Killzone 2 has an amazing engine

[WrikaWrek]

How it combines the lightning and special effects with the destruction, to bring the whole war feel is really awesome. Infinity Ward has quite a challenge in its hands now, to meet the benchmark set by Kz2, the weakest element are definitely the character models.

However, for a game that spent 4 years in development, the scripting, story, set pieces, and overall creativity of the challenge is strikingly average.

I wish this engine could be licensed, looks better than Cryshit on consoles.

[Eel O'Brian]

did you play modern warfare?

then you have probably already played modern warfare 2

[The Fake Shemp]

CoD > KZ2

[MCD]

Infinity Ward has quite a challenge in its hands now, to meet the benchmark set by Kz2

just why do you think IW gives a shit?

[Beezy]

Infinity Ward has quite a challenge in its hands now, to meet the benchmark set by Kz2

just why do you think IW gives a shit?

Exactly. Modern Warfare 2 will sell millions just like the first did as long as IW makes the online multiplayer on par or better than their last game.

[cool breeze]

the only thing nice graphically about CoD4 and WaW is the frame rate.  The games don't really look great past the smoothness of it all.

[TakingBackSunday]

I played the Killzone 2 demo yesterday, and holy fuck it looked amazing, but that's as far as it went.  Game was clunky as a motherfucker.

[dark1x]

the only thing nice graphically about CoD4 and WaW is the frame rate.  The games don't really look great past the smoothness of it all.

Disagree.  I much prefer what they did with Killzone 2.  If they had been able to maintain a rock solid 60 fps on consoles, that would have been great, but they didn't.  There were tons of drops.  KZ2, on the other hand, combined a very solid 30 fps with fantastic motion blur to create a much more appealing look in motion.  60 fps is only good if you can hold it 95% of the time.

[duckman2000]

I don't mind the visuals of COD4, but I really hope they rework the A.I. and implement a hit response system. I don't want it to be too much like KZ2, but there are some things that are in dire need of being replaced and updated.

[TakingBackSunday]

Game was clunky as a motherfucker.

ya. what a painful 45 seconds that demo was 

No shit.  The cover system was kind of cool, but the aiming was horrendous, and no messing around with the sensitivity helped it.  And that jump, wtf.

[duckman2000]

Should be more gun-on-a-stick and magnetic reticles, amirite? 

[Don Flamenco]

How it combines the lightning and special effects with the destruction, to bring the whole war feel is really awesome. Infinity Ward has quite a challenge in its hands now, to meet the benchmark set by Kz2, the weakest element are definitely the character models.

However, for a game that spent 4 years in development, the scripting, story, set pieces, and overall creativity of the challenge is strikingly average.

I wish this engine could be licensed, looks better than Cryshit on consoles.

LOLNOLOLNOLOLNOLOLNOLOLNO

[cool breeze]

the only thing nice graphically about CoD4 and WaW is the frame rate.  The games don't really look great past the smoothness of it all.

Disagree.  I much prefer what they did with Killzone 2.  If they had been able to maintain a rock solid 60 fps on consoles, that would have been great, but they didn't.  There were tons of drops.  KZ2, on the other hand, combined a very solid 30 fps with fantastic motion blur to create a much more appealing look in motion.  60 fps is only good if you can hold it 95% of the time.

actually, you're kind of agreeing with me.  I'm saying the only nice thing about CoD4s graphics was the smooth frame rate.  Killzone 2 looks way better.

[Beezy]

No, dark is saying that CoD4 didn't have a smooth frame rate either because it couldn't "maintain a rock solid 60 fps".

[cool breeze]

my mistake.  Though, I never really noticed the drops in multiplayer.

[fistfulofmetal]

COD4 looks really great on the PC. It looks like butt on consoles though.

[duckman2000]

COD4 looks really great on the PC. It looks like butt on consoles though.

Eh, it really doesn't look that much better. There's a strict limitation on how good the game can look, and the ceiling isn't that much higher than what you find in the console versions.

[cool breeze]

I played CoD4 on 360 and PC and it isn't a huge leap.  If you want a big difference in graphical quality, play Far Cry 2.

[Beezy]

my mistake.  Though, I never really noticed the drops in multiplayer.

me either

[Don Flamenco]

I only hit a few drops in single player at times that didn't matter.

[duckman2000]

From what I've played of the 360 version, the game looks weird. There's a lot of bloom, and the framerate seems to be all over the place. Although I'm not sure if the latter is because of the weird bloom.

[Don Flamenco]

From what I've played of the 360 version, the game looks weird. There's a lot of bloom, and the framerate seems to be all over the place. Although I'm not sure if the latter is because of the weird bloom.

cod4?   

i don't remember much bloom in that.

[pilonv1]

http://cmpmedia.vo.llnwd.net/o1/vault/gdc09/slides/GDC2009-vdLeeuw-KZ2SPUsCaseStudy.pdf - warning it's 57mb

Summarised from another forum.

The post processing effects use a quarter res sample of the framebuffer which is transferred to the SPUs.

So motion blurring and depth of field blurring use a lower res source.

Not that matters - it still looks incredible.

[brawndolicious]

Lost Planet did something similar.  The particle effects (which were obviously a huge part of that game's graphics) were rendered at 1/4 the resolution since your eyes can't detect the drop in detail for animated smoke, fire, etc effects.  It worked really well in that game and I'm guessing also in KZ2 so hopefully other developers use that method for particles and blurring.

[dark1x]

COD4 looks really great on the PC. It looks like butt on consoles though.

Err, no.  I can play CoD4 and 5 on my PC at 1080p with a rock solid 60 fps and, while it does look better, the difference is actually pretty minimal.  The framerate is a nice improvement, but everything else looks and feels roughly the same.

I played CoD4 on 360 and PC and it isn't a huge leap.  If you want a big difference in graphical quality, play Far Cry 2.

FC2 definitely benefits much more from high resolutions.  1080p FC2 with AA and AF cranked is a sight to behold on the PC in that the image quality is flawless.  They were even kind enough to include a framerate limiter so that I can maintain a rock solid 30 fps with the highest settings and really high AA and AF (it's tough to hold 60 fps at that resolution with max details).

I only hit a few drops in single player at times that didn't matter.

You may have only noticed that, but the framerate drops constantly.  The trick?  It mostly drops once the action picks up and, as a result, the average gamer doesn't notice it.  It really stands out to me, though.  It doesn't ruin the playability, but it does damage the presentation.

[WrikaWrek]

Game sucks dick. Playing on hard mode, there's this thing in level 2 or 3, where i have to defend this position, and they have dudes coming in by trucks, and aircraft, and i kill like 30 guys, but they keep coming, and then the dudes in my team are dip shits and they are all down, i mean, what?

F this game. I'll get back to it next month.

[duckman2000]

From what I've played of the 360 version, the game looks weird. There's a lot of bloom, and the framerate seems to be all over the place. Although I'm not sure if the latter is because of the weird bloom.

cod4?   

i don't remember much bloom in that.

I don't remember hearing about it, so I was a bit surprised to see it. Generally, the game looks muddy, which was never the case with the PC or the PS3 versions. That's why I'm wondering if there is post processing switch or something. Although, the 360 controller is so shit for this particular game that I might not even bother with this version.

FC2 definitely benefits much more from high resolutions.  1080p FC2 with AA and AF cranked is a sight to behold on the PC in that the image quality is flawless.  They were even kind enough to include a framerate limiter so that I can maintain a rock solid 30 fps with the highest settings and really high AA and AF (it's tough to hold 60 fps at that resolution with max details).

Now if only there were PC versions of all upcoming games. I'm looking forward to MAG, hopefully it's every bit as awesome as it sounds, but I really wish it was a PC title instead.

[duckman2000]

There is no such encounter in the game. Sounds like it could be a greatly exaggerated and wrika-stupid description of the Visari Square bit, which was a weird and annoying sequence. I really don't think it was too bright of Guerrilla to have the characters echo my complaints.

[WrikaWrek]

Game sucks dick. Playing on hard mode, there's this thing in level 2 or 3, where i have to defend this position, and they have dudes coming in by trucks, and aircraft, and i kill like 30 guys, but they keep coming, and then the dudes in my team are dip shits and they are all down, i mean, what?

just so we are clear, we are talking about COD or KZ2 here?

spoiler (click to show/hide)

     

[close]

I see what you did there  

KZ2.

And yes it's the Visari Square Sequences. Which is exactly how i described it on an harder mode. Tons of guys coming in, you have the sniper up top, the higher caliber machine gun in the "bunker", you have like 4 team mates who aren't worth shit, and they all die, and then you are left alone fighting a bunch of Jin Ron assassins.

[duckman2000]

I played through it on Veteran, and while frustrating and poorly designed, it's nothing like you described it. There are far too many waves of enemies, to the point where it becomes a bit boring, but the waves themselves are minimal. The worst they bring in are heavies, and those are stupidly easy. Keeping one or two of your team mates alive helps. And I don't recall any waves being dropped in by air.

[WrikaWrek]

Well maybe your memory ain't so sharp old man.

Waves of 20 guys, there's one of the waves that comes by a truck, and on of them has the dudes dropping in an aircraft, through the ropes.

I played that thing like 2 hours ago dude. And yes my team mates do drop like flies.

[duckman2000]

So keep them alive, then. It takes a second to revive them. I absolutely agree that it's a dodgy sequence, but it's not that hard. For one, keeping your team mates alive gives the Helghast someone else to shoot at while you dispose of the heavies and stray grunts. You can use the MG, but that's borderline cheating.

[Bebpo]

Game sucks dick. Playing on hard mode, there's this thing in level 2 or 3, where i have to defend this position, and they have dudes coming in by trucks, and aircraft, and i kill like 30 guys, but they keep coming, and then the dudes in my team are dip shits and they are all down, i mean, what?

F this game. I'll get back to it next month.

Don't play it on hard mode.  Normal is tough enough at points >_<

[WrikaWrek]

So keep them alive, then. It takes a second to revive them. I absolutely agree that it's a dodgy sequence, but it's not that hard. For one, keeping your team mates alive gives the Helghast someone else to shoot at while you dispose of the heavies and stray grunts. You can use the MG, but that's borderline cheating.

Gonna be real with you and admit i've been pretty shit at games lately. Aside from Pro Evo, damn i still kick ass, even when i don't play it for like a year, goddamn. I'm the bruce lee of Pro Evo!

[duckman2000]

Tsk. Technical shitness is simply an opportunity to prevail through tactics.

[duckman2000]

That's probably why I liked COD4 MP as much as I did. Not that I'm very good at it (absolutely disastrous with the wrong controller, even), but any game that offers you a fighting chance if you're good at devising traps and predicting enemy movement is alright with me. I won't ever win a battle of quick aim, and having my equilibrium fucked with hasn't helped.

[drew]

cod>kz2

[rubber feathers]

Wait, people are really saying CoD4 looks like crap?  It's not a looker in the MP, but most of the single player levels looked really good for a game in 2007.  It's not Crysis or Uncharted or Gears, but it looked great.  This runs at a solid 60fps, and keep in mind this was released in June '07.  Of course its flaws are more apparent two years later, but it doesn't look mediocre at all or anything.

The framerate only dropped a few times in the SP, too, and it's literally rock solid in the MP.  If you're having framerate problems in multiplayer (at least on 360), your system is messed up.

It's not like KZ2 is perfect either, it has some framerate dips even at 30fps.

[duckman2000]

I think COD4 looks good enough, with some glaring flaws countered by various strengths. I think I'm honestly just past the ultra-super graphics bit these days. I haven't played a game in a long time that was prohibitively ugly, so I'm alright. There are other things they need to update, though.

[duckman2000]

I'd have to go back and see COD4 again, i remember it looking pretty good (?)

What were the glaring flaws , Duck?

Foliage is terrible, as are many of the ground and other textures. Lighting is good at some points, but terrible at others. No real reaction when shooting enemies, instead going for canned death animation, which goes for a lot of the effects in the game. Rain is some of the shittiest around, and the game world is generally visually static. But I can't say any of that impacted my enjoyment of the game while playing*, with the one exception being this crummy bloom I'm experiencing now. There were enough strengths to make up for the flaws; for example, the shitty grass in the All Ghillied Up level was forgiven given the overall good looks of most other things in that level. It looked good enough.

*That is not to say I haven't ripped on the game for it, but hey, that's what we do.

[cool breeze]

Wait, people are really saying CoD4 looks like crap?  It's not a looker in the MP, but most of the single player levels looked really good for a game in 2007.  It's not Crysis or Uncharted or Gears, but it looked great.  This runs at a solid 60fps, and keep in mind this was released in June '07.  Of course its flaws are more apparent two years later, but it doesn't look mediocre at all or anything.

The framerate only dropped a few times in the SP, too, and it's literally rock solid in the MP.  If you're having framerate problems in multiplayer (at least on 360), your system is messed up.

It's not like KZ2 is perfect either, it has some framerate dips even at 30fps.

CoD4 doesn't look like crap, but it doesn't really look great.  It's like you say, it's not Crysis, Uncharted, Gears, Bioshock, STALKER, Assassin's Creed, GRAW, R6 Vegas or other good looking games.  Even when it came out it wasn't really impressive or anything.  The reason I bring it up is because the thread is about how IW has to step up their game when their last game wasn't some amazing looking game.  And in the time since CoD4 came out, there are even more games that look much better.

[duckman2000]

Even when it came out it wasn't really impressive or anything

huh? i think i'm going nuts, i seem to remember people going crazy for Cod4 looks wise.
Especially the opening sequence when it was first shown.

I think a lot of people were impressed thematically, and then went on benders arguing for some technical excellence that wasn't there in order to justify/explain this fascination with the theme. IW is no doubt very skilled at design on a thematic level, but COD4 was quite weak in many ways at the time it was released. Take that much hyped All Ghillied Up E3 demonstration. Even in that demonstration, you could see how god awful the grass was, but it was cleverly neutered beforehand by the admittedly cool hiding in plain sight effect of the immediate opening.

On a related note, I hope they improve the sound. I don't care if it's realistic or not, the guns sound lame.

[cool breeze]

Even when it came out it wasn't really impressive or anything

huh? i think i'm going nuts, i seem to remember people going crazy for Cod4 looks wise.
Especially the opening sequence when it was first shown.

And in the time since CoD4 came out, there are even more games that look much better

same for every game though, thus is the advancement of time. KZ2 sat on the top of the perch for consoles for , what? , 2 weeks?
And i'm sure RE5 will be replaced soon enough.

Also, not sure if everyone has tried it, but the "Behind the bullet" demo thing for KZ2 is worth looking at.

yeah, people were praising CoD4 when it came out and I was always a bit confused by it.  Like, I remember specially during the Microsoft E3 press conference when they showed off a level and everyone was going crazy about it and it just didn't really look as amazing as they would make it out to be.

and I'm saying that CoD4 wasn't really among the great looking games when it was released and more impressive games released later on never got the same attention that it did.  It was just bizarre to me.

I did check out that behind the bullet thing and it was kinda cool I guess.  The interesting part was how they explained the tricks they did to make the engine seem more powerful than it was, like faking water reflections and having nothing appear behind the immediate scene (which is why you can pan 360 around the scene)

[duckman2000]

Next time you play the ship level/map, try looking up at the rain. Weirdest rain ever.

[WrikaWrek]

Greatest thing about COD4 is how good it looked for the speed it moved at, and for the action set pieces it had. The final Car Chase sequence, is pure orgasm. Sure it's scripted and whatever, but it was amazing.

I could only wish other games attempted at having such amazing sequences. Oh well.

[duckman2000]

It's just a shame that sequence has been in every one of their COD games

[demi]

It's just a shame that sequence has been in every one of their COD games

who is "their" - i dont recall a car chase level in COD5

or even 3

and 2

[duckman2000]

Infinity Ward. And I'm pretty sure there was a car chase scene in COD2, although that could have been the marginally different one. Still, you're a passenger in a car and it's going fast through enemies.

[fistfulofmetal]

Nope. The last time there was a car chase was in COD1. GG.

[maxy]

IW has nothing to fear,just look at latest UK Charts,huge legs,66 weeks on all-format charts.
As for the teh graphicz,its 60fps so COD4,MW2>rest of the pack


1                WII FIT     WII     
2                RESIDENT EVIL 5    XB360   
3                PROFESSOR LAYTON AND THE CURIOUS VILLAGE    DS   
4                GRAND THEFT AUTO: CHINATOWN WARS    DS   
5                MARIO KART WII    WII    NINTENDO   
6                RESIDENT EVIL 5    PS3    CAPCOM   
7                DR KAWASHIMA'S BRAIN TRAINING    DS   
8                WII PLAY    WII   
9                WHEELMAN    XB360   
10              MY FITNESS COACH    WII   
11              CALL OF DUTY 4: MODERN WARFARE    XB360       
12              STREET FIGHTER IV    PS3    CAPCOM   
13              CLUB PENGUIN: ELITE PENGUIN FORCE    DS   
14              KILLZONE 2    PS3   
15              MARIO & SONIC AT THE OLYMPIC GAMES    WII 


Imagine the surge of fanboys when MW2 is released...scary
IW will 
The rest will  :'( 

[CHOW CHOW]

same for every game though, thus is the advancement of time. KZ2 sat on the top of the perch for consoles for , what? , 2 weeks?
And i'm sure RE5 will be replaced soon enough.

You are one sad motherfucker... the subtlety of your trolling knows no bounds.  I'm playing through RE5 as we speak and there's no way any objective-minded individual could think this game tops Killzone 2 graphically. Not gonna respond to your reply if you make one...just not worth the time.

[WrikaWrek]

Another bitch outburst from Chow Chow.

[dark1x]

same for every game though, thus is the advancement of time. KZ2 sat on the top of the perch for consoles for , what? , 2 weeks?
And i'm sure RE5 will be replaced soon enough.

You are one sad motherfucker... the subtlety of your trolling knows no bounds.  I'm playing through RE5 as we speak and there's no way any objective-minded individual could think this game tops Killzone 2 graphically. Not gonna respond to your reply if you make one...just not worth the time.

I hope you realize that such outbursts are responsible for much of the negativity surrounding this game.  I'm positive that people are being harder on the game simply to counter posts like yours.  That sort of attitude immediately results in a defensive response.  Do you really think you can convince someone to change their opinions by insulting them?  Of course not.  It simply ends up escalating on both sides and certain titles get unfairly drug through the mud.

[Van Cruncheon]

same for every game though, thus is the advancement of time. KZ2 sat on the top of the perch for consoles for , what? , 2 weeks?
And i'm sure RE5 will be replaced soon enough.

You are one sad motherfucker... the subtlety of your trolling knows no bounds.  I'm playing through RE5 as we speak and there's no way any objective-minded individual could think this game tops Killzone 2 graphically. Not gonna respond to your reply if you make one...just not worth the time.

someone get this dude his inhaler

[Eel O'Brian]

i don't even want to play it now

[duckman2000]

Nope. The last time there was a car chase was in COD1. GG.

Yeah, my bad, it was an armored car sequence

[Andowsky]

Call of Duty 4 looks great and has a great framerate.

Killzone 2 looks great and has a decent framerate.

Call of Duty 4 obliterates KZ2 in gameplay.

Call of Duty 4 wins.

[Bebpo]

Man, why can't we all just get along

[brawndolicious]

The armored car sequence in COD2 was a lot slower than the final section of COD4.  Also, it was just a turret section so it was kind of boring.  COD3 did have a section where you pointed out targets to the tank that you were riding on.  COD:WAW also let you ride on the side of the tank if you wanted but that was kind of suicidal.  The only proper "shooting enemies while being chased in a car" sequence in any COD game that I remember is in COD1 and 4.

As for graphics, today a lot of parts of COD4 still look good technically.  The transition animations are among the best or maybe even the best in any game.  The night-vision and lighting effects just feel spot-on.  And the hiding in the grass thing still does work well in the multiplayer.  However, the grass blades are pixely if your prone and focusing on them but that's kind of forgivable since no FPS with large grass environments has really gotten more detailed than that.

The fact that it runs at 60 fps most of the time is probably the biggest reason that it's aged so well though.  Maybe the blur effects in games like KZ2 and Lost Planet can make it look the same but you definitely feel the difference when actually playing the game.

[MMaRsu]

Its a great and very awesome engine, graphically unmatched by any console game.

However when I was playing it I always felt like a dwarf. I mean if you stand next to a friend of yours, your face is around the height of his shoulderrs! Wtf is that about