GDC Discussion Topic

[Howard Alan Treesong]

it is true that almost all 4-Player Wii games are Wiimote-only, though.

[cool breeze]

though, it is also true that a lot of those 4 player Wii games have the controller on the side, which the Sony wand can't do.

[M3wThr33]

Both of the controllers use USB to recharge. If needed, I imagine they could go wired if needed, but I doubt Sony cared to set it up to work that way.

[Eel O'Brian]

again, they should have made the MOVE like the subwhatchamacallit so that two of them, in a pinch, could be used as a relatively normal dual analog

[Vizzys]

they just played sum danger during this award show i noticed

danger

[youtube=560,345]f2EZkycM1S4[/youtube]

[TripleA]

http://gizmodo.com/5491464/playstation-move-gimps-4+player-support

Does this mean that four players can't enjoy PlayStation Move titles at once? Absolutely not. Each player could use a single Move controller, much like some Wii titles need only the Wiimote.

There you go.

[The Sceneman]

well, Warioware Smooth Moves with one Wiimote and 10 drunk players is awesome. Pity PS3 wont have that game

[Trent Dole]

Blah blah blah waggle faggle blah blah.  :stfu

[Eel O'Brian]

http://gizmodo.com/5491464/playstation-move-gimps-4+player-support

Does this mean that four players can't enjoy PlayStation Move titles at once? Absolutely not. Each player could use a single Move controller, much like some Wii titles need only the Wiimote.

There you go.

again, wii + nunchuk can be used if needed in 4-player games and the ps3mote cannot

partially gimped from the start is

wait for it

spoiler (click to show/hide)

STILL GIMPED

[close]

there you go

[duckman2000]

If we have learned anything from Wii and Enter the Matrix, it would be that approval of gaming news media has little to do with success or failure. I think it will "fail" for others reasons, but gaming news media has zero influence beyond the church walls.

What is critical is showing the way for 3rd parties. I think this will need a "killer app" to get off the ground in the first place, but also to blaze the path for others. PS3 Play probably won't cut it.

[Don Flamenco]

well, Warioware Smooth Moves with one Wiimote and 10 drunk players is awesome. Pity PS3 wont have that game

they'll come up with some horrible equivalent.  Move Wacky Time™!!!

[cool breeze]

back to video games

Fable 3 videos , mostly about how there aren't any text menus: http://media.xbox360.ign.com/media/143/14328887/vids_1.html (top three videos)

Deux Ex 3 trailer http://xbox360.ign.com/dor/objects/14220588/deus-ex-3/videos/deusex3_trl_trailer_30910.html

Alpha Protocol walkthrough http://www.gametrailers.com/video/gdc-10-alpha-protocol/63046

Deux Ex 3 better not be that brown and orange in the final game.

Alpha Protocol looks super rough even after all these delays.

[GilloD]

Developers are already wobbly about contunuing to develop for the Wii- What's going to make them jump ship to ANOTHER waggle based solution? Unless you're making money on the hardware, I'm not sure how this decision makes any sense.

[cool breeze]

The Grinder
That Left 4 Dead clone from The Conduit devs is now an XBLA overhead shooter, more like Hunter The Reckoning, instead of an FPS game for the Wii   :munch

http://www.gametrailers.com/video/gdc-10-the-grinder/63050
http://www.gametrailers.com/video/gdc-10-the-grinder/63048

[ManaByte]

It only does everything.

spoiler (click to show/hide)

except four player motion control

[close]

[ManaByte]

Developers are already wobbly about contunuing to develop for the Wii- What's going to make them jump ship to ANOTHER waggle based solution? Unless you're making money on the hardware, I'm not sure how this decision makes any sense.

EA is porting their kiddie LOTR Wii waggle game to PS3. The Wii ports have begun.

[TripleA]

http://gizmodo.com/5491464/playstation-move-gimps-4+player-support

Does this mean that four players can't enjoy PlayStation Move titles at once? Absolutely not. Each player could use a single Move controller, much like some Wii titles need only the Wiimote.

There you go.

partially gimped

I see, I see.

[brawndolicious]

Developers are already wobbly about contunuing to develop for the Wii- What's going to make them jump ship to ANOTHER waggle based solution? Unless you're making money on the hardware, I'm not sure how this decision makes any sense.

The biggest problem is to be competitive with other games on the HD consoles, they'll probably need relatively decent graphics. That means the capital cost in making a PS3 waggle game is probably going to be much higher than for Wii.  I think most of the games that use it will be PSN/XBLA games tbh.

[TripleA]

Developers are already wobbly about contunuing to develop for the Wii- What's going to make them jump ship to ANOTHER waggle based solution? Unless you're making money on the hardware, I'm not sure how this decision makes any sense.

EA is porting their kiddie LOTR Wii waggle game to PS3. The Wii ports have begun.

[duckman2000]

The problem SONY has with Move is that they KNOW that hardocre games like GoW or Killzone don't need, won't benefit and won't SELL the Move at all.

Look at Wii and its best selling games.

Wii Sports. Wii Bowling. Wii Fit.

Sony simply HAS to follow and offer shitty HD shovelware for Move. This is the only thing that a) requires Move b) will sell with Move.

Uh, the Wii also doesn't have anything like the former. In terms of presentation it's obviously a pure impossibility, and that type of game isn't exactly what Nintendo first parties are specializing in. I have no idea if it would work or not, but you really can't use the Wii and its best selling game types to make an argument against it.

Developers are already wobbly about contunuing to develop for the Wii- What's going to make them jump ship to ANOTHER waggle based solution? Unless you're making money on the hardware, I'm not sure how this decision makes any sense.

Because they could technically make it an added features in existing/planned games. Even original games for the peripheral could be of the same sort as the other output, but with a focus on the motion bit.

[maxy]

Developers are already wobbly about contunuing to develop for the Wii- What's going to make them jump ship to ANOTHER waggle based solution? Unless you're making money on the hardware, I'm not sure how this decision makes any sense.

EA is porting their kiddie LOTR Wii waggle game to PS3. The Wii ports have begun.

This will help Wii,Sony will fund PS3 waggle games and developers will make Wii games and port it to PS3.

PS3-Wii ports...hard
Wii-PS3 ports...easy

Easy money

[chronovore]

While you were typing your fanboy nonsense, did it ever occur to you that Move was a strategic move by Sony to counter the inevitable WiiHD ?

From a consumer standpoint: Move is the Wii in HD. Sony will never admit it but this is exactly what they want the Ps3 + Move to be.

I do agree though, Project Natal is definitely interesting because what it claims and promises to do is remove the necessity of having a controller for interactive media. Let's see if Microsoft succeed.

As much as I despise methodis he is right on the money there. PS3 Move is basically Wii HD BEFORE Wii HD even hit the market.

People that wanted waggle tennis/ skiing/ aerobics/ dancing/ whatevs in HD will be able to get it FIRST on PS3 now. Not wait for Wii HD.

The only advantage the eventual Wii HD will have over PS3 is... Mario/ Zelda/ Metroid games.

It depends on what the Wii HD turns out to be, if-or-when it eventually comes out. It may be the me-too Wii2, or it may just be a Wii with an HDMI port. But whatever they choose to make it, whatever new features they add Nintendo can count on most of the highest selling games on their system offering unprecedented support for those new features -- because they're also making the biggest sellers.

Third party support is still critical for Sony and Microsoft, in a way it never is for Nintendo. A lot rides on what a 3rd party developer can count on being in the minimum config. Anytime a hardware manufacturer adds a peripheral, the market for a game which requires that hardware is immediately whittled down to a subset of the people who own its parent hardware.

How many Multitap REQUIRED titles were sold for PS2? Were there any Eye-Toy required  games other than the ones that Sony put out with the hardware? How did they sell? How about that PS1 mouse? Most devs are not out to limit their potential buyers before the game even gets on the shelf.

[Eel O'Brian]

i'd imagine any wiiHD is gonna be just enough of a power bump to catch some of the bigger 360/PS3 ports they've been missing (you know they'd have loved to get a piece of that MW2 action), maybe minus a few bells and whistles

it's a pretty safe bet for them - backward compat with wii titles, now-familiar motion controls included, option to use the "super-pro classic controller" or whatever the fuck they're calling it on regular ported games, and they could probably bring it all in a few bucks under ps3/360 (with HDD) retail prices

[cool breeze]

http://www.gametrailers.com/video/gdc-10-sony/63057

seeing the raw tech of the thing makes the games shown seem even worse 

[maxy]

Raw tech is just that...raw tech

Just like a game tech demo...

Also i read somewhere that 4 dildo tracking requires one dedicated spu or even more...uses some memory also...it could be wrong info,who knows

Either way,this is not as easy to implement as raw tech suggests...games show that

[EmCeeGrammar]

Hey now they ported MW to Wii 1 and only because it didn't fire the charts there's no MW2 for Wii 1.

Wii

Modern Warfare for wii was two years late.  I watch some modern warfare 2 vids sometimes and I'm not sure the wii could handle all the air support that can be in play at once.  If I were activision, I'd seriously consider making a wii CoD with an emphasis on split screen local.

[Brehvolution]

Move

My living room is only big enough for 2 flailing fools at a time.

[cool breeze]

Raw tech is just that...raw tech

Just like a game tech demo...

Also i read somewhere that 4 dildo tracking requires one dedicated spu or even more...uses some memory also...it could be wrong info,who knows

Either way,this is not as easy to implement as raw tech suggests...games show that

Games from companies no one has heard of (and Zipper, who kept saying they spent 2 days putting it in + some time tweaking).

At least I was somewhat right when I said the biggest failure with the Sony wand (before seeing the final design of the controller) was that Sony wasn't going to throw any support behind it.

[Eel O'Brian]

casssammaaassssiiinnanamassamina over at ign is saying developers are telling him off-record that the natal works like shit

http://wii.ign.com/articles/107/1076978p1.html

[duckman2000]

Is Matt "so yeah, I overrated some stuff because of love for the company, but you can trust me now" Assman still married to that Nintendo exec?

[Eel O'Brian]

dunno

he wrote that devs also told him that the sony thing would get much better over time

[cool breeze]

he also asked if he could have sex with a picture of Samus

damnit borys

[Eel O'Brian]

i'm probably not getting either of them, after some thought

i'd rather build a bitchin' desktop pc (which i can write off my taxes as a business expense) and a multitouch tablet this year, if i'm gonna be spending money

[maxy]

Raw tech is just that...raw tech

Just like a game tech demo...

Also i read somewhere that 4 dildo tracking requires one dedicated spu or even more...uses some memory also...it could be wrong info,who knows

Either way,this is not as easy to implement as raw tech suggests...games show that

Games from companies no one has heard of (and Zipper, who kept saying they spent 2 days putting it in + some time tweaking).

At least I was somewhat right when I said the biggest failure with the Sony wand (before seeing the final design of the controller) was that Sony wasn't going to throw any support behind it.

Obviously Sony thinks that those games are good enough...who knows why

There will be games with good and bad controls.Not every PS3,360,Wii game has good controls...

[maxy]

Crytek people have families to feed and bills to pay,Borys.

[Diunx]

Anyone have a good summary of what was announced here?

[M3wThr33]

casssammaaassssiiinnanamassamina over at ign is saying developers are telling him off-record that the natal works like shit

http://wii.ign.com/articles/107/1076978p1.html

And I'll tell you first hand it does.

[cool breeze]

http://www.gametrailers.com/video/gdc-10-eyepet/63065

Eyepet demo

shows off cool tech and really bad lag

[TripleA]

The CryEngine 3 video was pathetic. Nothing, NOTHING beyond what Crysis for PC was capable of back in 2007.

Real shame Crytek has became selling out bitches.

Crytek are now catering to the console market. Did you realistically expect Crysis on consoles to look better than Crysis on PC?

Furthermore, Crysis 2 will be lucky to run at a locked 30fps on consoles.

[TripleA]

casssammaaassssiiinnanamassamina over at ign is saying developers are telling him off-record that the natal works like shit

http://wii.ign.com/articles/107/1076978p1.html

Interesting.

Matt oversells a lot of things so while developers might be experiencing difficulties with Natal, it may not be as bad as he's making it out to be.

[Jansen]

alpha protocol looks pretty assy. no wonder they delayed the shit out of it. sadly it seems like the delays didn't do much good.

[Stoney Mason]

alpha protocol looks pretty assy. no wonder they delayed the shit out of it. sadly it seems like the delays didn't do much good.

The combat looks alot like the original Mass Effect and that isn't a compliment. The Obsidian fanboys still have high hopes for this one even though Obsidian's output in recent years hasn't been anything special.

We'll see. It has a lot of cool elements and ideas behind it but the action element doesn't look very good. Reminds me of a lot of PC games that fit that description.

[EmCeeGrammar]

So natal is going to come with a dress code or what?  Have they fixed the racist algorithms yet?

[M3wThr33]

So natal is going to come with a dress code or what?  Have they fixed the racist algorithms yet?

It's not a racist algorithm. Dark skin is just fucking hard to decrypt when against dark backgrounds. Logitech, Dell, HP, Microsoft webcam tracking software ALL have trouble to some degree. This isn't news.

[M3wThr33]

EA is porting their kiddie LOTR Wii waggle game to PS3. The Wii ports have begun.

awesome, now games can not sell on two platforms rather than just one!

and we all know that PS3 fans have been secretly yearning for Wii titles.

The good ones. You know... No More Heroes. And...  Resident Evil Chronicles?

[EmCeeGrammar]

EA is porting their kiddie LOTR Wii waggle game to PS3. The Wii ports have begun.

awesome, now games can not sell on two platforms rather than just one!

and we all know that PS3 fans have been secretly yearning for Wii titles.

The good ones. You know... No More Heroes. And...  Resident Evil Chronicles?

I think pes ps3 shipping with playmaker control option ala the wii versions would be a good idea.

[Olivia Wilde Homo]

Netal and Move will tank.  It's too little, too late in the game to try to be aping the Wii.  I suspect Netal will do better overall because Microsoft will pour far more funds into marketing the thing than Sony would.

I imagine that this is just a test to see whether they should bother putting it into the Xbox 3 and PlayStation 4, with this holiday being the litmus test.  Of course, if they can bring the soccer moms to the yard, it will gain some traction so whipped husbands now have the balls to ask the wife to buy a HD console instead.

I'm sure whatever Nintendo is cooking up (probably some 3D glasses technology) will take them right back soon enough.

[maxy]

Netal and Move will tank.  It's too little, too late in the game to try to be aping the Wii.  I suspect Netal will do better overall because Microsoft will pour far more funds into marketing the thing than Sony would.

I imagine that this is just a test to see whether they should bother putting it into the Xbox 3 and PlayStation 4, with this holiday being the litmus test.  Of course, if they can bring the soccer moms to the yard, it will gain some traction so whipped husbands now have the balls to ask the wife to buy a HD console instead.

I'm sure whatever Nintendo is cooking up (probably some 3D glasses technology) will take them right back soon enough.

If Natal can do something like this,it will do fine

[youtube=560,345][/youtube]

Gaming press doesn't matter here...

[Beezy]

way too cute

[Stoney Mason]

Good stuff.

Crunch culture killed Ensemble Studios News News by Oli Welsh Today 00:15
Former employees of Ensemble Studios and Pandemic Studios have blamed the developers' demise on their own company cultures, rather than the publishers that owned and closed them, Microsoft and EA.

Speaking at GDC, Paul Bettner, who worked at Ensemble for 12 years, refused to blame Microsoft for the studio's closure. "The reality is that every single game we shipped took twice as long as we said it was going to take, and cost twice as much to make.

"Microsoft is a public company, they answer to their shareholders, and we were simply too expensive."

In his impassioned talk during the "rants" session, Bettner, now working at iPhone developer NewToy, blamed himself for the cost, inefficiency and poor quality of life caused by Ensemble's dependence on long, "crunch" working hours.

Ensemble had a company culture where "everyone was a workaholic", developers worked late and slept at the office, and were addicted to the rush of success of the Age of Empires series.

"I watched this happen and I did almost nothing to stop it. As an employee, and later as a manager, I didn't take a stand. I just kept hoping for that next high," Bettner said.

He mentioned the EA Spouse and Rockstar Spouse controversies, and quoted "devastating" statistics indicating that over a third of people in the games industry expect to leave it within five years.

"This is a horrible vicious cycle. We burn out all our best people. We destroy these precious artists, we wreck their families and we sacrifice their youth. So they leave, and they take all their experience with them."

Bettner's comments, which received a standing ovation from the GDC audience, were echoed by Carey Chico, formerly of Pandemic Studios which was recently shut down by EA.

It was the developer's culture - its lack of accountability and inability to hit milestones internally - that sealed its fate, Chico said. He said the problems began with the studio's venture capital windfall when it merged with BioWare.

"We were very good for a long period of time in the middle there," Chico said, referring to the time when the studio made titles like Full Spectrum Warrior and Mercenaries.

"Then, we got our own money. And that was probably the beginning of the fall."

Having to hit milestones for publishers and work to their schedules "are actually good restraints in a lot of ways", Chico said.

Once it had its own funding, Pandemic decided to develop its own technology and take games close to completion before trying to sell them to publishers, but lacked discipline, said Chico, now president of new developer GlobeX.

"When you have your own money, what happens is that you have to maintain your own accountability internally, and if you don't have that, you just f**k everything up."

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/crunch-culture-killed-ensemble-studios

[Draft]

People are always so quick to blame the evil publishers (I definitely hated on MS big time when Ensemble got shut down.) But I've always assumed sloth and poor planning were the true enemies of the game developer, not some corporate hatchetman.

[duckman2000]

Well, in the case of Ensemble, I think a lot of the nerd-rage towards MS came courtesy of the fact that their last game was Halo Wars. I don't think people really blamed EA for Pandemic though, did they?

[WrikaWrek]

This GDC has been boring.

No exciting panels, etc