All off the OoT 3DS wagon?

[Great Rumbler]

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[Himu]

Gerudo Valley is amazing.

[Himu]

forgot one

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[magus]

OoT has a lot of good music. Mostly not the dungeon music

too bad that's where you spend 80% of your gaming time eh?

spoiler (click to show/hide)

the remaining 19% is spent on the overworld which also has terrible music

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[Himu]

Not really. Some dungeon music has good music. Forest Temple for example. A lot of other dungeons have ambient tracks. Nothing wrong with that, and doesn't mean OoT's soundtrack is bad.

[Raban]

I loved the fire temple soundtrack

The one with your people's hymns in it?

[SantaC]

I loved the fire temple soundtrack

The one with your people's hymns in it?

nintendo removed that pretty quickly. I doubt a lot of people heard the original version.

[Raban]

I did. Gold cartridge, nicca.

[EmCeeGrammar]

Midi has its place.  Its kind of sad people want it dead or think it detracts from a game.  Metroid Prime series always used midi and the soundtrack to those games are phenomenal.

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[Oblivion]

I refuse to believe even Nintendo would jew out on the music.

[Raban]

I refuse to believe even Nintendo would jew out on the music.

Then you're an idiot, sorry. When have they done otherwise?

[Oblivion]

I refuse to believe even Nintendo would jew out on the music.

Then you're an idiot, sorry. When have they done otherwise?

Super Mario Galaxy? Super Mario Galaxy 2?

[EmCeeGrammar]

Smash Brother Brawl had some amazing arrangements too.

[Raban]

I refuse to believe even Nintendo would jew out on the music.

Then you're an idiot, sorry. When have they done otherwise?

Super Mario Galaxy? Super Mario Galaxy 2?

Oh I thought we were speaking strictly of their remakes! The soundtrack to SMG is pretty fantastic.

[Corporal]

Let's get something straight.

MIDI is the base of pretty much every music, ever. It basically describes how long and at what pitch a certain instrument needs to play at any given moment in time so that the outcome may be pleasing to the listeners. The ancients wrote little girly scribbles on parchments and gathered together in huge stinking halls to achieve that effect. Us superior modern humans have computers to attend to our every whim, so it's only natural that we should give things fancy names and have them do all the work.

The only difference in quality is the difference in instruments and software. If y'all only remember MIDI from your assy cellphones from 500 years ago going bleep blop blip, then that's one thing. Hell, the official MS solution provided with Windows is only marginally better. However, I'd like to remind peeps that the quality of the soundbanks and the playback software is tantamount to the MIDI experience. You don't expect a ragtag team of misfits with beaten up handmedowns standing under a bridge to sound anywhere near the same as a distinguished orchestra with its multi-million-dollar worth of instruments, years of expertise playing in a concert hall.

spoiler (click to show/hide)

MIDI does have its ample supply of problems. It's not perfect. Far from it. Many problems stem from the fact that it's far easier to write a comparatively dumb OGG/MP3 streaming engine instead of a highly complex mod player/synth.

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spoiler (click to show/hide)

Note: I will, on principle, not agree with anyone slandering modules (aka tracked music).

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[Raban]

I sure as hell love MIDI music, I just hate Nintendo.

[Himu]

i love zelda

mario is okay here and there. has only maybe one or two great games a decade. metroid has like three good games total.

that means zelda is the only nintendo franchise worth talking about, because every game owns except zelda 2.

cuz zelda 2 sucks.

[Diunx]

Majora's mask and wind waker are pretty shitty and TP was merely good.

[TakingBackSunday]

shut the fuck up, diunx

[Diunx]

It's the true mang.

[EmCeeGrammar]

Wind Waker and Twilight Princess ARE tedious approximations of good zelda games.  Ocarina has aged terribly and is really dull after the virgin run.  Its an empty 3d world with sluggish controls.  Zelda 1 has solutions to puzzles that you'll never figure out on your own or at most will require that you check every square tile of the world to find the one bush that can be burned to proceed or some shit.  Link to the Past is just boring, can't get into it.  Majora's Mask would be good except you have to go into the item screen an obscene amount of times to get anything done in that game.  Minish Cap/Oracle pfft who cares loosers.

The only zelda games I want to play again are Phantom Hourglass and Link's Awakening.

[naff]

Majora's mask and wind waker are pretty shitty and TP was merely good.

Worst taste ever as well as being a filthy poor

[Himu]

Majora's mask and wind waker are pretty shitty and TP was merely good.

Majora's Mask is the best in the series and Wind Waker is an extremely fun and interesting take on the OoT formula without dual worlds.

TP has flaws but also has some of the best dungeons in the series.

So nope.

[Himu]

blasphemy

you're the worst nintendo fan i've ever seen.

in any case, oot is great because of how you sequence break, particularly in the second half of the game. So it is ALWAYS fun to replay.

link to the past allows you to explore and go into dungeons without hand holding and allows immense sense of adventure without the "burn a random bush" stuff that Zelda 1 employs. You don't have to go into the menu THAT much in Majora's Mask, that's just being picky for no reason. And Wind Waker and TP are hardly "tedious".

[Corporal]

I care little about Zelda besides Links Awakening, a Link to the Past and maaaybe the Oracle games, since I haven't played those yet.

So I guess I'm some sort of Zelda heretic.

Edit: OK, so Windwaker is kind of neat for its novelty too, but nowhere on the same level as the games I mentioned above.

[Himu]

my replay of LA last year was pretty bad. It's too gimmicky for my tastes. LttP rams it up its asshole. Still a great game, though.

I like just about every Zelda I've played except 2. Haven't played those gbc games, though and I seriously need to correct that before Skyward Sword.

[magus]

it's not like emcee is saying something exagerated,i like twilight princess but that doesn't excuse the whole light bugs hunt segment which are mind-numbingly boring and are there just to pad the game,same thing can be said about wind waker sea travel so yea saying that they are tedious is right,and that's not even counting how every 3D zelda seems way to happy to drop you into nothing for the first 30 minutes and in fact it seems to get worse and worse with every next zelda

ocarina had the whole "hack bushes until you can buy the shield or we won't let you procede the game"
then you had majora where you have to play hide & seek and after that you literaly have to wait on your ass for the game to proceed
then wind waker upped the ante and introduced a stealth sequence
and twilight princess had that whole sheep business and even after you are done with that there is a lot of inconsequential blabbing around before you get to the actual game

i actualy didn't like link to the past a lot on my first run too but after replaying the game i came to the conclusion that it's on a decent game... what i find puzzling is that emcee doesn't like the oracles (which come pretty close to link's awakening) but likes phantom hourglass (which has horrible stealth sequence that the game force you to repeat)

i also find surprising that himuro thinks LA is too gimmicky... why you think so himuro? cause if you think so about LA let me tell you,you can already skip the oracle games now

[EmCeeGrammar]

The whole point of the Temple of the Ocean King is that when you return to it they want you to find all the shortcuts your ever expanding arsenal provides you with. Its a way to convey empowerment and I really feel people just straight up didnt realise how fast you could get through some floors.

[Himu]

The bug hunt quest in TP is a sidequest. Pad? You don't even have to do it.

Half of those complaints are fucking stupid. It takes like 2 minutes to get the rupees required to buy a shield.

In any case, Majora's Mask's intro is fine because you have just a few minutes to get the ocarina and become human again. The only part where you really have to "wait" is when you're waiting for the clock tower to open, and that's 5 minutes at most if you use the scarecrow to fast forward time.

Wind Waker's intro is slow, but it makes up for it by actually attempting to make Link an actual character, by giving him a family and a reason to journey beyond save the world. It was interesting.

TP's long ass intro is horrid, but that doesn't mean the overall game is shabby.

LA is gimmicky because of the stupid trade system and the plethora of ridiculous, although cool, items. Hey, go get those bananas to that monkey! zzz

[EmCeeGrammar]

The bug hunt quest in TP is a sidequest. Pad? You don't even have to do it.

Half of those complaints are fucking stupid. It takes like 2 minutes to get the rupees required to buy a shield.

In any case, Majora's Mask's intro is fine because you have just a few minutes to get the ocarina and become human again. The only part where you really have to "wait" is when you're waiting for the clock tower to open, and that's 5 minutes at most if you use the scarecrow to fast forward time.

Wind Waker's intro is slow, but it makes up for it by actually attempting to make Link an actual character, by giving him a family and a reason to journey beyond save the world. It was interesting.

TP's long ass intro is horrid, but that doesn't mean the overall game is shabby.

LA is gimmicky because of the stupid trade system and the plethora of ridiculous, although cool, items. Hey, go get those bananas to that monkey! zzz

Tp had lots of mandatory bug  hunts that sucked, don't try and make yourself forget now

Majora's mask compounds the item switching requirements by forcing you to also juggle masks a lot of the time. It gets annoying.

Did you just say Wind Waker's strength is its characterization?  Whogivesashitharrisonford.gif, these are videoGAMES we are talking about

LA has exactly ONE fetch quest, which is fine.  What's wrong with ridiculous but cool items? That's right you are reaching, sir.

[magus]

The whole point of the Temple of the Ocean King is that when you return to it they want you to find all the shortcuts your ever expanding arsenal provides you with. Its a way to convey empowerment and I really feel people just straight up didnt realise how fast you could get through some floors.

i get that but even with shortcut it's still tedious and stupid because blargh stealth sequence

The bug hunt quest in TP is a sidequest.

uh,no it's not,i'm talking about that invisible tears of light shit you have to do each time for the first three dungeon to cleanse the land of evil or something..... was there some other bug sidequest or something?

LA is gimmicky because of the stupid trade system and the plethora of ridiculous

really? that's the problem you have with LA? and you are telling me that "complaining about the whole shield ordeal in ocarina" is stupid?

[Himu]

Bug hunts? You mean the light things in wolf form? I don't remember bugs at all aside from the bug sidequest in castle town.

You act like you DON'T have to switch items all the time in past Zelda's. I'd hate to see how you'd play Zelda 1 or 2 where there's only a sword and an item button. In fact, Link's Awakening probably has just as bad item switching. See a gap? Start, feather. Oh no, my sword isn't equipped because I was doing other shit. Start, equip sword. Almost every screen.

I did not say Wind Waker's strength was characterization, however, it was enjoyable to play as a Link with actual goals beyond saving the world for once.

Link's Awakening has multiple fetch quests because the entire world is pretty much one dungeon. Gotta get that monkey some bananas. Gotta trade that one shit to the alligator. Help, my dog is missing! Use the "dog" on

This is without mentioning the vast amounts of Nintendo fan wank, usually from Mario characters or Mario related things.

Link's Awakening, while great, is gimmicky as fuck. Link to the Past fucks it like a champ.

[magus]

Bug hunts? You mean the light things in wolf form? I don't remember bugs at all aside from the bug sidequest in castle town.

yea,some of the lights taked the form of bugs and you had to sniff them out and kill them and it was the most annoying shit ever,one of them involved burning a house,remember?

[EmCeeGrammar]

I just wanted to post this for reals because its lulz

[Himu]

really? that's the problem you have with LA? and you are telling me that "complaining about the whole shield ordeal in ocarina" is stupid?

Yes, because it's nit picking at its worst. Fetch questing is tied into the core design of Link's Awakening, and you have to "help" some person after every dungeon. Whereas in OoT, it takes a measly 30-40 rupees, to get the wooden shield, which, for any Zelda player, should take 2-3 minutes at most.

Just sounds like bitching from the two people on the forum who should stop playing games to me.

[Himu]

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I just wanted to post this for reals because its lulz

I don't see the problem with wanting more or better story in Zelda. The best Zelda for instance, has a fucking awesome story. There's nothing wrong with liking story in games, so long as it's not the main reason you play them, and who the fuck plays Zelda FOR story. Not me! But that doesn't mean I can't appreciate, so get off your soap box and play some Pokemon.

[magus]

and you have to "help" some person after every dungeon

yea i'm pretty sure that majora mask never had any monkey to save,baby to put to sleep or aquatic rock band's to save amirite?

[Himu]

The difference is that in Majora's Mask they're not one-dimensional. Also, they're rarely ever REQUIRED.

[Himu]

I'll be honest. I actually liked the tears of light sections of TP. That one part where you ride the dragoon and control him like it's Panzer Dragoon

[EmCeeGrammar]

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I just wanted to post this for reals because its lulz

I don't see the problem with wanting more or better story in Zelda. The best Zelda for instance, has a fucking awesome story. There's nothing wrong with liking story in games, so long as it's not the main reason you play them, and who the fuck plays Zelda FOR story. Not me! But that doesn't mean I can't appreciate, so get off your soap box and play some Pokemon.

Games are not appropriate avenues for narrative. They get in the way of the interaction that is the strength of the medium.  The "story" of any game is best told through the actions the player takes and how he approaches his goals.  Any exposition outside of that makes no sense because all of a sudden my motivations are not my own.  It turns out instead of going around and empowering myself and exploring for fun I'm doing it for some greater good blah blah blah don't care, which button skips this cutscene.

[magus]

uh... nope... once again i'm pretty sure all that stuff i mentioned above is required

i don't even want to question what constitutes as one-dimensional and what doesn't

[Himu]

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I just wanted to post this for reals because its lulz

I don't see the problem with wanting more or better story in Zelda. The best Zelda for instance, has a fucking awesome story. There's nothing wrong with liking story in games, so long as it's not the main reason you play them, and who the fuck plays Zelda FOR story. Not me! But that doesn't mean I can't appreciate, so get off your soap box and play some Pokemon.

Games are not appropriate avenues for narrative. They get in the way of the interaction that is the strength of the medium.  The "story" of any game is best told through the actions the player takes and how he approaches his goals.  Any exposition outside of that makes no sense because all of a sudden my motivations are not my own.  It turns out instead of going around and empowering myself and exploring for fun I'm doing it for some greater good blah blah blah don't care, which button skips this cutscene.

[EmCeeGrammar]

And you know what, I take issue with you dogging Link's Awakening's better moments as fetch quests.  Taking a chain chomp for a walk so you can kill all the plant monsters blocking the dungeon door was fucking awesome. Its no different than activating an event in one part of the world and walking to the next.




                   

[naff]

Games are not appropriate avenues for narrative....

STFU. Disillusioned ninthings talking like they have a clue You need to get out more bro

[EmCeeGrammar]

I'd say the people disillusioned with thinking story has any place in a good videogame, or ever contributes to it, need to get out more.  But whatever, keep playing your male empowerment fantasies preoccupied with a delusion of eloquence or whatever helps you sleep at night.

edit: Oh wait, need to be more condescending um
   :stfu

[Himu]

And you know what, I take issue with you dogging Link's Awakening's better moments as fetch quests.  Taking a chain chomp for a walk so you can kill all the plant monsters blocking the dungeon door was fucking awesome. Its no different than activating an event in one part of the world and walking to the next.

Meh.

[Himu]

I'd say the people disillusioned with thinking story has any place in a good videogame, or ever contributes to it, need to get out more.  But whatever, keep playing your male empowerment fantasies preoccupied with a delusion of eloquence or whatever helps you sleep at night.

You haven't played a good videogame with a good story, then. Stories have their place. That's not to say every game, but in games like Zelda -- that is, action-adventure, classic adventure games, and rpgs, story does a lot to help motivations. Otherwise, stick to action games.

[EmCeeGrammar]

Its like bitching that you have to help Nabooru escape from jail and THEN you get to go to the spirit temple.  Its a trope of Zelda and nothing LA did in particular. 

[Himu]

LA has a lot of moments where you have to fetch quest to continue the story, though. Or at least, it feels more menial than other games. I'd rather just play LttP.

[EmCeeGrammar]

I'd say the people disillusioned with thinking story has any place in a good videogame, or ever contributes to it, need to get out more.  But whatever, keep playing your male empowerment fantasies preoccupied with a delusion of eloquence or whatever helps you sleep at night.

You haven't played a good videogame with a good story, then. Stories have their place. That's not to say every game, but in games like Zelda -- that is, action-adventure, classic adventure games, and rpgs, story does a lot to help motivations. Otherwise, stick to action games.

Why does a story need to define my motivations in a videogame?  If the game is good I'm going to proceed anyway.  I don't mind a premise, I don't mind some ancillary information that isn't required viewing, but exposition and cutscenes need to gtfo already.

edit: Zelda 1 did this right.  I have problems with it, but its nice that it just dumps you into the world and its up to each individual player how they explore and therefore, interpret Hyrule.  The only words spoken are cryptic hints and whatnot. I would love a Zelda game where link is dropped in a foreign country and can't understand the language or customs. The motif would be culture shock.

[Himu]

Because if that was the case you would just play muds and shit like the original rogue. Except you don't. Motivations and reasons give a reason to give a fuck. "Why am I fighting this dragon?" If I'm investing 50-60 hours into a game, I wanna know why dammit. This is half the reason I find FF13 to be average: the story telling. "Why am I going to this place?" "Why am I fighting this guy?" "What are my motivations? WHY AM I DOING THIS AND WHY ARE MY PARTY MEMBERS distinguished mentally-challenged fellows?"

[EmCeeGrammar]

Because if that was the case you would just play muds and shit like the original rogue. Except you don't. Motivations and reasons give a reason to give a fuck. "Why am I fighting this dragon?" If I'm investing 50-60 hours into a game, I wanna know why dammit.

I'm fighting the dragon because its (hopefully) fun.  I'm fighting the dragon because he stands in the way of my goal, be it an item or new area to explore.  Speaking of which, there's a dragon in the first dungeon of Zelda one!  Yet despite having no backstory such as Volvagia did, they both accomplish the same task. 

[Himu]

I know you guys are off on another thing entirely now, but the problem with retaining OoT's music/sfx isn't that they are MIDI, it's that they're really poor quality MIDI necessitated by the inherent limitations of the platform the game was originally on.  Leaving that shit more or less untouched in a remake is just awful.  It would be like if the DS remake of Dragon Quest 4 still had the NES music.

Yep it's fucking dumb dumb.

[EmCeeGrammar]

No doubt OoT 3d feels like a rush job.  I'm not buying it.

[Himu]

Because if that was the case you would just play muds and shit like the original rogue. Except you don't. Motivations and reasons give a reason to give a fuck. "Why am I fighting this dragon?" If I'm investing 50-60 hours into a game, I wanna know why dammit.

I'm fighting the dragon because its (hopefully) fun.  I'm fighting the dragon because he stands in the way of my goal, be it an item or new area to explore.  Speaking of which, there's a dragon in the first dungeon of Zelda one!  Yet despite having no backstory such as Volvagia did, they both accomplish the same task. 

It's purely circumstantial. Not all games are designed alike or even remotely play alike.

[EmCeeGrammar]

Circumstantial?
I'm playing a Zelda game. I get to the end of the dungeon.  There is a dragon boss.  I want to defeat the boss for goodies and opening new areas.  That's my motivation. This happens in Zelda 1 in the usual first dungeon, and Mount Doom in OoT.  Difference being that OoT tells me I'm doing it to liberate the gorons.  Why is that necessary information?  What if I didn't like the Gorons?  What if I'm racist and don't want to save brown rock people?  Its at these points that I find story and games incompatible. 

see also: Metroid Other M vs. Super Metroid

[Great Rumbler]

see also: Metroid Other M vs. Super Metroid

People don't back on Other M because it has a story, they bag on it because the story is PUTRID.

[Himu]

I'm talking about "why am I going into this dungeon?" "Why am I getting all of these medallions?" I prefer Majora's Mask's approach more so than the traditional "to do good!" approach. Does expounding upon the Gorons or Zora's plight take away from the game? No, it does not. So there's no reason to vilify the story telling in the least bit.

And yes, it is circumstantial. The fact that in Crush, a puzzle game with mind bendingly hard puzzles, has a story and has story scenes in between each level doesn't take away from the fact it's a great game. In fact, they add to the game, and to the game's design because the design is based AROUND the story.

Bringing up Metroid: Other M is stupid because it is an awful way of implementing story. It's like saying Transformers movies is a good argument as to why action shouldn't exist in movies. After all, Transformers sucked. So why bother?

You have no footing in this argument and seriously need to play more games or something.

[Sho Nuff]

I think the new Zelda would be better if the music was public domain favorites like Old McDonald and Turkey in the Straw

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[Himu]

I mean, I laugh at dude's who play games for story just as much as the next guy, but seriously.