So what's the over/under on BioShock 2 not being very good?

[GilloD]

Also GilloD is high when he said he had tons of ADAM. What are you doing, killing the little brats? I -wish- I could buy whatever I wanted.

Nah, yo. Get that tonic that increases their Adam output. I get like 200+ from each one. I cnat buy EVERYTHING, but half the Plasmids/Tonics are useless anyway

[cool breeze]

Multiplayer is kinda alright.  Hacking things in the environment is neat if not limited, and the mix of plasmid and all the hazards in the level is nice.  Shooting feels pretty weak and doesn't have much feedback.  The Big Daddy suit is kinda lame.

Only major problem I have with multiplayer is PC specific, and that's locking it at 30 fps for multiplayer.  It's pretty jarring when you played the single player at 60.  No blurring makes it seem very choppy, though, it's not something I can't get used to.

Also GilloD is high when he said he had tons of ADAM. What are you doing, killing the little brats? I -wish- I could buy whatever I wanted.

Nah, yo. Get that tonic that increases their Adam output. I get like 200+ from each one. I cnat buy EVERYTHING, but half the Plasmids/Tonics are useless anyway

yeah, really only lightening and fire are necessary for victory.  I finished the game with 1250 adam left over. 

[Bebpo]

Only major problem I have with multiplayer is PC specific, and that's locking it at 30 fps for multiplayer.  It's pretty jarring when you played the single player at 60.  No blurring makes it seem very choppy, though, it's not something I can't get used to.

First Dragon Age, now this.  Seriously FUCK developers who cap FPS on PC games.  Especially if it's not consistent and some parts are 60fps and some are capped 30fps.

[fistfulofmetal]

the level after Ryan Amusements was pretty cool.

fighting big sisters blows. pointless enemy thats not fun to fight.

[GilloD]

Gonna power through the rest today. Gonna harvest them lil ladies.

[demi]

Did a total of 2 matches (1 disconnected) and I completely dominated. Got Big Daddy suit twice

[huckleberry]

the level after Ryan Amusements was pretty cool.

fighting big sisters blows. pointless enemy thats not fun to fight.

Fucking blow on Hard.  I have tried to kill this bitch like 25 times and keep getting murdered.  I don't think I will be getting the achievement for finishing the game on hard. 

[demi]

Errr? Big Sister is cake on Hard. Zap her then plug her up. Repeat.

[Bebpo]

the level after Ryan Amusements was pretty cool.

fighting big sisters blows. pointless enemy thats not fun to fight.

Fucking blow on Hard.  I have tried to kill this bitch like 25 times and keep getting murdered.  I don't think I will be getting the achievement for finishing the game on hard. 

Are you going for the no-vita chamber achievement or something?  I mean otherwise she should keep her health when you respawn, right?  So you just chip her down over many deaths.

[huckleberry]

Yeah, going for no vita chamber achievement.  My last 3 save before her yield nothing.

Demi - been shocking and plugging but she gets me with about %10 of her health left every time....

I will get it eventually - just venting.

[Stoney Mason]

Playing on whatever is the default difficulty but the game isn't tough (neither was the original) so its weird to see a lot of comments as such in the GAF thread. It's neat that they create the mystique of the big sister but then they sort of puss out when it comes to actually making her a challenge which is unfortunate.

[Ichirou]

I liked the idea of there being just one Big Sister stalking you throughout the game.  Shame they got rid of that.

[pilonv1]

Dragon age was capped on pc? I don't recall that.

[Bebpo]

Dragon age was capped on pc? I don't recall that.

whenever you talk to someone it suddenly drops to locked 30fps
then you say goodbye and it's 60fps again

I find it very jarring and it pisses me off.  Maybe there is a way to turn it off.

[GilloD]

Finished! Be careful, I only harvested 1 sister and I was flagged as "Bad" at the end. Ending was dumb, but no silly boss this time. There is one part of the final level that is really amazing and you should suffer to get to it. Story sucked, game was okay. Rental City on this one.

[GilloD]

Also, the conclusion to the Mark Meltzer story is a nice little touch.

[Eel O'Brian]

still hate hacking even though they changed it

i pretty much hate that kind of minigame in every video game, though

[Eel O'Brian]

Finished! Be careful, I only harvested 1 sister and I was flagged as "Bad" at the end.

if i remember correctly that happens in the first game, too

i guess it's all or nothing as far as that goes

[Eel O'Brian]

Playing on whatever is the default difficulty but the game isn't tough (neither was the original) so its weird to see a lot of comments as such in the GAF thread. It's neat that they create the mystique of the big sister but then they sort of puss out when it comes to actually making her a challenge which is unfortunate.

depends

i got caught without a lot of ammo and eve once and she nearly killed me

[cool breeze]

Finished! Be careful, I only harvested 1 sister and I was flagged as "Bad" at the end.

if i remember correctly that happens in the first game, too

i guess it's all or nothing as far as that goes

yeah, but you now have several other factors that affect the outcome.

[The Fake Shemp]

Eel is right behind me, but the farther I go into the game, the more difficult it becomes to fight off waves of splicers trying to get to the Little Sister. I got screwed depleting my ammo and EVE while defending a Little Sister, so when the Big Sister came right afterwards - she whooped me.

[Eel O'Brian]

also, i wish when you run out of ammo it would just automatically skip to the next available weapon that has ammo

there's basically just too many fucking button and d-pad presses in this game for it to be a fast-paced shooter

[The Fake Shemp]

Valid complaint.

[The Fake Shemp]

This game feels bigger than the original.

[Stoney Mason]

depends

i got caught without a lot of ammo and eve once and she nearly killed me

The very first time its tricky because you don't know she is coming but after that you essentially trigger when she comes so its easy to stock up for the occasion. But then maybe later in the game she comes at random times that I haven't got to yet.

[Stoney Mason]

Eel is right behind me, but the farther I go into the game, the more difficult it becomes to fight off waves of splicers trying to get to the Little Sister. I got screwed depleting my ammo and EVE while defending a Little Sister

Are you using the mini-turrets, and traps? Between that and the various sentry bots you can bring along and repair the defense bits aren't very consuming of ammo or health packs for me anymore

[Eel O'Brian]

i'm forever accidentally selecting the wrong kind of ammo and wasting it in the heat of a splicer swarm

that shitty 360 d-pad doesn't help any

[Stoney Mason]

i'm forever accidentally selecting the wrong kind of ammo and wasting it in the heat of a splicer swarm

that shitty 360 d-pad doesn't help any

I don't have a problem with that but occasionally I'll forget which plasmid I'm on and use the wrong thing from a prior encounter or just a one off use of a plasmid like telekinesis. .

It's weird also but there is this odd delay when you go to switch your plasmid or weapon that always throws me off and sometimes gets me in trouble. I'm expecting the game to pause and it either doesn't or does it after a delay where I let go thinking it didn't work and start a cycle of screwing up trying to hit the button to pause the game and switch plasmids or weapons. It's strange because its fairly close conceptually to the system in Mass Effect 2 but I never had the problem there because there was no delay. It always worked and it always worked immediately.

Also while the camera is conceptually an improvement over the first game, its still clunky the way you have to switch to it and then switch back to your weapon. They could have just made it a button press to trigger like push in left thumbstick or something since its more like a video recorder and all you need to do is start it. But I guess they are using pretty much all the buttons so maybe there isn't a spare one.

[Eel O'Brian]

also, it should automatically apply a med kit from your inventory when you run out of health instead of you having to click right on the d-pad

that's just smh-level stupid game design

[maxy]

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digitalfoundry-bioshock2-face-off-article

In terms of purchasing decisions for those who own both HD consoles, it's fairly self-evident that the Xbox 360 version of BioShock 2 is the one to have: graphics are undoubtedly superior with four times the resolution on transparencies, the frame-rate is undoubtedly smoother, there's no HDD-sapping mandatory installation and control varies from slightly crisper to considerably more responsive, depending on the status of the PS3's frame-rate at any given point.

[BamYouHaveAids]

also, it should automatically apply a med kit from your inventory when you run out of health instead of you having to click right on the d-pad

that's just smh-level stupid game design

that is a stupid complaint, if they did that there would be no incentive to check your health. it's like saying the game should automatically fire at an enemy when your reticle is on them.

[Eel O'Brian]

your eve automatically injects when you run out, so it is in fact a valid complaint

you'd still only have what you were carrying, so you'd still die when you run out completely

[Stoney Mason]

The reason why it doesn't auto-inject health is that if you kill the person who is hitting you or run away or something you can stay on the current number of health packs and just eat food to get it back up without having to actually use a health pack. Although of course the way combat works in that game I almost always just go ahead and use it.

It seems like a reasonable approach to me if not slightly different system health system than what most games use nowadays although having the med-kit health button on the right d-pad is somewhat awkward to get to in the heat of battle.

[demi]

Swapping guns and plasmids could have been much more fluid than it is. A radial dial like Mass Effect would improve it greatly

As it is, its like - pause - swap - pause - swap

[maxy]

Yeah,swapping guns and plasmids is really clunky,the worst thing is when you want to change plasmids,but you hit guns swapping button,there is a small pause after you release gun button and press plasmids one. 

[The Fake Shemp]

Swapping guns and plasmids could have been much more fluid than it is. A radial dial like Mass Effect would improve it greatly

As it is, its like - pause - swap - pause - swap

... There is a radial dial.

[demi]

Yes, and it enforces my point - it's slow and clunk

Speaking from Hard difficulty of course. Normal and below dont address me, thanks

[The Fake Shemp]

You want a radial dial that moves as fast as Mass Effect 2, is what you're saying?

[iconoclast]

The only thing that sucks about the radial dial is you can move it with both the left analog and right analog. Sometimes it messes me up as I use the right analog to select my weapons but press the left analog too early...

Anyway, does anyone know if there's a Gatherer's Garden on

spoiler (click to show/hide)

Inner Persephone, the final level

[close]

? I just arrived there but I don't see one on the map (unless it only appears as you discover the area, can't remember). I have 1000 ADAM and nothing to spend it on... And I still haven't bought all 11 basic types of plasmids for that achievement Guess I might have to load up an earlier save for it...

edit: There's one right at the start of the level actually.

[cool breeze]

your eve automatically injects when you run out, so it is in fact a valid complaint

you'd still only have what you were carrying, so you'd still die when you run out completely

The eve thing is more a carryover from the first game.  It honestly doesn't make sense since you can't re-inject yourself.  Many times when playing BS2 I just shot off some lightening so I can pick up another eve container.

I understand the health thing, though.  A lot of times in a fight I'd rather run to a hacked healing station if I have 1/6th health rather than use a health pack.  I only used healthpacks when I went aggro on an enemy and didn't want to let them run away from my vicious assault.

[iconoclast]

You can re-inject yourself actually. I didn't notice it until today, just bring up the radial menu and there's an option to refill your eve or health.

The med kits are fine. If they refilled automatically you'd basically just have 6 health bars. Having to use them manually makes you keep an eye on your health.

[cool breeze]

PC version has no radial menu and no key command to set it.  Inferior version 

 

[Eel O'Brian]

man, i just don't like this game very much

i can buy the reasoning for the health - i don't care for it, but i can buy it

but not auto switching to the next type of ammo when you're out, and the clunky weapon/plasmid switching just makes every single battle an unnecessary hassle and not very fun at all

and while you're supposed to be this badass big daddy you really never feel like it, you're no different than the human from the first game other than having a drill on your arm

thanks, gamefly

you're slow as fucking molasses but you saved me $60

[The Fake Shemp]

I dunno, the drill charge and melee attacks and higher powered plasmids make me feel pretty badass. I don't think he's supposed to be the typical Big Daddy either.

It's flawed, but I really dig it. I think I've enjoyed the gameplay more this time around, even if I enjoyed the story/setting less.

[cool breeze]

The only actions I really had a problem with was the camera.  It should have just been a button you held down and not it's own tool.  At least the hack tool has the mini turret option.  The worst part was, if you fully researched an enemy and took a picture of them, the game wouldn't switch to another weapon.  There were times when I took five pictures in a row just because I expected it to switch to my drill or w/e after the first shot.

[Stoney Mason]

The you being a big daddy thing is certainly a conceit since you clearly aren't but I'm fine with it. Putting on the suit in the original game sucked. For gameplay purposes I'm fine that I'm a "Big Daddy" but one that handles exactly like the guy in the first game.

[demi]

There's a glitch at Fontaine Futuristics that lets you go outside the map. Lolz

Cant do much with it though.

[iconoclast]

You play as the first ever Big Daddy though don't you? And then the Alpha Daddies are essentially the same as the Delta you play as right? Alphas are weak too, you can kill them in a few seconds even on Hard. So I'm okay with it. Plus, once you acquire the lunge the drill is badass.

[demi]

haha, the "twist" (?) is kinda weak. at least, i think this is supposed to be a twist.

[iconoclast]

Yeah it's not much of a twist. More along the lines of "well, that was unexpected" than "oh shiiii-." The ending is pretty cool at least.

I really enjoyed this though. Overall I'd say it's a better game than Bioshock, but it falls short in most other areas (story, characters, writing, atmosphere). All I have left are the multiplayer achievements now and I'm in no rush finish them...

[Fragamemnon]

but not auto switching to the next type of ammo when you're out, and the clunky weapon/plasmid switching just makes every single battle an unnecessary hassle and not very fun at all

On the PC it's really smooth-I have ammo swap bound to a side mouse button, and number keys change guns, F-keys change plasmids. Really smooth, though you'd want to remap the zoom key to a mouse button as well IMO.

and while you're supposed to be this badass big daddy you really never feel like it, you're no different than the human from the first game other than having a drill on your arm

Totally agreed with this, they could have at least upped the volume of fire to explain why you get beat down so bad.

[Stoney Mason]

I'll probably finish it up tomorrow. I've enjoyed it.

[Eel O'Brian]

i'll have to try it on pc sometime (steam holiday sale), because i'm not having any fun at all on the console version

i'm actually starting to actively hate it and just want it to be over, although i do like the story well enough

other little things have been pissing me off as well, like the fact that almost every single splicer seems to walk untouched straight  through any traps i set up (not talking about the houdini ones), any ammo on corpses is ammo i already have so i'm always barely scraping by, stuff costs too much (even with the discount perks) for the amount of cash given to you, mines and turrets sometimes disappear into the floor far enough that you can't pick them back up again, etc

i pretty much want to stop playing this one and just replay the first one

[Stoney Mason]

i pretty much want to stop playing this one and just replay the first one

See that's the weird part to me. All of that stuff is in the first and arguably a lot worse.

I sort of understand if somebody doesn't groove with the story as much on a personal level and that takes the immersion factor out of it for them but Bioshock 2 gameplay wise is the same as Bioshock 1 but mostly improved. It's small improvements to be sure but it's improved. I can think of at least 5 or 6 ways off the top of my head. Where its clunky in some places is where its the same. Which is in a lot of places of course.

[demi]

This entire game is the opposite of the first one. When you say "lets not do this" you dont literally do that.

BioShock - great first half, weak rest

BioShock 2 - weak 3/4, great 1/4

[cool breeze]

i pretty much want to stop playing this one and just replay the first one

See that's the weird part to me. All of that stuff is in the first and arguably a lot worse.

I sort of understand if somebody doesn't groove with the story as much on a personal level and that takes the immersion factor out of it for them but Bioshock 2 gameplay wise is the same as Bioshock 1 but mostly improved. It's small improvements to be sure but it's improved. I can think of at least 5 or 6 ways off the top of my head. Where its clunky in some places is where its the same. Which is in a lot of places of course.

The big thing Bioshock 2 lacks is the feeling of being in a city that went to shit.  Bioshock 2 levels feel like levels from a video game.  Bioshock 1 felt like locations that you could see people living around.  I mean, I don't know if I would say it's their intention since locations in Bioshock 2 aren't as residential as the first game.  Still that appeal of feeling like you were in a believable location goes a long way.  I didn't feel the need to explore or look around in Bioshock 2 because the locations weren't as interesting. 

[Stoney Mason]

The big thing Bioshock 2 lacks is the feeling of being in a city that went to shit.  Bioshock 2 levels feel like levels from a video game.  Bioshock 1 felt like locations that you could see people living around.  I mean, I don't know if I would say it's their intention since locations in Bioshock 2 aren't as residential as the first game.  Still that appeal of feeling like you were in a believable location goes a long way.  I didn't feel the need to explore or look around in Bioshock 2 because the locations weren't as interesting. 

Neither game felt like a city to me personally outside of a few specific bed rooms or special rooms they decked out very well.

I will agree that the environments seems smaller from what I remember of Bioshock not that the original had these massive environments or anything but these seem smaller by comparison and the game is more linear with its design.

The more significant difference to me is that the scripted bits were better and more defined in Bioshock which is an immersion factor.

[demi]

That ending was really good.

[cool breeze]

PC version got a patch that makes the intro movies unskippable, causes game breaking lag (you can't even walk in a straight line), and random game crashes.

If I didn't think multiplayer was somewhat enjoyable I wouldn't find this so funny.  PC Gaming 

The best was trying to walk through a doorway for 30 seconds only to appear on either the right or the left of it against a wall.

[Stoney Mason]

Tried the multiplayer for man than a few matches to get a real impression.

My impression is this isn't going to last or really draw a crowd.


It suffers from the same problem that a lot of single player games that incorporate MP do. The game mechanics and controls while good enough for a single player game just aren't tight enough for a multiplayer game. Same as with games like Metal Gear Solid, Resident Evil, almost certainly Assassin's Creed MP whenever that hits.

To really stand out in the crowd of the MP world you either have to have great control or brilliant ideas. And neither is on display enough here. It's fun enough for what it is which is mindless running around and killing but there just isn't enough meat on the bone so to speak. They were smart to add in MP achievements and the unlock system. Even though I don't enjoy playing it that much there is a strong temptation to keep on playing to see the unlocks and get the achievements which are pretty straightforward. It's not painful to play. It's not the worst MP game I've ever played. It's just mostly average and mostly average MP doesn't cut when you have some truly outstanding MP games on the market.