EB Conservative concentration camp thread of conservatives must stay in here.

[Ganhyun]

This is a thread for Conservatives. I'd like to start the thread by discussing where the Republican party should go as its obvious a change is needed.



Here is a snapshot of a Glenn Beck poll.





I myself agree with going to a more Libertarian style of conservatism somewhat.

[AdmiralViscen]

Does this mean you'll stop spamming smokescreen topics? cool

[Mupepe]

I'm conservative and...

Fuck libertarianism.  It's great if we all live in a perfect society.  Oh what the fuck am I saying?  Even then it's not.

Sarah Palin is a twit.

Mike Huckabee is a loon and fuck big government

Minimalist Government FTW!

Glenn Beck is a tool as well.

[Brehvolution]

shitbin

[ShogunOfFear]

I'm conservative and...

Fuck libertarianism.  It's great if we all live in a perfect society.  Oh what the fuck am I saying?  Even then it's not.

Sarah Palin is a twit.

Mike Huckabee is a loon and fuck big government

Minimalist Government FTW!

Glenn Beck is a tool as well.

May I ask what type of conservatism you support?  Just curious.

[Ganhyun]

TheBlackStallion is hysterical

Go make your own thread just for Liberals.

Does this mean you'll stop spamming smokescreen topics? cool

Go join him.

[Powerslave]

Fuck politics and fuck political threads and fuck the people who post in them.

[Powerslave]

You can see Cheebs coming miles ahead. Whenever there's a shitty political thread on the internet, he jumps on it like the little taco he is.

[Ganhyun]

Fuck politics and fuck political threads and fuck the people who post in them.

So basically your telling yourself to fuck yourself? 

[Tauntaun]

Fuck politics and fuck political threads and fuck the people who post in them.

So basically your telling yourself to fuck yourself? 

[Powerslave]

I saw that one coming while I was typing that post. And guess who the owner of that shitpost is? The creator of the shitthread.

[AdmiralViscen]

TheBlackStallion is hysterical

Go make your own thread just for Liberals.

Does this mean you'll stop spamming smokescreen topics? cool

Go join him.

Who said I'm a liberal? There is currently zero credibility to be found in the Republican party or 'conservative movement' so I vote Democrat for now.

[ShogunOfFear]

TheBlackStallion is hysterical

Go make your own thread just for Liberals.

Does this mean you'll stop spamming smokescreen topics? cool

Go join him.

Who said I'm a liberal? There is currently zero credibility to be found in the Republican party or 'conservative movement' so I vote Democrat for now.

Can you read?  "I'd like to start the thread by discussing where the Republican party should go as its obvious a change is needed."

No one cares what you are.  Did you come here to discuss or troll?

[Ganhyun]

I saw that one coming while I was typing that post. And guess who the owner of that shitpost is? The creator of the shitthread.

So if you hate political threads, then don't read/post in them. Simple enough.

[Mupepe]

May I ask what type of conservatism you support?  Just curious.

Fiscal conservative mostly.  I think paying off the national debt and minimalizing government should be top priority (in most cases).  I do believe in a hands off approach for private life and businesses with exceptions (the current economic mess being one).  However, I don't really find many mainstream GOP leaders with it as an actual top priority and the few that do usually have other nutjob ideas (Ron Paul and his gold standard).

If Michael Savage wasn't such a nutjob regarding foreign policy in general, I'd probably be in line with him.

[Ganhyun]

Can you read?  "I'd like to start the thread by discussing where the Republican party should go as its obvious a change is needed.

No one cares what you are.  Did you come here to discuss or troll?

Its admiralviscen, so its most likely to troll

[Powerslave]

I saw that one coming while I was typing that post. And guess who the owner of that shitpost is? The creator of the shitthread.

So if you hate political threads, then don't read/post in them. Simple enough.

how about you log off and never return again? Simple enough.

[Ganhyun]

May I ask what type of conservatism you support?  Just curious.

Fiscal conservative mostly.  I think paying off the national debt and minimalizing government should be top priority (in most cases).  I do believe in a hands off approach for private life and businesses with exceptions (the current economic mess being one).  However, I don't really find many mainstream GOP leaders with it as an actual top priority and the few that do usually have other nutjob ideas (Ron Paul and his gold standard).

If Michael Savage wasn't such a nutjob regarding foreign policy in general, I'd probably be in line with him.

If we could actually payoff the national debt, that would be wonderful.

[Ganhyun]

I saw that one coming while I was typing that post. And guess who the owner of that shitpost is? The creator of the shitthread.

So if you hate political threads, then don't read/post in them. Simple enough.

how about you log off and never return again? Simple enough.

Nah, I'm not the one who has a problem with threads, yet still reads/posts in them.

[Powerslave]

how about you kill yourself?

[AdmiralViscen]

TheBlackStallion is hysterical

Go make your own thread just for Liberals.

Does this mean you'll stop spamming smokescreen topics? cool

Go join him.

Who said I'm a liberal? There is currently zero credibility to be found in the Republican party or 'conservative movement' so I vote Democrat for now.

Can you read?  "I'd like to start the thread by discussing where the Republican party should go as its obvious a change is needed."

No one cares what you are.  Did you come here to discuss or troll?

Uh it appears that Ganhyun cares what I am, he tried to eject me from the thread.

The poll in the first thread shows no credible ideas and it's sourced from this country's most embarrassing public figure. It's exactly the reason I don't lean Republican anymore - there's nothing to put in this thread except NBC conspiracy theories and videos of people dumping gasoline on their guests.

I guess If I had to pick a reasonable conservative, that leaves McCain's daughter? Everyone who disagrees with her should be purged from the party. Does that help?

[Ganhyun]

You know, I love you Powerslave, but not that much

[ShogunOfFear]

May I ask what type of conservatism you support?  Just curious.

Fiscal conservative mostly.  I think paying off the national debt and minimalizing government should be top priority (in most cases).  I do believe in a hands off approach for private life and businesses with exceptions (the current economic mess being one).  However, I don't really find many mainstream GOP leaders with it as an actual top priority and the few that do usually have other nutjob ideas (Ron Paul and his gold standard).

If Michael Savage wasn't such a nutjob regarding foreign policy in general, I'd probably be in line with him.

That's spot on with me mostly.  Socially I'm not for judging anyone.  Everyone's private life/home life is their own.  I agree with Ron Paul on some issues though such as shutting down the military bases over seas.  We're wasting far too much on the empire protecting nations that should be protecting themselves.

[Ganhyun]

Uh it appears that Ganhyun cares what I am, he tried to eject me from the thread.

The poll in the first thread shows no credible ideas and it's sourced from this country's most embarrassing public figure. It's exactly the reason I don't lean Republican anymore - there's nothing to put in this thread except NBC conspiracy theories and videos of people dumping gasoline on their guests.

So, since you have no ideas or recommendations on how to improve the party, why post at all?

Edit: Oh, stealth edit. She seems to be reasonable at times. Although I doubt she'd actually claim to be Republican if her father hadn't run for President.

[Cheebs]

All I have to say is watching the complete failure and collapse of the GOP in which they have no ideas other than screaming "NO!", no idea where to go and no real leader in this Obama era is highly entertaining.

[AdmiralViscen]

You said that this topic was for conservatives. As a former Republican-leaning individual and someone sympathetic to some ethereal notion of conservatism, it seemed like it was for me!

Then you posted a poll with Paul, Palin, and Huckabee and reminded me that there is really nothing modern or substantive or realistic that could be in this thread. I can't think of a high profile Republican that doesn't support at least 30% batshit crazy or hypocritical policies.

[Eric P]

i'd like to see the conservatives divorce themselves from the moral right so that we could begin to try to have more honest conversations about the needs of people

[Ganhyun]

All I have to say is watching the complete failure and collapse of the GOP in which they have no ideas other than screaming "NO!", no idea where to go and no real leader in this Obama era is highly entertaining.

Yes yes, we know thats how all Liberals feel. This thread is for Conservatives to discuss what path the party needs to take.

[ShogunOfFear]

I guess If I had to pick a reasonable conservative, that leaves McCain's daughter? Everyone who disagrees with her should be purged from the party. Does that help?

McCain's daughter is a tool riding the waves of the liberal media simply because she bashes conservatives.  And I agree with her socially, but I've heard her say nothing credible fiscally.  

[Eric P]

I guess If I had to pick a reasonable conservative, that leaves McCain's daughter? Everyone who disagrees with her should be purged from the party. Does that help?

McCain's daughter is a tool riding the waves of the liberal media simply because she bashes conservatives.  And I agree with her socially, but I've heard her say nothing credible fiscally.  

there is also christopher buckley

[Ganhyun]

You said that this topic was for conservatives. As a former Republican-leaning individual and someone sympathetic to some ethereal notion of conservatism, it seemed like it was for me!

Then you posted a poll with Paul, Palin, and Huckabee and reminded me that there is really nothing modern or substantive or realistic that could be in this thread. I can't think of a high profile Republican that doesn't support at least 30% batshit crazy or hypocritical policies.

The poll was pulled from Glenn Beck's site (yes, I know most of Liberal EB hates him now) and those were the options he gave. Honestly, while I support some of Ron Paul's ideas (Close overseas bases for one) I don't agree with all of them (Gold Standard)

[Mupepe]

May I ask what type of conservatism you support?  Just curious.

Fiscal conservative mostly.  I think paying off the national debt and minimalizing government should be top priority (in most cases).  I do believe in a hands off approach for private life and businesses with exceptions (the current economic mess being one).  However, I don't really find many mainstream GOP leaders with it as an actual top priority and the few that do usually have other nutjob ideas (Ron Paul and his gold standard).

If Michael Savage wasn't such a nutjob regarding foreign policy in general, I'd probably be in line with him.

That's spot on with me mostly.  Socially I'm not for judging anyone.  Everyone's private life/home life is their own.  I agree with Ron Paul on some issues though such as shutting down the military bases over seas.  We're wasting far too much on the empire protecting nations that should be protecting themselves.

Completely agreed.

[AdmiralViscen]

She's not an elected official, obviously she doesn't have a full platform of things to discuss. But at least she is a nominal Republican who is willing to throw away people like Cheney and Rove and get rid of the hatemongering. In a political party like the one we're discussing, that's a shining beacon.


Here's a nice article:

The Five Strands of Conservatism: Why the GOP is Unraveling

In one sense, it isn't hard to see why the Republican Party seems to be coming apart at the seams. When you get caught gutting the regulations that had kept us for 70 years from another stock market crash like the crash of 1929 and another collapse of the banking system like the one that occurred during the Great Depression, and when your policies throw millions of people out of their homes, jobs, retirement, and doctors' offices, the next bottle of elixir you sell is not likely to fly off the shelf, especially if it's the same whine in a new deCantor.

But at a deeper level, the modern conservative movement, which eventually came to define the GOP (to its benefit for many years), was built on an ideological foundation--and a coalition--that was fundamentally incoherent. It took a charismatic leader to bring it together (Ronald Reagan), a tacit agreement among its coalition partners to give each other what they wanted, and a message machine to start selling the idea that that there was coherence to a conservative "philosophy" that was anything but coherent.

Modern conservatism wove together five discrete strands and interest groups that couldn't coexist. What is remarkable is how well it held together despite the fact that those strands were actually difficult to interweave.

The first strand is libertarian conservatism, reflected in leaders from Barry Goldwater to Ron Paul. Libertarian conservatives believe government should be small and weak and kept that way through low taxes. From their point of view, the primary role of government is to police the streets, protect private property, and protect the country from external threats (although at times they can get a little histrionic about internal threats as well).

The second strand, with which libertarianism is entirely incompatible, is social conservatism, particularly Christian fundamentalism. Fundamentalists of any sort believe that they have privileged knowledge of God's Will and hence have the right to use whatever methods available--including the instruments of state--to impose that will on others. It is one thing to believe, as many democratic (and increasingly Democratic) evangelical Christians and conservative Catholics do, that life begins at conception. It is another to believe that because you believe that, you have the right to impose your interpretation of the books you consider holy on others who may not share your faith or your interpretation of Scripture. The fundamentalist politics practiced by the likes of Falwell, Robertson, and Dobson over the last 30 years should have been anathema to genuine libertarians, because they run against everything libertarian conservatives believe in vis-ŕ-vis intrusive government. However, the two groups lived happily together as long as libertarians got to keep their taxes low and their rifles loaded and fundamentalists got to keep their kids from learning anything about birth control (leading the Bible Belt to have the highest rates of teen pregnancy and abortion anywhere in the country, although Sarah Palin seems to be leading a one-family crusade to recapture for Alaska the title of Miss Teen Pregnancy).

The third strand of conservatism is old fashioned fiscal conservatism--the kind that once led Bob Dole to garner his party's nomination for president but would make him unwelcome in the contemporary GOP. Fiscal conservatives are essentially soft New Dealers, who accept the premises of the New Deal--that we need a safety net, that when people lose their jobs because of economic downturns they shouldn't lose their homes, that people deserve some minimal degree of dignity in old age if they worked hard for 40 years--but prefer the safety net and tax codes to be thin. Fiscal conservatism bears no logical relation to social conservatism, and although it bears a superficial resemblance to libertarian conservatism, the two are fundamentally at odds, with one accepting the premises of the New Deal and the other rejecting them.

The fourth strand, national security conservatism, is a different breed. National security conservatives tend to be hawkish (although they have a curious habit of evading military service when it comes their turn), and they are generally quick to accuse others of being soft on the threat du jour (unless the other side happens to be in an interventionist mood, in which case they often morph into isolationists just for sport, as when George W. Bush attacked Clinton and Gore for "nation building" and then went on a six year binge of it). The militarism of national security conservatism is as far at odds from evangelical Christianity (and hence social conservatism) as it could be, given that Jesus preached most about the evils of war, poverty, and public expressions of piety, but somehow Christian social conservatives have found a way to rationalize militarism (not to mention ignore the plight of the poor or blame them for their poverty and build crystal cathedrals). Indeed, fundamentalist Christians were the strongest supporters of the Iraq War of any demographic group other than the Bush and Cheney families.

The final strand of conservatism is the one Nixon exploited with his Southern Strategy and the Republicans have exploited ever since, whether the issue is voting rights, "welfare queens," affirmative action, or the fate of "illegals": prejudice, whether conscious (as when Reagan and Nixon used, let's say, "colorful" terms, to describe those on welfare) or unconscious (as when Bob Corker ran a race against Harold Ford, a black Congressman from Tennessee, asking, "Who's the real Tennessean?", when what he was really activating in the back of voters' minds was, "he's not really one of 'us,' now is he"?). Given that most white Americans no longer see themselves or want to see themselves as racist, and that they actually consciously eschew racist sentiments and actions such as overt discrimination against people because of the color of their skin, emotional appeals to this segment of the conservative population tend to be strongest when a conscious "text" with some merit (e.g., we can't simply open the floodgates to all who would want to enter the United States and become citizens) is superimposed on the unconscious "subtext" of prejudice (the people flooding in happen to have dark skin). Although it's easy to localize this strand of conservatism as Southern, given that the GOP has become a regional party, it is important to note that had the Presidential election only included white voters (the Republicans' fantasy), McCain would have won in a 63-37 landslide over Barack Obama. But conservatives don't have much on their side on this one either, except to the extent that they can block the vote, because demographics are running in the wrong direction for them over the next 50 years.

I would never underestimate the ability of the right to find a way to stitch something back together, for two reasons. First, they're good at it. They're short on ideas, but they're long on selling ideas, however vapid. Second, Democrats are exactly the opposite: They're long on ideas but short on the ability to bundle them into coherent, emotionally compelling narratives that make people want to buy them--except when the GOP is so corrupt, inept, and/or bankrupt (or causing bankruptcy) that even moderate Republicans jump ship.

The reality is that it's going to be difficult to put Humpty Dumpty back together again, and it's going to take someone with vision and charisma to figure out which aspects of conservatism to bring back into the center and which to catapult without losing a base that is now seriously out of step with mainstream America. I don't see that leader in Bobby "let me tell you a story about my dad and how in America, anything is possible" Jindal, Tim "let me tell you a story before you fall asleep and I have to certify Al Franken" Pawlenty, and Sarah "let me tell a lot of stories and hope no one checks the facts" Palin.

Faux tea parties aren't going to get them there, either (and if you ask me, they seem more than a little elite (tea?) and, well, gay (don't real men drink beer?) for a Party determined to "save the institution of marriage." But perhaps as they clink their porcelain cups in unison for high tea, they'll have an epiphany about how to replace their predictable and carping Constant Comments about taxes and deficits with a new blend. Perhaps they could borrow some green tea from the President.

Good luck getting Humpty Dumpty back together again. The Republican party needs a massive purge, but that involves dumping its base so it will not happen anytime soon.

[Cheebs]

All I have to say is watching the complete failure and collapse of the GOP in which they have no ideas other than screaming "NO!", no idea where to go and no real leader in this Obama era is highly entertaining.

Yes yes, we know thats how all Liberals feel. This thread is for Conservatives to discuss what path the party needs to take.

It isn't just how liberals feel. I bet if you did a poll amongst independents they'd agree the GOP has no ideas.

Whats the GOP plan on making sure every american has healthcare?

Whats the GOP plan on fighting global warming?

Whats the GOP plan on fixing our relations with world leaders who don't like us thanks to Bush?

Even McCain's own campaign manager says the GOP stands for nothing but "no" right now.

[Himu]

powerslave

[Ganhyun]

All I have to say is watching the complete failure and collapse of the GOP in which they have no ideas other than screaming "NO!", no idea where to go and no real leader in this Obama era is highly entertaining.

Yes yes, we know thats how all Liberals feel. This thread is for Conservatives to discuss what path the party needs to take.

It isn't just how liberals feel. I bet if you did a poll amongst independents they'd agree the GOP has no ideas.

Whats the GOP plan on making sure every american has healthcare?

Whats the GOP plan on fighting global warming?

Whats the GOP plan on fixing our relations with world leaders who don't like us thanks to Bush?

Even McCain's own campaign manager says the GOP stands for nothing but "no" right now.

I agree the GOP has basically no ideas except shouting NO right now. Thus why this thread was made

[Cheebs]

All I have to say is watching the complete failure and collapse of the GOP in which they have no ideas other than screaming "NO!", no idea where to go and no real leader in this Obama era is highly entertaining.

Yes yes, we know thats how all Liberals feel. This thread is for Conservatives to discuss what path the party needs to take.

It isn't just how liberals feel. I bet if you did a poll amongst independents they'd agree the GOP has no ideas.

Whats the GOP plan on making sure every american has healthcare?

Whats the GOP plan on fighting global warming?

Whats the GOP plan on fixing our relations with world leaders who don't like us thanks to Bush?

Even McCain's own campaign manager says the GOP stands for nothing but "no" right now.

I agree the GOP has basically no ideas except shouting NO right now. Thus why this thread was made

And hopefully they get real ideas. I doubt it will be in time to somehow take down Obama, he's way too beloved by the public, the fact much of the love is for superficial non-policy reasons makes that even harder to topple.

But in the end they will have to abandon their social issues eventually. It is a losing battle that is holding them back. They lost the abortion fight and are slowly but surely eventually losing the gay marriage one.

[Phoenix Dark]

Wow I guess Beck doesn't like Huckabee

[recursivelyenumerable]

I'm not a conservative, but I would like an opposition party that would call out corruption, waste, and ham-fisted broken regulations.  The problem is that the current Republicans are apparently incapable of distinguishing real waste from sins against their idiotic cultural prejudices, or from shit they just made up, so we get OMG SOMETHING CALLED VOLCANO MONITORING and OMG HIGH-SPEED RAIL FROM DISNEYLAND TO BUNNY RANCH and any real problems get lost in the noise (plus they probably often shy away from going after corruption because they're implicated in it too)

[Rman]

I'm not conservative, but the problem I see with the Republican party is a lack of real leadership.  The only reason the talking head get so much press is because actual elected officials have not shown any signs of leadership. 

For example, we're going through one the biggest financial crises in decades and the Congressional Republican leaderships just wants more tax cuts.  I don't mind them clamoring for cuts, but every major economist has mentioned that tax cuts alone are not going to get us out of this mess, even conservative economist.  The party has become the party of no.  I can understand honestly disagreeing with Obama's policies, but there has been a failure from the Republican leadership to articulate any cogent options, other than screaming for more tax cuts, which Americans aren't buying.  Some economist even believe the original stimulus package was too little.

Also the party has to give up their obsession with people's private lives, especially in the bedroom.  Interestingly the party that champions lax regulation on industry has been weighed down by a wing that is obsessed with telling women what to do with their bodies and preventing gays from marrying.

[Cheebs]

I'm not a conservative, but I would like an opposition party that would call out corruption, waste, and ham-fisted broken regulations.  The problem is that the current Republicans are apparently incapable of distinguishing real waste from sins against their idiotic cultural prejudices, or from shit they just made up, so we get OMG SOMETHING CALLED VOLCANO MONITORING and OMG HIGH-SPEED RAIL FROM DISNEYLAND TO BUNNY RANCH and any real problems get lost in the noise (plus they probably often shy away from going after corruption because they're implicated in it too)

To be fair the democrats in the Bush years weren't a good opposition party either. Instead of feigning outrage at every little thing the democrats in congress just stuck their head in the ground and waited till Iraq imploded badly enough that they swept into power in 2006 without really having to do anything. They were too scared shitless to go after Bush in the early years on much at all. The GOP's problem is ironically going in the complete other direction and going after on Obama on every little thing so the "important" stuff to challenge gets lost in the shuffle.

[recursivelyenumerable]

Yeah, the bit about not going after corruption all that hard because they were implicated applies to the Dems under Bush too.

[Phoenix Dark]

In other words you yearn for the return of Teddy Roosevelt republicans

me too  :'(

[Cheebs]

In other words you yearn for the return of Teddy Roosevelt republicans

me too  :'(

That would never happen. Teddy Roosevelt was a progressive who was obsessive about the environment (Congress had to put a restriction on how many places a president can name a national park because Teddy wouldn't stop making them).

[siamesedreamer]

1) Balanced budget bill/ammendment (after we get through this economic morass)
2) Entitlement reform (can start by repealing Medicare part D)
3) Full court press on the stimulus wastes (Tapper eluded to this yesterday)
4) Divorce themselves from the religious zealots

[Cheebs]

You sound like Joe Scarbourough

[Mupepe]

I work with a guy named Joe Scarborough.  I don't know his political views though.

[Himu]

I don't know if I'm conservative or liberal. I agree with some views of both. I'm middle of the road.

[brawndolicious]

Right now, the problem with the conservative movement is that they've had the Ron Paul, Sarah Palin, and Mike Huckabee style "conservatives" in bed together for decades and now each group wants to take t he party in a different direction now that it's imploding.  I agree with mupepe in that I'm a conservative that thinks the party needs to be more moderate.

Most of the choices in the OP's poll are politicians that want to make radical changes to the party that I don't agree with at all.  Right now though, it's going to implode and all of the libertarians and religious fundamentalists will make their separate parties.  Then, maybe a bunch of moderate conservatives could take charge and then maybe the party will regain credibility with the public as not being batshit insane.

[Oblivion]

For most of last year, after taking note of McCain and Palin, the only thought that kept going through my mind was "Fucking seriously? THIS is the best they could come up with?". The first thing the Right needs to do is start showing some goddamn competency.

[Barry Egan]

You can see Cheebs coming miles ahead. Whenever there's a shitty political thread on the internet, he jumps on it like the little distinguished effete fellow he is.

 

[Van Cruncheon]

I don't know if I'm conservative or liberal. I agree with some views of both. I'm middle of the road.

[Mandark]

1) Feigned outrage
2) Short-term memory loss
3) TAPPER TAPPER TAPPER TAPPER
4) Milf-hunting

Good a platform as any, I suppose.

[Himu]

I don't know if I'm conservative or liberal. I agree with some views of both. I'm middle of the road.

 

[Phoenix Dark]

Write it down: Himu's gonna announce he's bisexual this year

[Madrun Badrun]

Write it down: Himu's gonna announce he's bisexual this year

Ya but he'll say it like this
'I don't know if I'm gay or straight. I am attracted to some things of both. I'm the middle of the sandwich.'

[ToxicAdam]

Get out of our thread, malacious liberals!

[Mandark]

Get out of our thread, malacious liberals!

Get out of TA's account, Father Mike!

[Phoenix Dark]

Write it down: Himu's gonna announce he's bisexual this year

Ya but he'll say it like this
'I don't know if I'm gay or straight. I am attracted to some things of both. I'm the middle of the sandwich.'

 

[Ganhyun]

http://www.glennbeck.com/content/articles/article/196/24957/

So EB conservatives, a friend forwarded this article to me.  Glenn Beck was talking to a guest, Judge Andrew Napolitano, on his show.

GLENN:  You know, I have to tell you, the answer is to get away from the two-party system because they are both progressives.  Just progressive and progressive light.  But they're both progressives and they have been taking us down this road for over 100 years.

Judge: I heard your intro and I, of course, fully endorse it that the two‑party system is one version of big government versus another version of big government

Thats pretty much true these days.

GLENN:  You are exactly right.  So the constitutional amendment, and even if this doesn't work, because this is going to sound crazy to some people.  I don't think it is.  I think even if it doesn't go through, it is the push for it if there is a serious movement in the public to push for this, it threatens their very existence and they will have to move.  So explain it.

JUDGE NAPOLITANO:  If 2/3 of the states ask the congress to call a Constitutional Convention to consider the adoption of this amendment which I'll describe in a moment, as it gets closer and closer to the 2/3 necessary and congress would be required to call the convention, you'll see some reaction on the part of congress to attempt to placate the states that want to call this.  Now, the constitutional amendment is a simple one.  It simply abolishes the 16th amendment and states affirmatively that congress shall have no power to tax the personal incomes of individual persons.  If that were enacted, it would starve the federal government back into the original footprint that the founders intended for it.  But as it gets closer to enactment, congress will have to do something for fear that it might be enacted. 

That would definitely shrink the government. But I doubt it happens.

They also discussed Nullification.

JUDGE NAPOLITANO:  Let me tell you about another movement that's out there, Glenn, and this is something that was debated by the founders before and since the Civil War and it's called nullification.  It's where a state legislature says the federal law that says ABC ‑‑ and I'll give you a few examples ‑‑ shall not be recognized in this state.  Now, so far the nullification is in minor things.  Arizona and Indiana have nullified the federal law on Daylight Savings Time.  California, and New Jersey is about to do this, have nullified medical law on medical marijuana.  Montana, this afternoon the governor of sign into law a law nullifying the federal regulation of firearms that are built, sold and used exclusively within the State of Montana.

GLENN:  This is Montana?  I know that was happening in Texas.  That just happened in Montana?

JUDGE NAPOLITANO:  He is signing the law at 12:15 local time this afternoon in Montana and he's going to make a statement from an e‑mail I received from one of our Fox producers that if the Feds don't like this, Montana will consider secession.  Now, that's another entirely different issue which we can talk about the lawfulness and constitutionality of.  But Montana is really taking the lead on nullification.

GLENN:  This guy is a huge Democrat.

JUDGE NAPOLITANO:  He's a libertarian Democrat if you can believe that such an animal exists. 

A Libertarian Democrat?