So is Windows 8 worth getting for laptop/desktop?

[Cerveza mas fina]

my man

Why isnt this in the store though?

[Reb]

Microsoft has the audacity to charge 1.19 for FILE EXPLORER.

I have a feeling I was cheated into buying half an OS

Wait, what is this? This is a misunderstanding right?

[Cerveza mas fina]

You have file explorer in desktop ofc, but its not there in metro

[MCD]

Mmm...MS didn't make that app.

[Van Cruncheon]

why would you use any other windows browser than ie

[MCD]

Real talk: IE10 is fuck awesome. It's fast and fluid unlike IE9 and I love how it renders the pages (kinda boxy, dunno what to call it).

Sorry for shilling IE9 because that shit was NASTY in comparison.

And BTW someone should promote whoever designed the sexy Retail Upgrade packaging.

[MCD]

Now excuse me...I need to install my Hentai games.

[recursivelyenumerable]

my man

Why isnt this in the store though?

It goes back to the fuckedupness of browsers in the MOSH immersive modern tailored Metro style WinRT Windows 8 style Windows Store new environment. You can't make a good browser that runs in the sandbox that apps you install through the store run in, so there's a special exception made for browsers - they can just be desktop apps which can do everything other desktop apps can do, but can also run in the new environment and use the features available there. Since they are really just desktop apps, you download and install them like any normal program instead of installing it through the store. This only works for the browser you set as default, probably done because otherwise apps would all start declaring themselves to be "browsers" to get this ability. It's a clever but kind of cheap and confusing hack.

[MCD]

Honestly, I see no reason to use IE Metro on a desktop PC.

On tablets and maybe laptops, sure.

[recursivelyenumerable]

Yeah, I use it on my laptop much of the time and enjoy it - I've started to get this visceral "WTF is all this crap" reaction when seeing the desktop browser chrome (yeah I could F11 fullscreen it, but that's too janky and inconsistent). It's weird having to switch to the desktop on the occasions I realize I want to compare two pages side-by-side or something, but not really annoying in practice. If I were on a full desktop monitor I'd probably just stay in the desktop 99% of the time though.

[recursivelyenumerable]

there is no official Metro File Explorer btw, those are all third party apps.

[MCD]

And for Himu: you can Right click --> Copy on an image in IE10 and it will copy the actual image source now.

[Himu]

Wow, really? I may actually use IE10 when I get Win 8 then. Thanks for applying something firefox has had 10~ years, Microsoft.

[recursivelyenumerable]

One thing that bugs me about Metro IE10: WHY IS THERE AN "OPEN LINK" OPTION IN THE CONTEXT MENU WHEN YOU CAN JUST CLICK

[MCD]

I bugged them for 2 years just for you, himu chan. 

Also built in auto spell check. Only reason to use other browsers now is for addons and that's a valid complaint but for just browsing, IE10 is solid.

If you need AD Block, use the built in tracking protection: Tools --> Manage addons --> Tracking Protection --> add a list from the MS website. Fanboy list does the job well.

[Himu]

I bugged them for 2 years just for you, himu chan. 

 

[Shaka Khan]

Can someone help me with this issue: I don't know what I did, but right now I have a Chrome Metro installed, while my regular Win 7 Chrome is installed on the desktop. The two are completely separated save for Google Sync. The Metro app has subtle changes that I'm not fond of, and is quite buggy at the moment (e.g. I have the annoying thin ribbon at the top that steals some of my screen space, not to mention every time I close it then reopen it, I get the "google chrome was not properly shut down " error).

My roommate, on the other hand, has his desktop Chrome shortcut linked to Metro. How can I do that until the Metro version gets sorted out?

[G The Resurrected]

How can I do that until the Metro version gets sorted out?

right click in metro start, then go to all apps and find Chrome then right click and pin to start. metro apps will be shown first so you will have to go past them to find the correct chrome.

[Shaka Khan]

I only have one Chrome in All Apps (Chrome icon on a black tile, it's the only one that looks like that), and that's the Metro version.

[recursivelyenumerable]

Read what I posted earlier about the browser situation - those two browsers are actually the same app (the same executable) running in a different mode. They are just pretending to be two separate apps for whatever reason. So it gets one tile and what that tile does depends on the browser's own settings, so there should be something in the Chrome settings somewhere (I should install it and see for myself)

[Tasty]

http://ozar.me/2012/10/why-im-returning-my-microsoft-surface-rt/

[D3RANG3D]

http://ozar.me/2012/10/why-im-returning-my-microsoft-surface-rt/

Once I get the surface pro my nexus 7 is going in the trash

[Tasty]

Wow at this Office video. WTF MS?

[MCD]

You do realize that the Surface RT shipped with Office 2013 beta, right?

And they just issued a 500mb update that makes it the final version, for free.

[Shaka Khan]

Read what I posted earlier about the browser situation - those two browsers are actually the same app (the same executable) running in a different mode. They are just pretending to be two separate apps for whatever reason. So it gets one tile and what that tile does depends on the browser's own settings, so there should be something in the Chrome settings somewhere (I should install it and see for myself)

I couldn't find anything in Chrome's settings that gives me back control of which mode I should use. The popular workaround that's floating around is to unpin the Metro Chrome, then go to Chrome Desktop executable and pin it to the Start menu. However this solution can only go so far; as soon as you close the Chrome window the tile disappears from the Metro Start menu. To work around this a few registry edits are required... Registry edits make me uneasy, especially in cases involving app future app updates.

[MCD]

Just uninstall Chrome till they sort it out.

Stick with IE Metro or any Desktop browser in the mean time.

[Shaka Khan]

I'd rather stay without internet access than use IE.

[recursivelyenumerable]

OK, downloading Chrome now, let's see if I can work this out

[Shaka Khan]

:wub

[MCD]

I'd rather stay without internet access than use IE.

le sigh.

[recursivelyenumerable]

Uhhh wow, Metro Chrome is really fucked up. AFAICT the only way to use it on desktop without resorting to some dubious registry hacks is to pin it to the taskbar (right click on tile / All Apps search result, Pin to Taskbar) and run it from there. If you don't want to use IE you could just use Firefox while you wait for Google to get their shit together. Unlike Chrome Firefox's Metro version won't be included in the installs until it's ready, so it'll just open on the desktop everywhere. Lately Firefox has been getting better and Chrome has been getting worse anyway.

The Google Search app in the store is actually pretty good, though.

[mjemirzian]

wow 100+, that is like a whole page and a half of Apps screen

Wow, what an insightful comment.  The start screen seems fine for your average windows user, but not power users. Aside from the issues I mentioned, there's no context menu access from the start screen or apps list. Right clicking a shortcut gets you a very limited number of options. You have to go to the ironically named "C:\Users\xxxx\AppData\Roaming\Microsoft\Windows\Start Menu" folder to do management or creation of shortcuts that the apps screen uses. I'd be glad to use the start screen and apps list once someone points out how I can just as easily access, organize, and manage my shortcuts.

I'd also like to get rid of the desktop shortcuts like the charms bar which don't seem very useful for non-tablet users.

[Van Cruncheon]

what does chrome do that ie doesn't

[recursivelyenumerable]

It doesn't have an obnoxiously bloated context menu on the desktop?

[MCD]

what does chrome do that ie doesn't

Adware

Oh wait

[recursivelyenumerable]

The start screen seems fine for your average windows user, but not power users. Aside from the issues I mentioned, there's no context menu access from the start screen or apps list. Right clicking a shortcut gets you a very limited number of options. You have to go to the ironically named "C:\Users\xxxx\AppData\Roaming\Microsoft\Windows\Start Menu" folder to do management or creation of shortcuts that the apps screen uses.

isn't it ironic, I really do think

but you should probably just install a third-party start menu and be done with it.

[mjemirzian]

isn't it ironic, I really do think

but you should probably just install a third-party start menu and be done with it.

Yeah, I have no problem installing Classic Shell or something similar. In fact I already have Win 8 running on virtualbox with Classic Shell installed and I'm happy with it. I just wanted to point out that the start screen isn't as useful for heavy power users as the start menu.

The start menu isn't perfect, of course. I always thought it would be better if you had the option to make the start menu appear from the position of the mouse cursor like a context menu, so you wouldn't have to move the mouse to the edge of the screen to launch a program.

[Shaka Khan]

what does chrome do that ie doesn't

Faster, more minimal, better extension support, shorter cycles of true seamless updates, so it's virtually getting better all time. EVEN AT THE TIME OF WRITING THIS!

(Disclaimer: First point could be arguable in light recent updates)

Edit: Did IE finally join the others in Syncing everything, btw?

[MCD]

IE10 install updates automatically. Faster update cycles are what ruined Firefox and currently speaking, Chrome.

But the point was, avoid Metro Chrome and stick with any Desktop browser or Metro IE.

[Van Cruncheon]

what does chrome do that ie doesn't

Faster, more minimal, better extension support, shorter cycles of true seamless updates, so it's virtually getting better all time. EVEN AT THE TIME OF WRITING THIS!

(Disclaimer: First point could be arguable in light recent updates)

Edit: Did IE finally join the others in Syncing everything, btw?

chrome speed versus ie9 is purely synthetic and of no practical or observational worth. on paper, yeah, ie10 is faster.

the point is: in the REAL WORLD, with REAL web usage, what makes ie such a horrible experience that you would reject it outright?

i use all three of the major browsers. all three start quick, and render 95% of the web sites i visit correctly. all three have some method, be it extensions or built-in options, to do things like ad blocking and spellchecking or the other big bullet points.

firefox likes to crash a lot these days, but beyond the petty opinions of the lowest form of developer -- web designer -- there is NO REAL PRACTICAL DIFFERENCE in day to day performance between the big three. you can swap any one of them out for the other and your experience may have a few trivial differences. there's no reason to stridently avoid one.

[Rusty Shackleford]

what does chrome do that ie doesn't

Faster, more minimal, better extension support, shorter cycles of true seamless updates, so it's virtually getting better all time. EVEN AT THE TIME OF WRITING THIS!

(Disclaimer: First point could be arguable in light recent updates)

Edit: Did IE finally join the others in Syncing everything, btw?

Shaka, have you tried running old XP/7 applications or are you using designed-for-8 applications? I'm curious to see what people's experience has been with older applications in 8.

[recursivelyenumerable]

Edit: Did IE finally join the others in Syncing everything, btw?

It will sync favorites and history on Windows 8 if you sign in with a Microsoft account.

[recursivelyenumerable]

In other news, I just got to play with a Surface RT. The touch cover only took me a few minutes to get reasonably comfortable with typing on it. I guess I could probably do around 60-70 wpm on it, vs. ~40 on a software keyboard or ~80-90 on a real keyboard. It kinda made me want to get one, but I think I'll hold out for 2nd generation (not the Pro, but whatever comes after that).

[demi]

Not a fan of how Chrome handles bookmarks, and their options are tucked away in menus within menus. FireFox is just bloated, it's immediately noticable.

I browse porn sites, torrent sites, and more on IE9 and have had no issue. Shaka is a queen.

[MCD]

In other news, I just got to play with a Surface RT. The touch cover only took me a few minutes to get reasonably comfortable with typing on it. I guess I could probably do around 60-70 wpm on it, vs. ~40 on a software keyboard or ~80-90 on a real keyboard. It kinda made me want to get one, but I think I'll hold out for 2nd generation (not the Pro, but whatever comes after that).

No Type Cover in the wild?

[mjemirzian]

Imo the main difference between Chrome, Firefox, and IE are the addons you can install.

If you think Firefox is too bloated try Pale Moon.

[recursivelyenumerable]

Nope

[demi]

I forgot you registered here mjemir. I appreciated your opinions on strat games over on the other board and yor blog.

[recursivelyenumerable]

Shaka, have you tried running old XP/7 applications or are you using designed-for-8 applications? I'm curious to see what people's experience has been with older applications in 8.

It's pretty much the same as 7 save a few corner cases (probably the biggest one is that programs are no longer allowed to set default file associations automatically, they can only bring up a system dialog asking you to make the change. this can be confusing with older program installers that might say they've set the associations when actually it silently failed, though they'll still install and run fine and everything, and the next time you open a file with an extension the installer tried to map the system will ask you if you want to change the defaults)

[Rusty Shackleford]

Shaka, have you tried running old XP/7 applications or are you using designed-for-8 applications? I'm curious to see what people's experience has been with older applications in 8.

It's pretty much the same as 7 save a few corner cases (probably the biggest one is that programs are no longer allowed to set default file associations automatically, they can only bring up a system dialog asking you to make the change. this can be confusing with older program installers that might say they've set the associations when actually it silently failed, though they'll still install and run fine and everything, and the next time you open a file with an extension the installer tried to map the system will ask you if you want to change the defaults)

OK thanks. What about the virtual XP machine that came with 7 for legacy apps? Does something similar still exist in 8? I've got old versions of CAD and MATLAB.

[Shaka Khan]

chrome speed versus ie9 is purely synthetic and of no practical or observational worth. on paper, yeah, ie10 is faster.

the point is: in the REAL WORLD, with REAL web usage, what makes ie such a horrible experience that you would reject it outright?

i use all three of the major browsers. all three start quick, and render 95% of the web sites i visit correctly. all three have some method, be it extensions or built-in options, to do things like ad blocking and spellchecking or the other big bullet points.

firefox likes to crash a lot these days, but beyond the petty opinions of the lowest form of developer -- web designer -- there is NO REAL PRACTICAL DIFFERENCE in day to day performance between the big three. you can swap any one of them out for the other and your experience may have a few trivial differences. there's no reason to stridently avoid one.

In all honesty it all comes down to sticking to what already works, especially when there no vastly superior alternatives. Customization and add-ons made me drop Old IE for FF. Launch time, speed, memory consumption, and addition of extensions to Chrome made me drop FF for Chrome.

From your description it seems there aren't enough reasons to drop Chrome for IE right now. But who knows, quality of Win 8 support might do it in the near future.

[recursivelyenumerable]

OK thanks. What about the virtual XP machine that came with 7 for legacy apps? Does something similar still exist in 8? I've got old versions of CAD and MATLAB.

No idea, are you sure you really need the VM to run them in 7 either though? Isn't that really only for pathological cases?

[Rusty Shackleford]

OK thanks. What about the virtual XP machine that came with 7 for legacy apps? Does something similar still exist in 8? I've got old versions of CAD and MATLAB.

No idea, are you sure you really need the VM to run them in 7 either though? Isn't that really only for pathological cases?

It's actually CAD I was thinking about...it was an older copy even for XP so I'd rather not get 8 up and running only to find out I'll have problems.

Well, it's not a big deal. I can wait for VMware Player or Virtual Box to be 8-ready.

[Cerveza mas fina]

How do I turn of my PC in W8?

 

[recursivelyenumerable]

Hit the power button

but there's a power icon in the settings charm flyout.

[mjemirzian]

I forgot you registered here mjemir. I appreciated your opinions on strat games over on the other board and yor blog.

Thanks. My blog is still chugging along.. I can't seem to get the motivation to update it more than a few times a month. I like playing games more than I do writing about them.

[MCD]

How do I turn of my PC in W8?

 

Charms bar --> Settings then Power.

[demi]

I forgot you registered here mjemir. I appreciated your opinions on strat games over on the other board and yor blog.

Thanks. My blog is still chugging along.. I can't seem to get the motivation to update it more than a few times a month. I like playing games more than I do writing about them.

For sure. Hope to see you around here more.

[Himu]

How quick is shut down?

[MCD]

5 sec on my PC.