I am Returned

[Ichirou]

But his films still rock, no matter how big an a-hole he is.

[AdmiralViscen]

Watched Heat on DVD with someone who hadn't seen Al Pacino in anything.  We pause the movie and he asks if Pacino's meant to be a great actor.  I say he was, but most people think he gradually became too over-the-top, and this movie was in the middle of that slide.

We unpause the DVD just in time for Pacino to say "She's got a GREAT ASS!" while making a big scooping gesture.

Doesn't he do a little pause in the middle? I remember it being more like "She's got a...GREAT ASS!"

[youtube=560,345]kfCjxDTyOIA[/youtube]

[Cheebs]

Friedkins career for the last 20 years has been forgettable cookie cutter studio movies and tv episodes of stuff like csi. He did pretty decent stuff ages ago but he is now nothing more than a washed up hack who does random studio movies that no one remembers 5 minutes after they came out and episodes of whatever csi spinoff is  on this week.


The Hunted and Rules of Engagement anyone? I fell asleep just looking at their movie posters on imdb to refresh my memory on what he has done recently.

[The Dark Shake 3000]

But his films still rock, no matter how big an a-hole he is.

No they don't. Exorcist and French Connection are solid, but unremarkable. Friedkin has never made anything I'd even consider great, let alone a classic. He's a genre filmmaker, and not a remarkably talented one either.

Not like Mann

[Cheebs]

Shake how can you say his work on csi and random studio schlock movies no one saw this decade aren't the signs of a true auteur?!?!?!?

[The Dark Shake 3000]

I just read up on the French Connection Blu-Ray snaffu. Wow. Friedkin totally changed the look of the film (to that awful "hardcore blue" tint used by shit like Saw and all the shitty direct to DVD movies Friedkin himself directs); even the original cinematographer was appalled, and Friedkin basically waved him off saying anyone who doesn't like it can kiss his balls and it's the way the film is supposed to look.

Yeah, that sounds like something James Cameron would say

[Ichirou]

But his films still rock, no matter how big an a-hole he is.

No they don't. Exorcist and French Connection are solid, but unremarkable. Friedkin has never made anything I'd even consider great, let alone a classic. He's a genre filmmaker, and not a remarkably talented one either.

Not like Mann

Solid but unremarkable?  No fucking waaaaay.

[The Dark Shake 3000]

Yup. And I know plenty of people would disagree with me, but much of The Exorcist today is almost laughably overdone and cheesy and French Connection, while a good cop film isn't a shred as memorable as Heat, and certainly not as good. At the time they might have been the cat's pajamas, but genre cinema has evolved since then rendering at least one of the two sorely outdated.

[Ichirou]

Meh, your Mann love is a bit sad considering he's so over-the-hill and out-of-touch.

Ali?  Crap.

Miami Vice? Crap.

Public Enemies?

Sure, Friedkin has directed tons of stinkers, but at least he tried different things.  Mann pretty much just does generic crime movies.

[Mandark]

Y'all are totally a bunch of Manabytes.

[Ichirou]

Mandark...Manabyte...coincidence?

[The Dark Shake 3000]

Miami Vice was actually very stellar, so long as you don't watch it with 80s-styled rosy glasses on. :'(

And I've already admitted PE sucks and avoided talking about Ali, but I refuse to concede that Heat, Collateral or The Insider are anything less than great films and certainly better than anything Friedkin has ever made. One is a hack studio throwaway, the other is a genre filmmaker who manages to constantly raise the bar for whatever genre he's working in. Mann

[Cheebs]

Meh, your Mann love is a bit sad considering he's so over-the-hill and out-of-touch.

Ali?  Crap.

Miami Vice? Crap.

Public Enemies?

Sure, Friedkin has directed tons of stinkers, but at least he tried different things.  Mann pretty much just does generic crime movies.

I am not defending Mann that is shakes stance but friedkin hasn't  been a interesting filmmaker in like 30 years

[Ichirou]

Neither has Coppola, but does that lessen the greatness of the first two Godfathers?  Apocalypse Now?

Filmmakers have ups and downs throughout their careers, but films are immortal.

[The Dark Shake 3000]

Tetro, a 7/10 film at best, was better than 90% of Freidkin's filmography.

[The Dark Shake 3000]

Neither has Coppola, but does that lessen the greatness of the first two Godfathers?  Apocalypse Now?

Filmmakers have ups and downs throughout their careers, but films are immortal.

This doesn't quite work in the case of either The French Connection or The Exorcist, especially since both are dyed in the wool genre films. Great films transcend genre, like Coppola's best. Friedkin hasn't made anything even within spitting distance of Apocalypse Now, the first two Godfathers or even The Conversation.

The Exorcist, imo, is especially dated. Not only the effects or what have you, but the entire idealogy of the film seems simple and dated to me.

[Ichirou]

Haven't seen Tetro, can't comment on that particular movie.

And I don't know how Shake has gotten me in the position where I have to defend Friedkin - the man has made legitimately classic films that have permeated popular culture.  I'm not even a HUGE Friedkin fan (I think I only own French Connection and To Live and Die in L.A. on DVD), I just think he's better than Mann, who I view as generic mediocrity personified.

[Cheebs]

both of you name a direct you both equally worship, quick!


I'll give you guys a good start: Joe Johnston

[The Dark Shake 3000]

Haven't seen Tetro, can't comment on that particular movie.

And I don't know how Shake has gotten me in the position where I have to defend Friedkin - the man has made legitimately classic films that have permeated popular culture.  I'm not even a HUGE Friedkin fan (I think I only own French Connection and To Live and Die in L.A. on DVD), I just think he's better than Mann, who I view as generic mediocrity personified.

I don't know how someone can possibly call Mann a mediocre filmmaker. Even if you don't like his films Mann's obsessive attention to detail and the way he devotes himself to his films far ecclipses actual mediocre filmmakers, like Brett Ratner or Zack Snyder. Mann is a filmmaker's filmmaker.

[The Dark Shake 3000]

We both have monthly jerk off sessions to David Lynch's 1984 masterpiece, Dune.

[Ichirou]

Zack Snyder

300

[The Dark Shake 3000]

Next you're gonna tell me the Dawn of the Dead remake was better than Heat. :'(

[Ichirou]

zombie babies

[Joe Molotov]

The DotD remake needed more hitting zombies in the face with pies.

[Diunx]

Zack Snyder

300

smh

[drew]

movies movies movies

directors directors directors

[Cheebs]

movies movies movies

directors directors directors

[Phoenix Dark]

Collateral is awesome, wtf Ichi  :'(

I really liked Cruise in it. What an intense performance/movie

The Insider is Mann's best film though. I re-watched Heat last week. Still don't like the emotional shit put in there, but it's damn good. Would have been better without that Demi Moore look alike and Natalie Portman

[The Dark Shake 3000]

PD laying down the law

EDIT - Also I agree that the stuff with Pacino and Deniro's home lives both seemed half-assed and heavy handed, but the way the Kilmer/Judd relationship was handled more than made up for it. The last scene between them is perfect.

[Phoenix Dark]

Yea but their relationship spawns two of the worst lines in the movie

"all you are is a child grown older"

"what am i doing in this rat bastard situation?"

[The Dark Shake 3000]

I don't even remember those lines

[youtube=560,345][/youtube]

I don't see how anyone can hate on that. It's one the best scenes in the whole film -- probably my favorite after the diner scene and the climax.

[Human Snorenado]

I don't think you want to claim having PD on your side in a movie argument is a plus.  Forrest Gump and Unforgiven, nevar forget!

[The Dark Shake 3000]

Fuck that Youtube clip. It's a weird montage in the beginning and then the actual scene has some shitty piano melody playing over it. I can't find a good version though. :'(

[Ichirou]

Heat 7.5/10

The Insider 9/10

Collateral 5/10

Last of the Mohicans 3/10

Ali 4/10

[The Dark Shake 3000]

Heat 9.5/10
Collateral 9/10
The Insider 8.5/10
Miami Vice 8/10
Thief, Manhunter 7.5/10

The rest is give or take

[Ichirou]

Manhunter 6.5/10

Miami Vice 2/10

[Ichirou]

Public Enemies 0/10

[Phoenix Dark]

Heat 9.5/10
Collateral 9/10
The Insider 8.5/10
Miami Vice 8/10
Thief, Manhunter 7.5/10

The rest is give or take

The Insider 9/10
Collateral 8/10
Heat 8/10

[Ichirou]

Collateral Damage >>>>>>>>>>>> Collateral

[The Dark Shake 3000]

Man has never and likely will never make a film as good as Heat ever again. The Insider is great but nothing about it truly screams classic to me; no individual scenes or anything about it specifically stand out in my head like in Heat or, to a lesser extent, Collateral.

[Phoenix Dark]

Yea, but I wish this would play whenever I ruffled through some papers in public
[youtube=560,345]WfusxHokCDg[/youtube]

[Reb]

Man has never and likely will never make a film as good as Heat ever again.

Mann or Man?

[Ichirou]

[ch1nchilla]

(Image removed from quote.)

[Ichirou]

(Image removed from quote.)

[bud]

well, if we're rating mann movies, then i might as well join in:

the insider 10/10
collateral 9.5/10
heat 9/10
the last of the mohicans 8.5/10
manhunter 8/10
miami vice 6.5/10 (it'd have been, like, a 7/10 without the ridiculous sex scenes destroying the pacing)
ali 6-ish/10 (this was rather boring)

i've seen thief, but that was a looong time ago; don't remember much of it anymore.

[Cheebs]

(Image removed from quote.)

Tom Cruise is very capable of putting in a good performance sometimes so I have no idea what you are trying to imply

[ch1nchilla]

well, if we're doing rating then i might as well join in:

the insider 10/10
collateral 9.5/10
heat 9/10
the last of the mohicans 8.5/10
manhunter 8/10
miami vice 6.5/10 (it'd have been, like, a 7/10 without the ridiculous sex scenes destroying the pacing)
ali 6-ish/10 (this was rather boring)

i've seen thief, but that was a looong time ago; don't remember much of it anymore.

WHAT. Those sex scenes made the movie. Gong Li is fucking hot, and that's the bottom line.

spoiler (click to show/hide)

And so is Colin Farrell. Him + Gong Li + drawn out sex scene = victory, and that's real talk.

[close]

[Ichirou]

(Image removed from quote.)

Tom Cruise is very capable of putting in a good performance sometimes so I have no idea what you are trying to imply

[bud]

well, if we're doing rating then i might as well join in:

the insider 10/10
collateral 9.5/10
heat 9/10
the last of the mohicans 8.5/10
manhunter 8/10
miami vice 6.5/10 (it'd have been, like, a 7/10 without the ridiculous sex scenes destroying the pacing)
ali 6-ish/10 (this was rather boring)

i've seen thief, but that was a looong time ago; don't remember much of it anymore.

WHAT. Those sex scenes made the movie. Gong Li is fucking hot, and that's the bottom line.

spoiler (click to show/hide)

And so is Colin Farrell. Him + Gong Li + drawn out sex scene = victory, and that's real talk.

[close]

my asshole has a better english accent!

[Cheebs]

(Image removed from quote.)

Tom Cruise is very capable of putting in a good performance sometimes so I have no idea what you are trying to imply

(Image removed from quote.)

Collateral, Minority Report, Eyes Wide Shut, Born on the 4th of July.

All better than Transformers.

[Great Rumbler]

Collateral and Heat are both awesome movies. Those are the only Mann movies I've seen though.

[ch1nchilla]

All jokes aside, I can't believe some of you scored Collateral so low.

[Human Snorenado]

REAL TALK

the insider 9/10
collateral 7.5/10
heat 8/10
the last of the mohicans 8.5/10
manhunter 7.5/10
miami vice 5.5/10

Mann is still better than Friedkin, tho.  Ichi be smokin' some crack.

[Ichirou]

Just telling it like it is, brah.

[Great Rumbler]

Just telling it like it is, brah.

Just because GS isn't around anymore doesn't mean that you have to try to take his place.

[The Dark Shake 3000]

Ichi annihilated :tbslol

[Cheebs]

Ichi would suck Tom Cruise's dick if given the chance, we all know it.

[The Dark Shake 3000]

Then they'd go out for ice cream.

[Robo]

Then they'd go out for ice cream.

We thought Tom [Cruise] was the biggest bore on the face of the Earth. He had spent some formative time with Sean Penn—we were all very young at the time, Tom was 20, I was 23. Tom had picked up this knack of calling everyone by their character names, because that would probably make your performance better, and I don’t agree with that. I think that acting is acting, and the rest of the time, you should be you, but he called us all by our character names. He was tense and made constant, constant unrelated homophobic comments, like, “You want some ice cream, in case there are no gay people there?” I mean, his lingo was larded with the most… There was no basis for it. It was like, “It’s a nice day, I’m glad there are no gay people standing here.” Very, very strange.