Exercise/lifting tips?

[Kestastrophe]

I completely dropped crunches, didn't feel like it was worth the annoyance of the repetition, and I'm not convinced that it's good for your back. If I can get similar work out from compound lifts, then that's pretty sweet.

I always hated crunches too. I alternate 3x 30 second prone bridges and 3x12 reverse crunches per stronglifts program

[Cormacaroni]

Crunches are pretty much pointless due to the limited range of motion. Don't do them. Do unanchored sit-ups with an abmat, good mornings with a barbell or glute-ham developer sit-ups, in reverse order of potency.

Yes, heavy deadlifts and squats work your abs/core like crazy. What else is preventing your spine from snapping? This is what Crossfit refers to as "mid-line stabilization". Absolutely key to almost any kind of functional movement or sport.

Here's an example of how a Crossfit WOD combines both. This WOD requires crazy core strength.

[youtube=560,345]qjX7sqF0kFM[/youtube]

[Madrun Badrun]

Is eating before running a bad idea? 

[Cormacaroni]

Depends on how much you eat and how hard you run, I guess. There are no hard and fast rules. There are successful ultramarathoners who literally order and eat pizza while running. Other people puke if they have a sandwich before a light jog. Everyone's digestive system is different. For optimal performance, you should have something light about an hour before you exercise, but since we all have to live in the real world, I wouldn't let it prevent you from exercising.

[Loki]

I started lifting weights for basically* the first time about four months ago.  Started with only dumbells, recently got an EZ-curl barbell as well from a friend.  I use this for standing barbell curls, among other things.  I've noticed that it feels like I'm putting way too much stress on my shoulders during curls (and not because of my form - this is even during the initial few reps).  Is it possible that the grip width I'm using is too narrow for my frame, since I'm very broad and the bends in the bar are set in place?  Would this cause stress on the shoulders?  I feel like I need to move each arm out about 3-5" to be comfortable, but can't with the way the bar is constructed (i.e., if I move them out fully past the bends in the bar so I can get my hands fully flat, my grip will be too wide).  Is it better to just get a regular bar in this case? 

I initially thought the strain on my shoulders was due to the fact that I hadn't done barbell curls before (I've done dumbell and hammer curls, though), but now I'm not so sure.

* I say "basically" because I lifted for about two months a few years ago, but aside from that not at all.

[Cormacaroni]

Nothing wrong with using a regular bar. Although they're about twice as heavy. Nothing wrong with that either. Then again, the reason it feels like too much stress is often just because there is too much weight on the bar.

Curls are not a great exercise though. They're not awful but there are many more productive things you could be doing.

FWIW, I have a curl bar too...haven't used it in years except for the occasional workout where I need a 2nd bar handy. They suck for doing anything other than curls. The only reason I got it was because I knew a full-length Olympic bar would be a pain in the ass to store. (it is, but it's so massively useful it's worth it).

In short, get a regular powerlifting or Oly bar (they're dirt cheap, especially 2nd hand on craigslist etc) and a bunch of plates, do your deadlifts, squats, presses, cleans, jerks and snatches and THEN if you still think you need to do curls, do some pull-ups and chin-ups instead. If for some reason all of that isn't getting it done, worry about whether your form is right on the curls.

[Loki]

Well, I definitely don't think it's the weight (I'm only doing 85-90% of my dumbell curl weight x 2 when I do barbell curls, and the discomfort happens during the first few reps when I'm at my strongest).  It definitely feels like something is "off", like perhaps there's too much torque being generated on my outer/rear shoulders during the motion; I was wondering if, mechanically, too narrow a grip for my particular shoulder width would cause this.  I realize there can be muscle imbalances etc. that could contribute, but I don't think that's it based on the way it feels (though I'm hardly qualified to say so authoritatively).

Thanks for the other advice, btw.  I'll try to mix things up like you've described.

[Cormacaroni]

Most people lift less with dumbells, not the other way round (the bar is much more stable, which makes it easier to lift more). Something sounds wrong here. Your grip may well be too narrow. Like I said, there's absolutely nothing wrong with using a regular bar. You can use as wide a grip as you like. You don't need to buy a bar - just pick one up in the gym and try a few curls. In fact, the best way to do these is with dumbells, even if you use less weight. Dumbells are awesome.

But of course, I still recommend doing the big compound exercises over all this isolation stuff. All these routines are adapted from serious bodybuilding routines, but they are totally unsuited to most average gym goers. You need to do the bread-and-butter compound lifts to get strong first before worrying about how beautifully defined the peak of your bicep is, IM not-so-humble O.

[Loki]

Most people lift less with dumbells, not the other way round (the bar is much more stable, which makes it easier to lift more). Something sounds wrong here. Your grip may well be too narrow. Like I said, there's absolutely nothing wrong with using a regular bar. You can use as wide a grip as you like. You don't need to buy a bar - just pick one up in the gym and try a few curls. In fact, the best way to do these is with dumbells, even if you use less weight. Dumbells are awesome.

I do incorporate dumbell curls into my current routine (8-10 reps each of: 2-3 sets of standing dumbell curls, 2-3 sets of seated dumbell concentration curls, 2-3 sets of barbell curls, and 2-3 sets of hammer curls; I vary the order of the exercises each week).  I'm gonna try a few curls with my friend's bar when I'm over there and see how it feels.

But of course, I still recommend doing the big compound exercises over all this isolation stuff. All these routines are adapted from serious bodybuilding routines, but they are totally unsuited to most average gym goers. You need to do the bread-and-butter compound lifts to get strong first before worrying about how beautifully defined the peak of your bicep is, IM not-so-humble O.

Yeah, I should start doing this.  I'll probably buy a bar soon and try those other exercises.

[Kestastrophe]

I do incorporate dumbell curls into my current routine (8-10 reps each of: 2-3 sets of standing dumbell curls, 2-3 sets of seated dumbell concentration curls, 2-3 sets of barbell curls, and 2-3 sets of hammer curls; I vary the order of the exercises each week).

Damn, that's alot of curls. I don't curl at all, instead I do chin-ups and inverted rows as my primary bicep exercise. I would replace all of those curls with different compound lifts, like Cormac described.

[duckman2000]

I think I may have plateaued a bit here with the deadlifts, I may have rushed progress a bit too fast. What's the best way to deal with that? I'm thinking of dropping 20-40lbs off of the weight and increase reps for a while instead, and continue up from there. Is that wise?

[Cormacaroni]

duckman -

This is not for the faint of heart but it bust me through a major wall in the deadlift. Easily applicable to squats etc as well.

Day 1 - warm-up lifts (anything less than 80% or so of your max counts as a warm-up here), then about 90-95% of your 1 rep maximum for 1

Day 2 - warm-ups, then 3 reps of the last weight

Day 3 - warm-ups, 5 reps of the last weight

Day 4 - warm-ups, add 5lbs to the 5 rep weight, and do 3 reps

Day 5 - warm-ups, add 5lbs to the 3 rep weight, and do 1 rep

Day 6 - warm-ups, 3 reps of last weight

The pattern should be obvious so I'll stop there. 1-3-5-3 (+5lbs) -1 (+5lbs)-3-5

With the deadlift, you really don't want to do much more than 3 sessions a week if you're pulling close to your max each time. Anything more will be counterproductive. You might find 2.5lbs is more than enough of an increase as well. If you can't make the reps on any given day, either try with less weight, or take a couple of days total rest, then try again.

Also, any time you plateau, it's worth looking at your form again. There's almost always something you can tighten up that will make a difference. Try using the alternate grip for the heaviest sets (see my video a few pages back). Try the hook grip (with the thumb hooked under your forefinger - it's very painful at first with a heavy bar, and you may well bruise the crap out of your thumb but it's incredibly strong).

And of course, rest and nutrition are also going to be reasons for plateauing at some point. Hard for me to say what's going on with you. Simply changing what you do in the gym isn't always enough.

Don't skip the warm-ups - it's essential for proper motor neuron recruitment. Your body needs to get used to the idea that it's going to have to bring everything to bear on that bar before you move to a new PR.

[Kestastrophe]

I just got back from my physical with the doctor. I lost 8 lbs over the last month (down to 224 now) , and I didn't have to sacrifice lifting gains . Major thanks to Cormac, since I pretty much did exactly what he told me. Eggs for breakfast, eat every three hours, cut out starchy carbs pretty much completely, followed my workout regimen of lifting 3 days a week with 2 days of jogging. I still have to lose 16-20 lbs, but its a good start. Cheers

[FlameOfCallandor]

Awesome. Do you only jog some days or do you job and lift those days?

[Kestastrophe]

My wife drops me off at the University gym 3 times a week at 7:30 in the morning. I jog home from the gym 2 of those days, right after my lifts (usually monday and friday).

[Himu]

Had an AWESOME time at the gym today. I'm going to start lifting. Now that I've got some decent upper body strength I'm aiming for a well toned body with weights!

[Cormacaroni]

Awesome work, Kestastrophe!

This stuff is 1% knowledge and 99% dedication, so I'm not going to take any credit. Makes me smile from ear to ear though 

[Madrun Badrun]

jogged for 70min yesterday, and competed week two of the 200sit up routine.  w00t

spoiler (click to show/hide)

100 push ups not so much  :'( :'( :'(

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[Himu]

Arvie

How should I get myself toned? I go to the gym 3 times a week. I want my whole body to be toned so I guess I'll work on upper body on day and lower body the next time and keep switching.

Should I jog on days I lift or should I do that on their own day?

[archie4208]

I just finished doing 45 minutes of jogging.    I had my cheat meal yesterday and I still feel pretty terrible, though.  I have a set of questions if anyone is willing to give advice:

Does anyone do HIIT?  I started that this week and I'm doing a 1:3 split (30 secs sprinting, 90 secs resting) with 6 sets.  I've only done it twice and I felt like I was going to die both times.  I was wondering how long I should do my current routine until I graduate to a 1:2 split and so forth.

Also, can anyone suggest a good beginner weightlifting routine to help me get back into the swing of things?  I've been lazy as fuck for the past few months and need to start from square one.  Right now I am thinking about HIIT 3 days a week (MWF) and lifting 3 days a week (Tu,Th,Sa) with accompanying low intensity cardio (30-45 minutes) on the non HIIT days.

[Madrun Badrun]

Arvie

How should I get myself toned? I go to the gym 3 times a week. I want my whole body to be toned so I guess I'll work on upper body on day and lower body the next time and keep switching.

Should I jog on days I lift or should I do that on their own day?

http://www.twohundredsitups.com/week1.html

this is doing wonders for my abs and it's only been two weeks. (I'm doing it every day though, sometimes twice a day)

[Kestastrophe]

Also, can anyone suggest a good beginner weightlifting routine to help me get back into the swing of things?  I've been lazy as fuck for the past few months and need to start from square one.

Stonglifts or Starting Strength are supposed to be the best beginner programs.

http://stronglifts.com/stronglifts-5x5-beginner-strength-training-program/

[archie4208]

Awesome link, that is exactly what I was looking for.  Thanks alot.  I've been spending the past few weeks reading articles at bodybuilding.com and other fitness forums and there is so much contradicting stuff out there it makes my head spin.

[Cormacaroni]

I just finished doing 45 minutes of jogging.    I had my cheat meal yesterday and I still feel pretty terrible, though.  I have a set of questions if anyone is willing to give advice:

Does anyone do HIIT?  I started that this week and I'm doing a 1:3 split (30 secs sprinting, 90 secs resting) with 6 sets.  I've only done it twice and I felt like I was going to die both times.  I was wondering how long I should do my current routine until I graduate to a 1:2 split and so forth.

Also, can anyone suggest a good beginner weightlifting routine to help me get back into the swing of things?  I've been lazy as fuck for the past few months and need to start from square one.  Right now I am thinking about HIIT 3 days a week (MWF) and lifting 3 days a week (Tu,Th,Sa) with accompanying low intensity cardio (30-45 minutes) on the non HIIT days.

I'd just be repeating myself at this point if I tried to answer all your questions. If you look back through my posts in this thread, you'll find all my thoughts about "toning", HIIT, "low intensity cardio", diet and beginner weightlifting programs.

[BlueTsunami]

I'm trying to start up HIIT again (after a good 2 months of jogging) and man, it kicks your ass so much.

[Kestastrophe]

I'd just be repeating myself at this point if I tried to answer all your questions. If you look back through my posts in this thread, you'll find all my thoughts about "toning", HIIT, "low intensity cardio", diet and beginner weightlifting programs.

lol

Cormac

[Cormacaroni]

my initial response was "Just fucking do Crossfit"

I mean, I could go through all the reasons why all those different programs don't make sense mashed together but if you have goals as diverse (i.e. no real specific goals at all) as Archie seemingly does....just do Crossfit. It works. You get stronger, leaner, FITTER, fast.

[Madrun Badrun]

fuck the jump from day1 to day2 in week three for the 200 sit ups is insane!

day1

21
27
21
21
30

day2

30
38
23
23
38

fuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuu

[duckman2000]

I still don't understand that plan. It reads like a fitness plan for cheerleaders or something, I don't know. What's the goal?

[Madrun Badrun]

getting a nice belly? 

spoiler (click to show/hide)

200 consecutive sit ups in 6 weeks

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[duckman2000]

Right, but is there anything else to go with it, like compound exercises, other calisthenics? Or are you just focusing on your belly? I'm not one to second guess whatever works for others, but it seems incredibly focused.

[Madrun Badrun]

No, this and running just generally makes me feel better and more focused when it comes to school.  Plus I got fat in the summer and had to loss that weight again.

[duckman2000]

Alright, I also forgot about the push up and running thing from the previous page, so that makes more sense.

On the topic, I'm trying to push for us building a proper obstacle course near our paintball park. Other than being part of event packages, I'd like to build it so that a single run makes for a thorough, heavy duty work out. Should be interesting, any ideas? Ladders and beams are obviously in, as are crawling elements, but I'd like something special too.

[Bildi]

I was just looking at this obstacle course - . 

http://amazingstufftome.blogspot.com/2007/04/from-japanese-show-ninja-warrior.html

I was thinking of something similar to the activity at 3:28 but more accessible and easy to construct, like two parallel log rails that get closer and further apart, move up and down, and have gaps here and there.  You have to put your hands on one and feet on the other.  Could be a great core strength workout.  You could build one rail a little higher on average than the other which would vary the workout on your arms and shoulders particularly depending on whether you put your arms on the higher or lower rail.  Could use multiple rails and/or painted position markings to accommodate various fitness levels.

They could also double as a pair of balancing beams to walk on but with ups, downs, turns and gaps to make things more interesting.

[Cormacaroni]

Alright, I also forgot about the push up and running thing from the previous page, so that makes more sense.

On the topic, I'm trying to push for us building a proper obstacle course near our paintball park. Other than being part of event packages, I'd like to build it so that a single run makes for a thorough, heavy duty work out. Should be interesting, any ideas? Ladders and beams are obviously in, as are crawling elements, but I'd like something special too.

Rope climbs. Bear crawls. Broad jumps. Hand-to-hand swings. Carrying any heavy, odd-shaped objects near to hand (rocks!).

[Madrun Badrun]

shit I almost did day 2 of week three in the first try.  Only 18 short.  I can't believe how much stronger I've gotten in just three weeks. 

[Kestastrophe]

I've scaled back my weight to focus on technique. I was squatting 210lbs, but I noticed my form breaking down. I think that I was bending too much at the hip when I squatted down or perhaps too quickly, which caused a delay in back straightening on the squat up. Basically, my legs would straighten first and then my upper body would follow, instead of it being one fluid movement. It was disjointed and almost like my upper and lower body weren't working in unison. I was getting up there in weight, so its kind of humbling to scale back.

[Tauntaun]

Alright, I also forgot about the push up and running thing from the previous page, so that makes more sense.

On the topic, I'm trying to push for us building a proper obstacle course near our paintball park. Other than being part of event packages, I'd like to build it so that a single run makes for a thorough, heavy duty work out. Should be interesting, any ideas? Ladders and beams are obviously in, as are crawling elements, but I'd like something special too.

Build an obstacle course, get a huge gay dude just out of prison to chase people.   

It's sort of a win/win situation.

spoiler (click to show/hide)

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[Cormacaroni]

I've scaled back my weight to focus on technique. I was squatting 210lbs, but I noticed my form breaking down. I think that I was bending too much at the hip when I squatted down or perhaps too quickly, which caused a delay in back straightening on the squat up. Basically, my legs would straighten first and then my upper body would follow, instead of it being one fluid movement. It was disjointed and almost like my upper and lower body weren't working in unison. I was getting up there in weight, so its kind of humbling to scale back.

The main cue to fix this is "Chest up!". Get your wife or somebody to yell this at you when you're in the hole!

[Draft]

I've scaled back my weight to focus on technique. I was squatting 210lbs, but I noticed my form breaking down. I think that I was bending too much at the hip when I squatted down or perhaps too quickly, which caused a delay in back straightening on the squat up. Basically, my legs would straighten first and then my upper body would follow, instead of it being one fluid movement. It was disjointed and almost like my upper and lower body weren't working in unison. I was getting up there in weight, so its kind of humbling to scale back.

Hardest thing about squats, for me, by far.

By far.

[Olivia Wilde Homo]

Squats are the best because you get to have the "rape spot." 

[Cormacaroni]

Draft - doing some heavy good mornings might help you keep the core tight on the way out of the hole. Again, the "chest up!" cue usually works wonders. Also think "tight core" (all the way through the movement).

(this is nothing you won't find in SS of course...just a reminder)

[Loki]

Ok, if anyone has a few minutes to spare, can you provide me with a good overall routine assuming that:

1) I only want to do weight training two days/week, with at least 3 days of rest in between the second session of one week and the first session of the next.

2) Right now I only have access to dumbells, a chin up bar, and an EZ-curl barbell (I'm wiling to buy a flat barbell).


I'm looking on getting into compound exercises, so a routine that includes squats, deadlifts, bent over rows etc. would be good, as would compound body weight exercises (I already do pushups).  Note that if you feel that condition #1 can't be met if I'm to maintain an effective program, I am open to other schedules (e.g., 3x a week).  Basically I want a routine that incorporates compound exercises (both with weights and body weight) that will also not conflict in terms of overworking certain muscles without adequate rest in between.  I'm basically unsure if doing, say, squats one day and deadlifts the next day or two days later will result in overworking certain muscle groups.  Ditto for other exercises. 

[Cormacaroni]

"overworking certain muscle groups" is the whole point of weight training. seriously. You get fitter and stronger by stressing your body beyond what it's currently capable of.

World-class bodybuilders and athletes have to worry about overtraining specific muscles; if you don't even have a routine, you are not at that point yet. Don't sweat it.

It'll take more than a few minutes to design a whole routine for you for anybody but i don't believe in routines anyway. Why not do something different every single workout? Do 5 heavy deadlifts one day, do 100 light deadlifts the next. Do 10 sets of as many pull-ups as you can one day, then do 7 weighted pull-ups the next. Or do 5 sets of 10 deadlifts followed by 10 pull-ups, for time. Do 10 dumbell thrusters, then a set of max push-ups, and repeat by 7, then run a mile. Mix and match in as many combinations as you can imagine. Force your body to adapt continuously by giving it constantly varied stimuli.

[Draft]

Draft - doing some heavy good mornings might help you keep the core tight on the way out of the hole. Again, the "chest up!" cue usually works wonders. Also think "tight core" (all the way through the movement).

(this is nothing you won't find in SS of course...just a reminder)

I need to do something, for sure. I've stepped up the hypers and sit up assistance exercises to every day, but I still feel really weak around the middle. I think I will add some good mornings, just need to figure out where to put them in the week.

[Kestastrophe]

I'm basically unsure if doing, say, squats one day and deadlifts the next day or two days later will result in overworking certain muscle groups.  Ditto for other exercises. 

I don't think you can really overwork your muscles like this. I squat every single workout day (3x a week) and deadlift every other workout day (1-2x a week). You will be very sore at first, but you quickly get used to it.

I think I might incorporate good mornings to help my squats as well, Cormac. How much weight should I be using or will an empty bar suffice?

[Loki]

"overworking certain muscle groups" is the whole point of weight training. seriously. You get fitter and stronger by stressing your body beyond what it's currently capable of.

No offense, but DUH.   I meant in the same sense that you're not supposed to work your bis or tris two consecutive days (i.e., you need rest to allow the muscles to heal/grow).

It'll take more than a few minutes to design a whole routine for you for anybody but i don't believe in routines anyway. Why not do something different every single workout? Do 5 heavy deadlifts one day, do 100 light deadlifts the next. Do 10 sets of as many pull-ups as you can one day, then do 7 weighted pull-ups the next. Or do 5 sets of 10 deadlifts followed by 10 pull-ups, for time. Do 10 dumbell thrusters, then a set of max push-ups, and repeat by 7, then run a mile. Mix and match in as many combinations as you can imagine. Force your body to adapt continuously by giving it constantly varied stimuli.

I could do that, yes.  But the reason that I wanted to stick to a specific rest schedule was because I noticed that I started seeing better results when I cut my lifting from 4x per week to 2x per week, with at least 4 days of rest between weeks.  So I figured that, for me, rest is pretty important to making gains, both performance and appearance wise.

[Cormacaroni]

resting bis and tris 

Like I said, that's relevant if you're a world-class bodybuilder and working out with isolation exercises for 4hrs a day with massive weights. You're not. Rest is key to making gains but most people totally overestimate how much stress they're putting on themselves because they feel a little pain or soreness the next day. Now sit back and pay attention, you might learn something.

[Cormacaroni]

I'm basically unsure if doing, say, squats one day and deadlifts the next day or two days later will result in overworking certain muscle groups.  Ditto for other exercises. 

I don't think you can really overwork your muscles like this. I squat every single workout day (3x a week) and deadlift every other workout day (1-2x a week). You will be very sore at first, but you quickly get used to it.

I think I might incorporate good mornings to help my squats as well, Cormac. How much weight should I be using or will an empty bar suffice?

An empty bar is plenty to start with - i did about 50 with a 40kg bar recently and it destroyed me. One of the few workouts I had to quit on halfway through. As you get used to them, you can up the weight and lower the reps but expect some serious hamstring soreness afterward. It's a very effective hamstring stretch if you do it with the full ROM but it's sneaky - you may not realize at the time how much pain you are inflicting on the hammies.

You also might want to look into box squats, but my sense is it's still too early for you to be messing with that stuff. Squat technique and eating should be your main concerns at this stage.

[Loki]

resting bis and tris 

Like I said, that's relevant if you're a world-class bodybuilder and working out with isolation exercises for 4hrs a day with massive weights. You're not. Rest is key to making gains but most people totally overestimate how much stress they're putting on themselves because they feel a little pain or soreness the next day. Now sit back and pay attention, you might learn something.

So you're saying that if I do, say, squats, deadlifts, and bent over rows one day, I can do them again the next day?  I guess I'm not following...

Obviously isolation exercises are more taxing on particular muscles, but these compound exercises have to be stressing SOMETHING (multiple somethings, in fact) - and doesn't that something need time to recover?

[Draft]

resting bis and tris 

Like I said, that's relevant if you're a world-class bodybuilder and working out with isolation exercises for 4hrs a day with massive weights. You're not. Rest is key to making gains but most people totally overestimate how much stress they're putting on themselves because they feel a little pain or soreness the next day. Now sit back and pay attention, you might learn something.

So you're saying that if I do, say, squats, deadlifts, and bent over rows one day, I can do them again the next day?  I guess I'm not following...

Obviously isolation exercises are more taxing on particular muscles, but these compound exercises have to be stressing SOMETHING (multiple somethings, in fact) - and doesn't that something need time to recover?

What he's saying is that for the first few weeks lifting you won't be able to work hard enough to really need lots of recovery time. You'll be sore, but that's the same as being gassed.

Rule of thumb: until you're pressing or pulling your own body weight or more, a day of recovery is fine. Probably more than you need.

[APF]

Recovery times are variable between people and dependent on volume of work and intensity of weight, so it's hard to say it's either necessary or inefficient to do something 1x/2x/3x a week. Generally when you're getting into an exercise program the first 4-6 weeks you're more adjusting to the workouts than building appreciable muscle; people therefore try to compensate by increasing frequency in an attempt to reduce that adjustment period (eg, full-body workouts 3-4x/week). At the same time, high level athletes train with very high levels of frequency so it's not as though there aren't benefits to doing so. But what works for someone whose very life is focused around optimizing their training is completely different than what works for someone who has a real life to lead.

There are other factors too: for example, the point about isolation exercises are more taxing on a specific muscle is true to an extent, but muscular recovery is relatively quick (eg 24-36 hours) in comparison to neural effects--which can last for weeks, depending--and can be cumulative. The overall stress of doing a bicep curl is far less than that in doing intense deadlifts, and that overall stress influences recovery far more.

[duckman2000]

I noticed serious performance gains after holding off on lifting for a few days longer than usual. It wasn't planned, but I was a bit surprised when the next session was as smooth as it was. I guess the trick is to switch it up.

[APF]

Wow, I made some serious typos there

[Cormacaroni]

I noticed serious performance gains after holding off on lifting for a few days longer than usual. It wasn't planned, but I was a bit surprised when the next session was as smooth as it was. I guess the trick is to switch it up.

There should be a micro-recovery plan, and a macro-recovery plan. i.e. plan rest days during the week, and also plan for entire rest weeks. But the amount of individual variation here is so great that it makes little sense to prescribe over the internet without knowing someone's exact tolerances, history and goals to a pretty fine degree. The standard Crossfit prescription is 3 days on, 1 day off, with a "half week" every 6 weeks or so, with an entire week off more infrequently (when progress stalls, typically...but it's much more likely that illness or minor injuries or general life bullshit will force this upon you long before it's planned...i've never actually had a rest week as scheduled in over 2yrs).

And yes, Crossfit will have you working the same muscles on consecutive days. That's what muscles are supposed to do, work. To build on what Draft is saying, it's only maximal effort at low reps on the big compound lifts that you really need lots of recovery from. I'd also endorse everything APF is saying as well, and add that in the beginner phase you're seeing a lot more neurological fatigue and adaptation than actual muscle damage/growth. That's where newbies will burn out quickly, and why you need to rest. Not because your "bis are still thrashed from those preacher curls last Tuesday".

[Loki]

Recovery times are variable between people and dependent on volume of work and intensity of weight, so it's hard to say it's either necessary or inefficient to do something 1x/2x/3x a week. Generally when you're getting into an exercise program the first 4-6 weeks you're more adjusting to the workouts than building appreciable muscle; people therefore try to compensate by increasing frequency in an attempt to reduce that adjustment period (eg, full-body workouts 3-4x/week). At the same time, high level athletes train with very high levels of frequency so it's not as though there aren't benefits to doing so. But what works for someone whose very life is focused around optimizing their training is completely different than what works for someone who has a real life to lead.

There are other factors too: for example, the point about isolation exercises are more taxing on a specific muscle is true to an extent, but muscular recovery is relatively quick (eg 24-36 hours) in comparison to neural effects--which can last for weeks, depending--and can be cumulative. The overall stress of doing a bicep curl is far less than that in doing intense deadlifts, and that overall stress influences recovery far more.

Thanks for the detailed explanation.

[Loki]

There should be a micro-recovery plan, and a macro-recovery plan. i.e. plan rest days during the week, and also plan for entire rest weeks. But the amount of individual variation here is so great that it makes little sense to prescribe over the internet without knowing someone's exact tolerances, history and goals to a pretty fine degree. The standard Crossfit prescription is 3 days on, 1 day off, with a "half week" every 6 weeks or so, with an entire week off more infrequently (when progress stalls, typically...but it's much more likely that illness or minor injuries or general life bullshit will force this upon you long before it's planned...i've never actually had a rest week as scheduled in over 2yrs).

And yes, Crossfit will have you working the same muscles on consecutive days. That's what muscles are supposed to do, work. To build on what Draft is saying, it's only maximal effort at low reps on the big compound lifts that you really need lots of recovery from. I'd also endorse everything APF is saying as well, and add that in the beginner phase you're seeing a lot more neurological fatigue and adaptation than actual muscle damage/growth. That's where newbies will burn out quickly, and why you need to rest. Not because your "bis are still thrashed from those preacher curls last Tuesday".

Thanks.  I assume neurological adaptation is not something one can speed up aside from performing said exercises more frequently? (or would that actually be counterproductive?)

[duckman2000]

Just mask it with narcotics

[Cormacaroni]

There should be a micro-recovery plan, and a macro-recovery plan. i.e. plan rest days during the week, and also plan for entire rest weeks. But the amount of individual variation here is so great that it makes little sense to prescribe over the internet without knowing someone's exact tolerances, history and goals to a pretty fine degree. The standard Crossfit prescription is 3 days on, 1 day off, with a "half week" every 6 weeks or so, with an entire week off more infrequently (when progress stalls, typically...but it's much more likely that illness or minor injuries or general life bullshit will force this upon you long before it's planned...i've never actually had a rest week as scheduled in over 2yrs).

And yes, Crossfit will have you working the same muscles on consecutive days. That's what muscles are supposed to do, work. To build on what Draft is saying, it's only maximal effort at low reps on the big compound lifts that you really need lots of recovery from. I'd also endorse everything APF is saying as well, and add that in the beginner phase you're seeing a lot more neurological fatigue and adaptation than actual muscle damage/growth. That's where newbies will burn out quickly, and why you need to rest. Not because your "bis are still thrashed from those preacher curls last Tuesday".

Thanks.  I assume neurological adaptation is not something one can speed up aside from performing said exercises more frequently? (or would that actually be counterproductive?)

To a certain degree, more frequently is productive. After that, it's counter-productive. This is why coaching is as much art as science. I'm not talking about technique here, which can be improved most easily with more practice. I'm talking about training your body to use every fiber of muscle it can to lift very heavy weights. It takes time to get your nervous system to actually do this, barring extraordinary external stimuli (kid trapped under burning car etc). It's not something you should rush, unless you have some pressing goals we haven't heard about yet.

[Kestastrophe]

Question for Cormac: I picked up some unadultered peanut butter (i.e. contains only peanuts) at the store this week. I remember you recommended I eat more fat, so I was wondering if this will be a good addition to my diet.