Author Topic: What are you playing?  (Read 4500203 times)

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demi

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Re: What are you playing?
« Reply #22020 on: December 17, 2013, 04:03:41 PM »
Dragons Dogma > Souls

Fight me, Borys.
fat

Himu

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Re: What are you playing?
« Reply #22021 on: December 17, 2013, 04:04:36 PM »
I honestly don't understand why Dark Souls is so universally loved. It's like a competition for who can take the most abuse from bad design decisions and justify them with nostalgia for equally as awful old video games.

Off the top of my head, the negatives about the game are easy to list:

- Ridiculously bad camera
- Zero extrapolation (this one's been spun by people explaining that it doesn't handhold you, which is bullshit -- it's just lazy design)
- Often meaningless fight mechanics that bug the fuck out if you run right at an enemy
- Rules that change depending on whether you do something or an enemy does something -- e.g. every single enemy can swing a weapon through a wall but you can't, which is a big help when you're fighting in the frequent tight corridors
- Required level grinding that might as well ensure that only those with hundreds of hours to spare can progress
- Zero guidance (again spun by people explaining that it doesn't handhold you)

Worst of all, if you complain about any of them, because the game is even slightly difficult, you're accused of being bad at video games, which is the only reason I can imagine that so many reviewers gave it glowing scores in spite of buggy gameplay, an awful PC port and lazy writing.

Yup. Nailed it. I like the idea of Souls games more than I enjoy playing them.
« Last Edit: December 17, 2013, 04:07:17 PM by Formerly Known As Himuro »
IYKYK

Himu

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Re: What are you playing?
« Reply #22022 on: December 17, 2013, 04:07:51 PM »
Dragons Dogma > Souls

Fight me, Borys.

How so? My interest is piqued. I thought they weren't that similar?
IYKYK

fistfulofmetal

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Re: What are you playing?
« Reply #22023 on: December 17, 2013, 04:44:39 PM »

Exhibit A.


A few of the negatives you list show a lack of understanding over game mechanics and systems. Plus you're inclusion of "zero guidance" as a negative is completely subjective.

Claiming the game requires grinding is the biggest issue. Dark Souls is the kind of game that has the option of grinding if you really want to but by no means requires it. To claim it requires grinding shows you don't understand the systems and mechanics. Again! That's perfectly fine! You came to the game with a mind-set the predisposed you to think you would need to grind to move forward. I most certainly made the same mistake when I first played. I sat there for hours grinding and wondering why I was not progressing. The answer ended up being pretty simple; I was not grasping the game entirely and was wasting time. When I started over and actually paid attention to what the game was telling me (naturally through world progression, enemy layout, and menus) I realized grinding was not needed.

My first time through on Xbox was upwards of 20 hours and spent grinding and failing. When I started over on PC I got through the same amount of content in just under 5 hours!

I don't really even understand what you mean by "meaningless fight mechanics" TBH. You should probably extrapolate on that.

nat

mjemirzian

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Re: What are you playing?
« Reply #22024 on: December 17, 2013, 04:45:18 PM »
Sounds like he needs to

spoiler (click to show/hide)
git gud :P
[close]

Btw I've seen guys speedrun Dark Souls while killing every(?) boss, it's kinda cool.

demi

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Re: What are you playing?
« Reply #22025 on: December 17, 2013, 04:48:47 PM »
Dragons Dogma > Souls

Fight me, Borys.

How so? My interest is piqued. I thought they weren't that similar?

Big world to explore, big monsters (though not as grotesque as Souls, more grounded in fantasy), lots of equipment, classes, and a kinda-sorta online system where you can rent random persons pawns, send your own out... and it has a story that doesnt require piecing together all these random hints and backstories.
fat

fistfulofmetal

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Re: What are you playing?
« Reply #22026 on: December 17, 2013, 04:54:18 PM »
Sounds like he needs to

spoiler (click to show/hide)
git gud :P
[close]

Btw I've seen guys speedrun Dark Souls while killing every(?) boss, it's kinda cool.

I watched someone do that earlier today. Every boss, including DLC, in like 2 hours.

But the game requires grinding tho :derp
nat

demi

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Re: What are you playing?
« Reply #22027 on: December 17, 2013, 04:57:43 PM »
I think you are confusing speedrunners with casual players... I watch people speedrun Castlevania 64 - still not going to say its a good game.
fat

The Sceneman

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Re: What are you playing?
« Reply #22028 on: December 17, 2013, 05:27:19 PM »
casuals lol
#1

Re: What are you playing?
« Reply #22029 on: December 17, 2013, 05:31:46 PM »

Exhibit A.


A few of the negatives you list show a lack of understanding over game mechanics and systems. Plus you're inclusion of "zero guidance" as a negative is completely subjective.

Claiming the game requires grinding is the biggest issue. Dark Souls is the kind of game that has the option of grinding if you really want to but by no means requires it. To claim it requires grinding shows you don't understand the systems and mechanics. Again! That's perfectly fine! You came to the game with a mind-set the predisposed you to think you would need to grind to move forward. I most certainly made the same mistake when I first played. I sat there for hours grinding and wondering why I was not progressing. The answer ended up being pretty simple; I was not grasping the game entirely and was wasting time. When I started over and actually paid attention to what the game was telling me (naturally through world progression, enemy layout, and menus) I realized grinding was not needed.

My first time through on Xbox was upwards of 20 hours and spent grinding and failing. When I started over on PC I got through the same amount of content in just under 5 hours!

I don't really even understand what you mean by "meaningless fight mechanics" TBH. You should probably extrapolate on that.

You do realize that grinding as a side-effect of dying and reclaiming your souls, or as a side-effect of warping back to a fire still counts as grinding, right? Not to mention that you just admitted to putting in 20 hours needlessly. That's 20 hours you should not have to put in to "get" a game. At that point, you're actually going to school to learn a useless skill.

I say meaningless fight mechanics because in several cases, I've had boss enemies completely unable to hit me just because I was standing right up next to them. I can flail away without worrying about dodging, parrying or running from anything because they simply bugged the fuck out. You can go on and on about how much skill is required to play a game, but if it's made moot by bad design or bad coding, it's a bad game. On the flip side, I've been stun-locked immediately upon entering a boss "arena" without even being able to see what's hitting me because the camera is technically distinguished mentally-challenged. It's a complete toss up as to whether or not you're going to get the game everyone tells you exist, the game that's easy as hell or the game that's practically impossible.

chronovore

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Re: What are you playing?
« Reply #22030 on: December 17, 2013, 07:47:15 PM »
I'd also like to throw in Blighttown as a commonly overlooked, TRC-defying, choppy, experience and immersion destroying moment which put me off the game entirely. That's definitely an area where you're not fighting the enemies as much as you're fighting the game's own shortcomings.

treythemovie

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Re: What are you playing?
« Reply #22031 on: December 18, 2013, 12:47:18 AM »
This Candy box game might be the stupidest thing I've played

spoiler (click to show/hide)
And yet I can't stop  :-\
[close]

demi

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Re: What are you playing?
« Reply #22032 on: December 18, 2013, 08:13:22 AM »
Yup
fat

chronovore

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Re: What are you playing?
« Reply #22033 on: December 18, 2013, 08:36:19 AM »
Skulls of the Shogun on iOS plus Skulls Anywhere is sweet. I suck at this game, but it's fun!

Playing XBLA free poker is fun. Zynga's free poker is oddly stressful. It's down to the timer basically being shown immediately when it's my turn, and not being able to easily see what bet I'm committing to. When it says "Call," sometimes it is a little 200 Call, and other times it's been a 20K Call. It is frustrating to try and see what the amount is while the timer is counting down. It's silly, because Call/Check is basically "commit" and only needs one button. Fold is "quit." Raise is the only other option. That's three buttons. Why does Zynga have SIX buttons for this, separated left/right corners of the screen? It's lame.

Started Shoot Many Robots; yeah, it's Metal Slug with a coat of Borderlands paint slathered on it, but I enjoyed the little bit I played.

Had a pretty decent session in GTA Online today, too.

Cerveza mas fina

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Re: What are you playing?
« Reply #22034 on: December 18, 2013, 04:24:28 PM »
I think souls is too hardcore really, i love the idea but the game is too tough and costs too much time.

I dont mind tough games, played loads of super meat boy, but there you only replay a small section. In souls its different. The hard part about souls isn that you need to be super patient and that is frustrating more then fun.

Played some Ridiculous Fishing today. Fun game, nothing crazy deep, but really an ideal mobile game.

Re: What are you playing?
« Reply #22035 on: December 18, 2013, 08:57:25 PM »
I think souls is too hardcore really, i love the idea but the game is too tough and costs too much time.

I dont mind tough games, played loads of super meat boy, but there you only replay a small section. In souls its different. The hard part about souls isn that you need to be super patient and that is frustrating more then fun.

Played some Ridiculous Fishing today. Fun game, nothing crazy deep, but really an ideal mobile game.

I loved Meatboy. Part of the difference is in the risk/reward/punishment ratio of the two. In both games, you're told that you're supposed to die a lot to "learn" the mechanics, but Meatboy didn't punish you if you died. You just started back at the beginning and tried again with zero wait, and within a few seconds you were back to that spot. It makes dying fun, makes trying again addictive. Same with Spelunky in some senses. Souls takes you in some cases 15-25 minutes backwards and forces you to follow the same path if you want all your souls back. It doesn't make you want to try again, it makes you want to quit.

Himu

  • Senior Member
Re: What are you playing?
« Reply #22036 on: December 18, 2013, 08:58:40 PM »
Yup. Souls sux. Have no patience for that bullshit. I wanted save points before boss fights for Dark Souls and they fucking rioted over here. :lol
IYKYK

Bebpo

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Re: What are you playing?
« Reply #22037 on: December 18, 2013, 09:48:25 PM »
I start Xmas holiday today so I'm going to play like 30 mins of two dozen games I've been meaning to get to, to finally check them out.  Should be fun!

The Sceneman

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Re: What are you playing?
« Reply #22038 on: December 18, 2013, 10:50:36 PM »
Yeah, Meat Boy doesn't punish you for failure. Therefore its faux difficulty

All I'm seeing is diaper babies with micro weenus
#1

tiesto

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Re: What are you playing?
« Reply #22039 on: December 19, 2013, 12:06:56 AM »
NES Remix and it's awesome.
^_^

Bebpo

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Re: What are you playing?
« Reply #22040 on: December 19, 2013, 03:11:38 AM »
Mainly just ended up playing a bunch of pinball, but pinball is awesome so that's ok.

Did try out Ultimate MvC3 - Pretty fun.  Forgot how fun MvC3 was.  Did what I guess is the single player mode with heroes and heralds and cards with abilities and it was kind of fun for 20 mins.  If I feel like playing a fighting game, maybe I'll put some time into this at some point.

Lollipop Chainsaw - This was...better than I expected.  It's a pretty decent Simple Series action game with Suda/Grasshopper dressings and good music.  I kind of miss these PS2 era games that were just short and fun.  The banter dialogue between the lead and her decapitated bf's head is pretty fun and he's basically the real world person going fuck, fuck, what is this, what the hell is going on lol  The game reminds me of Marlow Briggs.  Would've been a good XBLA/PSN/Steam $15-20 game.  I got it for like $15-20 at some point in the year, so I am pleased.  Also I forgot that post-Shadows of the Damned all these games are Akira Yamaoka, so enjoyable soundtrack is a plus.

Installing Killer is Dead now, which I also picked up for $20 last weekend.  Will see how that Suda produced game compares.

Bebpo

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Re: What are you playing?
« Reply #22041 on: December 19, 2013, 05:07:39 AM »
Oh yeah, also been playing some stuff on the phone:

Rayman Jungle Run - It's really nice looking and has some variety that makes it a little more than the usual runner game.  But I still don't care for it much.  I'm just playing it because it's a great pick up and play game when I have 5 mins to kill and don't want something to invest time into.  The problem is it's still entirely trial and error and as it gets more complex it doesn't really signal things well so you just die a lot and figure out where to jump or glide.  Plus I don't like it the game is basically "get 100% of collectibles on each stage with a perfect run, or don't bother" as the red rubys you get for the perfect run are the only thing worth anything in the game.  And it has one thing that I haven't really seen in other running games...glitches.  I'm 4 worlds in and there have been a couple of REALLY bad levels where things don't sync the same every run so sometimes I'll be running on a spot that is normally fine as a spike tentacle is weaving from the background to foreground as just visuals but somehow on one run it syncs differently and overlaps my character killing them.  Or when a fan blows you slightly off in a direction and the whole game falls apart and kills you.  Pretty annoying.  Not really for me.

The Room Episode 1 - I like this!  The puzzles are good and pacing is good and it's just fun.  However while I think it's good, I don't think it's great and it's not really gripping because it's an adventure game...without the adventure and just the puzzles.  The whole reason puzzle adventure games work is that there's a story driving the experience alongside the puzzles, giving it meaning as a game versus just like a collection of puzzles.  Here you get some notes but they're all hokey and there's really not a plot.  I'm enjoying it and will finish it and pick up episode 2, but it really just makes me want to play 999-2 since that has puzzles & story!

and then played a few hours of Killer is Dead - You know, I'm glad games like this exist to show Japan is not complete lost to typical handheld and mobile stuff.  KiD shows they can still do that weird ass shit that you can only get from Japan in a console game, and it's refreshing after console games are 99% by western design philosophy.  Story seems interesting and is presented really well.  Combat seemed another Samurai Champloo/Blood/No More Heroes/Lollipop Chainsaw again until they gave you the JUST GUARD and DODGE COUNTER moves and now it plays closer to Metal Gear Rising with a shittier camera.  Pretty fun!  Not being directed by Suda51 (like everything post NMH), it still doesn't stand up with the style and just "things all click into place" like NMH1 and K7 do, but it definitely seems like more a real "Major Suda" game than Shadows of the Damned did; the first real mission's art design was really, really neat.  The only downside besides SCREEN TEARING EVERYWHERE on the PS3 version and an iffy camera is the FPS shooting, it's not Shadows of the Damned, which at least was a B-grade RE4 quality shooting experience.  This seems pretty C- Japan FPS grade and unfortunately it looks like you'll need to alternate between sword combat and shooting throughout.  As for the dating game missions, they basically play like a tame version of any Japanese dating game mini-game, and since it was made in Japan where there is an audience for that as 1/5th of the games released in the country are dating games, eh I'll just chalk it up to wacky jappy stuff and shake my head and laugh at it.  In another game it might've been ugh, but in a Suda game with all the weird shit he's put throughout, having a weirdo take on the Japanese dating game seems for par.

StealthFan

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Re: What are you playing?
« Reply #22042 on: December 19, 2013, 05:10:17 AM »
Souls series isn't even that hard :heh So much of that shit is memorizing enemy patterns and timing, just like old school games. It's also vague. The difficulty is vastly overstated by people that simply no longer have the patience for such shit, and overvalued by nublets that can't handle games with real difficulty.

Dark Souls 2 better improve on Dark Souls. If it is just more of the same I am gonna peace out. Dark Souls was seriously flawed, in that the second half was complete shit due to poor level, enemy and encounter design.
reckt

magus

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Re: What are you playing?
« Reply #22043 on: December 19, 2013, 06:28:03 AM »
Souls series isn't even that hard :heh So much of that shit is memorizing enemy patterns and timing, just like old school games. It's also vague. The difficulty is vastly overstated by people that simply no longer have the patience for such shit, and overvalued by nublets that can't handle games with real difficulty.

Dark Souls 2 better improve on Dark Souls. If it is just more of the same I am gonna peace out. Dark Souls was seriously flawed, in that the second half was complete shit due to poor level, enemy and encounter design.



Quote
No luck. She/He has a pattern that you have to learn. Most people do it without even getting hit once.

how does it feel to be on the same level of a youtube comment?
<----

StealthFan

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Re: What are you playing?
« Reply #22044 on: December 19, 2013, 06:39:10 AM »
Feels right

The Souls series would've even be sniffed at if it was released in the PSX era.
« Last Edit: December 19, 2013, 06:42:01 AM by Commander Cosby Cock »
reckt

Himu

  • Senior Member
Re: What are you playing?
« Reply #22045 on: December 19, 2013, 03:25:42 PM »
I agree, Dark Souls isn't that hard. That is actually my biggest complaint. But I have no time to replay 15-20 minutes of easy difficulty if I die. It is boring and I'd rather do something else. If, when I died, and it felt like a challenge to retrieve my souls, instead of being bored out of my skull as I one shot enemies with back stabs, I'd like it.
« Last Edit: December 19, 2013, 03:27:39 PM by Formerly Known As Himuro »
IYKYK

Joe Molotov

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Re: What are you playing?
« Reply #22046 on: December 19, 2013, 04:13:38 PM »
Feels right (Image removed from quote.)

The Souls series would've even be sniffed at if it was released in the PSX era.

Dark Souls is basically King's Field HD, and we know nobody fucked with that on the PSX except demi.
©@©™

archnemesis

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Re: What are you playing?
« Reply #22047 on: December 19, 2013, 04:17:27 PM »
The King's Field series is very different when it comes to combat. With the first-person perspective you're stuck using similar tactics as in games like Daggerfall.

Cerveza mas fina

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Re: What are you playing?
« Reply #22048 on: December 19, 2013, 05:35:35 PM »
I think souls is too hardcore really, i love the idea but the game is too tough and costs too much time.

I dont mind tough games, played loads of super meat boy, but there you only replay a small section. In souls its different. The hard part about souls isn that you need to be super patient and that is frustrating more then fun.

Played some Ridiculous Fishing today. Fun game, nothing crazy deep, but really an ideal mobile game.

I loved Meatboy. Part of the difference is in the risk/reward/punishment ratio of the two. In both games, you're told that you're supposed to die a lot to "learn" the mechanics, but Meatboy didn't punish you if you died. You just started back at the beginning and tried again with zero wait, and within a few seconds you were back to that spot. It makes dying fun, makes trying again addictive. Same with Spelunky in some senses. Souls takes you in some cases 15-25 minutes backwards and forces you to follow the same path if you want all your souls back. It doesn't make you want to try again, it makes you want to quit.

Thats a perfect explanation, die a few times in souls and you feel like you're wasting time not having fun. While meatboy is tough too it doesn't waste time.

The Sceneman

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Re: What are you playing?
« Reply #22049 on: December 19, 2013, 06:02:11 PM »
Exactly, it's not actually tough. You do a small chunk, then onto the next bit. Try and replay a Meat Boy level you passed, you'll have to do it again and again, just like the first time. It is not a test of skill
#1

tiesto

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Re: What are you playing?
« Reply #22050 on: December 19, 2013, 06:10:59 PM »
Yeah, when I played Meat Boy (or other checkpoint-heavy games that love to kill you), I never felt like I was being forced to improve all that much... I just felt that if I kept brute-forcing the level, eventually everything would come together and I'd beat it.
^_^

Re: What are you playing?
« Reply #22051 on: December 19, 2013, 06:23:35 PM »
Yeah, when I played Meat Boy (or other checkpoint-heavy games that love to kill you), I never felt like I was being forced to improve all that much... I just felt that if I kept brute-forcing the level, eventually everything would come together and I'd beat it.

I have to disagree. If you go back and play the first few levels you'll die a whole lot less. It's a subtle learning curve, but it exists regardless.

The Sceneman

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Re: What are you playing?
« Reply #22052 on: December 19, 2013, 06:24:49 PM »
Yeah, try and 1cc Ikaruga (or any other good game that requires skill) , (or even beat w/ limited continues) in your first couple goes. You'll get owned, then you can try and bust out the argument: "I have to replay the same 20 minutes of gameplay! Thats not hard! Its just BORING!" How dumb does that sound? That's what pro Meat Boy anti Souls people are saying.

tl;dr - babies cry because no one is around to wipe their poor baby butts
« Last Edit: December 19, 2013, 06:26:32 PM by The Sceneman »
#1

Himu

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Re: What are you playing?
« Reply #22053 on: December 19, 2013, 06:39:34 PM »
The difference is that 1 crediting Ikaruga takes skills. Don't make the mistake of thinking that the time needed is why I think Dark Souls is tedious.

In Jet Set Radio, the later levels are 15-25+ minute behemoths and when first playing them, you WILL likely run out of time as you explore and figure where the red tags are. Even more so as you replay and learn the location of green tags for extra points, and concocting a route to get Jet ranking. But here's the thing. Every time I played a Jet Set Radio stage, I was learning something new: a new path, a new way to manipulate the game physics, until I mastered that game top to bottom. Even now when I play JSR, having mastered the game, I still fuck up now and then. Because it's that type of game.

With Dark Souls, when I die, there's often a 5-15 minute trek back to where my soul was, and I'm not learning a single goddamn thing, because I've already mastered the enemies that I'm encountering. That's boring. A few back stabs, a few heavy swings, some walking, and I'm back to where my soul was. No challenge, no hardships, no learning new ways to play the game. Just the same shit. That is not challenging to me, playing a game after a death should be a learning experience. It rarely was for me in Dark Souls.

I have no problem playing a stage for 20 minutes and doing it over. I do have a problem with doing that, while not being challenged.

1 crediting Ikaruga is a totally different scenario and a really bad comparison. A more apt comparison is beating Dark Souls without dying. That would be a challenge, and it still wouldn't make Dark Souls a great game.
IYKYK

The Sceneman

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Re: What are you playing?
« Reply #22054 on: December 19, 2013, 06:40:16 PM »
theres this really great game called Candy Crush Saga.

Once you pass a level, you can move onto the next one, and try it as many times as you like, without having to replay the previous stage! This is wonderful, as I'm quite a busy guy, and don't have time to be repeating stuff. If things get too tough, you can pay a nominal amount of real money for powerups to get through the level quicker, thus taking even less time! It's really great and addicting, and really satisfies my itch for a more hardcore cerebral experience after coming from Farmville.
#1

The Sceneman

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Re: What are you playing?
« Reply #22055 on: December 19, 2013, 06:43:11 PM »

With Dark Souls, when I die, there's often a 5-15 minute trek back to where my soul was, and I'm not learning a single goddamn thing, because I've already mastered the enemies that I'm encountering. That's boring. A few back stabs, a few heavy swings, some walking, and I'm back to where my soul was. No challenge, no hardships, no learning new ways to play the game. Just the same shit. That is not challenging to me, playing a game after a death should be a learning experience. It rarely was for me in Dark Souls.


the thing is, you need to be on your toes the whole time. Even the small enemies can kill you if you're off guard. And you say theres no challenge or hardship? Why do you keep dying and having to reclaim your souls?
#1

Himu

  • Senior Member
Re: What are you playing?
« Reply #22056 on: December 19, 2013, 06:46:25 PM »
While it's true that smaller enemies can kill you if you're not in the game, it takes a lot for that happen and it never really did. Because Dark Souls is like Mega Man. Mega Man isn't challenging to me anymore because I already know how to exploit most enemies. Except this is extended to 10-15 minutes.

You're right, I'll die. But you think that dying = hard game. It isn't.

Compare to Ninja Gaiden where random mooks can kill me even after I've learned their patterns. Dark Souls isn't that type of game. The enemy ai, physics, and more simply don't lend to that form of play. The enemies have simplistic patterns and stupid ai. In Ninja Gaiden, when I die, I'm fucking thrilled for the game to challenges me as I get to the point where I died. In Dark Souls, I groan, and enter brain dead slumber as I backstab after backstab.
« Last Edit: December 19, 2013, 06:48:39 PM by Formerly Known As Himuro »
IYKYK

Re: What are you playing?
« Reply #22057 on: December 19, 2013, 06:47:16 PM »
Yeah, try and 1cc Ikaruga (or any other good game that requires skill) , (or even beat w/ limited continues) in your first couple goes. You'll get owned, then you can try and bust out the argument: "I have to replay the same 20 minutes of gameplay! Thats not hard! Its just BORING!" How dumb does that sound? That's what pro Meat Boy anti Souls people are saying.

tl;dr - babies cry because no one is around to wipe their poor baby butts

Ikaruga is fun though.

Himu

  • Senior Member
Re: What are you playing?
« Reply #22058 on: December 19, 2013, 06:50:36 PM »
I think that's the main kicker. I just don't find Souls games fun. Maybe I wouldn't mind playing 15 minutes over if I found the games fun. But ultimately, the enemy ai and extremely limited combat makes the games decidedly unfun for me.
IYKYK

magus

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Re: What are you playing?
« Reply #22059 on: December 19, 2013, 06:51:00 PM »
the enemies between the closest bonfire and ornstein and smough all move so slow it's possible to run away from them without even having to fight and everytime those two fucker cheaply one shot you it's 5-10 minutes of walking back and forth,back and forth,back and forth,back and forth

honestly i wouldn't have finished this if i wasn't having a piss contest with a pal of mine,i'll be damned if i touch dark souls 2
<----

Re: What are you playing?
« Reply #22060 on: December 19, 2013, 06:52:50 PM »
It's also kind of disingenuous to suggest 1-crediting Ikaruga is the same as even beating Dark Souls. Beating Ikaruga on Normal is a challenge enough as it is. 1-crediting it is more akin to 1-lifing Dark Souls, which given the way the game goes out of its way to screw you sounds awful.

Himu

  • Senior Member
Re: What are you playing?
« Reply #22061 on: December 19, 2013, 06:56:42 PM »
:sabu Being able to run away from enemies is so true. :sabu

bububu challenge  :heh
IYKYK

fistfulofmetal

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Re: What are you playing?
« Reply #22062 on: December 19, 2013, 07:02:39 PM »
:sabu Being able to run away from enemies is so true. :sabu

bububu challenge  :heh


There's a trade-off to it. When you first start playing you can obviously run away from the enemies and avoid combat. It's a part of the game and designed that way. Enemies purposefully have an aggro range and will leash back to their initial start point if you move out of their range. That's all designed that way.

You CAN do that, but you're missing a lot of practice with the combat and getting used to things like timing, parrying, stamina management, etc. The time fighting the trash mobs is there to prepare you for fighting tougher enemies down the line.

So maybe you're just Don Jon Badass and can figure it out without the ramp-up, great! You're rewarded with being able to avoid most enemies. Plus if you're simply moving through an old area to find a vendor or fight a boss you don't have to waste time fighting pointless enemies. It's all designed for a reason.

I mean all of this just goes back to what I've said a few times. You complain about aspects of the game because you don't understand why they're there. Yes, we know you don't like the combat. Yes we know you don't like having to redo areas. Yes, we know you wish there were more checkpoints. But there aren't. And there never is going to be. So there's no point discussing it because the game isn't for you.
nat

Re: What are you playing?
« Reply #22063 on: December 19, 2013, 07:05:28 PM »
You'll never understand WHY Superman 64 was designed the way it is, so talking about what you hate about it is a waste of time.

Himu

  • Senior Member
Re: What are you playing?
« Reply #22064 on: December 19, 2013, 07:06:29 PM »
But ultimately it's a game with horrendously bad enemy ai. To me, the crux of a good action game are good ai, varied enemy patterns, balance, and variety. Dark Souls struggles on a lot of these things and we all agree that it's not a full on rpg, but more of an action game. So I don't find Dark Souls to be a very good action game and would rather play something else. I've invested about 30 hours into Dark Souls. That's enough for me to know that I don't  like it.
IYKYK

fistfulofmetal

  • RAPTOR
  • Senior Member
Re: What are you playing?
« Reply #22065 on: December 19, 2013, 07:12:50 PM »
But ultimately it's a game with horrendously bad enemy ai.

Compared to...?
nat

magus

  • LIKES FF7
  • Senior Member
Re: What are you playing?
« Reply #22066 on: December 19, 2013, 07:44:07 PM »
have you guys reached the sen fortress? for me that's where the bullshit start to get on my nerve

- tiny passage way where you die if something graze you
- then there is the whole thing with cannons where you go back to the tiny passage thing if you die (at least there is a bonfire somewhere... but it's sort of hidden so let's just cut it out that it's just sort of bullshit)
- then you get to anor londo and it's another tiny passage festival,this one is even worse because there are now enemies shooting at you and knocking you down
- then you get to the boss of anor londo which is a boss duo,it's pretty easy to lose sight of one of them thanks to the shitty camera and you often get hit as one of them charge off screen,of course it's totaly possible to die in a single hit if the other guy attack while you are busy doing your stun animation from the other attack
- then if you kill one of them the other guy grow and start spamming an attack that will one shot you if it hits,if you die go back to the previous step
- then you get to lost izalith and is such a chore that they actualy put there a secret passage to skip the boring part... i've never done it properly and always took the secret passage because i know everybody complains about this part of the game
- i think the video i posted above earlier is a good explanation why the bed of chaos is pure unaldurated bullshit,oh by the way if you take the secret passage there is only a single enemy from which you can easily run away but it still takes the usual 5-10 minute to get back to the boss
- the caves are ok but bullshit can still happen (example)
- there is a bit with invisible bridge's because that was still a flavor of falling down a pit that you didn't try

special mention

- that stupid salamander that can curse you and cut your health in half for the rest of the game or until you decide to backtrack to the first fucking zone of the game
- and to be honest and sort of nitpickingy,hiding a weapon inside the tail of an enemy you don't know you can even hurt was kind of stupid
« Last Edit: December 19, 2013, 07:46:13 PM by magus »
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StealthFan

  • Swings Both Ways
  • Senior Member
Re: What are you playing?
« Reply #22067 on: December 19, 2013, 07:47:00 PM »
Feels right (Image removed from quote.)

The Souls series would've even be sniffed at if it was released in the PSX era.

Dark Souls is basically King's Field HD, and we know nobody fucked with that on the PSX except demi.

I played Shadow Tower and the PSX Fields recently. It was piff :lawd
reckt

Raban

  • Senior Member
Re: What are you playing?
« Reply #22068 on: December 19, 2013, 07:47:44 PM »
So much asspain in this thread

Himu

  • Senior Member
Re: What are you playing?
« Reply #22069 on: December 19, 2013, 07:51:20 PM »
IYKYK

fistfulofmetal

  • RAPTOR
  • Senior Member
Re: What are you playing?
« Reply #22070 on: December 19, 2013, 08:03:50 PM »
The player wasn't watching the flanks. Their fault for not paying attention.
nat

fistfulofmetal

  • RAPTOR
  • Senior Member
Re: What are you playing?
« Reply #22071 on: December 19, 2013, 08:09:42 PM »
Sen's Fortress is a funhouse. It's basically a mini Demon's Souls stage. Tons of hallways and secret routes to discover. It's the ultimate challenge that uses everything you've learned up to that point. Be patient. Watch your flanks. Watch out for traps. Conserve your Estus. Don't be a fool.

When you learn the layout and can run through in under a minute, it's incredibly satisfying.
nat

fistfulofmetal

  • RAPTOR
  • Senior Member
Re: What are you playing?
« Reply #22072 on: December 19, 2013, 08:12:04 PM »
Basically this:



(the second adventurer is Himu btw)
nat

Purple Filth

  • This cosmic dance of bursting decadence and withheld permissions twists all our arms collectively, but if sweetness can win—and it can—then I'll still be here tomorrow to high-five you yesterday, my friend. Peace
  • Senior Member
Re: What are you playing?
« Reply #22073 on: December 19, 2013, 08:15:22 PM »
just the Amazon/Steam sales game

:tocry

Re: What are you playing?
« Reply #22074 on: December 19, 2013, 08:34:45 PM »
Basically this:

(Image removed from quote.)

(the second adventurer is Himu btw)

I don't think Himu has complained about easy challenges like that.

Himu

  • Senior Member
Re: What are you playing?
« Reply #22075 on: December 19, 2013, 08:39:47 PM »
That person isn't me at all and I find it funny Fistful is acting this high and mighty when he can't beat mega man x.
IYKYK

demi

  • cooler than willco
  • Administrator
Re: What are you playing?
« Reply #22076 on: December 19, 2013, 08:52:17 PM »
And gets stumped in Zelda ALBW
fat

naff

  • someday you feed on a tree frog
  • Senior Member
Re: What are you playing?
« Reply #22077 on: December 19, 2013, 08:59:26 PM »
You know himu has barely actually played the game right? He wrote off demons souls without being able to get past the iron tower or whatever that second intro boss is.


There's a valid argument, then there's himu just sucking really hard :shaq
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Himu

  • Senior Member
Re: What are you playing?
« Reply #22078 on: December 19, 2013, 09:01:40 PM »
I beat tower knight. :what I think Demons is far better than Dark.

My problem with Demons and Dark Souls are totally different. Dark, I think is just boring and tedious. Demons, I didn't feel any need to keep playing despite thinking it was good. It just didn't click with me. I'd rather play a Wizardry clone or an SMT.

I like how Souls fan automatically judge you if you don't like the Souls games. Easily the most obnoxious fan base in gaming now. :what
« Last Edit: December 19, 2013, 09:10:49 PM by Formerly Known As Himuro »
IYKYK

naff

  • someday you feed on a tree frog
  • Senior Member
Re: What are you playing?
« Reply #22079 on: December 19, 2013, 09:11:00 PM »
Having to redo an area is a chore I agree. It's a chore I appreciated tho, it's risk and reward. It keeps you on your toes and makes completing an area much more satisfying. The whole thing about low level enemies and learning nothing on subsequent attempts only applied for me in the early areas with skeleton guards. memorising an area and exploring with the fear of 'if I die I have to redo all of this crap' and then not messing it up extremely gratifying. If I was given checkpoints to bypass the entry level bullshit I wouldn't fear an invasion or that area I haven't explored nearly as much.
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