GDC Discussion Topic

[Jansen]

this thing will sell to a small fraction to existing ps3 owners and then sit in limbo until sony packs them in with the console at no extra cost or the ps4 comes along and it is standard.

basically all this thing will ever see after the initial wave of games is first party studios shoehorning it into their games and 3rd party wii ports.

[cool breeze]

It's more than $100

They said $100 for the camera, one MOVE, and a game.  Doesn't sound like it will include a second MOVE or the Subcontroller, which they stressed with optional.

[duckman2000]

This is the Husband solution. The Wii is primarily a soccer mom thing, and has been the torment of husbands and fathers everywhere since it launched. The woman finally agrees to getting a video game system, the Wii. The husband goes along with it, hoping that it will open the door for other systems. No dice. Enter the wand. Now the husband can say "yeah, but this one is like Wii but also plays blu-ray, which will make us special and it also has cool games that I want in the neighborhood and what not etc"

It won't work, but it's a strategy.

I haven't really been following this, but... this is like the most blatant ripoff since Avatar. This is probably more of a ripoff than Dante's Inferno was. Can't Nintendo sue the fuck out of Sony for pulling shit like this?

Seems like no more of a rip-off than Eyetoy +.

[Howard Alan Treesong]

dcharlie, do you at least admit that Natal is as terrible a platform-diluting fuckup as the Move?

[duckman2000]

they'll market it way better than Sony could possibly dream of.

So natal is a pure marketing ruse? I can agree with that. You'd think that people would be wary of anything that is spearheaded by Molyneux, but there doesn't seem to be a practical limit on how many times gaming news media can be duped. Also amazing that I have yet to see a single gaming news media dude address the whole "it's sort of like an Eyetoy" thing, but immediately pounce on the wand as a me-too gimmick. Have to hand it to MS, they sure know how to softly but firmly grab the balls of the industry reporters.

[duckman2000]

well, in reality it's NOT like the Eyetoy tech wise - as much as sfags want people to believe it - however, the fact they have been able to make that distinction without even trying is amazing.

Marketting ruse - it's not entirely true.

There is a camera and it tracks user input. That's the real demos we have seen, and they have all been very Eyetoy-ish. I'm not doubting that the tech and possible applications are plenty more refined, but then the same can be said for the wand vs the wiimote system.

And it's definitely been a marketing ruse, up to the point. The only demonstration that has gone beyond Eyetoy Advance was a smoke and mirrors bullshit demo narrated by the industry's chief bullshit artist.

[cool breeze]

Could you even sue of this stuff? I thought everyone was just kinda cool about it.  Nintendo and Microsoft basically copied the Dual Shock 1 and no one cared about that.  Or things like Lips, the Vision camera, etc.

[Bebpo]

I'm glad my shitty looking DS rpgs will not be affected by this motion future.

[ManaByte]

Could you even sue of this stuff? I thought everyone was just kinda cool about it.  Nintendo and Microsoft basically copied the Dual Shock 1 and no one cared about that.  Or things like Lips, the Vision camera, etc.

Nintendo had the rumble pak before the dual shock 1. And PCs had vibrating wheels and flight sticks before that.

[cool breeze]

are you kidding me with that response?

[Beezy]

I'm glad my shitty looking DS rpgs will not be affected by this motion future.

Shitty looking DS rpgs which also play like shit won't be affected. Whoop-tee-doo...

[M3wThr33]

Seems like no more of a rip-off than Eyetoy +.

I'm not super familiar with the Eyetoy +. But this Sony motion controller looks exactly the same as the Wiimote+nunchuck, except it's black and has a stupid looking ping pong ball attached to the end.

The PS Eye (EyeToy+) has a 5-mic array built-in with voice-recognition and such built-in. Sony's been improving those libraries for the last 4 years, except no one's used them at all outside of EyePet and Singstar.

The ball is actually the biggest benefit. It's what allows games to do 1:1 tracking. Instead of using the Wiimote camera in the tip to pick up the lights in the sensor bar, the ball is picked up by the PS Eye, REGARDLESS OF ANGLE. So it can combine that with the accelerometer data to get the true distance and orientation calculated. On the Wii, once you are no longer pointing at the sensor bar, it CAN'T track your orientation outside of estimating from movement on the accelerometer.

The Motion+ needs constant recalibration with the sensor bar and being placed flat. It really sucks.

[demi]

Could you even sue of this stuff? I thought everyone was just kinda cool about it.  Nintendo and Microsoft basically copied the Dual Shock 1 and no one cared about that.  Or things like Lips, the Vision camera, etc.

Nintendo had the rumble pak before the dual shock 1. And PCs had vibrating wheels and flight sticks before that.

MY MOMS VIBRATOR HAD RUMBLE BEFORE NINTENDO

[Stoney Mason]

lulz.

Sony needs to improve this since it's one of their "BIG FRANCHISES™"

Garnett Lee and I went hands-on with two pre-alpha titles here at GDC: SOCOM 4 and Sports Champions.


SOCOM 4, announced last week, is the latest in the franchise from founding developer Zipper Interactive. The game will support PlayStation Move and a quick tech demo was rigged up for the show. Players use a Move controller to aim and shoot and the poorly named "Sub-Controller", which includes an analog stick, to move around. It works a lot like the Wiimote and Nunchuk combo for Nintendo's Wii.

Unfortunately, the Move is actually a downgraded experience for aiming. Like the Wii, Move tracks where the player is pointing. This doesn't work well for shooters as it requires extremely precise movements easily accomplished on a mouse or with an analog stick. At almost every point during my brief hands-on with SOCOM 4, I considered asking the gentleman from Sony for a DualShock 3. If you are going to jump on the Move bandwagon, it won't be with SOCOM or any other shooter.

Here's what Garnett thought of Move with SOCOM 4:

We've had many an argument over whether shooters control better with controller sticks or mouse and keyboard. The Wii didn't bring pointing and nunchuks into those conversations. And after briefly playing SOCOM 4, neither does Move. From a strictly technical perspective, the enhanced sensitivity Sony's promoted in Move does work to make it a smoother experience. The crosshair tracks smoothly across the screen and once I had calibrated my head to its position I was able to move it where I wanted fairly easy.

The problem remains, though, of it being hard to hold the controller freely in space in front of me and make the many fine movements needed to play a shooter. I've even resorted to resting my forearm on my leg to give it a stable base when playing similar games on the Wii. It's only a partial solution but one that no amount of tech will potentially solve.

http://www.shacknews.com/onearticle.x/62746

[Sho Nuff]

Welp, there goes the industry. Guess it's time to polish up my barista skills

[maxy]

Socom was(is) the most played PS3 game,more than MW and WAW,not sure about MW2...maybe that is why Sony is pushing it like crazy

Unfortunately, the Move is actually a downgraded experience for aiming. Like the Wii, Move tracks where the player is pointing. This doesn't work well for shooters as it requires extremely precise movements easily accomplished on a mouse or with an analog stick. At almost every point during my brief hands-on with SOCOM 4, I considered asking the gentleman from Sony for a DualShock 3. If you are going to jump on the Move bandwagon, it won't be with SOCOM or any other shooter.

 
Why are they pushing this crap...bububu precision...just use mouse and keyboard you noobs

[Human Snorenado]

Welp, there goes the industry. Guess it's time to polish up my barista skills

We should just all move to Kentucky and get jobs at porn/liquor stores.

[maxy]

[pilonv1]

Will they get it though? No one is upgrading from a Wii to a PS3/360 just for waggle. If that was all they wanted then they've got a Wii already.

And the fact they have a Wii means they're not concerned with HD or pretty graphics.

May as well go and chase Unicorns, HD waggle snobs don't exist.

[T234]

The wife is wondering whether the Move has rumble and whether the glow ball is washable... :/

 


Too bad you're not in Kentucky. All kinds of fun stuff I could sell you at the porn shop.

[maxy]

Engadget impressions

    *  The controllers are light. Much more akin to the DualShock3 than the Wiimote in heft, and we're guessing that's due to Sony's continued love of rechargeable batteries.
    * The main controller does have some subtle vibration (not DualShock or Wiimote level, but present), but we're not sure yet about the subcontroller.
    * We hate to say this about "pre-alpha" software, but we're feeling lag. An on-rails shooter we tried out, dubbed The Shoot, was discernibly inferior to shooting experiences we've had on the Wii, both in precision and refresh rate of the aiming cursor.
    * The gladiator game is about as fun as it looks, we'll have video after the break momentarily. Unfortunately, while it's less of a defined experience than something like the sword game on Wii Sports Resort, you're still working through a library of sensed, pre-defined actions instead of a true 1:1 fighting game with simulated physics. Not that it isn't possible with PlayStation Move, just that it's not this.
    * The lightness of the controllers means we might be feeling less of that Wiimote fatigue, always a good thing! There's an aspect of the controller that feels a little cheap, but at the same time we wouldn't call it fragile.
    * As far as we can tell, the control scheme for Socom 4 is quite similar to dual-controller shooter setups on the Wii, with the camera moving based on your aiming cursor hitting the edge. It's hard to see this as the preferred hardcore setup, but we're told it's configurable, so we'll try and see what else is on offer.
    * The system seemed to have a bit of trouble understanding the configuration of our body in a swordfighting stance: even though we selected "left handed," it was putting our sword arm forward instead of our shield. Right-handers didn't seem to have similar problems, and we're sure this will be ironed out in time, but it certainly shows that the controllers aren't magical in their space-detection prowess.
    * As would be expected, you're supposed to stand relatively center on the TV, and at a certain optimal distance. The system is forgiving, but there's a sweet spot that users will undoubtedly have to learn.
    * Lag is less prominent on Socom 4, and we'd say we're pretty accurate with the controller already, though the framerate choppiness of this pre-alpha build obviously hampers that a bit. We did get a slight feel of being in "scene to scene" shootouts instead of a free-roaming FPS, perhaps a design choice to mitigate the limited camera movement offered by the controller, but we'll have to see more levels to know for sure.

http://www.engadget.com/2010/03/10/playstation-move-first-hands-on/?s=t5

So it lags,plays worse than Wii...what happened

[originalz]

I'm really interested in seeing how Japan reacts to this crap.

[originalz]

I'm sure all those games will be great and not have motion controls tacked on at all!  It'll be just like the 1st year of the Wii again!

Oh well, maybe if the games do horribly, we won't have to worry about a year 2.

[maxy]

Uhh... alpha version happened?

Wait for the release candidate to downplay it.

On rails-shooter...how hard can it be to implement motion controls...if somebody implemented mouse controls it would run like crazy
This thing is "supposed" to have same lag as dualshock-1 frame...no excuses

There is also one other thing,for 30 fps console high budget shooters minimal lag is 100ms,without TV
If this thing starts to add lag then...

[Crushed]

So Sony's blog confirmed that the "under $100" controller bundle will be a Move + Camera, with a demo disc of Move games.

You will be able to get involved with PlayStation Move in several ways:

    * Camera + controller (including a “starter disc” with a range of demos for games releasing later in the year)
    * A single controller for people who already have a PlayStation Eye camera
    * A full console pack which includes PS3, dualshock3, Move controller + camera
    * Finally some of our biggest games will be available with a Move controller included

No subcontroller included?

spoiler (click to show/hide)

Home
Move

[close]

[maxy]

It was obvious from the conference...
First they announced "move",the price...5 minutes later,oh look we have a sub-controller too

[cool breeze]

wait, so these demos won't be available on PSN?

let's say that I buy this and already own a PS Eye, wouldn't that mean I miss out on the FREE DEMO DISK? 

and some games require two controllers while things like SOCOM require the subcontroller.  how many plastic sticks do they expect people to own?

Engadget impressions

    *  The controllers are light. Much more akin to the DualShock3 than the Wiimote in heft, and we're guessing that's due to Sony's continued love of rechargeable batteries.
    * The main controller does have some subtle vibration (not DualShock or Wiimote level, but present), but we're not sure yet about the subcontroller.
    * We hate to say this about "pre-alpha" software, but we're feeling lag. An on-rails shooter we tried out, dubbed The Shoot, was discernibly inferior to shooting experiences we've had on the Wii, both in precision and refresh rate of the aiming cursor.
    * The gladiator game is about as fun as it looks, we'll have video after the break momentarily. Unfortunately, while it's less of a defined experience than something like the sword game on Wii Sports Resort, you're still working through a library of sensed, pre-defined actions instead of a true 1:1 fighting game with simulated physics. Not that it isn't possible with PlayStation Move, just that it's not this.
    * The lightness of the controllers means we might be feeling less of that Wiimote fatigue, always a good thing! There's an aspect of the controller that feels a little cheap, but at the same time we wouldn't call it fragile.
    * As far as we can tell, the control scheme for Socom 4 is quite similar to dual-controller shooter setups on the Wii, with the camera moving based on your aiming cursor hitting the edge. It's hard to see this as the preferred hardcore setup, but we're told it's configurable, so we'll try and see what else is on offer.
    * The system seemed to have a bit of trouble understanding the configuration of our body in a swordfighting stance: even though we selected "left handed," it was putting our sword arm forward instead of our shield. Right-handers didn't seem to have similar problems, and we're sure this will be ironed out in time, but it certainly shows that the controllers aren't magical in their space-detection prowess.
    * As would be expected, you're supposed to stand relatively center on the TV, and at a certain optimal distance. The system is forgiving, but there's a sweet spot that users will undoubtedly have to learn.
    * Lag is less prominent on Socom 4, and we'd say we're pretty accurate with the controller already, though the framerate choppiness of this pre-alpha build obviously hampers that a bit. We did get a slight feel of being in "scene to scene" shootouts instead of a free-roaming FPS, perhaps a design choice to mitigate the limited camera movement offered by the controller, but we'll have to see more levels to know for sure.

http://www.engadget.com/2010/03/10/playstation-move-first-hands-on/?s=t5

So it lags,plays worse than Wii...what happened

This kind of inconsistency is a killer.  Wii games have lag too, but over time they've dealt with it better.  Apparently the Ping Pong game has no lag while the sword fighting game does.  For SOCOM, they mentioned that it was put in just to show how it could be added to existing games quickly.  All most of this stuff was pre-alpha but you'd still think they'd make a bit more effort here.

[cool breeze]

Finally some of our biggest games will be available with a Move controller included

that line makes it seem like they'll be doing a motion plus thing where it's included with a bunch of games, though, probably $30+ extra for the bundle.

[TripleA]

dcharlie, do you at least admit that Natal is as terrible a platform-diluting fuckup as the Move?

it's likely to be an even bigger fuck up because at least Natal is different enough to attract the Wii crowd.

In truth, that's my fear.

I saw a ton of Sfags post about "PS3 now provides upgrade path from Wii to PS3!" except functionally it DOES NOT. It's the same , but it LOOKS better, but we already established that the people who bought into the Wii bought into the control gimmick NOT the graphic fidelity of the machine. As such the PS3 Poove has ZERO chance of converting Wii fans. Absolute FUCKING zilch.

Nutall on the other hand can be sold to the same tards who thought they were playing tennis. MS are offering a different experience and they'll market it way better than Sony could possibly dream of. I don't expect a whole sale rush from Wii, but i expect at least some to move over - a) because it seems like "progression" b) because it'll be well marketted and c) because the price point will be much more attractive than moving to the -too similar- Ps3.

Natal and Move? i am prepared to be wowed by a piece of killer software, but my impression right now is <hudson>how do i get out of this chickenshit outfit?</hudson>

I will be a PC Dad by the end of 2010. I will be in a land where 1080p is low res and waggle is for the fucking proles.

can't wait

While you were typing your fanboy nonsense, did it ever occur to you that Move was a strategic move by Sony to counter the inevitable WiiHD ?

From a consumer standpoint: Move is the Wii in HD. Sony will never admit it but this is exactly what they want the Ps3 + Move to be.

I do agree though, Project Natal is definitely interesting because what it claims and promises to do is remove the necessity of having a controller for interactive media. Let's see if Microsoft succeed.

[brawndolicious]

well Wii made the entire waggling market and that market hasn't really shown any enthusiasm for HD graphics (obviously).  if there were some decent ORIGINAL efforts on the Wii that had innovative motion controls and somehow sold well, then maybe there's some potential there but I just totally see the Move and Natal bombing.  And then nitendo will learn from that and probably make graphics an even lower concern for the Wii2.

Also this isn't 2006,  you can't just show the technology with no fleshed out game behind and still impress people.  A game that can really use these motion controllers is what would get people the most excited.

[maxy]

Nobody cares about Wii Sports in HD,Nintendo would be totally crazy to release Wii 2=Wii HD

Besides,Wii 2 will be BC so you will play all those games in "HD".

[Brehvolution]

Can't wait to Move.

[magus]

And of course what everyone including me is forgetting here is we don't know shit about what Wii HD will offer besides HD.

Maybe it will have another new gimmick that will win hearts of grandmas around the world? Dunno.

uh... anyway! my tought? i like motion control and those control seems to work better than the wiimote (i'm still quite pissed that you need to press a button to block in wii sports resort) so thumbs up from me!

[M3wThr33]

I imagine the biggest supporters of this will be couples. Guys will get this an excuse NOT to get the Wii for their girlfriend/wife/chambermaid.

[duckman2000]

I imagine the biggest supporters of this will be couples. Guys will get this an excuse NOT to get the Wii for their girlfriend/wife/chambermaid.

Yup. We'll see if it works, but if they market it right, it could definitely be an appealing alternative.

[Stoney Mason]

I was browsing this thread on GAF and I like how nfags after 3 years of sitting in their gold yet empty palace are actually somewhat threatened by PS3 Move and are already trying to fight sfags over waggle

This is going to be fun

It goes both ways. Now you have sony fanboys who dissed the Wii for years who are suddenly now open to motion control because their favorite company is now behind it.

My take has always been pretty consistent. I think neither motion control solution will put a dent in the Wii market or stop their momentum. I think neither company has yet demonstrated they really have an understanding of this market. I watched all those sony videos and they all looked god damn awful to me. At least when Nintendo shows something off, it is mostly polished.

I'll probably buy a Natal to be honest (as long as its dirt cheap) but I have no hope of that being anything other than a pure gimmick at this point also.

[TripleA]

Nobody cares about Wii Sports in HD,Nintendo would be totally crazy to release Wii 2=Wii HD

Besides,Wii 2 will be BC so you will play all those games in "HD".

What makes you think the next Wii is the Wii 2.

[cool breeze]

I was browsing this thread on GAF and I like how nfags after 3 years of sitting in their gold yet empty palace are actually somewhat threatened by PS3 Move and are already trying to fight sfags over waggle

This is going to be fun

the gaf thread is vicious

It's being stuck between Nintendo fans and Sony fans at their worst.  It's like, you have Sony fans getting excited for shit available 3 to 4 years ago, and at the same time you have Nintendo fans attacking it because it manages to be slightly above the par Wii set.  These reactions are so bizarre.

[maxy]

Nobody cares about Wii Sports in HD,Nintendo would be totally crazy to release Wii 2=Wii HD

Besides,Wii 2 will be BC so you will play all those games in "HD".

What makes you think the next Wii is the Wii 2.

What else could it be,600$ machine?

Releasing Wii HD would be totally pointless,casuals don't care about pixels,their questions are
1)How much it costs?
2)Why should i buy it?What does it do better than Wii?Can i play my Wii games on it?

Nintendo made billions on them,it would be stupid not to push them to upgrade...HD  can't do that
Something else is needed,something party related,casual thing...

[pilonv1]

re: GAF reactions - sony fans looking like the eternal hypocrits they are, unable to think for themselves yet again. After years of laughing at Waggle, now it's cool? oh dear.

They're fans of technology not waggle.

[Bildi]

    * As would be expected, you're supposed to stand relatively center on the TV, and at a certain optimal distance. The system is forgiving, but there's a sweet spot that users will undoubtedly have to learn.

That one's a bit lame.  The rest sounds reads like the history of the Wii.

[maxy]

Something that involves real games

Cryengine 3 GDC trailer
http://gamevideos.1up.com/video/id/28333/bigger

Shitty quality though

[M3wThr33]

They're fans of technology not waggle.

is this going to be like how all games would use similar motion controls due to Sixaxis?

Sixaxis was worth it for this video alone:
http://www.justin.tv/clip/bfaba1abb72524c5

SUPER RUB A DUBBBBBBBBBBBBB

[Bocsius]

thread tl;dr

anything interesting happen or is this like most gdcs (so no)

[archie4208]

thread tl;dr

anything interesting happen or is this like most gdcs (so no)

This is the future of videogames:

[maxy]

Interesting read

Peter Molyneux has made it clear that Fable 3 is ditching as much of the 2D interface from Fable 2 as possible. Speaking at GDC, he finally showed us exactly how Lionhead will achieve this. According to Molyneux, Microsoft user research revealed that a majority of Fable 2 players understood fewer than half of the features in the game. "We're creating content that people literally don't care about," said Molyneux.

To help rectify this, Fable 3's menu system is managed entirely from within the game world. When players pause the game, their character is instantly warped to a chamber with different rooms that serve different functions. Molyneux specifically demonstrated the dressing room, where players will change clothes. Molyneux contrasted the process with that of Fable 2, in which changing outfits was like "going in the morning and choosing index cards to choose what you wear."

In the dressing room, the player's butler -- played by the inimitable John Cleese -- will have several outfits arranged on different mannequins. According to Molyneux, the outfits should be appropriate to what the character is doing in the game. For example, if your character is going to meet with dignitaries -- you are the king, remember -- you can expect to see some appropriately frilly outfits. Fable fashionistas need not fear, as Molyneux explained that players can still mix and match elements from different outfits -- the interface for this resembles the one used in Grand Theft Auto IV.


We were then shown how the game's map system will work and, honestly, it's pretty slick. A pedestal in the middle of the "pause room" acts as the map. When selected, players can move a magnifying glass over the land of Albion, as well as the new continent of Aurora, and then zoom in on different regions. When zoomed in, players are presented with a fully 3D, interactive version of the town. According to Molyneux, the world simulation is "fully turned on" in the map, which he demonstrated by zooming all the way to the front of the player's house, where his wife and daughter could be clearly seen.

http://www.joystiq.com/2010/03/11/peter-molyneux-explains-fable-3-menu-morphing-systems/

  John Cleese

[Stoney Mason]

Yeah I read that. A lot of weird stuff he says. Like Fable 3 needs to sell 5 million copies. (ain't gonna happen)

And that they want to simplify the combat even more. Since the combat was completely broken in Fable 2 that seems like a very bad idea.

Molyneux is so annoying.

[Stoney Mason]

I think the idea of being a king is phenomenal. As is a lot of the stuff when he's talking all pie in the sky. The problem is when you play his games they never approach the hype or detail of what he has been describing.

I think Fable 2 is a decent game for what its worth. Its just the way he talks up the franchise before it comes out, you would think its the second coming.

[EmCeeGrammar]

I imagine the biggest supporters of this will be couples. Guys will get this an excuse NOT to get the Wii for their girlfriend/wife/chambermaid.

Its amazing that forumites still don't get it.

THE VAST MAJORITY OF ANY ENTERTAINMENT MEDIUM DOES NOT REVOLVE WHAT NERDS WANT. 

So stop being silly!

[drew]

im too sick to scroll

anything interesting happen

[Vizzys]

they are having an award show soon

http://gdc.gamespot.com/live.html

[drew]

ill take that as a no

thank you veeehuuz

[Eel O'Brian]

http://gizmodo.com/5491464/playstation-move-gimps-4+player-support

[Howard Alan Treesong]

sigh

[Eel O'Brian]

sharing is fun, dude!

[maxy]

Press doesn't like this thing at all

Pimp it to some female mags,Sony

[Stoney Mason]

Press doesn't like this thing at all

Pimp it to some female mags,Sony

It's me too technology years after the original and they have no good games to pimp it out at this moment. Nothing for the press to write about.

[cool breeze]

Sony: "In this economy it is irresponsible to have two children.  Our system is catered to the modern three person household and we believe they will have a best possible experience."  

[magus]

ok really guys,can you name me a wii game that makes use of both the wiimote and nunchuks that can be played in 4?

and no game with standard control don't count

[cool breeze]

Red Steel
Mini-games from Super Monkey Ball Bana Blitz
Super Mario Strikers Charged