After being in denial for some time, I've come to a realization: I'm agnostic

[Himu]

And I've been in denial since I was 11 years old.

In the black community in America, Christianity is a huge thing. It's not just a religion, it's also the backbone of the social fabric of the community. Especially in places like Texas.

But when I was in 6th grade English class, we were reading Greek Mythology and I came to the conclusion that it was all bollocks; I couldn't see the difference between the Christian faith - or any faith really - and the Greek mythos we were reading. How come stories of a talking bush that was one fire were followed and accepted willingly but folks couldn't accept that Zeus went down to Earth and impregnated any attractive woman he could find?

But I couldn't accept it. No way was I going to tell my true feelings to my friends or family or church on religion and Christianity in particular. No way. "I believe in God, dammit." I said to myself. "Just, you know, not that God. But I believe in a God!"

This led to a complete obsession with mythology, philosohpy and religious text which brought me to Islam.

If I were religious in any way, Islam would be the first religion I'd prescribe to as many of its beliefs fit me: allowing intellectual discourse on the religion and encouraging such, not being based around the worship of a man who "rises from the dead" but the actual entity we know as God; a one on one relationship.

My parents knew I wasn't religious or particularly an ardent Christian, but I could never tell them - or rather, my mother...my father is quite an open minded individual - how I truly felt, especially since my own mother once asked me if I worshiped the devil once before. I had to have a faith. It wasn't going to be Christianity because I don't agree with any of it, but I had to have a faith.

All the other black people I know have one.

Me: Hey Felicia, you ever think sometimes you just don't believe in a God?
Felicia: Never. You'll go to hell if you think like that Garrett!

So I converted to Islam. I have prayed in Arabic, not eaten pork or gotten drunk or smoked reefer for a good one to two years. I truly felt what I was doing was right, I believed in God, dammit.

But I've been lying to myself. It was around Ramadan last month that I came to this conclusion.

Is there a God? I don't fucking know. I have never seen evidence that have supported it, although I told myself he does exist. Hoping, wishing. However, I can't say he doesn't exist either, because there's so much more to this galaxy and universe and planet than I could ever comprehend.

Do I believe in a God? Not the personal God, no. A God who is able to understand every person's thoughts? A God a who is not willing to show himself to his supporters? A God who thrives on a reward and punishment system? A God who allows millions of people to be killed for the sole fact that they're either jewish, gay, gypsies and more?

I don't know about that.

But I do believe that there's more to this world than meets the eye. This is what I got from my experience with Islam; I feel at peace when I pray. Likely not with a God, but with something else I can't explain. It makes me feel spiritual. I just can't prove or disproof it, so I will revel in it and remain neutral.

It's time to start being honest with myself. This has made me depressed for the past month and it's time accept it, swallow it and declare it.

What do I have to fear, aside from further being an outcast in the Black American community? But fuck it, that's better than lying to myself. I refuse to do it anymore.

[Human Snorenado]

tl;dr

My takeaway- you wanted to drink and eat bacon.

[Himu]

My mother will feed me to the dogs.

tl;dr

My takeaway- you wanted to drink and eat bacon.

Naw, that's not the case.

[Flannel Boy]

Bacon poutine. 

[Human Snorenado]

I dunno why it has to be a big deal.  Anyway, you should read up on Buddhism (I've thought that ever since you went on your spiritual walk in the park) since you can totally be agnostic and be a Buddhist.  But maybe you're at a point in your life where you just don't want to buy into any "isms" which is totally understandable and respectable imo.

[Mr. Gundam]

That's great that you figured it out. Just be cool and don't make a big deal about it and you'll be fine with your family.

[Himu]

If you dont believe in God, there is actually less to fear and more to enjoy.

Are you sure about that?

[Phoenix Dark]

My mother will feed me to the dogs.

pork

Despite my trolls I'm agnostic as well. I don't remember the last time I cared about religion. It's something that still surrounds me, considering my family - I'm going to bible class tomorrow. But I just can't compel myself to believe in a book re-written for hundreds of years. Is there a god? I think it's more than likely. But I seriously doubt he's the one I prayed to in my early life, or that Himu prayed to a few months ago. smh

[cool breeze]

wouldn't it be easier to stay muslim and just be bad at it?

[Raban]

I dunno why it has to be a big deal.  Anyway, you should read up on Buddhism (I've thought that ever since you went on your spiritual walk in the park) since you can totally be agnostic and be a Buddhist.  But maybe you're at a point in your life where you just don't want to buy into any "isms" which is totally understandable and respectable imo.

Buddhism is the only religion I've ever been interested in. I need to read up on it. Seriously the best religion there is.

[Flannel Boy]

Being the best religion is the equivalent of being the Mets' MVP.

[Tieno]

God damn it, that's what you get when Jinfash is your promotor. He really is the world's most terrible terrorist.

[Raban]

Being the best religion is the equivalent of being the Mets' MVP.

Nvm Buddhism is just as stupid as other religions. Why does every goddamn religion has something against sexual activity and taking drugs? That's life, man. I'm not a pothead or a sex fiend (lol) or anything, but what the hell does God have against that kind of thing?

[Phoenix Dark]

Being the best religion is the equivalent of being the Mets' MVP.

Nvm Buddhism is just as stupid as other religions. Why does every goddamn religion has something against sexual activity and taking drugs? That's life, man. I'm not a pothead or a sex fiend (lol) or anything, but what the hell does God have against that kind of thing?

I know right. Malek would fit right in, dunno why he's so anti-religion

[Barry Egan]

congrats Himu, you little sinner you!

[bork]

Being the best religion is the equivalent of being the Mets' MVP.

Nvm Buddhism is just as stupid as other religions. Why does every goddamn religion has something against sexual activity and taking drugs? That's life, man. I'm not a pothead or a sex fiend (lol) or anything, but what the hell does God have against that kind of thing?

Because "God" (I.E., the man) has more control over you when follow "his" strict teachings.  

Yes, sexual activity is wrong and A HORRIBLE, AWFUL THING.  But killing in "the lord's name," causing mass violence and misery?  Imposing your will and beliefs on others?  A-OK!

Religion made a lot more sense hundreds of years ago, when people didn't know how things worked and couldn't come up with a logical explanation for anything.  It's also a way to control the population.  Pig meat making people sick?  Let's tell 'em the man in the sky says it's bad for you!

I got no problem with people who have religious beliefs, though.  Just don't try and convert me and don't talk to me about it. 

[Positive Touch]

the social stigma really is the worst.  i still can only give out evasive answers when someone asks me about faith because i dont want to deal with all the put-downs and questions and just the general feeling of disgust/pity that a lot of religious people have towards atheists/agnostics.  "BU BU BU WHY DON'T YOU JUST GROW A PAIR AND TELL THEM?!"   Because i'd rather not have my friends, coworkers and family look down on me just to make a stand on something i really don't give a shit about.

[drew]

i simple dont care enough to spend the time to come to a religious consensus

[Mr. Gundam]

the social stigma really is the worst.  i still can only give out evasive answers when someone asks me about faith because i dont want to deal with all the put-downs and questions and just the general feeling of disgust/pity that a lot of religious people have towards atheists/agnostics.  "BU BU BU WHY DON'T YOU JUST GROW A PAIR AND TELL THEM?!"   Because i'd rather not have my friends, coworkers and family look down on me just to make a stand on something i really don't give a shit about.

Religion never comes up with people out here. Must be a Seattle thing.

[Phoenix Dark]

the social stigma really is the worst.  i still can only give out evasive answers when someone asks me about faith because i dont want to deal with all the put-downs and questions and just the general feeling of disgust/pity that a lot of religious people have towards atheists/agnostics.  "BU BU BU WHY DON'T YOU JUST GROW A PAIR AND TELL THEM?!"   Because i'd rather not have my friends, coworkers and family look down on me just to make a stand on something i really don't give a shit about.

Religion never comes up with people out here. Must be a Seattle thing.

Comes up all the time here, but I'm guessing it's more to do with the people who I'm surrounded with. My roommate is a hardcore name-it-claim-it/healing Christian who blasts Christian music and sermons for all to hear. I constantly get asked whether I'm going to become more involved in a church, not by my parents but by their friends. When I talk to my grandparents I get preached to, etc.

Vague answers and comments get me by though. I'll just nod my head or say "yea that's true..." and try to change the subject as soon as possible

[Akala]

if there is a god (gods!), I like to think they will look at how you lived your life rather than if you went to church every sunday.

no one can know what's out there, so why waste time worrying about it? just live your life well, and be as good as you can.

[Tieno]

the social stigma really is the worst.  i still can only give out evasive answers when someone asks me about faith because i dont want to deal with all the put-downs and questions and just the general feeling of disgust/pity that a lot of religious people have towards atheists/agnostics.  "BU BU BU WHY DON'T YOU JUST GROW A PAIR AND TELL THEM?!"   Because i'd rather not have my friends, coworkers and family look down on me just to make a stand on something i really don't give a shit about.

lolmerica indeed

[Positive Touch]

the social stigma really is the worst.  i still can only give out evasive answers when someone asks me about faith because i dont want to deal with all the put-downs and questions and just the general feeling of disgust/pity that a lot of religious people have towards atheists/agnostics.  "BU BU BU WHY DON'T YOU JUST GROW A PAIR AND TELL THEM?!"   Because i'd rather not have my friends, coworkers and family look down on me just to make a stand on something i really don't give a shit about.

Religion never comes up with people out here. Must be a Seattle thing.

midwest  :'(

[Van Cruncheon]

wow, some pretty big ignorance of buddhism and buddhist precepts all up here in da heezy

[Human Snorenado]

wow, some pretty big ignorance of buddhism and buddhist precepts all up here in da heezy

yeah, i don't really want to bother to correct someone everytime they read something incorrect into it tho, since to me it's not a governing dogma and more of a slack road map

[Human Snorenado]

I tend to think that as long as you dont mention religion, the religious people wont mention it too, and you can get along fine.

Haha, you really don't want to come to America.  Especially to ride that bike route, which went through some of the most rural, batshit insane religious parts of 'murika.

[Van Cruncheon]

maw: "well, i reckon the polack's white, that's good enuff for me"
paw: "shut yer hole, woman. i wanna see iffen he fucks like he talks"
maw: "now yew know i ain't gunna let no-one but you an' our boy git me wif child"
paw: "i didn't mean YOU woman! i'mma take his furrin ass out to the ol' pig chapel mahselfs!"
maw: "well just you don't go upsettin the chickens with his hootin"
paw: "ah'll do what ah wants, and the lord take him if he's still breathin in the mornin"
kosma, through his ball gag: <cries>
kosma's bike: <traded for 50 bales of hay, a pound of sasquatch fur, and a small child with downs>

[CajoleJuice]

Being the best religion is the equivalent of being the Mets' MVP.

[Human Snorenado]

Those downs babies can be real valuable Prole- when they mature they have downie strength, which makes plowing fields an easy and enjoyable task for the simpletons at a farm setting.

[Flannel Boy]

maw: "well, i reckon the polack's white, that's good enuff for me"
paw: "shut yer hole, woman. i wanna see iffen he fucks like he talks"
maw: "now yew know i ain't gunna let no-one but you an' our boy git me wif child"
paw: "i didn't mean YOU woman! i'mma take his furrin ass out to the ol' pig chapel mahselfs!"
maw: "well just you don't go upsettin the chickens with his hootin"
paw: "ah'll do what ah wants, and the lord take him if he's still breathin in the mornin"
kosma, through his ball gag: <cries>
kosma's bike: <traded for 50 bales of hay, a pound of sasquatch fur, and a small child with downs>

His muffled cries only mean he wants it. If he didn't want it, why was he parading around in his bike shorts? 

[Human Snorenado]

Guys seriously it can't be that bad in the U.S.

I know you're a huge country and there must be some backward places, but you can always communicate with fucking people right? You make it sound like its more looney then the third world.

Kosma, you don't get it.  One of our major political parties explicitly caters to people who handle snakes, speak in tongues, believe the earth is 6000 years old and want to murder doctors.

[Himu]

Guys seriously it can't be that bad in the U.S.

I know you're a huge country and there must be some backward places, but you can always communicate with fucking people right? You make it sound like its more looney then the third world.

I am 100% sure my mom will break down and cry if I told her this, so no.

She once said before she thought she failed as a parent because of my lack in faith of Jesus.

I am serious.

Now, imagine this with people you've known your whole life, many of which are friends, who also helped rear you as you grew up that you saw once (sometimes twice) a week.

If my mom cried when I told her I don't support or believe in the Christian religion, then imagine how she would feel like if I was unsure of God's existence in general.

For me it's a pretty big deal. I feel like I'm living a lie. Me not taking communion when I go to church is already bad enough and they question it. I don't want to pretend I'm someone I'm not but I don't want to hurt them either.

Especially in the black community, I have never met one openly black atheist or agnostic. Well, I was talking to my cousin - who's pretty much my best friend - about this today on facebook and I'm going to call him tonight and he says he thinks he's in the same boat. So I guess I can probably add one possibly black atheist/agnostic to the list of people I know.

If I have to attend one more black activity or party or whatever and hear,"In Jesus' name" my face is going to be 

[Human Snorenado]

To really fuck with them, you should say that you're a Scientologist. 

[Olivia Wilde Homo]

I live in the midwest and never really tried hiding the fact that I'm atheist.

Nobody really gives a fuck to be honest.  In fact my state legalized gay marriage with little chance of it getting overturned.

The remote, sparsely populated portions of the country are different but even then, you find more than religion nuts.  A friend of mine discovered a hippie enclave in Montana.

EB likes to be hyperbolic; homos can marry here but not in Washington.  We're also kicking ass on the renewable energy front and have leading education test scores but hey, we're full of nuts!

[Beezy]

People in our age group generally don't care here in NY.

I believe that there's some type of god, but I've never cared for the religion. Never read the bible outside of what I was required to for theology class in college. Always fell asleep in church when I was younger and still do when I go with my mother every now and then. I don't see why I should have to spend my Sundays in church when I could do something else with my time.

My whole family is religious or has been at some point except for me. My mother has been trying to get me into church more often lately, but she kinda stopped when my father said "You can't force him to like church. He didn't grow up in it like we did when we were young."

[twerd]

join the club. agnostic muslim bore!

[Himu]

You're an agnostic theist, twerd?

[Himu]

That's why I don't plan on telling them. But it's hard lying about someone I'm not when approached even in church when I turn down communion.

[Powerslave]

If you dont believe in God, there is actually less to fear and more to enjoy.

It's from which angle you look at it. I'm more comfortable with the idea of the existence of God because the thought that everything and everyone that has ever lived is just gone forever is terrifying. Not to mention the infinite numbers of injustice done to people throughout history. I hope they get their punishment, and we will watch them have it.

[Himu]

If you dont believe in God, there is actually less to fear and more to enjoy.

It's from which angle you look at it. I'm more comfortable with the idea of the existence of God because the thought that everything and everyone that has ever lived is just gone forever is terrifying. Not to mention the infinite numbers of injustice done to people throughout history. I hope they get their punishment, and we will watch them have it.

That's the thing that gets me. What is considered an injustice? I don't think things are so black and white.

[Himu]

That's why I don't plan on telling them. But it's hard lying about someone I'm not when approached even in church when I turn down communion.

Honesty, especially with parents, is overrated. Seriously, lie if you have to. At this late point in their lives you have no idea how long it might take to mend any severed ties.

You are assuming I am talking solely about parents. I am talking about a community.

[Himu]

Last month I decided to not participate in Ramadan because I felt I wasn't ready yet.

And that month got me thinking.

I realized that my relationship with God was superficial, as was my belief in him.

I still think Islam gave me a lot more than Christianity ever did, though. I'm certainly healthier and I feel better about myself. It gave me a lot. I still don't think I'll take up drinking and smoking the green stuff again, and I still haven't picked up pork again, although yesterday I accidentally ate bacon. By the same token, though, I don't eat beef as much either.

Maybe I'll start eating both again when I reach my goal of 140 and 150 pounds.

Chicken all the way, especially grilled.

Anyways, no one in Islam did anything to make me lose faith. Although it was unsettling to go to a mosque and be gawked at by a bunch of Pakisatni's. It also didn't help that I was really the only my age, aside from one or two other people who was muslim, but that enabled me to do more soul searching.

[Akala]

Last month I decided to not participate in Ramadan because I felt I wasn't ready yet.

And that month got me thinking.

I realized that my relationship with God was superficial, as was my belief in him.

I still think Islam gave me a lot more than Christianity ever did, though. I'm certainly healthier and I feel better about myself. It gave me a lot. I still don't think I'll take up drinking and smoking the green stuff again, and I still haven't picked up pork again, although yesterday I accidentally ate bacon. By the same token, though, I don't eat beef as much either.

Maybe I'll start eating both again when I reach my goal of 140 and 150 pounds.

Chicken all the way, especially grilled.

Anyways, no one in Islam did anything to make me lose faith. Although it was unsettling to go to a mosque and be gawked at by a bunch of Pakisatni's. It also didn't help that I was really the only my age, aside from one or two other people who was muslim, but that enabled me to do more soul searching.

coincidence?

it truly is the devil's meat.

[CajoleJuice]

I accidentally eat bacon all the time.

[Himu]

Uh, food had nothing to do with my belief. I merely mentioned it because it's one of the ways Islam has helped me in making me feel better and more healthy.

[Himu]

Seriously Jin, did you not read the part where I said I benefited from Islam in making me feel more healthy? You don't think the diet is a part of this?

[Himu]

I was referring to Ramadan and not being ready. I'm sure that it's not just that, I read the OP, I feel what you're going through.

Oh. It wasn't the food. Ramadan is a holy month in Islam so it got me thinking. Not being ready wasn't due to the food, but my faith in general.

You dont need any religion to make you a better person, you can do everything out of your own.

I agree, but at the time I never considered agnosticism or atheism an option. Although I've always had my doubts, I felt comfort in believing in something. The thought process went like,"I believe in God. So it's not like I'm atheist!" So taking it upon myself to join another faith was purely based on self betterment, so I was willing to accept not eating pork or not drinking.

[bork]

I tend to think that as long as you dont mention religion, the religious people wont mention it too, and you can get along fine.

You should watch the documentary "Religulous" with Bill Maher.  There's a Jesusland theme park in Florida.  Seriously.

[youtube=560,345][/youtube]

Check out 0:35 for this snippet:

Maher: "You're a senator.  It worries me that people who are running my country believe in a talking snake."
Senator: "You don't have to pass an IQ test to be in the senate though.  *laughs*"
Maher: "............."

[Himu]

My aunt showed me that.

I was trying my hardest to not laugh in her face. Really.

[Himu]

Really? I figured that if you're going to have a holy month you should do it right, and I didn't feel I was at that level yet.

I'm not worried about other people. I'm more concerned about myself.

[Himu]

What do you do "wrong"?

[Great Rumbler]

I'm a Christian and I can bacon EVERY DAY.

[Himu]

Who took your virginity, hon?

[Phoenix Dark]

What did she say when you told her you were converting to Islam tho?

[Himu]

She was disappointed but accepted it. However she said things like,"I've failed you as a parent".

I am 100% sure my mom will break down and cry if I told her this, so no.

She once said before she thought she failed as a parent because of my lack in faith of Jesus.

I am serious.

[Himu]

delete

[Flannel Boy]

What do you do "wrong"?

...

What was her name?

[tiesto]

Welcome to the club, Himu.

Here around NY, not very many people care about your religion... my aunt told me a story that when her and my uncle moved down to Melbourne Florida (from Flushing), after a few weeks the neighbors knocked on their door, concerned because they hadn't seen the 2 of them at the local church. Most people here are either very liberal Catholic, reform Jews, or agnostic. Though occasionally you meet the occasional nutjobs as I can certainly attest to.

I totally can't imagine living in an area where everyone is so gung-ho about church and will chastise and avoid you if you aren't religious.

[Beezy]

It's from which angle you look at it. I'm more comfortable with the idea of the existence of God because the thought that everything and everyone that has ever lived is just gone forever is terrifying. Not to mention the infinite numbers of injustice done to people throughout history. I hope they get their punishment, and we will watch them have it.

I used to think about this when I was younger and it seriously scared the shit out of me. I still do think about it every now and then, but I find something to distract myself when I realize it.

[Himu]

Welcome to the club, Himu.

Here around NY, not very many people care about your religion... my aunt told me a story that when her and my uncle moved down to Melbourne Florida (from Flushing), after a few weeks the neighbors knocked on their door, concerned because they hadn't seen the 2 of them at the local church. Most people here are either very liberal Catholic, reform Jews, or agnostic. Though occasionally you meet the occasional nutjobs as I can certainly attest to.

I totally can't imagine living in an area where everyone is so gung-ho about church and will chastise and avoid you if you aren't religious.

Even more reason to move to New York City!