US Politics Thread |OT| THE DARKEST TIMELINE

[brawndolicious]

As disgusting as politics can be here in Germany, it's funny how transparently vicious and asinine yours are. It's like everything is turned up to eleven without any shame whatsoever.

You know if Hitler didn't kill himself, he could potentially be the father of any voting age German.

So yeah.

[Rufus]

He may have been a charismatic orator, but Genghis Khan he was not.

[brawndolicious]

He uh...committed treason. Whether you think he was right or wrong it's pretty clear how the system of laws and justice and shit is going to have to respond to that.

[Mupepe]

He uh...committed treason. Whether you think he was right or wrong it's pretty clear how the system of laws and justice and shit is going to have to respond to that.

I gotta agree.  It would be pretty stupid of Holder and of the government not to charge him with something.  People with clearance would have no fear to leak anything else they could get their hands on.  It's all for show anyways.  No fucking way is Snowden ever setting foot somewhere that the US could grab him.  But there is a message that needs to be sent. 

[Boogie]

The letter itself comes off as pretty reasonable... if you start with the assumption that what Snowden did was a crime.

Which it is.  So...

[Steve Contra]

There's no debating that Snowden committed a crime.  He's not hiding in a Russian airport because he thinks there's a reasonable chance he would be acquitted.

[Boogie]

Ah, I see we dimensional-vortexed into GS's hypothetical fantasy world, where drug dealers aren't violent and eugenics programs are rationally and sensibly implemented.

[Phoenix Dark]

Dunno about the NC thing. The state IDs are going to be free, which makes them easier to access than some other forms of ID in many states. People have more than three years to acquire an ID. And you can still vote early for ten days, which seems like it's enough to me.

Now, if they leave the "straight ticket" option on ballots and throw out every ballot that checks it, then I'll have a big problem. But right now it seems like all this stuff is easily manageable if people want to vote, and 2016 features a good ground game - both of which will happen. Black turnout increased in 2012 largely because of these various voter restriction attempts, and I think that will continue in four years even without Obama on the ballot. It gives people the grievance ("they're trying to take our vote away") to vote. I went to the barber shop a couple times during the lead up to the election and constantly saw voter information drives focused on what republicans were trying to do.

[Boogie]

No, I do not.

Also:  you're doing it wrong.

You see, I was using some previous statements you have made on this forum as a quick, admittedly snarky way of referencing how you seem to analyze events/concepts/whatever according to an idealized idea of The Way Things Should Be, as opposed to, you know, how things actually are, in reality.

Whereas you simply bastardized an anecdote I threw out once, as what is essentially a non-sequitor as it has nothing to do with the topic at hand.

....and now you have forced me to destroy the attempted pithy-ness of my remark with overexplanation.  Damn you Shinobi!

[Mandark]

Snowden committed a crime knowingly.  I don't think your moral approval is exculpatory, but I'm not a lawyer.

And man, do you talk about anything without it being the best/worst thing ever?  C'mon.

[Mandark]

I'm pretty sure we got that.

The issue is, on what basis do they not prosecute?  The fact that you personally approve of what he did?  Going forward, are there criteria that could be applied consistently and reliably that would clear Snowden of any criminal charges in this case but not give every government employee de facto permission to leak everything they know, regardless of secrecy/confidentiality policy?

The rule of law is somewhat important and there ought to be a more solid standard for exceptions than "Well, I think what he did was right."

[Human Snorenado]

If Snowden really wanted to commit a crime and get away with it, clearly he should have shot a black teenager in Floridia.

 

[Mandark]

A presidential pardon would be the opposite of a clear, broadly applicable rule.

[brawndolicious]

Even though I think Snowden did the right thing and not for any personal gain, I would want the Justice department to make every effort to prosecute him. His only chance of not going to prison is Law & Order style jury nullification or a presidential pardon, neither of which is likely since nobody likes the idea of a highly publicized crime getting special treatment.

Long story short, ideologues need to learn Russian.

[Joe Molotov]

He brought a massive spying operation to light. He should be lauded if anything.

Best thing that I could ever hope to see in my life is a jury refusing to convict him. That would easily be the greatest jury nullification of all time.

Sure, he'll be lauded. We'll probably name a holiday after him, like Guy Fawkes Day, to be held annually on the day of Snowden's public execution.

[Mandark]

Does this kind of thing happen in other modern democracies?

[Human Snorenado]

Looks like Obama is using his UN thugs to gay-ify the world

http://talkingpointsmemo.com/news/un-launches-campaign-to-fight-anti-lgbt-violence-change-attitudes.php?ref=fpb

[Phoenix Dark]

crazy Vietnam story, wow

rip

[Joe Molotov]

So, I guess there's this:
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/jul/31/nsa-top-secret-program-online-data

XKeyscore, the documents boast, is the NSA's "widest reaching" system developing intelligence from computer networks – what the agency calls Digital Network Intelligence (DNI). One presentation claims the program covers "nearly everything a typical user does on the internet", including the content of emails, websites visited and searches, as well as their metadata.

Analysts can also use XKeyscore and other NSA systems to obtain ongoing "real-time" interception of an individual's internet activity.

Under US law, the NSA is required to obtain an individualized Fisa warrant only if the target of their surveillance is a 'US person', though no such warrant is required for intercepting the communications of Americans with foreign targets. But XKeyscore provides the technological capability, if not the legal authority, to target even US persons for extensive electronic surveillance without a warrant provided that some identifying information, such as their email or IP address, is known to the analyst.

One training slide illustrates the digital activity constantly being collected by XKeyscore and the analyst's ability to query the databases at any time.

At least America is still #1 at something.

[Phoenix Dark]

Obama Gives ‘Full-Throated Defense’ Of Larry Summers In Closed Door Meeting

President Barack Obama gave a "full-throated defense" of his possible Fed chair nominee, Larry Summers, in a closed-door meeting with House Democrats Wednesday, a lawmaker in the room told the Huffington Post.

Another lawmaker who was present in the room said the president defended Summers after Rep. Ed Perlmutter (D-CO) walked to the microphone and said "Larry Summers. Bad Choice." The lawmaker, who was paraphrasing Obama, also recalled the president saying, "Hey, don't talk sh*t about him because he's actually a pretty good guy. And then he said, 'If somebody talked sh*t about you like that, I'd defend you too," according to the Huffington Post. The lawmaker said the president did not use the expletive.

Two other Democrats in the room said the president also criticized the Huffington Post for turning Summers into what Obama called a "progressive whipping boy.”

Senate Democrats signaled Tuesday that Summers' confirmation would face unlikely odds.

http://livewire.talkingpointsmemo.com/entry/obama-gives-full-throated-defense-of-summers-in

[Olivia Wilde Homo]

Larry Summers is the quintessential example of failing upwards

[drew]

well, fuck.

http://online.wsj.com/article_email/SB10001424127887323997004578641993388259674-lMyQjAxMTAzMDAwMTEwNDEyWj.html

FBI can remotely turn on the mic in your Android phone evidently...

[Joe Molotov]

Andrex, explain.

[Boogie]

well, fuck.

http://online.wsj.com/article_email/SB10001424127887323997004578641993388259674-lMyQjAxMTAzMDAwMTEwNDEyWj.html

FBI can remotely turn on the mic in your Android phone evidently...

Under a court order.

Planning on doing anything that would subject yourself to a Title III investigation, dumbass?

[Yeti]

Getting a court order doesn't seem to be much of a hurdle to jump over these days.

[Joe Molotov]

Man, I can't wait for 2016.

[Human Snorenado]

What a bunch of commie liberal pinkos.  They don't plan on eliminating Education and HUD?  VOTE SANTORUM 2016.

[Joe Molotov]

What a bunch of commie liberal pinkos.  They don't plan on eliminating Education and HUD?  VOTE SANTORUM 2016.

Them corporate-run charter schools ain't gonna fund themselves. 

[Olivia Wilde Homo]

Oliver North

[Phoenix Dark]

Man, I can't wait for 2016.

(Image removed from quote.)

The delusion, the dedication

[Boogie]

Getting a court order doesn't seem to be much of a hurdle to jump over these days.

I know you're just being cheeky, but the techniques described fall under the same requirements as a traditional wiretap, which means the investigators must cover off both their grounds/probable cause, as well as demonstrating exhaustion.  Which is to say, it has the most demanding requirements of any judicial authorization in law enforcemet's arsenal.

[Great Rumbler]

The BBC learned over the course of its reporting that Tamerlan Tsarnaev, the older of the two bombing suspects who was killed during a confrontation with police days after the marathon bombings, possessed material asserting that 9/11 and the Oklahoma City bombing were government conspiracies. One article in his possession dealt with the "rape of our gun rights," while another suggested that "Hitler had a point."

[TakingBackSunday]

 

[Tristam]

The BBC learned over the course of its reporting that Tamerlan Tsarnaev, the older of the two bombing suspects who was killed during a confrontation with police days after the marathon bombings, possessed material asserting that 9/11 and the Oklahoma City bombing were government conspiracies. One article in his possession dealt with the "rape of our gun rights," while another suggested that "Hitler had a point."

Wasn't Tsarnaev a big fan of Alex Jones? I remember he also told a friend he couldn't relate to Americans at all -- clearly, he could have had he been living in an enlightened place like the Florida panhandle and not Cambridge, MA.

[Phoenix Dark]

"What we feared would happen, is happening," Romney said, pointing to the nation's unemployment situation and a series of overseas crises, including in Syria and Egypt.

"The administration has made things worse, not better. It is enough to make some people simply throw in the towel," he added, before offering his own advice to the conservative donors.

imagine what he'd be saying if he were president and the UE rate dropped from 7.8 in November to 7.4 in July...ie what actually happened. 

it would be insufferable. Thank god this fucker is finished.

[Great Rumbler]

It's miracle that unemployment has dropped at all, what with the concerted efforts by every Republican in DC to damage the economy while Obama is in office.

[Joe Molotov]

https://twitter.com/search?q=%23WhitePeopleBoycottingEbonyMagazine&src=hash

[brawndolicious]

I like the selling pork in a mosque comment.

[Joe Molotov]

My favorite was white conservatives buying Essence Magazine instead. Although obviously they should be reading Jet.

[Phoenix Dark]

My favorite was white conservatives buying Essence Magazine instead. Although obviously they should be reading Jet.

We have a (white) hygienist who asks patients if they'd like to read a magazine while they're waiting in the dentist chair; I've noticed if it's a black patient she automatically gets a Jet magazine  for them

[Dickie Dee]

https://twitter.com/search?q=%23WhitePeopleBoycottingEbonyMagazine&src=hash

Maria Lia Calvo ‏@MariaLiaCalvo 23h

 #WhitePeopleBoycottingEbonyMagazine is like bristol palin getting paid to give speeches about abstinence

[Joe Molotov]

[Phoenix Dark]

 

[Great Rumbler]

Awesome-O wants Obama to give Snowden the Presidential Medal of Freedom.

[Rufus]

It is a pretty childish gesture though. Didn't expect him to stoop down to Putin's level.

[Human Snorenado]

That's my Congresscritter 

[Phoenix Dark]

To be fair Russia sent a pretty clear "fuck off" message in regard to Snowden, they're throwing gay people in jail...this was inevitable. He's still going to see Putin at the G20 meeting.

Snowden broke the law to reveal very disturbing civil liberty abuses. While I agree with his actions, he did break the law, and could potentially give more information to Russia which doesn't strike me as a good thing as they devolve back to Soviet era shit.

[Brehvolution]

Awesom-o is weak on terrorism. You are either with the president or with the terrorists.

/2001

[Mandark]

It's a proportional response, no?  A symbolic snub as retaliation for an affront on a minor, but not insignificant, issue.  Likewise the Germans delaying TTIP talks for a bit to show that they weren't happy.  It's all pretty meh.  Also, the context is that they wouldn't have had much to talk about anyways.

In other news, seems there is no Tea Party boycott of Ebony Magazine, sadly.

[Great Rumbler]

Remember when Obama didn't close the embassy in Benghazi and Republicans/conservatives heralded that as a principled move that showed strength and resolve? Oh wait...

[Phoenix Dark]

Detroit's fate was sealed 55-60 years ago. Anyone discussing Detroit who doesn't acknowledge that the auto industry, highways, white flight, and redlining killed the city cannot be taken seriously.

[Great Rumbler]

And let's not kid ourselves here, stagnant wages and underemployment and other such ills are directly the result of job-creating captains of industry being given carte blanche to loot and plunder at will for the past three or more decades by Republican/conservative politicians. It's got nothing to do with welfare and food stamps.

[Human Snorenado]

So, you know how protestors have been claiming for years that the police have been infiltrating them in an effort to curb their effectiveness, or possibly have them associated with nastier public relations?  Turns out the dirty fucking hippies were right.  I AM SO SHOCKED.

http://inthesetimes.com/working/entry/15419/exclusive_activists_identify_dc_cop_who_infiltrated_bangladesh_protesters/

[Joe Molotov]

I'd infiltrate her bangladesh protest. 

[Phoenix Dark]

Obamacare delusion on display. Most people, even many republicans, support nearly every part of the law. Pre-existing condition coverage, end on life time caps, children allowed to stay on their parents health care while they find a job, free preventive care, opening up health care clinics, etc. But "because Obama" they retroactively oppose the law and want it replaced with...what? Are they going to kick kids off their parents health care, take insurance away from people with cancer, etc? Good luck with that. They lost, get over it.


We have an older patient who is a hardcore tea party type, she's always wearing anti Obama clothes. She came to the office last year in a state of distress because her son had just turned 21, needed a lot of dental work, and she was concerned he was taken off her plan. I told her he'd be fine until his 26th birthday, and she half whispered "...because of Obamacare...?" I said yes, because of Obamacare*. The mixture of anger, confusion, and relief on her face almost made me bust out laughing)

*the law doesn't force private dental insurances to comply with it, but many have decided to comply by allowing kids to stay on their parents plan until age 26

[brawndolicious]

So, you know how protestors have been claiming for years that the police have been infiltrating them in an effort to curb their effectiveness, or possibly have them associated with nastier public relations?  Turns out the dirty fucking hippies were right.  I AM SO SHOCKED.

http://inthesetimes.com/working/entry/15419/exclusive_activists_identify_dc_cop_who_infiltrated_bangladesh_protesters/

Yeah there have been examples of that for decades now. I think in the 70's they called them Red Squads.

[Phoenix Dark]

I think Romney actually alluded to a potential right-wing* healthcare policy option during the first presidential debate last fall. IIRC, Obama claimed that Romney had no idea how he would replace the ACA, and Romney said something like, "There are a lot of things you could do; you could ____." Does anyone remember what that idea was?

*Righter-wing policy option, since the ACA is already fairly right-wing policy.

let me guess

"keep your own doctor"
"buy insurance across state lines"
"insurance pools for people with pre-existing conditions"
"tort reform"

Even more ironic coming from Romney, who passed a pretty damn good healthcare law in MA that is basically Obamacare.

[Human Snorenado]

Apparently Megyn Kelly is getting Hannity's time slot, and Hannity is... well, we're not sure yet?

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/08/08/megyn-kelly-sean-hannity-drudge_n_3726620.html

[TakingBackSunday]

Shep Smith involved in this change?

Can only mean good...ish things.

[ToxicAdam]

Hannity is the worst.