home, but then I also don't get MMOs or virtual reality communities. I'm also still wondering how much went into the development of this application.

Whatever they put in to it, it was too much. But you should install it just to see if people are actually still using it or not. But from the lack of anything related to it in the news at all, I'm assume its pretty much dead at this point.

What a terrible terrible idea Home ended up being.  I knew it wouldn't work from the beginning and it was worse than expected.  At least Little Big Planet was a resounding success (in terms of quality).

[archie4208]

http://www.edge-online.com/news/house-dead-overkill-sells-45k

Bububu 3rd parties do just fine on Wii!!!

[WrikaWrek]

We are way too old for this shit.

[duckman2000]

I think the Wii has more or less hit its drop off point in terms of hard core gamers. GAF still has its Nintards, who probably don't even touch the system anymore, but other than that, its just become a Karaoke machine.

The Wii does have the best game ever, though. And maybe one day it will have another game that is just as good. Or hell, another game that is good. Not that there is much incentive for Nintendo to try, mind you.

[AdmiralViscen]

I said over and over again that I didn't want to have the same fight you had already had, but wanted to talk about your own behavior instead. Not clear enough for you?

I know you are trying to talk about my behavior because lord knows you rarely talk about anything else, but it all rings so fucking false when you're trying to nail me on my supposedly poor behavior, while standing up for/turning a blind eye to very similar behavior in others. And it's all in an effort to keep the argumentative flame burning. As said, this feels more like a NeoGAF argument than anything else, so fuck off already.

...I edited that whole post out 11 minutes before you responded to it you dumbfuck. And then you still only took a fragment from it. My first post today was like 8 hours away from dcharlies last post on the subject, so I don't know how any of it qualifies as a revival. 90% of your posts are limited to topics relating to your pet issues, and you prowl them like a junkyard dog waiting for someone to attack. I'm asking you to shut the fuck up. dcharlie makes real posts in real topics alongside his Sfag bait.

Hey look my ally dcharlie is mad at me for what I said in reference to him, that's impossible.

I didn't say you bought it to troll it dcharlie, I said that you went into it with a chip on your shoulder. You went into it with a critical eye, didn't you? I sure did. And I think the SP is just a cut above average too, so.

This is what I'm talking about, the battle lines being drawn on this site all the time. The temperature is way too hot in certain topics, which gets annoying when you actually want to have a frank discussion about that game or issue.

[demi]

I'll leave it open for today, let it all out before then

Lames

My 360  :'(

[duckman2000]

I said over and over again that I didn't want to have the same fight you had already had, but wanted to talk about your own behavior instead. Not clear enough for you?

I know you are trying to talk about my behavior because lord knows you rarely talk about anything else, but it all rings so fucking false when you're trying to nail me on my supposedly poor behavior, while standing up for/turning a blind eye to very similar behavior in others. And it's all in an effort to keep the argumentative flame burning. As said, this feels more like a NeoGAF argument than anything else, so fuck off already.

...I edited that whole post out 11 minutes before you responded to it you dumbfuck. And then you still only took a fragment from it. My first post today was like 8 hours away from dcharlies last post on the subject, so I don't know how any of it qualifies as a revival. 90% of your posts are limited to topics relating to your pet issues, and you prowl them like a junkyard dog waiting for someone to attack. I'm asking you to shut the fuck up.

Hey nitwit, I've been talking about Home and online services for a while here. Try to control that GAF revival spirit of yours and stay on topic, would you?

[AdmiralViscen]

I said over and over again that I didn't want to have the same fight you had already had, but wanted to talk about your own behavior instead. Not clear enough for you?

I know you are trying to talk about my behavior because lord knows you rarely talk about anything else, but it all rings so fucking false when you're trying to nail me on my supposedly poor behavior, while standing up for/turning a blind eye to very similar behavior in others. And it's all in an effort to keep the argumentative flame burning. As said, this feels more like a NeoGAF argument than anything else, so fuck off already.

...I edited that whole post out 11 minutes before you responded to it you dumbfuck. And then you still only took a fragment from it. My first post today was like 8 hours away from dcharlies last post on the subject, so I don't know how any of it qualifies as a revival. 90% of your posts are limited to topics relating to your pet issues, and you prowl them like a junkyard dog waiting for someone to attack. I'm asking you to shut the fuck up.

Hey nitwit, I've been talking about Home and online services for a while here. Try to control that GAF revival spirit of yours and stay on topic, would you?

Which is exactly what you did at the top of the page man. You responded to a post that I'd completely deleted already.

You skipped over a solid hour of people talking about Sony DLC fees lol. I'm done, feel free to nab the last word 2 hours from now.

[duckman2000]

Which is exactly what you did at the top of the page man. You responded to a post that I'd completely deleted already.

Again, we have been talking about other shit for some time here, but you seem insistent on keeping it neat and GAF. Good thing we have your slow ass to guard the integrity of discussion around here.

[duckman2000]

Is that the kid from Jesus Camp?

[duckman2000]

haven't seen it yet.

You probably shouldn't. It's good, but it's pretty damned troubling. Although I think it bothered the wife more than it bothered me, since she's sort of Christian. I learned that Christians like mullets.