Torment: Tides of Numenera

[Howard Alan Treesong]

http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2013/01/09/planescape-torment-sequel/

Rumours have been swirling for years about a possible sequel to Black Isle’s legendary and powerful roleplaying game Planescape: Torment, but the closure of the original studio and the jealous guarding of the Planescape rights by owners Wizards of the Coast seemed to have put paid to any comeback. But with original Interplay boss Brian Fargo very much back in the RPG business with current studio inXile’s wildly successful Wasteland 2 crowdfunding, everything changes. He and his team have come up with a way to make a new Torment game: this is really happening.

And there was much rejoicing.

Read on for details of its new setting, the people involved, whether it’ll link to the original game, which thematic aspects will recur, how the combat may work and how they’ll get it made.


First up, the new setting for this new Torment will be Numenera, an original roleplaying setting and system created (and recently Kickstarted by) Monte Cook, a contributing writer/designer on the original Planescape pen and paper RPG and assorted other Wizards of the Coast projects. A mix of fantasy and sci-fi with a strong focus on storytelling freedom, it may not be Planescape but hopefully it offers an appropriate blend of liberty and strangeness for a new Torment game. Have a look at its site for fulsome details of what’s planned for it. Here, meanwhile, inXile boss Brian Fargo sheds a whole lot of light on what the partnership means for his studio’s Torment sequel.

RPS- I know he revealed it back in August and seemed to have a ton of groundwork done already, but is Monte Cook’s Numenera setting being designed with a Torment game in mind to any extent? Will you guys have a chance to shape his plans for that as you’ll be working together?

Fargo: The wheels for the Torment game have been in motion for quite some time. The more we explored the Numenera setting, the clearer it became that it’s a natural fit for a Torment game. And it isn’t too surprising that Numenera’s aesthetics work well for Torment given that Monte was a key designer for the Planescape setting.

Numenera is very exotic and rich, but is a flexible universe that empowers and support GMs. As Torment desires certain locations or features, we’ll be able to do what we need to while fully respecting the setting. This goes beyond a typical licensing arrangement as Monte will be giving us direct input and even provide writing for some of the game areas. I’m really pleased to have Monte be part of the team.

RPS – What are the stand-out aspects of Numenera for you, in terms of suiting your dev plans? How much is about the setting and how much the roleplaying mechanics?

Fargo: A Torment game requires big ideas and a truly exotic setting in order to explore the underlying thematic elements. Colin described it best when he said “Torment’s themes are essentially metaphysical, getting to the heart of what it means to be alive and conscious, and it’s easier to ask those questions in a setting that is far removed from the familiar.”  Numenera is such a setting, and it has tremendous potential to cultivate those ideas.  We won’t have faeries or devils, but we’ll have diabolical creatures from far dimensions with schemes beyond human imagination. We won’t have gods, but we’ll have creatures who have lived for millennia with the powers of creation and destruction at their fingertips, with abilities honed over countless lifetimes. We won’t have other planes per se, but we’ll have pathways to hostile worlds and bizarre landscapes and ancient machines that catapult the players into places where the ordinary laws of nature no longer apply. In terms of role-playing mechanics, we won’t be attempting to literally translate the Numenera tabletop system into electronic form. However, its gameplay mechanics are very solid and include several components that will lend themselves to great (and innovative) cRPG gameplay. It’s great to have the Numenera rules as a starting point and to be working with Monte to adapt them for a cRPG.


RPS – Given no Planescape and presumably none of the PST characters, what makes a Torment game a Torment game to your mind?

Fargo: We know it hasn’t been done often in the game industry, but we’re envisioning Torment as a thematic franchise with certain themes that can expand over different settings and stories. We will focus on the same things that made people appreciate PST so much: overturning RPG tropes; a fantastic, unconventional setting; memorable companions; deep thematic exploration of the human condition; heavy reactivity (i.e., choice and consequences); an intensely personal (rather than epic) story.

RPS – How much are you thinking of working in overt links to/echoes of PST as opposed to broader thematic commonality? And what are the legal restrictions there – for instance, if you wanted to include a smartass talking skull with a dark secret, could you include a smartass talking skull with a dark secret?

Fargo: Rather than overt links, we are trying to recapture the feeling that players experienced through PST –both while playing it and after having completed a playthrough. We will remain true to the essence of PST, but we’ll also be looking for ways to improve the areas in which PST could have been even better. Fortunately, besides our personal experiences, we have years of feedback from other passionate PST fans to draw upon. We certainly would not infringe on any copyrights but with that said there are very few elements in RPGs that can be protected. There are several games with talking skull heads, for example, if we wanted to incorporate things of that nature.


RPS – Where are inXile up to in terms of designing this thing, given you’ve presumably incredibly busy with Wasteland? Will you be working on it concurrently with Wasteland or saving it for later?

Fargo: We’re very early in Torment’s preproduction right now. We have a basic story outline, design sketches of the major characters, and thematic concepts defined. Wasteland 2 is in full production and we don’t want to detract from that focus. But with that said, the writers on Wasteland are complete for the most part and the concept artists are not involved at this stage in the game. The guys working on Torment are no longer working on Wasteland 2 and I want to keep these talented guys busy for us.  Typically we do begin design of the next game while the production team is working on the current one. This allows the team to take a nice break once they are complete on the current game and then come back to roll onto a design that is thorough and polished. The last thing we want to do is break up a winning team.

I find this model creates a better quality flow of product and doesn’t have the team jumping onto a sequel before there has been adequate time to absorb the feedback from the game that just shipped. It is a luxury that most mid size developers are not able to have and it allows the time required to create classics. I never like sequels to be rushed and working this way ensures the team works on fresh ideas.


RPS – While PST was a team effort Avellone’s become the poster boy for it since release – so, have you been thinking/talking about getting him involved? And if you can’t for any reason, do you have a plan on how to convince the PST faithful that is a true-blue Torment?

Fargo: Chris deserves all the credit that he receives and we are working with him on Wasteland 2 as you know. My role as executive producer is to assemble top notch teams and to make sure we stay on point for what we are creating. I’m really happy with the team we have assembled for this game. It was Chris who urged me to work with both Colin McComb and Kevin Saunders for this project and he has given us his blessing for another Torment. Colin McComb and Monte Cook were two of the primary developers of the Planescape campaign setting for TSR, and Colin was one of the main designers on the original Torment. Colin serves as creative lead for this Torment and will be driving the story vision for the game.

Kevin Saunders, the project director, worked with Chris at Obsidian for 5 years – including leading the Mask of the Betrayer (MotB) team.  People might remember that MotB was very well received and there were more than a few comparisons to PST. Kevin was also the lead designer and producer for Shattered Galaxy, which swept the 2001 Independent Games Festival and was acknowledged by GameSpot as the Most Innovative Game of the year.

Additionally, we have one of the unsung heroes of PST on the design team: scripter Adam Heine, who really helped breathe life into the game. He was also one of the designers on Black Isle’s TORN, having moved to that position in large part because of his excellent work on PST.

Our talented artists include Dana Knutson, the concept artist from the original Planescape campaign setting, and he’s been helping bring our ideas to life.

And to really show we are serious about the writing aspects of this game we brought Ray Vallese in as the editor to ensure the detail and consistency of the story. Ray too was part of the Planescape team at TSR.

There will be some other surprise talent that I’ll announce later on but I thought it important to stress the heritage of the great team we have. I feel quite confident that the players of PST will feel comfortable and appreciate the experience being created.


RPS – Real/pause time or turn-based?

Fargo: I’ll let the producer Kevin Saunders answer that one: “The details of combat are still an open question, but our initial leaning is that real-time with pause will provide the better experience for the game. Whichever direction we ultimately take it, we’ll be giving combat considerable attention – we are aware that one of the criticisms of PST (including from Avellone) was its combat and we want to improve upon that aspect. The Numenera combat system provides a  stronger starting place for a cRPG than AD&D 2nd Edition did and we’ll prototype early so that we have ample time to iterate over the course of the project. We are also working on ways to weave narrative elements into the combat system such that the gameplay and story complement each other. But I should mention that even while enhancing combat, we will stay true to PST by making it so players can almost completely avoid battles based upon their choices.”


RPS – Are you thinking Kickstarter again?

Fargo: Absolutely. There are obvious advantages to Kickstarter for both developers and backers. We get our games funded without dealing with a crazy publisher and the backer gets a game for much less than what the finished product would cost non-backers. But beyond that, the benefit of crowd funding is that it provides feedback and accountability to the people who are actually going to play the game. It validates the concept and helps us prioritize the sensibilities of the project. We are not forced to compromise for the thought of how the “mass market” might react. It’s a wonderfully pure process and one that hinges on trust.

RPS – Can you talk about why Wizards of the Coast were resistant to licensing Planescape again?

Fargo: We asked and were rebuffed. In reality we didn’t push very hard on licensing it as the team was excited to work with Monte on Numenera and they felt that there would be less creative restriction. And WotC has been pretty silent on this space for some time. Neither Feargus nor I was able to get a Baldur’s Gate 3 project going.

RPS – Did you meet any resistance when seeking the Torment name?

Fargo: I patiently waited for someone to do something with a Torment concept but nothing happened. After many years the rights expired and allowed me to step in and put together a great team to make another title of its kind. We will improve on the mechanics and deliver a deep narrative story that is deserving of the name Torment.

RPS – Thanks for your (pause-)time.

[Great Rumbler]

weroiw3eroi234u590834u5kljhsdf9op8yu234op8uweriuyhaedrukihwe4iupy1234 98723wkljhdf;siuoy239487234

[Steve Contra]

[Great Rumbler]

Here's some pictures from the Numenera P&P project:

[Diunx]

QUE???

[Don Flamenco]

i always read it "planet scape"

[Human Snorenado]

Brian Fargo... not sure if can like.

[Howard Alan Treesong]

Brian Fargo... not sure if can like.

Yes, despite the thread title, I'm very :fryface about this.

Art and premise are good, but let's see how Wasteland 2 turns out before we pop the champagne, shall we?

[Human Snorenado]

Brian Fargo... not sure if can like.

Yes, despite the thread title, I'm very :fryface about this.

Art and premise are good, but let's see how Wasteland 2 turns out before we pop the champagne, shall we?

That's pretty much been my attitude about Wasteland 2 from the beginning.  It could be really awesome but I'm not about to get my hopes up.  This kind of hits closer to home because the original game is essentially the best rpg ever and I don't want to have to choke a bitch over being disappointed with a "sequel" but we'll see.

[Great Rumbler]

Brian Fargo... not sure if can like.

Brian Fargo is just the guy pulling together the team and then cracking the whip. The guys doing the development are:

Colin McComb [writer for Planescape: Torment]
Kevin Saunders [lead designer on Neverwinter Nights 2: Mask of the Betrayer]
Monte Cook [long-time D&D module writer]
Dana Knutson [artist on Planescape P&P]
Ray Vallese [writer of Planescape: Torment novelization]

There's supposed to be a gameplay video out soon for Wasteland 2, by the way.

[tiesto]

Hmm wasn't this announced a bit earlier I thought? Interesting to see what will be done with the story mostly since I always thought Torment wrapped everything up pretty concisely.

[Cerveza mas fina]

I have a boxes version of Planescape Torment and Baldurs Gate 2 at my parents place. Never played more then 30 min.

Is it worth to try them still or has that moment gone?

[Great Rumbler]

Is it worth to try them still or has that moment gone?

Go for it, Lager. Check around for mods/patches, there's a ton and they make a pretty big difference. There are threads on GOG that detail the process and provide links.

Hmm wasn't this announced a bit earlier I thought? Interesting to see what will be done with the story mostly since I always thought Torment wrapped everything up pretty concisely.

It's not a continuation of the Torment story, or even actually a Planescape game, but rather a spiritual successor in an entirely new setting that's intended to use a lot of the same themes and ideas that made Torment what it was.

And the rumor's been floating around for a while, but I think this is the first official word from Brian Fargo.

[Himu]

god fucking damn.

[Phoenix Dark]

Will there be a WiiU version?

[Cormacaroni]

will Kickstart

[Momo]

it's gonna suuuuuuuuuuuuuuuck

[Brehvolution]

  momo

[Great Rumbler]

First piece of concept art specifically for the videogame:

[Cormacaroni]

grimdark +5

[Great Rumbler]

grimdark +5

[HyperZoneWasAwesome]

I wish ineXile had more then just a pretty good update of Choplifter to refer to for their highlight reel for the last decade.

[Great Rumbler]

I wish ineXile had more then just a pretty good update of Choplifter to refer to for their highlight reel for the last decade.

Hunted: The Demon's Forge isn't exactly a modern-day classic, but it's a reasonably competent if ultimately shallow fantasy rendition of Gears of War.

[demi]

And thats a good thing to highlight??

[Great Rumbler]

And thats a good thing to highlight??

Better than nothing.

[Great Rumbler]

https://torment.inxile-entertainment.com/

[Great Rumbler]

Kickstarter is going up on Wednesday.

[archie4208]

http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/inxile/torment-tides-of-numenera

[Great Rumbler]

Already hit $175k in just a few hours. Yeah, I think all the hand-wringing about whether they would be able to do this a second time just got blown out of the water.

Edit: Aaaand another $45k in the last 13 minutes.

[archie4208]

309k in less than 2 hours. 

[Himu]

Was going to toss in some cash. Now I don't need to.

[Great Rumbler]

First gaming KS to break $4M? Or $3M without Paypal?

For reference: Wasteland 2 hit $470k on Day 1 [$2.9 million total] and Project: Eternity hit $705k on Day 1 [$3.9 million total].

Torment will likely hit $800k by 11:00 am on the west coast [i.e. about five minutes from now].

[Himu]

funded in 6 hours.

[Great Rumbler]

Yup, $900k in six hours and quickly closing on the $1 million mark. Someone mentioned on another forum that $1 million was roughly what Double Fine got on their first full day, so...yeah.

[Great Rumbler]

Fastest game-related Kickstarter to reach $1 million. It took less than seven hours. Ouya took 8 hours.

[Human Snorenado]

Fastest game-related Kickstarter to reach $1 million. It took less than seven hours. Ouya took 8 hours.

Chances this will be better than Ouya- about a bajillion to one

[mjemirzian]

I like WRPGs. Lots of player choice, multiple quest endings, etc. is cool. This looks like a game I'd enjoy. I also liked Fallout 3 and Fallout: New Vegas.

[Howard Alan Treesong]

Fastest game-related Kickstarter to reach $1 million. It took less than seven hours. Ouya took 8 hours.

Chances this will be better than Ouya- about a bajillion to one

[tiesto]

I like WRPGs. Lots of player choice, multiple quest endings, etc. is cool. This looks like a game I'd enjoy. I also liked Fallout 3 and Fallout: New Vegas.

Most of the western RPGs I've played, the "player choice" just affected mainly dialogue stuff. And the multiple endings - weren't anything too special to begin with.. maybe some slightly different 'talking heads' scenes in there. For all the hype of "you make the story", I haven't really played many that really took it to the extreme.

[Steve Contra]

We can all admit that most of the well known WRPGs from the Planescape era are better than any JRPG ever, however.

[tiesto]

We can all admit that most of the well known WRPGs from the Planescape era are better than any JRPG ever, however.

Disagree, I liked Planescape better than most western RPGs but still wouldn't rate it on my top 20 RPG list. Not into the battle system, music, or artstyle at all.

(yes I know oldskool PC 'bore is gonna gang up on me for that one, but I never was big into PC gaming while growing up and have no real nostalgia for it)

[Steve Contra]

The cover alone is better than anything Square ever put out.

[tiesto]

I don't think we ever agree on anything, Steve

[Steve Contra]

Aphex Twin?

[Himu]

So who is going to be the studio crafting this?

[Human Snorenado]

JRPGs are the anal prolapse of video games, after all.

[tiesto]

JRPGs are the anal prolapse of video games, after all.

You know you'd want a new classic style Phantasy Star game, Triumph 

Aphex Twin?

Like him but not my favorite, even in just the IDM genre.

[Great Rumbler]

So who is going to be the studio crafting this?

inXile, a studio founded by Brian Fargo [the guy who founded Interplay]. And here's the rest of the team:

Colin McComb (Creative Lead) was a key designer for TSR’s Planescape setting and wrote many products for the Dungeons & Dragons franchise (including the award-winning Birthright Campaign Setting) and Paizo's Pathfinder setting. He worked as a designer on Fallout 2 and Planescape: Torment and was a writer for Wasteland 2. Colin’s self-published work includes the first two books in his Oathbreaker series.

Monte Cook (Numenera Creator) has been a tabletop RPG designer since 1988, with his many works including D&D 3rd Edition, Ptolus, and Arcana Evolved. With Colin, he was responsible for much of the Planescape setting. His newest creation, Numenera, was crowdfunded through Kickstarter in September 2012, raising more than 2,500% of its target funding goal.

Kevin Saunders (Project Director) has been developing video games since 1998 and worked for five years on RPGs at Obsidian Entertainment. He was the lead designer and producer for Shattered Galaxy, the critically acclaimed massively multiplayer online real-time strategy game, as well as Mask of the Betrayer, considered by many RPG fans to be the game closest to Planescape: Torment (so far). One of Kevin’s specialties is game interface design, and last year he published the second edition of his book on the topic.

Mark Morgan (Composer) has composed music for film, television, and video games, including Planescape: Torment, Fallout, Fallout 2, Fallout: New Vegas, and Wasteland 2. He is composing at least 40 minutes of music for Torment, and he composed the music for Torment’s Kickstarter video.

The skilled concept artists involved in Torment include Nils Hamm, Dana Knutson (concept artist for TSR’s Planescape setting), Andree Wallin, and Chang Yuan.

The passion and love for Planescape: Torment runs deep among many in the game development industry. Because of their excitement about the project and their faith in the assembled team, they have worked hard on preproduction, though the level of their involvement in Torment during production will depend on the success of this campaign. These devoted experts include Adam Heine (scripter and designer for Planescape: Torment), Aaron Meyers (artist on Planescape: Torment and lead artist for Star Wars: Knights of the Old Republic 2 and Alpha Protocol), and Ray Vallese (editor for the Planescape setting).

[Himu]

I'm sold.

[Cormacaroni]

backed the Torment + Wasteland 2 tier. This makes me marginally more likely to actually play the games, in theory

[Cormacaroni]

I have some qualms of course - namely that Dragon Age was billed as a spiritual successor to Baldur's Gate and was disappointing. Hopefully the lack of publisher interference will lead to more of that unquantifiable stuff that I love in Torment tho

[Great Rumbler]

Dragon Age did at least bring back something like that style of game, and with a pretty decent budget. It had some problems and some things that could have been done better, sure. The sequel was supposed to fix all that, but...well...yeah.

[Human Snorenado]

The sequel was never really supposed to fix anything.  It was supposed to be shoveled out quickly to capitalize on the first game's success, and to dudebro it up.  Mission accomplished on both points.

[mjemirzian]

I liked Dragon Age II's combat. Nightmare mode was fun to play through and I liked the class synergy. Although the best team did end up being a bunch of ranged attackers because of friendly fire.

Plot and characters were pretty unbearable though.

[Phoenix Dark]

I like WRPGs. Lots of player choice, multiple quest endings, etc. is cool. This looks like a game I'd enjoy. I also liked Fallout 3 and Fallout: New Vegas.

Most of the western RPGs I've played, the "player choice" just affected mainly dialogue stuff. And the multiple endings - weren't anything too special to begin with.. maybe some slightly different 'talking heads' scenes in there. For all the hype of "you make the story", I haven't really played many that really took it to the extreme.

translation: Annah-of-the-Shadows wasn't uguu enough

[Great Rumbler]

The sequel was never really supposed to fix anything.  It was supposed to be shoveled out quickly to capitalize on the first game's success, and to dudebro it up.  Mission accomplished on both points.

You're right, but that was the assumption after DA1 came out. As in, "Okay, they've got the foundation set up, they've got all the systems in place, so the sequel will be able to flesh things out more and finesse the aspects of the first game that didn't work quite right." Instead, as you say, everything from the first game got tossed out and they decided they wanted a fast-paced action game to appeal to the dude-bro crowd. Because EA.

[Cormacaroni]

That was exactly my naive assumption too, GR

[mjemirzian]

DA II on Nightmare was no joke. Try to play that like a dudebro and you'll get destroyed. 100% friendly fire damage, remember?

[Great Rumbler]

100% friendly fire damage, remember?

No.

[Howard Alan Treesong]

This is looking like a $5 million Kickstarter. O_O