Author Topic: What are you playing? (Read 4677427 times)

Himu · « **Reply #9780 on:** February 12, 2011, 02:50:16 PM »

VANGUARD

SENTINEL

magus · « **Reply #9781 on:** February 12, 2011, 02:51:01 PM »

Quote from: iconoclast on February 12, 2011, 02:34:50 PM

you shouldn't have picked a soldier magus. At least classes like Vanguard get magic abilities and shit, soldiers just make the game seem like a generic TPS.

uh really? guess it's also my fault then
i picked soldier mainly because i wanted to be able to equip everything including heavy armor,it seemed the class closer to the warrior archetype

Quote

Because there are shit sidequests doesn't meant they're ALL shit.

all the one i have done so far were lame,the best one would have be when you land on a planet and you get attacked by that giant tentacle monster.......

.....then you proceed to circle him for 2-3 minutes while shooting him with cannon and then he vanish into nothing

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What are you talking about? You don't have to bring Tali anywhere.

okay i'll rephrase that "the class system barely seems to matter other than i have to bring a techinician like tali so i can open those lock's that require the electronic skill or whatever"

Quote

ME2, however is a great game but not even worth describing as being an rpg, because it's not.

and uh... i know nothing about ME2 but what makes it different from the original exactly?

Himu · « **Reply #9782 on:** February 12, 2011, 02:56:03 PM »

You aren't doing story planet sidequests? Like the one where you have to check up on the leader of Virmire because he's being suspected for treason (iirc). It's just a small sidequest on the planet of Virmire, a story planet. You don't have to go to other planets or anything. Those are the best ME sidequests.

ME2 takes away every part of the rpg-ish that ME1 had. It's more streamlined but it's pretty much straight up action adventure with light rpg elements. In ME1 you had like what, 8-10 stats you choose, including abilities? In ME2, you can pool stats into only 2-3 things. The loot system in ME1 was bad so they decided to just get rid of all of it, and you have no loot or items, and individual enemies don't net you xp. You level up after "stages".

magus · « **Reply #9783 on:** February 12, 2011, 02:59:59 PM »

i don't think i have ever been on virmire,all the sidequest i have done where

- the one where you give the data disk to the journalist
- the one with the guy who has the dead wife (which i haven't solved because i refuse to spend skill points just so that i can talk better)
- the one where you find the squad dead on the orange planet
- the monkey one

i also got some prompt from 2 other side-quest,one about biotics gathering or something like that,and another about a diplomatic but i was going to see those after the current story segment

Himu · « **Reply #9784 on:** February 12, 2011, 03:04:37 PM »

The biotic gathering on the spaceship is actually a good sidequest as it's not on a planet. Anything that's not on a non-story planet is good or at least decent.

magus · « **Reply #9785 on:** February 12, 2011, 05:34:02 PM »

i went and did the biotic side-quest and also did the nuclear weapon side-quest and all of these feel useless,there is no real reward attached to it...

like i got a much better armor in a random chest i found inside the biotic quarter and it was a much better reward than the actual reward for the quest... why couldn't that be the reward?

maybe i should just ignore them and proceed with the main story?

Positive Touch · « **Reply #9786 on:** February 12, 2011, 05:48:04 PM »

Quote from: magus on February 12, 2011, 05:34:02 PM

maybe i should just ignore them and proceed with the main story?

do this

The Sceneman · « **Reply #9787 on:** February 12, 2011, 06:10:54 PM »

Quote from: magus on February 12, 2011, 05:34:02 PM

i went and did the biotic side-quest and also did the nuclear weapon side-quest and all of these feel useless,there is no real reward attached to it...

like i got a much better armor in a random chest i found inside the biotic quarter and it was a much better reward than the actual reward for the quest... why couldn't that be the reward?

maybe i should just ignore them and proceed with the main story?

you gotta do a certain number of sidequests for a couple of achievements

MyNameIsMethodis · « **Reply #9788 on:** February 12, 2011, 07:00:20 PM »

purchased Two Worlds 2 because it looks sick, what did you guys think of it?

Smooth Groove · « **Reply #9789 on:** February 12, 2011, 07:35:57 PM »

Quote from: Diunx on February 12, 2011, 12:43:02 PM

Action packed? awesome set pieces? I guess we played a different demo, all I remember is a twenty minutes unskipable and beyond boring cutscene, horrible shooting, creepy looking characters and shitty robots.

Sounds just like MGS. You should be loving it.

magus · « **Reply #9790 on:** February 12, 2011, 07:36:43 PM »

Quote from: The Sceneman on February 12, 2011, 06:10:54 PM

Quote from: magus on February 12, 2011, 05:34:02 PM
i went and did the biotic side-quest and also did the nuclear weapon side-quest and all of these feel useless,there is no real reward attached to it...

like i got a much better armor in a random chest i found inside the biotic quarter and it was a much better reward than the actual reward for the quest... why couldn't that be the reward?

maybe i should just ignore them and proceed with the main story?

you gotta do a certain number of sidequests for a couple of achievements

well i have no intention to 1000/1000 the game since it involves finishing the game 3 times and once at the hardest difficulty but i'll keep that in mind

i went and did another quest and found a rifle that was like thrice as powerfull as my current one

you know when people said that "THE GAME HAS AWESOME WRITING" i tought they were just going "HURR DURR JRPG SUCKS!" but i actualy like talking with your party member as long as their skin is not pink

Joe Molotov · « **Reply #9791 on:** February 12, 2011, 08:17:10 PM »

Quote from: The Worst Poster Ever on February 12, 2011, 07:00:20 PM

purchased Two Worlds 2 because it looks sick, what did you guys think of it?

Great Euro PC RPG, dumbed down for consoletards (like pretty much every PC RPG since Oblivion).

fistfulofmetal · « **Reply #9792 on:** February 12, 2011, 09:09:02 PM »

Dead Space 2 continues to impress. really great game.

MyNameIsMethodis · « **Reply #9793 on:** February 12, 2011, 10:31:40 PM »

Quote from: Joe Molotov® EDGE™ on February 12, 2011, 08:17:10 PM

Quote from: The Worst Poster Ever on February 12, 2011, 07:00:20 PM
purchased Two Worlds 2 because it looks sick, what did you guys think of it?

Great Euro PC RPG, dumbed down for consoletards (like pretty much every PC RPG since Oblivion).

consoletards oh well

Robo · « **Reply #9794 on:** February 12, 2011, 10:44:13 PM »

I was looking over FAQs on GameFAQs for some of the relics I missed in Dante's Inferno, and this guy writing one particular FAQ has written in the Author's Notes:

"You may also notice that I do not curse, instead of the 'D' word everyone knows so well, the souls you find in Hell I will refer do as the 'Condemned' instead, to spare myself from having to speak or type any sort of profanity."

This bro spent presumably hours upon hours playing and writing an FAQ for a game about Hell whose sole reputable feature is in the abundance of gore and titties, but he won't write the word "damn" in his guide. I said SMH out loud, that's how much I was SMH.

Stoney Mason · « **Reply #9795 on:** February 12, 2011, 11:03:09 PM »

Great Rumbler · « **Reply #9796 on:** February 12, 2011, 11:03:12 PM »

Quote from: Robo on February 12, 2011, 10:44:13 PM

I was looking over FAQs on GameFAQs for some of the relics I missed in Dante's Inferno, and this guy writing one particular FAQ has written in the Author's Notes:

"You may also notice that I do not curse, instead of the 'D' word everyone knows so well, the souls you find in Hell I will refer do as the 'Condemned' instead, to spare myself from having to speak or type any sort of profanity."

This bro spent presumably hours upon hours playing and writing an FAQ for a game about Hell whose sole reputable feature is in the abundance of gore and titties, but he won't write the word "damn" in his guide. I said SMH out loud, that's how much I was SMH.

It's not even profanity in that context...

Himu · « **Reply #9797 on:** February 12, 2011, 11:04:46 PM »

demi · « **Reply #9798 on:** February 12, 2011, 11:06:21 PM »

Robo. How was that fat jiggly satan cock?

Bebpo · « **Reply #9799 on:** February 12, 2011, 11:18:32 PM »

Quote from: Robo on February 12, 2011, 10:44:13 PM

I was looking over FAQs on GameFAQs for some of the relics I missed in Dante's Inferno, and this guy writing one particular FAQ has written in the Author's Notes:

"You may also notice that I do not curse, instead of the 'D' word everyone knows so well, the souls you find in Hell I will refer do as the 'Condemned' instead, to spare myself from having to speak or type any sort of profanity."

This bro spent presumably hours upon hours playing and writing an FAQ for a game about Hell whose sole reputable feature is in the abundance of gore and titties, but he won't write the word "damn" in his guide. I said SMH out loud, that's how much I was SMH.

edit: this is actually going in my book of quotes that I will one day compile and sell!

Robo · « **Reply #9800 on:** February 13, 2011, 04:01:31 AM »

Quote from: demi on February 12, 2011, 11:06:21 PM

Robo. How was that fat jiggly satan cock?

I love it. I only wish there was a bestiary so I could look at Satan's cock without having to play that terrible game.

naff · « **Reply #9801 on:** February 13, 2011, 06:52:54 AM »

Quote from: magus on February 12, 2011, 10:03:54 AM

(Image removed from quote.)

surely certainly not as linear as FFXIII amirite?

This is just pathetic trolling. Go back to your weaboo games

also for you

spoiler (click to show/hide)

Not meaning to be anal but I thought I'd point this (important) distinction out again...

TOUGH =

NOT

THROUGH as in "see through"

[close]

Stoney Mason · « **Reply #9802 on:** February 13, 2011, 07:22:05 AM »

Quote from: quietID on February 13, 2011, 06:52:54 AM

Quote from: magus on February 12, 2011, 10:03:54 AM
(Image removed from quote.)

surely certainly not as linear as FFXIII amirite?

This is just pathetic trolling. Go back to your weaboo games

also for you

spoiler (click to show/hide)
Not meaning to be anal but I thought I'd point this (important) distinction out again...

TOUGH =

NOT

THROUGH as in "see through"

[close]

lulz. Somehow I missed that map. Its just dumb on so many levels. Let us count the ways.

1.) Mass Effect is mostly a shooter.
2.) There was never any promise of non-linearity. Not that a series can't change but its not like the series started off as an open world game and then suddenly this edition was mostly linear.
3.) Most shooters are in fact pretty linear. Hence the shooting in Mass Effect.
4.) FF typically has a tradition of a linear story with a mostly non-linear world once you get past the initial bits. There are exceptions to the degree of how open this world is in various editions but certainly 13 is the least open of any of the modern versions of the game. It's atypical for the genre which is part of the reason a lot of people who typically like that genre don't like that game. The tunnel maps were just a way to show displeasure for that type of fan. It's not the only reason why that game is disappointing. It's just a symptom of it.
5.) The more proper criticism of the Mass Effect maps is the layout of the maps in the side quests are repeated over and over again along with repeat geometry. That's the killer flaw there and its really bad and annoying and worth dissing. This was fixed in Mass Effect 2 which is one of the many reasons why Mass Effect 2 is a better game. Mass Effect had a lot of issues on the game front. Its why I was always very mixed on it and was glad Mass Effect 2 took a very different approach to the direction of the series. Less rpg trappings for no good reason. More shooter. Keep the dialogue choices. Keep the decision moments. Keep enough rpg lite moments to give flavor to a shooter. You're not making Kotor or Baldur's Gate here.
6.) None of this changes how incredibly average FF 13 is. Nor will it change Westerns to suddenly love a game in the vein of FF13.
7.) If you want to make a like to like comparison at least compare FF13 to Dragon Age or something. That's a "typical" JRPG versus a "typical" WRPG at least. Also the dungeons in Dragon Age are mostly linear. But the freedom choicse that people who like Western RPG's want ala choices in the quest, ability to tackle different quests even the main ones in preferred order, ability to mostly pick your party, ability to develop individual relationships with certain characters, are in that game. What Westerns are responding to in the RPG genre in respect to western rpgs verus JRPG games is the ability to have some choices in the direction of the story versus having no choice at all and the sense that you are being funneled in pretty much every way. There are some genres where westerns don't mind this very linear approach. Shooters come to mind. But traditional RPG's are becoming less and less that here and always had a more open tradition here.

magus · « **Reply #9803 on:** February 13, 2011, 10:12:34 AM »

Quote

This is just pathetic trolling. Go back to your weaboo games

but why? what i want to say is that there are a lot of game that are as linear as FF13 yet it's okay for those but become AN HORRIBLE PROBLEM when it comes to FF13,i picked mass effect because it's the last game i'm playing that is highly regarded,i would happily have done the same with lost odyssey (well ok that doesn't count as highly regarded...) if i could find some maps of the game lying around.....

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also for you

did i do that again? i'm sorry $:-\$

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6.) None of this changes how incredibly average FF 13 is. Nor will it change Westerns to suddenly love a game in the vein of FF13.

see if you think that FF13 is average because you didn't like the combat or you wanted to punch snow in the face,i have no problem with that but complaining that FF13 is too linear is like complaining that a game is "too classic" and then slap a 10 when dragon quest roll around,it's just stuuuuuuuuuuuuupid!

Diunx · « **Reply #9804 on:** February 13, 2011, 10:14:25 AM »

Quote from: Robo on February 12, 2011, 10:44:13 PM

I was looking over FAQs on GameFAQs for some of the relics I missed in Dante's Inferno, and this guy writing one particular FAQ has written in the Author's Notes:

"You may also notice that I do not curse, instead of the 'D' word everyone knows so well, the souls you find in Hell I will refer do as the 'Condemned' instead, to spare myself from having to speak or type any sort of profanity."

This bro spent presumably hours upon hours playing and writing an FAQ for a game about Hell whose sole reputable feature is in the abundance of gore and titties, but he won't write the word "damn" in his guide. I said SMH out loud, that's how much I was SMH.

A couple of months ago I went to a gamestore after work to see if the new Castlevania was already out over here and this guy comes in and says he wants to return a pirated copy of Dante's Inferno his little brother's bought because they were chirstians and couldn't play that game

Stoney Mason · « **Reply #9805 on:** February 13, 2011, 10:21:42 AM »

Quote from: magus on February 13, 2011, 10:12:34 AM

see if you think that FF13 is average because you didn't like the combat or you wanted to punch snow in the face,i have no problem with that but complaining that FF13 is too linear is like complaining that a game is "too classic" and then slap a 10 when dragon quest roll around,it's just stuuuuuuuuuuuuupid!

It is too linear for way too long. Yes JRPG's are linear by nature but its one thing when the story dictates the linear pace of the game but you still feel like you are travelling the world as you go from town to town or engage in an occasional side quest. It provides the pacing of the game. You feel like part of the game is a dungeon crawl but you feel like another part of it is exploration as you come across new towns and new areas and new people. Part of this is an illusion of freedom but you still feel like you are travelling the world. FF 13 fucks this up. It never doesn't feel as if you are truly traveling down a series of tubes. It feels like a never ending dungeon crawl. It never feels open until you get to that specific chapter. And that's too long. Like I said that picture thing was just a snarky attempt at explaining that concept. It just doesn't feel right for what people (westerners) want from that genre.

People want different things from different genres. From RPG's they want either freedom or a pretty good illusion of it. FF 13 doesn't deliver on this front. That being said, if I had cared about most of the characters for me personally that level of linearity might have worked. But it didn't. So I didn't even have a sense of freedom or exploration to fall back on to enjoy the game for a very long time. By the time that came, I was over it.

Diunx · « **Reply #9806 on:** February 13, 2011, 11:33:55 AM »

Played a couple of minutes of Fatal Frame, pretty cool game is the entire game black and white? Also found a proper english version of persona 3 instead of the undub crap that is all over the web gonna play it after I'm done with Nocturne

magus · « **Reply #9807 on:** February 13, 2011, 11:35:57 AM »

just to make another example,i recently finished resonance of fate and i liked it,it is an extremely linear game,barring the fact that there are side-quest,a good chunk of these side-quest gets solved by returning to a previous dungeon or simply fighting a recolor of a previous monster

you are telling me the lack of that is what makes FF13 bad?? why the linearity is not a problem there?

but anyway... maybe i'm just derailing the thread,i'm sorry for that but it's just the whole argument really pisses me off

demi · « **Reply #9808 on:** February 13, 2011, 11:43:51 AM »

spoiler (click to show/hide)

FF13 > ME

[close]

spoiler (click to show/hide)

ME2 > FF13

[close]

Great Rumbler · « **Reply #9809 on:** February 13, 2011, 12:18:24 PM »

Quote from: magus on February 13, 2011, 11:35:57 AM

just to make another example,i recently finished resonance of fate and i liked it,it is an extremely linear game,barring the fact that there are side-quest,a good chunk of these side-quest gets solved by returning to a previous dungeon or simply fighting a recolor of a previous monster

you are telling me the lack of that is what makes FF13 bad?? why the linearity is not a problem there?

but anyway... maybe i'm just derailing the thread,i'm sorry for that but it's just the whole argument really pisses me off

Resonance of Fate actually has towns.

Himu · « **Reply #9810 on:** February 13, 2011, 12:32:02 PM »

Quote from: Kosma on February 13, 2011, 07:57:32 AM

I thought we settled a long time ago that WRPG's are rpg's and JRPG's are strategy combat simulators.

Personally, I find the rpg'ing in most modern wrpgs to be lacking. My idea of an rpg is with depth and lots of sub-systems. jrpgs happen to fill that niche. Some (rarely) wrpgs scratch that itch too, such as Dragon Age. I don't care about "role-playing" or having my hand in the story, I care about tight design and numbers. When I role play in an rpg, I give the characters roles. I craft a story or image around that character and give them a gameplay role. I find that infinitely more interesting than making arbitrary choices in a story where ultimately my choices mean very little.

It's two different takes of the same whole. Doesn't mean jrpgs aren't rpgs.

magus · « **Reply #9811 on:** February 13, 2011, 12:38:39 PM »

Quote

Resonance of Fate actually has towns.

"and i can also wander trough something that almost look like a world map

"

Himu · « **Reply #9812 on:** February 13, 2011, 12:40:30 PM »

Quote from: magus on February 13, 2011, 10:12:34 AM

Quote
This is just pathetic trolling. Go back to your weaboo games

but why? what i want to say is that there are a lot of game that are as linear as FF13 yet it's okay for those but become AN HORRIBLE PROBLEM when it comes to FF13,i picked mass effect because it's the last game i'm playing that is highly regarded,i would happily have done the same with lost odyssey (well ok that doesn't count as highly regarded...) if i could find some maps of the game lying around.....

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also for you

did i do that again? i'm sorry $:-\$

Quote
6.) None of this changes how incredibly average FF 13 is. Nor will it change Westerns to suddenly love a game in the vein of FF13.

see if you think that FF13 is average because you didn't like the combat or you wanted to punch snow in the face,i have no problem with that but complaining that FF13 is too linear is like complaining that a game is "too classic" and then slap a 10 when dragon quest roll around,it's just stuuuuuuuuuuuuupid!

FF13 is too linear and makes no attempt at masking that linearity like every rpg ever.

Even Mass Effect is linear. But it hides this fact and makes it more fun for the player because we get to decide what order we visit locations in. This can even make the game slightly more challenging (go to Virmire FIRST, for instance and fight the boss, come back later).

FF13's take isn't even new. Vagrant Story and Breath of Fire 5 BOTH employed the battle after battle, tube syndrome that FF13 has. Even Xenosaga does. But Vagrant Story and BoF5 can be beaten in 15-20 hours. They never overstay their welcome, they have excellent pacing and enough dungeon/gameplay variety to keep the game from getting stale and the difficulty to back that shit up and have a heavy emphasis on replay value.

Xenosaga is very similar to FF13. Both send the player through cutscene after cutscene as you do dungeon after dungeon. You know where FF13 failed where Xenosaga succeeded? XS had actual game design. FF13 is just tube after tube. XS has puzzles and dungeons and sidequests that DON'T involve battle, battle, battle, cutscene. Xenosaga has things that allow you to change the variables of fights and even dungeons if you hit them with your blaster. Final Fantasy 13 has a broken encounter system that rarely ever takes advantage of enemy's jumping you or any element of surprise.

To be worse than even Xenosaga, a pretty solid above average jrpg, is outstanding.

You may not care about sidequests, world buildling, npcs, exploration, and everything else that lots of people identify with what makes an rpg and rpg, but you are a tiny, EXTREMELY small minority.

Himu · « **Reply #9813 on:** February 13, 2011, 12:45:21 PM »

Even Digital Devil Saga 1+2 are excellent comparisons to FF13, along with FF10, and all are VASTLY superior to FF13.

All DDS is a dungeon crawl. And yet it's a fucking GOOD dungeon crawl.

FF13 is the worst dungeon crawler I've ever played. The dungeons don't even have puzzles or traps. Pathetic.

Great Rumbler · « **Reply #9814 on:** February 13, 2011, 12:47:16 PM »

Quote from: magus on February 13, 2011, 12:38:39 PM

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Resonance of Fate actually has towns.

"and i can also wander trough something that almost look like a world map "

The complaints against FFXIII aren't that it doesn't have towns, they're not that it doesn't have huge, wide-open landscapes, they're not that it doesn't have NPCs to talk to, they're not that it doesn't have a ton of side-quests, those are merely symptoms of the real problems which is that FFXIII has exactly one pace and that pace is full-throttle for 30 hours. You're reward for crawling through a dungeon is a brand new dungeon crawl through, maybe a cutscene or two in-between.

Most people here really don't like that design choice.

Himu · « **Reply #9815 on:** February 13, 2011, 12:48:54 PM »

And it's not even a GOOD full throttle pace.

I'd rather just play the superior Breath of Fire 5.

magus · « **Reply #9816 on:** February 13, 2011, 12:56:50 PM »

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You're reward for crawling through a dungeon is a brand new dungeon crawl through, maybe a cutscene or two in-between.

and how that differs from resonance of fate and the other miriad of JRPG that exist? that's what piss me off!

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XS has puzzles and dungeons and sidequests that DON'T involve battle, battle, battle, cutscene. Xenosaga has things that allow you to change the variables of fights and even dungeons if you hit them with your blaster.

see? i don't personaly agree with himuro and to me XS and FF13 are designed the same way but that's a real complaint!

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Even Digital Devil Saga 1+2

yea! he's right! that's a good comparison i never tought off but nobody ever dared to say that "DDS is linear" and we are talking about a game that has pitfall that sends you back trough the dungeon!

if himuro tells me "DDS is linear but i like the combat while i hate FF13 combat" that's perfectly understandable to me but you don't see people going around saying that "your reward for finishing a dungeon in DDS is a cutscene or another dungeon"

Himu · « **Reply #9817 on:** February 13, 2011, 12:57:26 PM »

DDS is linear but the dungeons are amazing and I love the battle system 100000000x more than FF13.

DDS also doesn't limit me and stop me from doing things until 30 hours into the game. It does not coddle the player.

Great Rumbler · « **Reply #9818 on:** February 13, 2011, 12:58:49 PM »

Quote from: Stringer Bell on February 13, 2011, 12:48:54 PM

And it's not even a GOOD full throttle pace.

Part of the problem is length. It's way too long to support that kind of pacing. A 8-10 hour FPS or something wouldn't have a problem, but a 30 hour RPG is a different story. There's also the fact that there's never any shake up in the gameplay, no traps or puzzles or ways to avoid enemies, no branching paths that require exploration. There are ways to make a game like FFXIII work really well, but as it's currently constructed it just doesn't.

Quote

and how that differs from resonance of fate and the other miriad of JRPG that exist? that's what piss me off!

Change of pace is a nice reward. Places to discover and explore are nice rewards. RoF certainly has both of those things and FFXIII most certainly does not.

Certainly helps as well that RoF doesn't take itself too seriously most of the time and has a fun combat system.

Himu · « **Reply #9819 on:** February 13, 2011, 01:00:48 PM »

Even DDS is only 30 hours long per game!

And dungeons never overstay their welcome.

Great Rumbler · « **Reply #9820 on:** February 13, 2011, 01:04:00 PM »

FFXIII strips the RPG experience down to the bone. Magus doesn't mind that, maybe even LIKES that, but most people here are put off by that.

magus · « **Reply #9821 on:** February 13, 2011, 01:18:44 PM »

Quote

Places to discover and explore are nice rewards. RoF certainly has both of those things

there is one really short optional dungeon and it's after several hours of other dungeon and cutscene's,i never once tought that it "was a nice place to explore" or that "it changed pace" it was just there! so no...

Quote from: Stringer Bell on February 13, 2011, 01:00:48 PM

Even DDS is only 30 hours long per game!

And dungeons never overstay their welcome.

i tried playing DDS several time but i could never get into it,i never played more than the cinderella castle dungeon

Himu · « **Reply #9822 on:** February 13, 2011, 01:19:11 PM »

The castle is my favorite!

Smooth Groove · « **Reply #9823 on:** February 13, 2011, 02:27:12 PM »

Quote from: Stringer Bell on February 13, 2011, 12:32:02 PM

Quote from: Kosma on February 13, 2011, 07:57:32 AM
I thought we settled a long time ago that WRPG's are rpg's and JRPG's are strategy combat simulators.

Personally, I find the rpg'ing in most modern wrpgs to be lacking. My idea of an rpg is with depth and lots of sub-systems. jrpgs happen to fill that niche. Some (rarely) wrpgs scratch that itch too, such as Dragon Age. I don't care about "role-playing" or having my hand in the story, I care about tight design and numbers. When I role play in an rpg, I give the characters roles. I craft a story or image around that character and give them a gameplay role. I find that infinitely more interesting than making arbitrary choices in a story where ultimately my choices mean very little.

It's two different takes of the same whole. Doesn't mean jrpgs aren't rpgs.

That depth is mostly superficial though. Combat in almost every JRPG boils down to rock paper scissors (RPGS). There is little strategy once you figure out which is which. I prefer BG2 type of combat where placement and tactics still matter even after you've figured out an enemy's strengths and weaknesses. Also, none of your characters is ever completely useless, unlike RPS games like Persona 3 when a character goes against a polar opposite/nemesis.

Himu · « **Reply #9824 on:** February 13, 2011, 02:29:34 PM »

You act like there are no jrpgs where placement matters.

Play Valkyrie Profile 2 or Breath of Fire 5.

[youtube=560,345]1pdNw8tb2tc[/youtube]

In this game, you control a party as you trek through dangerous elements on the battlefield: traps, poisoned water, lava, maybe a pit, maybe there's a cliff and the winged boss can knock your party member off the mountain with one attack. You can even split your team up in to groups and force an enemy to follow one group while another goes around to form a pincer attack.

To say every jrpg has a rps combat system is asinine and shows your ignorance.

Smooth Groove · « **Reply #9825 on:** February 13, 2011, 02:35:08 PM »

I tried VP2 because MAF recommended it. The characters freak me out though so I stopped playing it. They reminded me of those porcelain dolls with soulful eyes that I used to hate as a kid.

Quote from: Stringer Bell on February 13, 2011, 02:29:34 PM

To say every jrpg has a rps combat system is asinine and shows your ignorance.

I said "almost", dummy, which is true.

Himu · « **Reply #9826 on:** February 13, 2011, 02:36:22 PM »

And what jrpgs are these?

It's certainly better than KOTOR system of click the attack button endlessly.

Smooth Groove · « **Reply #9827 on:** February 13, 2011, 02:38:00 PM »

Too many to list. Why don't you tell me the ones that aren't RPS?

Eel O'Brian · « **Reply #9828 on:** February 13, 2011, 02:40:24 PM »

played a bit more of the witcher

the writing is really decent, but i don't think i'll ever get into the timing-based combat (although i have gotten used to it)

Himu · « **Reply #9829 on:** February 13, 2011, 02:42:59 PM »

You'd consider P3 and SMT games RPS? I'd say it's RPS with a twist. You have weaknesses and you have to cover your ass. Same goes for the enemies. To me, that's just playing a game. You can cite BG, and I agree that BG has an amazing battle system, but that's like...the only wrpg I can think of aside from Dragon Age with an appealing system that emphasizes placement, preparation and tactics over making it a click fest.

I'd say most notable jrpgs play differently. I can't remember too many jrpgs where the element system is so prominent that it's like rps except SMT, and SMT does it in a very great way that stays continuously fresh.

I think the biggest case of RPS I've played in a jrpg is down to either Final Fantasy 10 or 13. 10 in particular is VERY rps and doesn't allow a lot of flexibility.

Smooth Groove · « **Reply #9830 on:** February 13, 2011, 02:49:47 PM »

I haven't played SMT yet but P3 definitely is way too RPS heavy. There were so many fights where a character became completely useless because its weakness was the enemy's strength. I know it can be alleviated with the proper gear but that's not until much later in the game.

Himu · « **Reply #9831 on:** February 13, 2011, 02:52:35 PM »

Then switch the character out and use a better team then.

That's how you play a GAME.

Himu · « **Reply #9832 on:** February 13, 2011, 03:34:08 PM »

The problem with that thinking is that you have a very narrow and close minded definition of role playing. Role playing can be still be role playing if the choices aren't tied to the story. It is very possible to roleplay through gameplay. And even then, you're are placing too much emphasis on the words "role playing".

I don't care about role playing in the story sense. Well, don't care isn't the truth because I LIKE choices, but it's certainly not the forefront of my love for rpgs.

I like crafting roles from scratch, through gameplay. Etrian Odyssey allows me to create characters from scatch and I can give that character a story if I WANTED to AND give them a class that represents that character's story. There. Role playing. "Choice" has nothing to do with it, and holds no pertinence in the grand definition of a role playing game.

Story is the last thing I care about. Well, I put story one notch above graphics in the tier of importance. It just isn't THAT important to me.

And on that note, how come almost every pro-wrpg game player has the imagination of a 100 year old with in a coma? They say they like choice, but ultimately just want stuff force fed to them.

Himu · « **Reply #9833 on:** February 13, 2011, 03:47:00 PM »

And jrpgs don't offer that? I'm not seeing the difference between Final Fantasy VI and Mass Effect 2 here. Both are linear. Both allow branching paths. Both have lots of quests. Both have hidden shit. Both emphasize recruiting your army to go to the final dungeon. Mass Effect 2 has like 8-9 characters, each with their own quest. Final Fantasy Vi has like 12-13 characters, each with their own quest, and at the end of the game about 7-8 of those are recruitable...OPTIONALLY. There are hidden dungeons, hidden villages, hidden everything. Because you can choose to kill the Rachni Queen or not doesn't make Mass Effect more of an rpg. Just a different KIND of rpg.

The role playing genre, is too diverse to say "well this isn't a rpg because I can't decide to kill this dude who will appear for 5 seconds after I'm done with this quest anyways". That's just dumb dumb.

Himu · « **Reply #9834 on:** February 13, 2011, 03:53:51 PM »

Quote from: Kosma on February 13, 2011, 03:42:34 PM

I don't understand what you are getting at, force fed what?

Force fed a story and "choices", force fed classes, force fed gameplay. I like to alter ALL of those things, not just one aspect, whereas with most wrpg fans (for the record I like both wrpg and jrpgs, which is half the reason I don't understand this stupid debate) always concentrate on the story aspects while ignoring other aspects.

They cite you have no choices in Final Fantasy games, meanwhile I'm making Basch learn berserk and auto-casting it on himself while I turn him into a meat tank just cuz I wanted to. Whereas, in their little feeble Mass Effect, they're always stuck with that pre-defined gameplay path once they've chosen it. The point being, it's a different kind of choice. Something they always fail to understand.

Hence my dig about no imagination.

It's like with people like you it's either this and not that, and most definitely not both. It has to be one specific thing, and this goes for both jrpg and wrpg fan camps.

Himu · « **Reply #9835 on:** February 13, 2011, 04:01:46 PM »

Quote from: Kosma on February 13, 2011, 03:51:39 PM

Well FFVI was pretty rad. But its like 15 years old. Sure you have back stories for you crew, but there is no real world to explore, no hundreds of side quests if I remember.

And ME2 is like the lightest of rpg's you take as an example.

But I thought this was about choice and decision making and exploration! Ya know..."role playing!" ME2 has these things! Surely it's an rpg [for the record, I don't think it is]! Many of your choices from the first game even carry over! If rpgs are about choice and role playing then surely Mass Effect 2 fits the bill.

So what is it that defines an rpg then? Role playing as defined by taking control of a character and giving them a sense of morality or developing a character through an aggregation of stat manipulation and character customization?

Because even games like Infamous allow you take control of a character and manipulate their sense of morality. Are those rpgs now, too?

This is why I find the "role playing" definition of rpgs, as in, literally, to be silly.

tiesto · « **Reply #9836 on:** February 13, 2011, 04:10:36 PM »

The most overrated thing in existence with american RPGs is the dialogue tree system. It's annoying constantly having to choose what the hell to say, I end up just picking the first option. Yet everybody is like "OMG DIALOGUE TREES! WRPGS THE BEST!!!!" Especially when you have "info dump" NPCs and you have to exhaust every dialogue option just to get new quests and shit. It really slows the pace of the games down.

Great Rumbler · « **Reply #9837 on:** February 13, 2011, 04:13:51 PM »

Quote from: tiesto on February 13, 2011, 04:10:36 PM

The most overrated thing in existence with american RPGs is the dialogue tree system. It's annoying constantly having to choose what the hell to say, I end up just picking the first option. Yet everybody is like "OMG DIALOGUE TREES! WRPGS THE BEST!!!!" Especially when you have "info dump" NPCs and you have to exhaust every dialogue option just to get new quests and shit. It really slows the pace of the games down.

dialog trees

iconoclast · « **Reply #9838 on:** February 13, 2011, 04:44:36 PM »

Just beat Dante's Inferno. OH MY GOD. This game is so much worse than I could have ever imagined. One of the biggest pieces of trash I've ever played - and without question the absolute worst action game I've ever played. Yes, X-Blades is better. DI takes EVERYTHING that's bad about God of War and cranks it up to 11. Enemies have at least 3x more health than they should have and the combat is the most shallow, mindless, mashy garbage I've ever seen. The only positives are the 60 fps and nice CG scenes.

2/10. Abysmal fucking game. Now to play it again.

demi · « **Reply #9839 on:** February 13, 2011, 04:50:29 PM »

And fat jiggly satan cock

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