Game

[Diunx]

You are an idiot Andrex

[Tasty]

I see Andrex activated his Ninthing passive aggressive "you guys just don't get it" crap when backed into a corner. Dude just admit it, you didn't get into 2D platformers until Nintendo started focusing on them again with the Wii.

I see you're doing your "ignore what I've actually said and just bash my fan-thing status" when backed into a corner.

And no, haha, it's absolutely laughable to say I didn't care about 2D platformers until the Wii. In fact it was all I did during the N64 and GC days was replay old platformers since those consoles barely had any.

The Wii was part of and contributed to a 2D platformer renaissance so I had more to play, sure, but that isn't the same thing.

O RLY?

spoiler (click to show/hide)

GBA edition only, still collecting stuff in platforming games is a million years old.

[close]

Haha, the GBA edition, sure. Collecting stuff isn't what I was focusing on, more like scoring you at the end for your skill. If we're just gonna say "LOL ANDREX SAID NSMBW STARTED COLLECTABLES" then I'm sure we could just bring up coins in Mario 1 or something from Pitfall.

In any case focusing on that bulletpoint is pretty weak. My point was that Legends is clearly influenced by DKCR/NSBMW. Which isn't a bad thing, I enjoyed the demo. But it's kind of funny how, whether Origins was also influenced or not, Rayman is falling into the same mechanics and milkage that people were decrying the New Mario series for when Origins came out.

[Tasty]

andy, you're being a dope.  don't make *me* prove it, it'll be a lot more thorough and a lot less pleasant than these fellows.

obviously rayman isn't entirely free of the influence of newer games like dkcr and more importantly nsmb (the business guys wouldn't be doing their jobs if they didn't push major successes in the genre in ancel's nose on a near-hourly basis), but some of the things you're pointing at are genre conventions (probably originally set by nintendo games, but far older ones).  i think you don't give enough credit to ancel, which is rare because usually people are giving the guy far too much credit.  i don't think he's cribbing outrageously and it's odd to poke at him every chance you get when it doesn't seem to bug you that everyone else is doing it, including nintendo's own junior designers.

I think people are taking what I said and skewing it to make it sound like something I didn't say. And I like nibbling on Ancel because some people (coughWrathcough) have put him on a pedestal while simultaneously spitting on Nintendo's games for things that Ancel is also copying. Whether it's light or heavy copying is up to interpretation; they stand out to me more because almost all I play is platformers.

And I don't give a free pass to Nintendo's platformers either. NSMB DS and 2 are both pretty hefty disappointments all things considered, although 2 wasn't as bad. And there's more examples, I liked Wario Land Shake a lot initially but the level design just doesn't hold up at all. But the console New games are great, and I think it's pretty dumb they're derided.

[benjipwns]

In any case focusing on that bulletpoint is pretty weak.

Well, it wasn't just that single bulletpoint. It was all three of the examples you gave, which you attributed to three separate recent games, are also basically all in Yoshi's Island. 40 year old Ancel doesn't need to look at Wii games to get his influence, 23 year old Ancel could have already been influenced back when he played Yoshi's Island. The new games could have just convinced him or confirmed it's still a viable mechanic.

[Tasty]

In any case focusing on that bulletpoint is pretty weak.

Well, it wasn't just that single bulletpoint. It was all three of the examples you gave, which you attributed to three separate recent games, are also basically all in Yoshi's Island. 40 year old Ancel doesn't need to look at Wii games to get his influence, 23 year old Ancel could have already been influenced back when he played Yoshi's Island. The new games could have just convinced him or confirmed it's still a viable mechanic.

I think Rayman's "end of level grading" is far more clearly linked to Yoshi's Island (which I *think* was the first well-known game to use it) than to anything newer.  Rayman 1 didn't use it, but Rayman 1 came out about three weeks after YI, and, rather tellingly, Rayman 2 *did* use it, and it's been in every Rayman platformer ever since. 

Honestly I think the only real suspicious thing in Origins/Legends is the bubbling.  There's no way that happened free of NSMB Wii's influence, I don't care what Ancel says.

I guess I can agree with this.

I really need to replay Yoshi's Island.

[Tasty]

What corner?

Exactly, what corner?

Ok cool, then you would know that you're being an idiot when listing side scrolling tropes as something uniquely Nintendo in 2012.

Uniquely? No. I'm half sure the bubbling mechanic was probably done before in some obscure indie game no one's ever heard of. I was making the case for influence, and considering the two games I keep bringing up have sold more than 30 mil combined, it isn't hard to say they're difficult to ignore.

I wonder what you call what happens at the end of the level. You know when it collects points as your score taking how many coins you collected plus how much time it took to complete the level.

The early Sonic games kind of fall out of this because it's difficult to go back and replay the same levels to improve your score. It's more the total package.

You didn't say influence, you implied it was stolen and ripped off. And no, new music, updated visuals and new areas and aesthetics is something that the New Mario series doesn't do but Rayman does. While the New Mario gameplay is solid, it never gets updated or "evolves", which is the main problem some of us have with the series.

In other words, ouimsy.

[Tasty]

I never put Ancel on a pedestal. The only 2D game of his that I played was Rayman Origins and yes I loved it. I just wanted to call you out on your shit when the three examples you gave were weak and you used recent examples that are hardly the first, and unsurprisingly they were Nintendo games.

I never said they were the first, I said they were probably what influenced Ancel. Which may or may not be the case now that I've remembered Yoshi's Island.

I never really care about who invented what and where tropes and cliches came from as long as the execution is good. And from that stand point I'll take Origins over the New Mario series any day.

Did I ever say anyone shouldn't enjoy a game if it cribs from something else? I don't care about who took what from whom either, like I said, the demo was fun (Murphy bits aside.) But there is absolutely nothing wrong with the execution of the New series aside from the mostly-superfluous audiovisual elements.

[Eel O'Brian]

TOO MUCH RAYMAN TALK

[Olivia Wilde Homo]

TOO MUCH RAYMAN TALK

It's not like there's anything remotely interesting coming out for the Wii U for a while.

[Don Flamenco]

from a non-cynical p.o.v., Nintendo pioneered so much in the genre, it's basically impossible to make a game without using something from a Nintendo game.  And even intentionally doing so isn't bad--it's called influence or not fixing what isn't broken.  As long as it's just basic stuff and the rest of the game-- physics, levels, enemies - are unique. 

Same thing happens in fighters.  You can't make a fighting game without borrowing something Capcom did with SF2 or something Sega did with VF.  Even the original SF2 "rip off" artists SNK have pioneered stuff, which Capcom has borrowed (and plot twist: the SF1 director was making all the fighting games at SNK that people were saying ripped off SF2. lolllllz.) 

[cool breeze]

Naughty Dog flat out admitted that Jak and Daxter was their attempt at making Mario 64.  It turned out great.  In a lot of ways Jak and Daxter's world design what I'd want from a Wii U 3D Mario game. 

The "who done it first" thing is kinda daft.

You know you're having a discussion with gamers when there are, like, two excellent games in a relatively under-served genre, and instead of enjoying both, they are pitted against each other in a FIGHT TO THE DEATH

settled in a round of unreal tournament! fuck that limp quake 3 shit. 

[Tasty]

Will read Oscar's essay later.

You know you're having a discussion with gamers when there are, like, two excellent games in a relatively under-served genre, and instead of enjoying both, they are pitted against each other in a FIGHT TO THE DEATH

Haha, I am enjoying both. But like Wrath said when someone picks another side it's hard for me to not start dissing one. Maybe I need a girlfriend too.

[Sho Nuff]

Christ why aren't you guys arguing about a good game instead

[Tasty]

So I ALSO played the Sanic racin' demo (DLed at the same time as Rayman.)  And I can't believe they ripped off the whole "transforming modes" thing from Mario Kart 7, do these Japanese devs have any pride whatsoever?


































LOL just kidding. I think it only came with one level but it was really fun. And apparently they patched all the brokenness like a week ago, so I might just get it if the online is any good.

[Momo]

Pretty glad my favorite platformer is obscure enough so I never have to argue with fanthings about it


EDIT: I've just realized that if Konami somehow magically made a sequel to it, it would be a smash bros clone
Platformer isn't really the best description for it, more like "side-scrolling mascot game" but a sub genre of platformers none the less. (I dunno .. can anyone here offer up a better genre for this game or should I just call it a medley game?)


The game is Wai Wai World 2 (I'm sure some of you know it but for those who do not)





It features Rikkuru(TwinBee - Dr. Cinnamon), Goemon, Contra guy(Bill), Fuma, Pentaro from Parodius, Simon Belmont, Bio Miracle Upa (<3), Twin Bee, Vic from Gradius, Frogger and such.

[Tasty]

EDIT: I've just realized that if Konami somehow magically made a sequel to it, it would be a smash bros clone

So you mean a Kirby clone?

[Momo]

EDIT: I've just realized that if Konami somehow magically made a sequel to it, it would be a smash bros clone

So you mean a Kirby clone?

They did make some shitty cellphone Wai Wai game a few years back

I'm not a big fan of the Wai Wai games.  I think they're both worse than every game the characters are pulled from.  Nice fan service, though.

The gradius and twin bee levels are very well done imo, the rest I agree but it's nice to have so many of my favs in one package.

[Tasty]

Slow platformers aren't necessarily bad, I don't get that complaint sometimes.

[Momo]

Not all levels have auto-scroll, here is one you can play at your own pace. If you mean movement/no running slow then yeah it is   

[pilonv1]

[DCharlieJP]

guess what I'm saying here is that in this particular case, I don't think the nintards are being deliberate hypocrites so much as they're being inarticulate morons.

it's the same with anything - there's two branches to it.

What you say is absolutely true - the issue is you have a slim population of people who chop and change what they say based on the "attack points" against the rival machine. The PSP got the exact same bullshit - ports and games on that were mocked where as the DS ports were not due to some weird cut off line where certain ports were acceptable and others were not.

But yes, i get that the general statement of "No one wants to play console games on a handheld" is largely true for most the population -

[Third]

New UK chart is out

23 (22) PS3 Book Of Spells (Sony Computer Ent.)
34 (__) PS3 Littlebigplanet Karting (Sony Computer Ent.)
35 (27) WiiU Nintendo Land (Nintendo)

Yes, NintendoLand is the only U sofware on the whole list.

What a disaster

[Third]

Selling better than NintendoLand and NsmbU

Can we finally burry this NSMB copy+paste franchise?

[maxy]

NL and WB are bundled with the hardware btw

[Tasty]

Selling better than NintendoLand and NsmbU

Can we finally burry this NSMB copy+paste franchise?

As long as they keep making good ones, no.

[Third]

Selling better than NintendoLand and NsmbU

Can we finally burry this NSMB copy+paste franchise?

As long as they keep making good ones, no.

Copy&paste graphics and music since 2006.

Nintendo has become so lazy. They deserve this bombing.

[Olivia Wilde Homo]

I'm sure it will accumulate some ungodly total number of sales in the next few years.

[Tasty]

Selling better than NintendoLand and NsmbU

Can we finally burry this NSMB copy+paste franchise?

As long as they keep making good ones, no.

Copy&paste graphics and music since 2006.

Nintendo has become so lazy. They deserve this bombing.

Game's still great.

[Sho Nuff]

Rayman and NSMB are both embarrassing compared to the new hotness

http://www.platformmasters.com/about.shtml

PLATFORM MASTERS

WILL YOU BE THE NEXT PLATFORM MASTER?

[Third]

Selling better than NintendoLand and NsmbU

Can we finally burry this NSMB copy+paste franchise?

As long as they keep making good ones, no.

Copy&paste graphics and music since 2006.

Nintendo has become so lazy. They deserve this bombing.

Game's still great.

Sorry, I have higher standards.

That's why I also stopped playing Pokemon games after the GBA iterations.

Jewtendo's copy&paste policy goes too far for me. 

[Tasty]

Your loss.

[Cerveza mas fina]

Wonderbook is so much cooler then NSMBU, especially if you are 8, the target audience of both games.

[Momo]

I prefer the recent Giana Sisters over Rayman and (what little I have played) of NSMBWii

[maxy]

I'm sure it will accumulate some ungodly total number of sales in the next few years.

Yeah,assuming that WiiU will be few years on the market.

The more I look at this shit the more I'm convinced that console(gaming) market has fundamentally changed.Forget about PS360,those things are running on fumes,pushed by the past.

Launch a console,have some games,post launch drought,spin in an office chair for a year...that shit is not working anymore
The problem is that hardware sales go into total shit mode very very quickly(people are not waiting) and then you have two big problems:

1.Hardware turns into dust collector = huge effort into getting users excited again
2.Costs of manufacturing,distribution,etc are not going down as planned because you sell like shit

[Diunx]

Your loss.

Not really, if anything he stopped too late.

[Cerveza mas fina]

The wii is bombing so hard the in the UK, I didn't expect this big of a blood bath. You would have thought they could ride that Wii wave a bit at least.

[Huff]

Same thing happened to the 3DS at launch

[Tasty]

I prefer the recent Giana Sisters over Rayman and (what little I have played) of NSMBWii

You are such a hipster platformer fan.

[Phoenix Dark]

The last two pages are the eqialivent of a Black Eyed Peas fan arguing they are the most innovative rap group ever. "A singer with multiple rappers, no one has done this before!"

[bork]

I just noticed that someone set up a Wii U in the break room at work.  It's going completely ignored here, too.   

[Momo]

I prefer the recent Giana Sisters over Rayman and (what little I have played) of NSMBWii

You are such a hipster platformer fan.

Apart from Sonic the Hedgehog games, pretty much yeah I've always liked stuff that wasnt particularly popular =P

[Third]

Bu bu bu it Nintendo is doing a soft launch.

*ignoring the fact that the console was released worldwide, just in time for the holiday period. Had large shipments- WiiU's rotting on the shelves everywhere


It's just a gigantic flop so far, deal with it. 

[maxy]

I'm sure it will accumulate some ungodly total number of sales in the next few years.

Yeah,assuming that WiiU will be few years on the market.

The more I look at this shit the more I'm convinced that console(gaming) market has fundamentally changed.Forget about PS360,those things are running on fumes,pushed by the past.

Launch a console,have some games,post launch drought,spin in an office chair for a year...that shit is not working anymore
The problem is that hardware sales go into total shit mode very very quickly(people are not waiting) and then you have two big problems:

1.Hardware turns into dust collector = huge effort into getting users excited again
2.Costs of manufacturing,distribution,etc are not going down as planned because you sell like shit

How is it that Apple is selling 20M of new iteration of the same fucking iPhone/ iPad each year then? They must have discovered some sales technique unknown to Sony/ Nintendo/ MS then. How do you explain that?

Good mobile phone(can't really be without one these days) +status symbol+subscription+multimedia tablet +" a name"
Mob mentality,hard to stop once you get the ball rolling
Oh look I have Iphone5... 

Until you hit the steel wall

Not to mention that Apple devices have no kids toy stigma

[Cerveza mas fina]

Hahahhahha are you Second on Gaf?

[maxy]

No,my last post on gaf was like 4 years ago.

[Third]

Hahahhahha are you Second on Gaf?

 

[Sho Nuff]

Weeoo is the place 2 go for rocking online play

http://kotaku.com/5968909/when-only-42-people-are-playing-madden-on-the-wii-u-its-not-a-sports-console

If I were the person who worked on the online component of this game I'd be having a very unhappy christmas

[Purple Filth]

Weeoo is the place 2 go for rocking online play

http://kotaku.com/5968909/when-only-42-people-are-playing-madden-on-the-wii-u-its-not-a-sports-console

If I were the person who worked on the online component of this game I'd be having a very unhappy christmas

It might depend on how much effort was placed as that could lessen the dissapointment tbh.

[Steve Youngblood]

Weeoo is the place 2 go for rocking online play

http://kotaku.com/5968909/when-only-42-people-are-playing-madden-on-the-wii-u-its-not-a-sports-console

If I were the person who worked on the online component of this game I'd be having a very unhappy christmas

I don't know. I don't work in video game development, but with the kinds of stuff I do, I kind of like the idea of a sense of finality in being able to worry less about bugs and optimization. Maybe I phoned in the netcode and there's bugs and suboptimal performance in many places. If the title was popular, I might have to fix that shit. But as it stands, I'd probably be able to close the book on that chapter as the boss isn't going to want my salary wasted supporting a title in order to ensure that 40 people have a grand ol' time.

Again, though, I don't work in games development. So, for all I know, that assumption may strike you as borderline distinguished mentally-challenged. In which case, disregard.

[Human Snorenado]

Hahahhahha are you Second on Gaf?

Yeah, Third is the guy that spent years spinning the PS3 like hell on GAF.

...Third is Evilore?  GET HIM.

[headwalk]

after a year elevating themselves above forsaken vita types through prospective sales numbers, i feel like nintendo fans have suddenly been thrown in the same cell and forced to share a toothbrush. the difference being that vitites are now hardened to the environment of perpetual mockery while the waif like nintendo holdout had always kept the jaws of ridicule at bay with an iron hide of marketplace success. now they are stripped naked, shivering and alone, with all their nightmares closing in on them.

[Human Snorenado]

And no lube in sight

[DCharlieJP]

after a year elevating themselves above forsaken vita types through prospective sales numbers, i feel like nintendo fans have suddenly been thrown in the same cell and forced to share a toothbrush. the difference being that vitites are now hardened to the environment of perpetual mockery while the waif like nintendo holdout had always kept the jaws of ridicule at bay with an iron hide of marketplace success. now they are stripped naked, shivering and alone, with all their nightmares closing in on them

what makes it so so sweet is most of the VITA LOL has come from Nthings. Still - Vita/WiiU can console themselves with the fact that they are roughly the same power wise so they are likely to get cross platform games coming to both so they can help each other out of this Sarlak style shit pit.

[Purple Filth]

Black Ops: Declassified sold more than a bunch of WiiU games....WAT?

after a year elevating themselves above forsaken vita types through prospective sales numbers, i feel like nintendo fans have suddenly been thrown in the same cell and forced to share a toothbrush. the difference being that vitites are now hardened to the environment of perpetual mockery while the waif like nintendo holdout had always kept the jaws of ridicule at bay with an iron hide of marketplace success. now they are stripped naked, shivering and alone, with all their nightmares closing in on them.

 

still hoping for Vita like japan numbers to seal it.

[Tasty]

Apple should now be public gaming enemy #1.

[Purple Filth]

Apple should now be public gaming enemy #1.

unless they really fuck with the upcoming consoles i doubt most would give a shit.

[Human Snorenado]

Apple should now be public gaming enemy #1.

They don't produce content, who gives a shit... oh, sensitive nerdlingers threatened by Apples coming dominance and Nintendo's coming irrelevance.

[Tasty]

Apple should now be public gaming enemy #1.

They don't produce content, who gives a shit... oh, sensitive nerdlingers threatened by Apples coming dominance and Nintendo's coming irrelevance.

"Coming?"

[DCharlieJP]

Bu bu bu it Nintendo is doing a soft launch.

i love that i said this months ago from the TK launch run in, got slagged off for it and now the figures are rolling in everywhere else ITS A SOFT LAUNCH!

loooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooootrolololol

[Third]

Well, Nintendo only wants to sell 5.5mln units by april next year.

Definitely a soft launch!

spoiler (click to show/hide)

I have a feeling that they won't even reach 2mln

[close]

spoiler (click to show/hide)

Poor Andrex

[close]