So what's the over/under on BioShock 2 not being very good?

[The Fake Shemp]

 

[Stoney Mason]

I don't quite understand the lashback at this title so far most people have.

Early actual impressions or reviews from most people who have played it have been positive.

Yes it has multiplayer in a game that probably didn't need it but so do most titles nowadays.

[cool breeze]

I don't quite understand the lashback at this title so far most people have.

It's mostly because it seems identical to the first game, except now with multiplayer!

I'm still buying it thinking that, at worst, it will just be more Bioshock with improved combat.

unambitious was the word I was thinking of.

[duckman2000]

Bioshock felt like a genuine one-off, something as rare as a complete game. I'm sure the sequel will be good in its own right, but if there is one game released this generation that honestly felt like it didn't call for a sequel, Bioshock would be it.

[Stoney Mason]

I don't quite understand the lashback at this title so far most people have.

It's mostly because it seems identical to the first game, except now with multiplayer!

Hmmmm.... I think that is the case with most games which seems like what people would want if they liked the original game.

The best part of Bioshock was the story (not the combat) which no one knew before the game came out. So it seems like it will be necessary to play it just like the first to see if that aspect is up to snuff.

[Stoney Mason]

Bioshock felt like a genuine one-off, something as rare as a complete game. I'm sure the sequel will be good in its own right, but if there is one game released this generation that honestly felt like it didn't call for a sequel, Bioshock would be it.

This is the other bit that people seem to voice that I don't quite get. (I mean I understand it sort of)


This is an industry full of "franchises". If any game is popular you will see more of it. This is the rule of videogames. Some of you guys have played the same franchises since you were kids or at least for the better part of a decade and get quite excited by them. It seems like for some reason people are putting this one on a pedastal unlike any other franchise.

Not trying to come off like a fanboy of the series. I liked the original but I also had issues with it so I'm curious to see this one.

The only real drawback to me is that the original people aren't making it. That's a legit reason to be concerned at least since I'm more attracted to what devs bring to the table rather than individual properties.

[duckman2000]

I don't quite understand the lashback at this title so far most people have.

It's mostly because it seems identical to the first game, except now with multiplayer!

Hmmmm.... I think that is the case with most games which seems like what people would want if they liked the original game.

The best part of Bioshock was the story (not the combat) which no one knew before the game came out. So it seems like it will be necessary to play it just like the first to see if that aspect is up to snuff.

Eh, I didn't think the story was all that grand. Certainly above average for the shooter format, but the main appeal of the game was the presentation and Rapture itself. I gave critics plenty of shit for unjustly praising the game for its supposedly groundbreaking gameplay, when the true point of praise should have probably been in reference to the contained game world.

The latter might be enough reason to check out the sequel since it's bound to have more amazing sets, but I felt content after Bioshock.

[demi]

Condemend - awesome
Condemned 2 - disgustingly awful

NMH - awesome
NMH2 - good in one area, bad in the rest

Bioshock - awesome
Bioshock 2 - ...


not a good track record for "one off" games with sequels

[Stoney Mason]

Eh, I didn't think the story was all that grand. Certainly above average for the shooter format, but the main appeal of the game was the presentation and Rapture itself. I gave critics plenty of shit for unjustly praising the game for its supposedly groundbreaking gameplay, when the true point of praise should have probably been in reference to the contained game world.

The latter might be enough reason to check out the sequel since it's bound to have more amazing sets, but I felt content after Bioshock.

Well the actual universe and theme I consider part of the story but I hear your point. It had a nice backdrop and mood and setting which provides the characterization and probably the draw for some people.

[cool breeze]

I don't quite understand the lashback at this title so far most people have.

It's mostly because it seems identical to the first game, except now with multiplayer!

Hmmmm.... I think that is the case with most games which seems like what people would want if they liked the original game.

The best part of Bioshock was the story (not the combat) which no one knew before the game came out. So it seems like it will be necessary to play it just like the first to see if that aspect is up to snuff.

Well, I look at Mass Effect 2 and it fixed problems from ME1 and managed to do a lot more.  Assassin's Creed 2 was the same way for me.  Or even something like Dead Space 2 that isn't out yet but what they've shown and said sounds great.

Bioshock 2 seems like they're out to recreate the first game with really only the combat fixed.  The first big problem is that they don't seem to be expanding on the strength of bioshock, which a you said was the story and atmosphere.  I remember some of the complains with the first game was how transparent the choice to harvest or safe little sisters was.  That hasn't changed.  Now it's either harvest or adopt, and all adopt does is add an extra step that involves more combat to protect the little sister (I hated that sequence in the first game, btw).

[Eel O'Brian]

people eat up the same fps remade over and over and try to excuse away that they bought what is essentially a $60 map pack

it's a game, it has no integrity of mythos or whatever the fuck, so more of what i like is fine with me as long as i don't have to fight another giant laughing distinguished mentally-challenged fellow at the end (spoilers)

[duckman2000]

This is the other bit that people seem to voice that I don't quite get. (I mean I understand it sort of)


This is an industry full of "franchises". If any game is popular you will see more of it. It seems like for some reason people are putting this one on a pedastal unlike any other franchise.

Just about every other game is also markedly incomplete, with far too many blatantly ending in cliffhangers and blunt references to a sequel. A complete game is all but non-existent, which is why Bioshock was refreshing. It felt like a complete game, not cut by budget and franchising concerns. I don't hold it against them, considering that Bioshock was quite the success, but it's mostly uninteresting to me. We'll see.

Anyone remember the "best ending" thread? I voted for Uncharted 2, not because the ending was spectacular or even good, but because it was damned well the only game I had played all year that had a real ending. It's sort of a remarkable situation.

[iconoclast]

Condemned 2 had that bear chase sequence... so it wasn't all bad.

As for BS2, I loved the first game, but I could not possibly care less about the sequel. Not a single thing that they've shown so far has looked the least bit interesting to me. Still going to at least rent it some day though, might even buy it on release depending on deals.

[duckman2000]

Condemned 2 was just incredible. Why in the hell they thought that a combo multiplier would be a good fit for the sequel to the minimal Condemned is beyond me.

[Stoney Mason]

Well, I look at Mass Effect 2 and it fixed problems from ME1 and managed to do a lot more.  Assassin's Creed 2 was the same way for me.  Or even something like Dead Space 2 that isn't out yet but what they've shown and said sounds great.

Bioshock 2 seems like they're out to recreate the first game with really only the combat fixed.  The first big problem is that they don't seem to be expanding on the strength of bioshock, which a you said was the story and atmosphere.  I remember some of the complains with the first game was how transparent the choice to harvest or safe little sisters was.  That hasn't changed.  Now it's either harvest or adopt, and all adopt does is add an extra step that involves more combat to protect the little sister (I hated that sequence in the first game, btw).

We'll see I guess. I just think it comes down to execution. For all the stuff that AC2 changed it still has a shitload of core fundamental problems. I'd be much more happy with the core experience being tightened in most sequels rather than adding a whole bunch of new shit just for the sake of adding new shit.

Like I said, my biggest fear has more to do with the idea that the game has switched devs and some of the core vision may have been lost storywise. Not that Bioshock is somehow the only proper "off-one" in videogame history. (comment not necessarily aimed at you)

[demi]

My guess: I think BioShock 2 will be good. Not great... but good. The multiplayer will bog the entire package down however. They always focus too much on the multi with these games, and the SP gets fucked in the process.

[Eel O'Brian]

condemned 2 sucked so bad i actually contemplated breaking the game disc

[cool breeze]

I don't think there is any game that needs to be a one-off as long as there is a good idea for a sequel.  There doesn't seem to be a good idea for Bioshock 2.  Like, consider some movie sequels like Terminator 2 or Aliens.  Terminator 1 and Alien were thriller movies rather than the more action movie sequels.  They are set apart from the original movies despite having a lot of similarities.  Bioshock 2 didn't need to be Bioshock again.  The ending was so open that they could have had a better idea than "so, you're a big daddy in rapture and there is a new leader with a different political view".  Maybe they switch things up on you at some point in the game and it will become really awesome at that point.  This is all just based on what I've seen so far and all I think of it is how unambitious it seems.  Realistically I'm hating on it a bit more because I keep thinking there was a Bioshock 2 that 'could have been' I would have been excited for.  I liked Bioshock a lot and this sequel does very little for me.  I'm always open to being proven wrong when it's released.

Bioshock 2 should have been: Andrew Ryan survives, becomes a drunk, grows a beard, and wanders around an empty rapture beating up the physical manifestations of his drinking problem not knowing if what he's fighting is in his head or just the homeless people who stuck around.  He does this with his fist.  There is also a Bear loose in Rapture who wears Big Daddy armor.

[maxy]

I don't know,i am still confused about this game...and i remember the day when Bioshock demo hit Live like it was yesterday.

It will be a great game,but it feels like something that was never supposed to exist.

Elcor.....................CONFUSED

[The Fake Shemp]

Yeah, I love BioShock. I still own it. I had the Big Daddy until it broke.

... but this doesn't look that great. It does sound an awful lot like Condemned 2.

[Bebpo]

I actually started replaying Bioshock 1 to refresh the gameplay/story for 2 like with Mass Effect.

But now that I think about it, if Bio2's is pretty much the same game than playing them back to back will just make Bio2 worse because I'll be sick of it by then.   >_<

[Stoney Mason]

Bioshock is one of those games that isn't made for a second playthrough. (Nothing wrong with that. I generally only want to play most games once) The hook is the story and the twist. The combat in general is rather meh so its not enough of a challenge or mechanically sound enough with is combat engine to go again through it again for my tastes.

[Bebpo]

Bioshock is one of those games that isn't made for a second playthrough. (Nothing wrong with that. I generally only want to play most games once) The hook is the story and the twist. The combat in general is rather meh so its not enough of a challenge or mechanically sound enough with is combat engine to go again through it again for my tastes.

Eh, I'm at the 2nd area (the fishery) and I would very much disagree.  I hadn't played it since the week it came out and playing it now, the game still holds up very well.  The gameplay is ok, but the atmosphere of the locations is still very impressive.  The only thing that doesn't hold up is the hacking and the combat is kinda ho-hum.

I wouldn't call it a timeless classic at this point, but it's still very good on replay.

[iconoclast]

I replayed Bioshock about a year and a half ago and actually wound up liking it a lot more my second time through. I picked up some parts of the story I missed (or forgot) the first time around and wound up liking the game more as a result. Plus I found the gameplay more fun when doing the additional Brass Balls achievement, so maybe that has something to do with it.

I'm sure Bioshock 2 is going to be a good game though. Maybe not as fresh as BS1 was, but still definitely worth playing.

[ManaByte]

Isn't it an entirely new dev team?

[The Sceneman]

we need Green Man in here stat

[Bebpo]

Isn't it an entirely new dev team?

I think it's half the team.  I know the main guy left and probably took some staff with him.  The head guy in this one is the guy who designed the fort frolic section of Bio1.

[maxy]

Gamespot has "first 12 minutes"-not the first 12,it shows some area,hacking,some new weapons,minimal spoilers

http://www.gamespot.com/shows/now-playing/?event=now_playing_bioshock_220100129&tag=topslot;img;2#toggle_video

Looks fun

[CHOW CHOW]

My guess: I think BioShock 2 will be good. Not great... but good. The multiplayer will bog the entire package down however. They always focus too much on the multi with these games, and the SP gets fucked in the process.

They contracted another dev to create the multi-player so the main team didn't waste time on it

I think game will be great

[pilonv1]

single player will be very good
multiplayer will be an utter disaster

[CHOW CHOW]

i'm thinking about canceling my preorder and just renting it now
the reason i was gonna buy was for the multi-player...it sounds cool with the customization and stuff, but there's so many AAA multi-player games around this time that idk if it's worth it. 

mw2
left 4 dead 2
bad company 2

who's gonna wanna play bioshock 2 multi?  yeah i'm just gonna rent this

[Stoney Mason]

Obviously don't click if you don't want spoilers.

[youtube=560,345][/youtube]

[Third]

Bioshock aged pretty bad. And this onle looks exactly like the first one.

[Bildi]

The great thing about Bioshock was experiencing something new and intriguing.  From trailers I have almost no interest in this carbon copy at the moment.

[Stoney Mason]

While I think people are sort of having rose colored glassed about the single player in the original bioshock I will say that nothing they've shown about the MP in Bioshock 2 looks interesting. Looks like some Quake style shit. Why is everybody packed into these tiny rooms?

[youtube=560,345][/youtube]

[Great Rumbler]

The great thing about Bioshock was experiencing something new and intriguing.  From trailers I have almost no interest in this carbon copy at the moment.

Yeah, I kind of feel the same way. I just have no hype for this whatsoever even though I really loved the first game.

[drew]

Condemend - awesome
Condemned 2 - disgustingly awful

lol im about to start playin this

just got one quick question

why am i fighting tar people?

[demi]

sorry i dont answer racist questions

spoiler (click to show/hide)

thats not even the worst part

[close]

[drew]

is the werst part the multi?

because that sucked pretty hard too

[demi]

I'd say bear in the cabin tops that

Then the plot twist where you discover you are part of an ancient clan and can scream like Sindel thanks to some plates in your throat

[drew]

 

[duckman2000]

While I think people are sort of having rose colored glassed about the single player in the original bioshock

I don't know about that. I was plenty critical of the game, and of the critics who deemed it a groundbreaking game. But, it was still a well styled adventure in a fascinating, unique and tangible game world. It's definitely one of those games where the strength of the setting and scenario outweighed weaknesses elsewhere, such as repeated scenarios and clunky combat. The fact that it owed a lot of its quality to the freshness of the setting can also hurt the sequel. Anyway, I think it deserves praise, but not for the reasons that critics praised it.

[Eel O'Brian]

demi tricked me into playing condemned 2 multiplayer with him just so he could spread the pain around

[Eel O'Brian]

also bioshock has a stupid, almost game-ruining ending

if they can avoid that bioshock 2 already has a leg up on the first

[demi]

LMAO you wanted to play online. whats this... throwin me under the bus

[Eel O'Brian]

you lied and said it was pretty good!

[demi]

Had to do some searching... you right, I did say it was a neat distraction, only on DM though. And that's what we played! I still think throwing toilet seats across the room for kills is awesome.

Lots of Condemned 2 impressions from us here - http://www.evilbore.com/forum/index.php?topic=18686.45

[Bildi]

I loved Condemned 2.  I should post a glowing review in that thread.

[demi]

Might be hard to do when you are banned...

[maxy]

Got the OXM issue:

-The Big Sister story has been nixed completely and has very little to do with the plot. They even go as far to say that the story barely touches on them at all and their motivations and backstory are never mentioned. What a waste... What happened to their tragic story 2K spent months hyping up? How could they scrap something that big?

-The Brute Splicers and... another enemy type... seem like nothing more than tougher versions of the Big Daddies.

-Spider Splicers are now rare and are very scary when they do show up.

-The Splicers' savage behavior grows tiresome.(?)

-The middle of the game is slow, of course.

-The final act is amazing and has some great payoff.

-Sticks too close to the original game's conventions and patterns.

Overall score- 9.5

Before you start moaning,here is what 2K Marin Creative Director had to say about Big Sisters,

What I've been trying (and perhaps failing) to make clear to the press is that the original intent for the character is there, but in a strikingly different form than the one we initially pitched the public. One that, to be honest, I'm more satisfied with.
He may not have realized the connection, but that's the price we pay for revealing too much about our nascent backstory too early in development!

Bioshock 2

[ManaByte]

[Madrun Badrun]

also bioshock has a stupid, almost game-ruining ending

remind me of what this is again?

[Eel O'Brian]

spoiler (click to show/hide)

you fight a giant adam-infused fontaine, it was so out of place

[close]

[Madrun Badrun]

O right.  That was bad, but not as bad as game-ruining. 

[Eel O'Brian]

that was why i said almost

[brawndolicious]

Even though it was a "sandbox" game, it is odd that it didn't have any real side-missions.  You were constantly following the main story  for ~20 hours and I kind of liked that.

[Bildi]

Might be hard to do when you are banned...

Cockblocked.

I really liked the bear in the cabin bit though.

[iconoclast]

Well, I cracked. Used my $10 Amazon gift card from ME2 to pre-order this. Better be awesome.

And the bear chase in Condemned 2 was the only good part of the game. And the hobo-arena.

[Stoney Mason]

Sigh. Please stop using CG to advertise your game people. 

Just show the game. Or if you must do something like the ODST commercials.

[youtube=560,345][/youtube]


Also this.

[youtube=560,345][/youtube]


And this.

[youtube=560,345][/youtube]

[chronovore]

I'm up for more of the same Bioshock just the same as I was up for more of System Shock 2. It's a fun ride, and Bioshock 1 was nearly the top of its form.

Isn't this Bioshock 1 team, minus Ken Levine because no-one was willing to work with him for a Round 2?