FitnessBore - 2018 edition

[Cormacaroni]

So, last year I walked a 3k charity event (it was supposed to be a 5k run, but cold weather got the best of it) and ran participated in a Tough Mudder in October.

This year, I'll be doing the 5k charity race again (although it's for muscular distrophy, and I don't think anyone will actually run in it), and the Tough Mudder in October.  I'm also thinking about doing a couple of other races/obstacle 5k's.

I know that Kiefer is hardcore against cardio, but how should I train for this and still keep in line with the CNS guidelines?

Simple - just have your Carb Nite the day before the race, or before the nights you train. Once a week should be fine for volume cardio, and doing HIIT on regular days will only hasten fat loss

[Oblivion]

I'm planning on going back to this boxing gym that I tried out a few months ago, which I stopped cause work suddenly picked  up and i couldn't go anymore. Was curious, is 4 weeks of diligent weight lifting enough time to see noticeable improvement in muscle size, or is that too short?

Also, I'm very skinny with an extremely low body fat percentage.

[Boogie]

I'm planning on going back to this boxing gym that I tried out a few months ago, which I stopped cause work suddenly picked  up and i couldn't go anymore. Was curious, is 4 weeks of diligent weight lifting enough time to see noticeable improvement in muscle size, or is that too short?

Also, I'm very skinny with an extremely low body fat percentage.

I know that when I started taking lifting seriously just shy of 5 years ago, and got on a Starting Strength-esque routine, I noticed a huge difference over the course of about 3 months.  Gained over 10 lbs of muscle in that span.

4 weeks sounds a bit short to me tho, I dunno.

[Cormacaroni]

I'm planning on going back to this boxing gym that I tried out a few months ago, which I stopped cause work suddenly picked  up and i couldn't go anymore. Was curious, is 4 weeks of diligent weight lifting enough time to see noticeable improvement in muscle size, or is that too short?

Also, I'm very skinny with an extremely low body fat percentage.

It might do, it might not depending on whether you eat or how your body responds but why not? At the very least, it'd make you stronger, which is important if you plan on punching people

[BlueTsunami]

I don't think you'll see that large of a mass jump if you're starting from a skinny template. As far as muscular striations go, you should be looking fairly bulgy come one month in pumping the muscle. Its one of the reasons why I'm jealous of the skinny mo'fos that constantly look cut up, purely for aesthetics.

[Smooth Groove]

Anyone tried compound lifts with resistance bands?

http://www.westside-barbell.com/products/index.php?c=11&p=79

I just started doing it with my workout partner

We probably added around 80-10 lbs of resistance on the bench

With the bands, 3 reps around 160-185 were pretty hard for my partner who usually can do 295 for 3 reps pretty easily

I just stuck to 130-140

It felt kinda weird but not as dangerous as I expected, there was some pull but the bar is not flying back down to my chest

[ToxicAdam]

Does your alpha male instincts make you want to piss on the ground  and start snarling?

[Smooth Groove]

that guy may be a douche but Westside Barbell is the real deal

they get crazy results

[Cormacaroni]

yeah, they have produced some of the strongest people on the planet, can't hate their methods. Although probably total overkill for most people

[Smooth Groove]

yeah, they have produced some of the strongest people on the planet, can't hate their methods. Although probably total overkill for most people

You think they juice though?

hard to believe a human being can get to 2000lb club naturally

[Cormacaroni]

oh sure

But that's a very complex issue and I have what you might call a progressive stance on it

[Yoritomo]

The only real frustration with PEDs is individuals feeling bad cause they can't meet the same goals as those who are juicing.

That and idiotic advice.

This 10 week study took a group of 43 men of normal body weight between the ages of 19 and 40 who all had some degree of weight training experience. These men were then split up into 4 different groups:

Group 1 did NOT do any form of exercise, and did NOT receive any form of steroids or drugs. (Natural guys doing no weight training.)
Group 2 did NOT do any form of exercise, but they received weekly injections of 600 mg of testosterone enanthate. (Drug users doing no weight training.)
Group 3 DID exercise, but they did NOT receive any form of steroids or drugs. (Natural guys doing weight training.)
Group 4 DID exercise, and they also received weekly injections of 600 mg of testosterone enanthate. (Drug users doing weight training.)
All of their diets (calorie intake, protein intake, nutrient intake, etc.) were standardized according to each person’s body weight, recorded, verified and adjusted when needed. The 2 groups who WERE weight training (groups 3 and 4) followed the same supervised workouts each week.

Meaning, with the exception of the fact that some groups were or were not weight training, and some were or were not using drugs… everything else (diet and training) was equal and even.

The Results

Group 1 (no exercise, natural) experienced no significant changes. No surprise there.
Group 2 (no exercise, drug use) was able to build about 7 pounds of muscle. That’s not a typo. The group receiving testosterone injections and NOT working out at all gained 7 pounds of muscle.
Group 3 (exercise, natural) was able to build about 4 pounds of muscle.
Group 4 (exercise, drug use) was able to build about 13 pounds of muscle.

So the issue is that someone juicing can literally go to the gym and pound their head against the wall and gain more mass than someone training naturally.

Personally I see no problem with it, but hiding it and selling yourself as something you're not can be a social and competitive problem. Unless you're specifically competing then you should never compare you or your progress to others. Your only competition is the iron. That fucker is going to leave the floor and every month more of it is going to leave the floor.

[Mupepe]

The only real frustration with PEDs is individuals feeling bad cause they can't meet the same goals as those who are juicing.


Personally I see no problem with it, but hiding it and selling yourself as something you're not can be a social and competitive problem. Unless you're specifically competing then you should never compare you or your progress to others. Your only competition is the iron. That fucker is going to leave the floor and every month more of it is going to leave the floor.

I don't think most people who used PED's sell themselves as something they're not.  The hiding that's caused by it is because of the legal issues and media/social misconceptions that have been associated with PED's.  I know people IRL and I spend some time on some steroid forums and none of them have any problem with admitting use to most people because they know it's not some magic potion and they still bust their ass to get where they are.

[Yoritomo]

I don't think most people who used PED's sell themselves as something they're not.  The hiding that's caused by it is because of the legal issues and media/social misconceptions that have been associated with PED's.  I know people IRL and I spend some time on some steroid forums and none of them have any problem with admitting use to most people because they know it's not some magic potion and they still bust their ass to get where they are.

It should be legal. The lying due to legal issues is the only problem I see socially. However based on that study it is a magic potion. Where they are is far and above where they would be if they had put the same amount of work in without the steroids.

[Junpei the Tracer!]

Does anyone here cycle? I'm going to the gym tomorrow and start cycling, when I was back home I just used my treadmill but I want to mix things up. And I would like to start biking in general so I figured it'd be a good start.

[Olivia Wilde Homo]

I think steroids are ok as long as it is under the supervision of a doctor.  You know, blood work analysis and such.

[Cormacaroni]

Good luck finding a doctor with any understanding of them, who isn't just going to recommend that you don't do them because that's the most insurable policy

[BlueTsunami]

Cormac, I haven't seen any reference to caloric intake on a CBL off-day. Right now I'm taking liberties with how low a carb intake I'm taking on an off-day so I can up my calories by a higher margin (basically by taking in milk and eating peanut butter). Any thoughts on this?

[Cormacaroni]

I don't understand wtf you're doing, sorry

what does 'taking liberties' mean

[BlueTsunami]

Basically I've found that my calorie intake on off days due to not eating as much carbs nose dives. So my caloric intake is up and down based on if I've worked out that day or not. So in trying to put on muscle mass wouldn't consuming a lower amount of calories on an off-day be detrimental? Essentially the caloric dense stuff to eat are usually loaded with carbs.

[Cormacaroni]

That's a major part of the protocol though. Do you not see the sense of calorie intake fluctuating according to activity?

[BlueTsunami]

That is true and I considered that. I guess I'm still dipping my toes in some regards. I've been managing the carbs correctly but I've been really observant of my caloric intake recently (which I just remembered CBL's beauty is not really having to count calories). I'll go with the flow with that then. Unfortunately googling it has a lot of people saying this and that, lots of dudes proclaiming that your baseline caloric intake for bulking should be maintained or something which is mind boggling since hitting 2.5K or more calories is very hard to hit without pulling in spare carbs and go beyond 30g.

[Cormacaroni]

Do you really want to bulk or do you just want to eat more?

[BlueTsunami]

Definitely bulk which is my main concern with maintaining my calories but I don't want to pack on more fat than I already have which is why I gravitated to CBL

[Cormacaroni]

The low-carb, low calorie days and mornings are what burn fat. If you eat more carbs and more calories, you will not burn as much fat, and the bulk you put on will have more fat. Ergo, if you are serious about keeping the fat off, YOU HAVE TO KEEP CARBS AND CALORIES DOWN.

It sounds like what you should really be doing is just more workout days and thus more backloads. If you're not at 5 days a week yet that is

[BlueTsunami]

That's the underlying issue then. Basically I workout with my father and whether we go in or not depends on if one of use wants to go in or not. He's been working later which has off days coming more often due to tiredness (still hitting up 4 days out of the 7 though at a minimum). They just haven't been successive.

[Cormacaroni]

If you have any doubt about this, think what happened to you in the past when you tried to bulk hard without any calorie/carb restriction or cycling. You get fat so fast it's unreal, right? Heavy weights and unrestricted calories and carbs are a catastrophic combination for body fat accumulation, and it's really hard to rationalize just bulking with no regard to your BF unless you are going to enter a strongman competition or try out for sumo

[BlueTsunami]

Put the fear of fat in me. I'll have to respect the off-days more now. I'm still slimming, dropping weight even and looking even more muscular but I feel I could refine things even more.

[Cormacaroni]

That's the underlying issue then. Basically I workout with my father and whether we go in or not depends on if one of use wants to go in or not. He's been working later which has off days coming more often due to tiredness (still hitting up 4 days out of the 7 though at a minimum). They just haven't been successive.

Off-days shouldn't matter much at all if 4 days a week are weights and backloads. Are you not seeing gains or something? What exactly is the problem

[Cormacaroni]

losing fat, looking more muscular - as long as you are also seeing gains in the gym I would take that as a validation of what you're doing and not fuck with it!

First rule of all this stuff should really be something like DO THE GODDAMN PROGRAM FOR AT LEAST 4-6 WEEKS BEFORE TINKERING

[Cormacaroni]

And you know why? It's because most people don't do the work to evaluate their progress properly, and thus have no idea whether it is working or not. Do you know your starting body fat percentage, and what it is now? What were you lifting before CBL, exactly? Do you even know your bodyweight exactly pre-CBL and now

Granted all this stuff is not necessary but when people DON'T know it, they start panicking and changing shit that is working for no real reason

[BlueTsunami]

Yeah I didn't really measure anything aside from jumping on a scale and seeing that fluctuate around a bit. Its been trending downwards though. Its all been visual which I know isn't that quick and accurate of an assessment. The whole calorie thing was just me tinkering, not due to not seeing results.

[Cormacaroni]

Unless you do as much research as Kiefer, I wouldn't start tinkering with his program as long as you are seeing results. You need either a lot of research or a little faith

[Olivia Wilde Homo]

Good luck finding a doctor with any understanding of them, who isn't just going to recommend that you don't do them because that's the most insurable policy

They're out there.

My Dad (and I for a couple of summers) went to a gym that was more or less a front for selling steroids.  Everyone was pretty juiced but there was a doctor they all went to for blood work, anti-estrogens, and the like.  You won't know who they are unless you're connected into that scene.

[Cormacaroni]

fair enough

[Smooth Groove]

Blue, why can't you work out without your dad?

[Cormacaroni]

needs a chaperone

[TakingBackSunday]

dutch ruddering in the locker room

[Cormacaroni]

t-shirt weather at last

SUN'S OUT GUNS OUT Y'ALL

[Eric P]

snowing here

so over it

[BlueTsunami]

Blue, why can't you work out without your dad?

its a weird situation with him. I'm capable of doing it by myself but if I go in it'll throw us off sync and it'll prob make him all pissy cause he's the type that doesn't feel like he's being weak. But even then it may come to me just going in myself.

[MyNameIsMethodis]

friends with the nice weather coming up I plan on doing lots of hiking which I guess is considered cardio and since carb nite isnt compatible that well with cardio, should I look into going back to regular keto or possibly carb back loading or would I be fine with carb nite u guys think

edit: yes i did some research theres even a thread on page 1 of dangerously hardcore where they say too much exercise on carb nite is bad

[Cormacaroni]

how intense is this hiking? Unless you're going up serious inclines for hours at a stretch, i doubt it will really tip into the 'cardio' realm. It's not resistance training either so you're not going to get much benefit from carb backloading with it either. I don't see how full keto would help - that's just carb nite without the carb nite. I would just try eating more food those days and see how it goes. Bring some jerky and nuts along to snack on and you're probably good

[MyNameIsMethodis]

Cool thanks. I'm going to be trying to tackle every 4000-footer in NH so we're looking at like atleast 3 hours each hike, up to the final one being like a 12 hour round trip hike. I completed one in September which I plan on hitting up tomorrow and that's the middle of the road one that takes like 3 hours.

http://www.amc4000footer.org/wm4.htm

there's teh elevations

[Cormacaroni]

can you just plan your carb nites around these? Have the CN the night before so that your muscle glycogen is topped up, then go hike.

[MyNameIsMethodis]

yeah actually, thats a good idea too. thank you for the help.

[Groogrux]

I've taken a break off of Carb Nite for the last week and a half.  I'm going to start back on it tomorrow.  The heartburn is enough to make me go back.   

[Dickie Dee]

I was sick a couple weeks ago and fell off a bit (shitty packaged chicken noodle soup was my downfall, of all things - it was hitting the spot for reasons that elude me) and haven't quite gotten back on the ULC wagon, though have been sticking to around 50-80g a day and then stretching my carb "nite" over the weekend. 

Not ideal of course but my weight mostly plateaued and maybe went down a couple pounds. This week I'm back on track though.

[Cormacaroni]

haha, this is what happens when the thread dies for a week, you all leap off the wagon with both feet

[Groogrux]

haha, this is what happens when the thread dies for a week, you all leap off the wagon with both feet

  Pretty much!

This is the only place I get to talk about my progress and get feedback on it.  I have a blog that nobody reads or comments on, and I have a member log over at Dangerously Hardcore, which is pretty much the same.

That's the bad thing about trying to lose weight in an area like this.  Doing any kind of "low carb" diet is considered radical around here, and dieting in itself is pretty much taboo.  I have no at-home support system.

[Cormacaroni]

where is the blog?

i live with a fucking vegetarian remember, try that

[Groogrux]

http://www.fatnicians.com/

All I've got here is my son, who can't do Carb Nite with me.  My family, when at their best, are fad dieters.  The last thing they told me about was this shake they were making that mostly consisted of blueberries, strawberries, and wheat grass.   

My sister wants to force my brother-in-law into going to the same gym as me, but he's not interested.  He's a diabetic, but he's gained 40lbs in the last year since they got married.  The guy drinks gallons of diet Mountain Dew and smokes Black and Milds.  Otherwise, he's sitting on his ass when I see him.  The rest of my family just thinks I'm crazy for doing low-carb diets. 

[Groogrux]

I could be totally wrong, but aren't MRE's designed to be the complete nutritional package (by American dieting standards) when you're out in the field?  Or does the military just throw whatever shit they can find into a bag because it will stand the test of time?

[Shadow Mod]

Been doing squats and benching 

[Cormacaroni]

Robb Wolf covers eating Paleo in the military in Kuwait on the latest, 38.58 mins in


http://robbwolf.com/2013/03/05/toxins-hormesis-episode-173/

[Smooth Groove]

Cormac, can you please recommend some Omega 3 oils?

I remember you saying something recently about how it has to be liver oil or something like that

Been doing squats and benching 

Can you bench 2 plates?

[Groogrux]

Cormac, while we're in Q&A mode:  Do you think it would be better for me to do CBL instead of CNS?  I like to work out at least 3 times a week, and I know at least two of those days have lower energy levels since starting CNS.

[Shadow Mod]

Can you bench 2 plates?

More like 15.

[TakingBackSunday]

squats for devo?

dat ass?

[Shadow Mod]

squats for devo?

dat ass?

Workin' on it. It's pretty decent considering how skinny I am but it could definitely be more dat ass-ish. Mostly I need more strength all around. =/.