Author Topic: Mass Effect 2 Thread  (Read 142752 times)

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Stoney Mason

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Mass Effect 2 Thread
« on: December 04, 2009, 02:25:32 PM »
Maybe. Hopefully...

I had a lot of issues with Mass Effect so hopefully this is a sign that they are pursuing a better path this time.

Quote
BioWare Looking to Make Mass Effect 2 More Challenging
Posted December 4, 2009 by James Brightman

With Dragon Age already on store shelves and off to a pretty solid start, BioWare is now turning its attention towards its next major release, the sequel to Mass Effect. Although the first game garnered numerous awards and was a success for BioWare, some gamers felt it was too easy.

Mass Effect 2 producer Adrien Cho sees this as an unfortunate trend in the industry and he's looking to at least provide players with a greater challenge in the upcoming RPG slated for January. “Sometimes I think we’re pampering gamers too much,” he told VideoGamesDaily. “Just recently, a game like Demon Souls is fantastic because when you die, and you fail, it’s not because the game was cheap it’s usually because you didn’t do something properly. It goes back to that learning mechanism of 'Well, I tried this – it didn’t work. I’m going to try something different.' And I think that’s going to be something in Mass Effect 2, we don’t want it to be a cakewalk, you want a challenge."

Sometimes developers don't give gamers enough credit. “I think gamers want a more sophisticated game, they don’t want a breezy game where you see all the cinematics and just put in your hours and play it through," added Cho. "So definitely there’s some serious consequences. Delicious consequences! You’ll have to play to find out.”


Personally, we found the first Mass Effect to be very enjoyable (except for the horrid item management and elevator load times), so we're eager to see what changes BioWare has made. The game will likely be a top seller in calendar Q1 of next year as well, which is looking far busier than any Q1 in recent memory.

http://www.industrygamers.com/news/bioware-looking-to-make-mass-effect-2-more-challenging/
« Last Edit: February 05, 2010, 10:13:52 AM by demi »

Himu

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Re: Mass Effect 2 to be tough like Dragon Age.
« Reply #1 on: December 04, 2009, 02:27:09 PM »
YESSSSSSS
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ManaByte

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Re: Mass Effect 2 to be tough like Dragon Age.
« Reply #2 on: December 04, 2009, 02:29:38 PM »
It's also going to be two discs.
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cool breeze

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Re: Mass Effect 2 to be tough like Dragon Age.
« Reply #3 on: December 04, 2009, 02:30:22 PM »
"Maybe. Hopefully..." is a good response.  Videos show the game to be a lot more of a shooter now, so, is it going to be like Borderlands now where there are high level enemies with huge health bars? is it going to require skills necessary in shooters now? are they going to make team work/control more important?

I will miss being able to snipe people with my shotgun through the entire game.  The new biotic/tech powers look pretty cool, so hopefully it all works out.

Stoney Mason

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Re: Mass Effect 2 to be tough like Dragon Age.
« Reply #4 on: December 04, 2009, 02:34:44 PM »
"Maybe. Hopefully..." is a good response.  Videos show the game to be a lot more of a shooter now, so, is it going to be like Borderlands now where there are high level enemies with huge health bars? is it going to require skills necessary in shooters now? are they going to make team work/control more important?

I will miss being able to snipe people with my shotgun through the entire game.  The new biotic/tech powers look pretty cool, so hopefully it all works out.

My problem with Mass Effect and Bioware RPG's in general, even the ones I love like KOTOR is that you got all these abilities but the actual combat is simply on auto-pilot and crazy easy. You never actually had to strategize or use these abilities to win battles. Also you got all those abilities way too fast and too early in the game in Mass Effect. They didn't seemingly know how to space it out or something and have a smooth leveling reward mechanic.

cool breeze

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Re: Mass Effect 2 to be tough like Dragon Age.
« Reply #5 on: December 04, 2009, 02:39:53 PM »
To be fair, in ME1 if you didn't do the side quests it could be finished in about 10-14 hours.  Maybe they wanted people who played it as a straight shot to enjoy what was there.  I thought it was fine in Dragon Age.  ME2 actually seems to give you less stats/abilities to level up, but they also showed how there are changes to those powers as they get stronger.  Maybe that's a good compromise.

archie4208

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Re: Mass Effect 2 to be tough like Dragon Age.
« Reply #6 on: December 04, 2009, 02:44:53 PM »
Sounds great. 

Stoney Mason

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Re: Mass Effect 2 to be tough like Dragon Age.
« Reply #7 on: December 04, 2009, 02:45:04 PM »
To be fair, in ME1 if you didn't do the side quests it could be finished in about 10-14 hours.  Maybe they wanted people who played it as a straight shot to enjoy what was there.  I thought it was fine in Dragon Age.  ME2 actually seems to give you less stats/abilities to level up, but they also showed how there are changes to those powers as they get stronger.  Maybe that's a good compromise.
I just sort of feel Bioware had gotten very lazy with their combat engine design period. The low point was Jade Empire. A game with a shitload of flaws but a game that actually had a fairly interesting combat design. Which they completely fucked up by never requiring you to actually use it and being able to get through the entire game by simply button mashing.

If you aren't going to require depth in the combat system why even put in all those abilities. It's pointless. It's fake depth.

Draft

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Re: Mass Effect 2 to be tough like Dragon Age.
« Reply #8 on: December 04, 2009, 02:46:45 PM »
Hard like Dragon Age? So Soldiers will be weak bitches at the mercy of every magic CC in the game, but Adepts will be grim reapers obliterating all that they see from 100 yards?

Stoney Mason

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Re: Mass Effect 2 to be tough like Dragon Age.
« Reply #9 on: December 04, 2009, 02:49:37 PM »
Hard like Dragon Age? So Soldiers will be weak bitches at the mercy of every magic CC in the game, but Adepts will be grim reapers obliterating all that they see from 100 yards?

To be fair the Dragon Age comment is me editorializing rather than anything they said in relation to that game. 

Kestastrophe

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Re: Mass Effect 2 to be tough like Dragon Age.
« Reply #10 on: December 04, 2009, 03:05:20 PM »
ME was ridiculously easy. That game had no challenge at all. You didn't even have to bother with installing a single mod to weapon/ armour. And maxing your level at around 70% of the game without grinding is a fucking design error.
It took me almost two full playthroughs to get to level 60. You are right about difficulty though, even insane mode was easy
jon

Don Flamenco

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Re: Mass Effect 2 to be tough like Dragon Age.
« Reply #11 on: December 04, 2009, 03:10:43 PM »
the biggest challenge in mass effect is timing your button presses properly when the game dips to 10fps and there are all kinds of explosions and neon shit flying around the screen.

Himu

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Re: Mass Effect 2 to be tough like Dragon Age.
« Reply #12 on: December 04, 2009, 03:12:30 PM »
I actually thought ME was sorta challenging in a "learners curve" sorta way at the beginning, but once I got it in my head that the game wasn't a shooter, but still an rpg, it became a lot easier.
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Re: Mass Effect 2 to be tough like Dragon Age.
« Reply #13 on: December 04, 2009, 03:17:04 PM »
I actually thought ME was sorta challenging in a "learners curve" sorta way at the beginning, but once I got it in my head that the game wasn't a shooter, but still an rpg, it became a lot easier.

I don't know about that. I replayed it this past month on the PC and just walked right through every battle in the game playing it like a shooter. I didn't even bother giving any orders to my team members 95% of the time and I rarely even used any skills of my own except healing and reviving downed teammates.

Even the final boss was super easy.
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Himu

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Re: Mass Effect 2 to be tough like Dragon Age.
« Reply #14 on: December 04, 2009, 03:18:33 PM »
Of course. You replayed it.

But when I first played it on the first planet, I died at some parts because I wasn't used to the game yet.

I think ME's got good balance near the beginning, but enemies don't catch up. Pretty soon you're one shotting enemies with a fucking pistol.

That said, there were challenging aspects. Go to Noveria before all the other planets, dare you.
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Stoney Mason

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Re: Mass Effect 2 to be tough like Dragon Age.
« Reply #15 on: December 04, 2009, 03:22:46 PM »
There is always an element in an action-rpg hybrid where your action skills can over-ride the rpg part. Some of that is inevitable and some of that is by design. But I still thought Mass Effect did a below average job of trying to balance it out.

Himu

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Re: Mass Effect 2 to be tough like Dragon Age.
« Reply #16 on: December 04, 2009, 03:23:26 PM »
Agreed.
IYKYK

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Re: Mass Effect 2 to be tough like Dragon Age.
« Reply #17 on: December 04, 2009, 03:27:32 PM »
That is kinda why I like action rpgs so much.  Best feeling is fighting enemies beyond your level and getting that huge reward for your effort.  ME didn't have that.  It was really easy on both the 360 and PC.  I literally died once when I replayed it on PC, and it was on that one planet with all the bug like creatures where you need to escape as they swarm you; I was just fighting them all off.  On the 360 when I first played it, I remember it being just as easy.  Except for the Mako stuff; the Mako on the 360 was incredibly frustrating.

Himu

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Re: Mass Effect 2 to be tough like Dragon Age.
« Reply #18 on: December 04, 2009, 03:30:19 PM »
ME had that one boss fight on Noveria where you fight the smurf's mother. I went there first and got owned. Came back later and it was a breeze.
IYKYK

cool breeze

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Re: Mass Effect 2 to be tough like Dragon Age.
« Reply #19 on: December 04, 2009, 03:38:03 PM »
That's like the Zelda fan excuse of "Zelda games are hard if you don't pick up hearts!"

Even so, that would just make ME1 broken, not difficult.

Himu

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Re: Mass Effect 2 to be tough like Dragon Age.
« Reply #20 on: December 04, 2009, 03:39:03 PM »
I didn't say it was difficult. But it was the one sole occurrence I struggled at the game.
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Fragamemnon

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Re: Mass Effect 2 to be tough like Dragon Age.
« Reply #21 on: December 04, 2009, 03:40:23 PM »
Quote
Sometimes developers don't give gamers enough credit. “I think gamers want a more sophisticated game, they don’t want a breezy game where you see all the cinematics and just put in your hours and play it through"

This has sort of been my core condemnation of console gaming for quite a few years now, nice to see a developer like Bioware actually recognize it as a problem.
hex

Stoney Mason

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Re: Mass Effect 2 to be tough like Dragon Age.
« Reply #22 on: December 04, 2009, 03:44:22 PM »
Quote
Sometimes developers don't give gamers enough credit. “I think gamers want a more sophisticated game, they don’t want a breezy game where you see all the cinematics and just put in your hours and play it through"

This has sort of been my core condemnation of console gaming for quite a few years now, nice to see a developer like Bioware actually recognize it as a problem.

I almost never agree with this "consolization" argument as that isn't what is going on in a lot of cases. Neverwinter Nights didn't require much strategy either despite looking like it does or should. There is simply good game design and weak game design. Especially for battle engines or reward mechanics.

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Re: Mass Effect 2 to be tough like Dragon Age.
« Reply #23 on: December 04, 2009, 03:55:24 PM »
ME had that one boss fight on Noveria where you fight the smurf's mother. I went there first and got owned. Came back later and it was a breeze.

I'm pretty sure I went there first and it was a breeze. The key to winning easily is to move away from her as quickly as possible. Go right along the catwalk and wait in one of the other corners until the enemy troops come at you and then mow them down. Eventually she'll get tired, that's when you move in and put her down.
dog

Himu

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Re: Mass Effect 2 to be tough like Dragon Age.
« Reply #24 on: December 04, 2009, 03:57:12 PM »
I just threw up my hands and went somewhere else.
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Re: Mass Effect 2 to be tough like Dragon Age.
« Reply #25 on: December 04, 2009, 04:04:02 PM »
I just threw up my hands and went somewhere else.

As long as you don't try to face her head-on at the beginning of the battle, you really shouldn't have any problems at all.
dog

Bebpo

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Re: Mass Effect 2 to be tough like Dragon Age.
« Reply #26 on: December 04, 2009, 04:10:06 PM »
I don't really think wrpgs can be hard without being brokenly stupid hard.  They give you too many options, too much freedom.  It's like N1 srpgs.  You can't balance something to be balanced for every class, weapon, armor, skill.  The more games limit your freedom the more challenging they can be since they know exactly what you'll be like and can make something that is the perfect challenge for that situation.

Fragamemnon

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Re: Mass Effect 2 to be tough like Dragon Age.
« Reply #27 on: December 04, 2009, 04:13:06 PM »
I almost never agree with this "consolization" argument as that isn't what is going on in a lot of cases. Neverwinter Nights didn't require much strategy either despite looking like it does or should. There is simply good game design and weak game design. Especially for battle engines or reward mechanics.

The thing about it is that on the PC there are always good alternatives if you want a game that will rise up to meet your challenge, so to speak. Back when NWN came out (and it was a joke to play through), you could just grab Divine Divinity or Icewind Dale 2, both in-genre contemporaries of NWN that were much more demanding of the player. My point being is that the higher-brow options at least exist on the PC, usually with a good set of games to choose from in any particular PC genre, whereas with console games it's mostly slim pickings.

Nowadays we have all of the PC German/Eastern Bloc stuff translated whose games largely embrace complexity, sophistication, and player challenge as a rule. The big budget American console stuff by (in my opinion, perceived, not actual) necessity goes for more accessible and simpler designs, and the Japanese usually somewhere in between.

Then again part of this is the overwhelming bias I have against console games since the strategy game market literally does not exist on those systems at all in meaningful form , which causes every other genre to suffer due to lack of cross-pollination.

hex

Stoney Mason

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Re: Mass Effect 2 to be tough like Dragon Age.
« Reply #28 on: December 04, 2009, 04:14:15 PM »
I don't really think wrpgs can be hard without being brokenly stupid hard.  They give you too many options, too much freedom.  It's like N1 srpgs.  You can't balance something to be balanced for every class, weapon, armor, skill.  The more games limit your freedom the more challenging they can be since they know exactly what you'll be like and can make something that is the perfect challenge for that situation.

There is definitely something to be said that any action RPG will generally be less balanced than say any turn based or limited management system simply because the variables can be controlled a lot better in the latter situation. If your game is a lot like a shooter then it will have shooter gameplay components which are different than say a turn based stat based rpg battle system.

Fragamemnon

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Re: Mass Effect 2 to be tough like Dragon Age.
« Reply #29 on: December 04, 2009, 04:14:28 PM »
I don't really think wrpgs can be hard without being brokenly stupid hard.  They give you too many options, too much freedom.  It's like N1 srpgs.  You can't balance something to be balanced for every class, weapon, armor, skill.  The more games limit your freedom the more challenging they can be since they know exactly what you'll be like and can make something that is the perfect challenge for that situation.

Yeah, when designing these at some point you have to let the players police themselves. Your testing isn't going to catch every overpowered ability combo out there in a huge WRPG game, and if players want to abuse those abilities well that's their own play experience that suffers for it.
hex

Don Flamenco

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Re: Mass Effect 2 to be tough like Dragon Age.
« Reply #30 on: December 04, 2009, 04:15:06 PM »
Demon's Souls has the perfect difficulty balance-- not so easy that you can blow right through with little worry about dying, not so hard that you can't figure out a better way to deal with a tough spot.  You die frequently, but it doesn't feel hopeless or deflating...you're motivated to collect the souls you drop and to kick the shit out of the enemy that just killed you.  and since it isn't randomized, you can blow through the spots you played through quickly and get back to where you are.  And the dungeons are fucking awesome.

Stoney Mason

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Re: Mass Effect 2 to be tough like Dragon Age.
« Reply #31 on: December 04, 2009, 04:20:02 PM »
@ Frag.

The reason I don't like the "consolization" argument is that because it feeds into platform wars when the more proper term is a money argument. The dirty little secret is that the mass of gamers don't want a tough challenge whether they be on PC or consoles. When you do focus testing on either platform that is the undeniable truth that emerges. That is why in general, ALL games on all patforms have become easier.

The PC has a situation where it is more able to cater to the niche of gamers that want a more difficult challenge and that is a great thing but my issue is more with how the argument is being framed.

There are tough challenges to be found on the console also. Lost Odyssey is a flawed game but an example of a battle engine that is very tough and challenging. And the reality is that a lot of people don't like that. Hell, Tales of Vesperia is tougher than Mass Effect. The Japanese in general as a sterotype generally work on system designs much more than American designers but that gameplay style is out of vogue because people (westerners) find it confining in this day and age.
« Last Edit: December 04, 2009, 04:25:28 PM by Stoney Mason »

Himu

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Re: Mass Effect 2 to be tough like Dragon Age.
« Reply #32 on: December 04, 2009, 06:46:04 PM »
ME2 won't be nearly as good as DA, which I need to finish btw.
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Stoney Mason

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Re: Mass Effect 2 to be tough like Dragon Age.
« Reply #33 on: December 04, 2009, 06:55:12 PM »
ME2 won't be nearly as good as DA, which I need to finish btw.

I'm skeptical it will be as good as Dragon Age but then they are different experiences.

demi

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Re: Mass Effect 2 to be tough like Dragon Age.
« Reply #34 on: December 04, 2009, 09:29:20 PM »
Dragon Age is tough because it controls for shit, not because of actual skill level.
fat

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Re: Mass Effect 2 to be tough like Dragon Age.
« Reply #35 on: December 04, 2009, 09:34:36 PM »
Dragon Age is tough because it controls for shit, not because of actual skill level.

Controls are just fine on the PC version and it's still got quite a few difficult sections.
dog

Bebpo

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Re: Mass Effect 2 to be tough like Dragon Age.
« Reply #36 on: December 04, 2009, 10:33:30 PM »
How can a game have bad controls when you can PLAY IT PAUSED  ???

Kestastrophe

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Re: Mass Effect 2 to be tough like Dragon Age.
« Reply #37 on: December 04, 2009, 10:35:44 PM »
o snap
jon

demi

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Re: Mass Effect 2 to be tough like Dragon Age.
« Reply #38 on: December 04, 2009, 10:37:42 PM »
ME2 won't be nearly as good as DA, which I need to finish btw.

ME2 will absolutely annihilate DA, in graphics, control and story. It will be a refreshing change of pace where my party members don't hate me for everything I do. And I can actually control them - ie hide them in a corner so they dont do distinguished mentally-challenged AI shit.
fat

demi

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Re: Mass Effect 2 to be tough like Dragon Age.
« Reply #39 on: December 04, 2009, 10:39:13 PM »
How can a game have bad controls when you can PLAY IT PAUSED  ???

Sorry bro, you play DA yet? Cause I didnt see any japanese people in the game. KOTOR you can play "paused" and it destroys that fanfic of a game.

Ya'll need to get checked.
fat

Bebpo

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Re: Mass Effect 2 to be tough like Dragon Age.
« Reply #40 on: December 04, 2009, 11:06:42 PM »
I played the intro.  I paused the game and pointed at enemies while they couldn't do anything to me.  I am confused how you can have bad controls when all you need to do is pause and point at things??

Himu

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Re: Mass Effect 2 to be tough like Dragon Age.
« Reply #41 on: December 04, 2009, 11:11:43 PM »
console version bebpo
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Himu

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Re: Mass Effect 2 to be tough like Dragon Age.
« Reply #42 on: December 05, 2009, 03:46:29 AM »
Japanese games especially jRPGs are "hard" because they throw overpowered bosses around and you have to grind for hours before challenging them. That's not hard like WRPGs, that's distinguished mentally-challenged hard.

jrpgs aren't challenging either outside a few exceptions which actually require strategy. rpgs are probably one of the easiest genres ever.

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Stoney Mason

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Re: Mass Effect 2 to be tough like Dragon Age.
« Reply #43 on: December 07, 2009, 11:02:23 AM »
[youtube=560,345][/youtube]
[youtube=560,345][/youtube]

Draft

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Re: Mass Effect 2 to be tough like Dragon Age.
« Reply #44 on: December 07, 2009, 04:08:22 PM »
ME2 is going to butt rape Dragon Age.

Kestastrophe

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Re: Mass Effect 2 to be tough like Dragon Age.
« Reply #45 on: December 07, 2009, 04:23:02 PM »
the engineer looks effin awesome
jon

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Re: Mass Effect 2 to be tough like Dragon Age.
« Reply #46 on: December 08, 2009, 11:24:27 AM »
So does the adept!  :o
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demi

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Re: Mass Effect 2 to be tough like Dragon Age.
« Reply #47 on: December 08, 2009, 11:25:52 AM »
Wow that game looks gorgeous. Dragon Shit annihilated.
fat

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Re: Mass Effect 2 to be tough like Dragon Age.
« Reply #48 on: December 08, 2009, 11:29:22 AM »
can't decide between pc or ps3, I dont think I have my 360 save anymore. :(
USA

Stoney Mason

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Re: Mass Effect 2 to be tough like Dragon Age.
« Reply #49 on: December 08, 2009, 11:49:57 AM »
can't decide between pc or ps3, I dont think I have my 360 save anymore. :(

I still need to finish it. Game starts off great but wears on you as the flaws start to rear their head.

demi

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Re: Mass Effect 2 to be tough like Dragon Age.
« Reply #50 on: December 08, 2009, 11:52:17 AM »
After playing DA you appreciate ME sooooooooooooooooooooooo much more.
fat

Kestastrophe

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Re: Mass Effect 2 to be tough like Dragon Age.
« Reply #51 on: December 08, 2009, 11:53:03 AM »
Game is not on PS3. nice try
jon

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Re: Mass Effect 2 to be tough like Dragon Age.
« Reply #52 on: December 08, 2009, 12:07:02 PM »
not yet, but many journalists have said they've seen a playable PS3 version behind closed doors, and I don't mind waiting for ME2.
USA

Kestastrophe

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Re: Mass Effect 2 to be tough like Dragon Age.
« Reply #53 on: December 08, 2009, 12:14:20 PM »
jon

Stoney Mason

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Re: Mass Effect 2 to be tough like Dragon Age.
« Reply #54 on: December 08, 2009, 12:24:40 PM »
nm wrong thread.

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Re: Mass Effect 2 to be tough like Dragon Age.
« Reply #55 on: December 08, 2009, 12:27:29 PM »
No, but my friend who works for IGN has personally told me he's seen it.
USA

demi

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Re: Mass Effect 2 to be tough like Dragon Age.
« Reply #56 on: December 08, 2009, 12:32:11 PM »
Dude just stop please.
fat

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Re: Mass Effect 2 to be tough like Dragon Age.
« Reply #57 on: December 08, 2009, 12:38:00 PM »
Ok.

Have they announced if a prior PC save file is going to effect the story at all?
USA

Draft

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Re: Mass Effect 2 to be tough like Dragon Age.
« Reply #58 on: December 08, 2009, 03:35:35 PM »
 :'(

I wish this amazing game was on the shitty PS3
 :'( :'( :'(

ManaByte

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Re: Mass Effect 2 to be tough like Dragon Age.
« Reply #59 on: December 08, 2009, 03:51:10 PM »
First screens of the PS3 Mass Effect:


CBG