Author Topic: US Politics Thread |OT| THE DARKEST TIMELINE  (Read 2771593 times)

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Raban

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Yeah I don't think any sane democrat believes Hillary will somehow be the nation's savior. It's the lesser of two evils, the way the presidential race has always been.
Ultimately, Republicans are going to go with an asshole neocon no matter what. The way I see it, now that there's not a president to re-elect this is the perfect opportunity to reel in an actual progressive and not another corporate slut with shit all for qualificiations. The fact many Dems  are already going in "I'd rather have _______ than ______ republican candidate" mode is pretty sad. If Hilary is the the nom, I'm definitely voting Green again.
exactly the kind of thing I'd expect a Shenmue fan to say. voicing your support for something completely hopeless and impractical

Phoenix Dark

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If the last few years have taught us anything it's that presidents have to also be judged by what they prevent from happening, not just what they accomplish. I don't expect the next democrat president to rein in Wall Street or pass progressive energy bills, given the gerrymandered House and corporate democrats. What I do expect and want is the ACA preserved and made better, avoidance of idiotic major military interventions, an active civil rights division of the DoJ, and sane judges. Obama has done most of that, especially with regards to his civil rights people. I want a continuation of that stuff.

At the end of the day the president is only as strong as his control of congress - not by wining and dining, but by having the most members of his party in charge. I would have liked to have seen Obama get more shit done when he had both the House and Senate, but at least he got the ACA and some other stuff. More than likely the next president won't get anything big done, outside of maybe some compromised immigration reform.

My view of the presidency is that I'd rather have my guy (or girl) in there to prevent bad shit from happening. Bad shit will inevitably happen regardless, but I'd expect Hillary to avoid the onslaught of bad shit that say...a Chris Christie presidency would bring.

TLDR: throw the romantic view of the presidency in the bushes
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benjipwns

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The Clintons are powerful because they were the only non-Congressional Dem machine to be built since McGovern. That's why people like Leon Panetta keep showing up even though he was a nobody Representative. Or Terry McAuliffe is a state Governor. Even Rahm Emanuel came to "power" though the Clinton Campaign and White House.

The Republican domination of Presidential Administrations and the LBJ implosion is what contributed to the recycling of so many Nixon/Ford/Reagan/Bush officials again and again while the Democrats had no executive bench.

Hell, the Bush political family only still exists because John Connally set giving H.W. a job as a condition on accepting Secretary of Treasury and since Nixon had a man crush on the guy he couldn't say no.

Everybody here wants Elizabeth Warren, but that ain't gonna happens so bring on 8 years of Hillary.
Collectivist!

Himu

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But surely even though Warren isn't running, does it HAVE to be Hillary? It can't be anyone else?
IYKYK

Raban

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unless you wanna vote for a wacko neo-con, no, there's no other option. welcome to the two-party, first-past-the-post system, bitches :rejoice
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Himu

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If Hillary  Clinton is the only thing the democratic party has, we - as in the country - are in trouble.
IYKYK

Mandark

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The people who want Jeb Bush to run hated W Bush.

Not true.  The establishment GOP fundraisers who all seem to like Jeb now lined up behind W so early in the 2000 cycle that McCain was the only one able to afford a campaign, and barely one at that.

benjipwns

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If Hillary  Clinton is the only thing the democratic party has, we - as in the country - are in trouble.
It's not that she's the only thing, or even the best thing (personally I recommend Grover Cleveland as the candidate) that they have it's that currently a confluence of factors indicate she has the best assets. 50+ point lead in primary polls, leads in most every head to head, massive fundraising network, the fact that everyone in the world learned from 2008 you can't hold back and try to swamp momentum with bigger states, few people where the timing lines up AND who are willing to enter a race down 50 points two years out.

The presumption for Hillary is so strong that when she's removed from polls Biden becomes a second "not sure" answer and when he's taken out the field looks worse than the Republicans. Unless or until some others start running that won't change.

A hoo-mon fee-male should run just to challenge the notion that Hillary was anointed to be the first female President when her husband won in 1992.

Himu

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How do you see you the republican party tackling a candidate Hillary? Surely they are going to go with an argument that she is bad representation for the fee male species because she didn't divorce Bill post-Monica. In fact, some are already doing it! CAN'T WAIT. I expect them to go all out. Monica will be brought up. Iraq war vote will be brought up, BENGHAZI, and even her prior campaign. They will have a lot of ammo for Clinton. Is this good/bad for her presidential aims?

Also, I find it really curious the Democratic party is going the "next in line" tactic. The last major preosdential loss they had was in 2000 when they did the same thing. Usually Dems do a "new blood" thing, whereas Republicans do a next in line (and I quote Bush) " stay the course" tactic that implies legacy. I'm just surprised that after 6 years the dems haven't established anyone new instead of taking advantage of rising apathy in American voters.
« Last Edit: May 17, 2014, 07:47:09 AM by Formerly Known As Himuro »
IYKYK

benjipwns

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The "next in line" thing is just a factor of selective history reading really.

In 1984 and 2000 the first elections they could, Democrats went with their last VP. Lieberman was a bit of a curve ball. But had Obama not run Edwards was polling as the primary threat to Hillary.

Reagan made himself "next in line" by nearly beating Ford, then Bush was his VP. Dole is where the "next in line" theory got traction, but W. Bush thwarts that. (I'd argue Colin Powell was the true "next in line" for both 1996 and 2000. Plus go on CSPAN's site and watch the early 1996 debates.  :lol  :bow Bob Dornan and Morey Taylor :bow2)

Prior to this you had VP Humphrey getting the Dem nom in 1968, and Goldwater/Nixon (Romney in part) both derailing Rockefeller front-runner bids.

The McGovern and Carter paths to the nomination are quite interesting. McGovern basically designed the primary system and even into 1980 a lot of candidates were running the "wait until the convention" campaign style but he knew he could rely, like the Paulites, on people who did know the rules becoming delegates first and upsetting the balance. Then Carter's team had projected that campaigning (he started in 1974!) and winning early, even if insignificant technically would help get the resources for the needed infrastructure that ended the late candidacies that Jerry Brown, Frank Church and some others attempted in that same campaign.

Plus, Ted Kennedy was the real front-runner in both instances and would have been in an open 1980 or 1984 I think.

I think both McCain and Romney's nominations like Dole and Kerry's had more to do with "these are the other choices?" When nobody else seriously threatened them in early states, they rolled quickly.
« Last Edit: May 17, 2014, 09:02:39 AM by benjipwns »

Phoenix Dark

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The people who want Jeb Bush to run hated W Bush.

Not true.  The establishment GOP fundraisers who all seem to like Jeb now lined up behind W so early in the 2000 cycle that McCain was the only one able to afford a campaign, and barely one at that.
Good point on fundraisers however the voting base and conservative writers who want Jeb now were largely opposed to W Bush's presidency before it ended. Personally I think Scott Walker will be the nominee since he's the only guy who isn't hated by one side or another (tea party, hawks, fiscal conservatives, etc). Just last month Jeb called illegal immigration an act of love, on the part of the Mexican parent who flees his country to feed his children here. I detect no lies in that statement however the right went insane over it for weeks. He's going to fizzle big time.

On the "next in line" argument: republicans reset the board every few elections with their "change" candidate who promises to be different. I'd argue Reagan was more of a change candidate than a next in line one; while he was indeed next I line after 1976 he had no ties to previous administrations or the general Washington GOP structure. Similar to W Bush, another governor who was able to run against Washington and promise a new, "compassionate" conservatism. Both candidates created a new "next in line" structure for their successors: McCain, Santorum, Mitch Daniels, etc. For republicans, the change candidate is almost always a governor who arrives on the scene claiming he is different from the status quo in Washington.

Romney's nomination ended that run of Bush people IMO, and the next republican who wins will usher in a new successor list.

Hillary is tied to Obama, as Gore was tied to Clinton. If she were to lose there would be quite a vacuum created for 2020. Because she'll win I'd expect the democrat bench to get stronger over her terms. The mayor of San Antonio comes to mind, and his congressman twin brother; candidates with promise but who aren't ready to make the leap to the national scale.  Outside of that the bench is rather empty. Unless you count older folks like Mark Warner and Brian Schweitzer.
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Oblivion

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Olivia Wilde Homo

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90s nostalgia.  We've reinflated the tech bubble, now we need to have another Clinton in the White House.
🍆🍆

Mandark

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PD, stahp.  You're going Cheebs on us.

Phoenix Dark

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http://www.tampabay.com/news/politics/stateroundup/jeb-bush-looking-more-seriously-like-a-2016-contender-hits-the-road/2180275

So when will Jeb stop supporting immigration reform and Common Core? A right wing heel turn is inevitable. Hell, remember when his book came out last year and he flip flopped on a pathway to citizenship, causing quite a stir until he decided to flip again?
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CajoleJuice

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AMC

Joe Molotov

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Get the meds, granpa's having an episode!
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chronovore

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Thread title change is superb.

Phoenix Dark

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You're going Cheebs on us.
What does this mean?

#NewBore

It means I'm confusing the laymen with my master's degree logic.
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benjipwns

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 :drudge GASP, KOCH EXPOSED BY NYT :drudge
http://www.nytimes.com/2014/05/18/us/politics/quixotic-80-campaign-gave-birth-to-kochs-powerful-network.html
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He backed the full legalization of abortion and the repeal of laws that criminalized drug use, prostitution and homosexuality. He attacked campaign donation limits and assailed the Republican star Ronald Reagan as a hypocrite who represented “no change whatsoever from Jimmy Carter and the Democrats.”

It was 1980, and the candidate was David H. Koch, a 40-year-old bachelor living in a rent-stabilized apartment in New York City. Mr. Koch, the vice-presidential nominee for the Libertarian Party, and his older brother Charles, one of the party’s leading funders, were mounting a long-shot assault on the fracturing American political establishment.

The Kochs had invested hundreds of thousands of dollars in the burgeoning libertarian movement. In the waning days of the 1970s, in the wake of Watergate, Vietnam and a counterculture challenging traditional social mores, they set out to test just how many Americans would embrace what was then a radical brand of politics.

...

The family’s frustrations were captured in a fund-raising letter that Charles Koch wrote on behalf of the 1976 Libertarian presidential candidate, Roger MacBride, a co-creator of the “Little House on the Prairie” television series. Mr. Koch excoriated Presidents Richard M. Nixon and Gerald R. Ford for backing price controls, and attacked legislation to impose fuel economy standards as “one of the many demonstrations of the bankruptcy of the Republican alternative to Democratic interventionism.”

...

But a Clark presidential campaign needed money and a running mate. The Kochs could provide both. If one of the brothers joined the ticket, he could — thanks to the Buckley loophole — donate as much as he wanted to the campaign, finally giving the ticket enough cash to run ads and seek a ballot spot in all 50 states. David Koch announced his candidacy in August 1979.

The post-Watergate campaign finance law “makes my blood boil,” Mr. Koch wrote in a letter to party members. He had a simple proposal: “As the Vice-presidential nominee of the Libertarian Party I will contribute several hundred thousand dollars to the Presidential campaign committee in order to ensure that our ideas and our Presidential nominee receive as much media exposure as possible.”

...

David Koch ultimately contributed about $2.1 million, more than half the campaign budget. But the costs began to wear on his siblings, Mr. Koch recounted in an interview with New York magazine. In September 1980, at a rally in Los Angeles, Mr. Crane and Charles Koch shared an elevator with Melinda Pillsbury-Foster, a libertarian activist, who overheard Charles Koch grumbling that his brother was dipping into his investments to pay for the effort.

“Charles was horrified that David had actually had to spend capital instead of just some of the interest on some of his money,” said Ms. Pillsbury-Foster, who became a critic of the brothers’ involvement in the libertarian movement.

David Koch had no expectation of winning. “If we get 3 percent of the vote we’ll consider it a moral victory,” he told students on a visit to upstate New York.

Strangely, the article doesn't cite, say, Radicals for Capitalism.

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sfdphd is a trusted commenter San Francisco 20 hours ago
I heard there is a new book coming out on the history of the whole Koch family, including the father's support for fascism during WWII and the sad personal abuse of the other brothers.

The public needs to know everything we can about these people since they are trying to take over the government. This article by Confessore sounds like just a small part of the story...
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ECWB Florida 19 hours ago
Bravo to the Times for focusing on the folks that brought us Citizens United. I hope you'll continue with stories about their current activities, the politicians they support, and the Heritage Foundation and Cato Institute, among others, that enjoy tax-exempt status.
They've been operating in the shadows for far too long.
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Gus Hallin Durango 17 hours ago
When you read the Kochs' mission statement from the 70's, it sounds like everything they set out to do has fully materialized to an almost surreal degree. Nixon, Reagan, Cheney, Bush, Norquist, Kristol, George Will etc.. were the tools, these guys have been setting the agenda all along. We have lost, people. The only question remaining is, is it time to start a new war, this time on our terms?

Thank you for this article, New York Times.
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DW Rancho Mirage 19 hours ago
It makes my blood boil every time I have to read the name of david koch on the New York State Theatre In reviews of events there. Is there no one who will give some money to get rid of this blot on Lincoln Center?
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njglea is a trusted commenter Seattle 5 hours ago
Daddy's little rich boys, spending daddy's money to further his John Birch ideals of no government, formed right after he ripped off Joseph Stalin's government to "earn" his fortune during the chaos of the Russian revolution. Daddy's little rich boys, living in New York in rent-stabilized apartments, living off the interest on the fortune we allowed them to steal by letting them drill for OUR oil. Daddy's little rich boys who think they don't have to live by any bothersome rules that might cut into their stolen-inherited wealth. Daddy's stupid little rich boys, doing all they can to destroy OUR government so they can suck up even more of OUR resources and money and use OUR taxpayer dollars to fight their oil wars and not give one penny back to support the goose that laid their golden egg. Anti-government? No. Just anti-democracy because they want it all for themselves. Time to tax it all away from them and let them live on the streets for a while. Let's see how smart they are without daddy's money.
OURS
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M.M. Austin, TX 15 hours ago
Libertarianism is anti-civilization; it seeks to destroy society by legitimizing greed and, with that, undo thousands of years of hard work to tame the reptilian traces that make human nature the awful and diagusting thing it is.

Civilization is not cheap and it's not a given. Humans are petty, greedy, unscrupulous animals willing to kill, maim, cheat and steal in their quest to accumulate material things. The only reason we're still here is because civilization has successfully tamed our nature (in some parts of the world) so we don't kill each other off.

Anyone who espouses libertarianism is an enemy of civilization and should be dealt with as such. Charles and David Koch fit the bill really well.

If I worked for the NYT, I'd make this comment a NYT Editors Pick:
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Winemaster2 GA 10 hours ago
It is no wonder that yahoo like Clarence Thomas is in the pockets for the likes of the Koch brothers and their like minded malignant narcissists, chronic scapegoating grab bagger, bigots who pander these corrupt politician to toe the line about the senile old Reagan Hog Wash that the Government is the problem and not the solution. While the two bit actor not only expanded the government auspices, tripled the federal deficit, but illegally used taxpayers money for Iran Contra affair, aiding and abetting death squads in South America, Plus using his favorite freedom fighter bind Laden and the Mujahadeen for that other US proxy war in Afghanistan, paying some over tens of billions in cash and military hardware in convoys. Then like all conservative republicans renege all promises , after the soviets withdrew and the dust settled. These Koch brothers with their private billion and no accountability as how they spend and misappropriate their ill begotten loot. Of course core industries such as manufacturing, refining and distribution of petroleum, chemicals, energy, fiber, intermediates and polymers, minerals , fertilizers, pulp and paper, chemical technology equipment, ranching, finance, commodities trading, as well as other ventures and investments with 50,000 work force in the US and some 20.000 some 59 countries has to be very very profitable business . To that end some $200 plus billion is just peanuts corrupting judges and spreading GOP propaganda .
« Last Edit: May 18, 2014, 04:08:29 PM by benjipwns »

Mandark

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I dunno why you keep defending the Kochs for free.

I mean, I understand where you're coming from but surely you could do the same thing and get a bit of scratch while you're at it.  Maximize your utility, young man.

Phoenix Dark

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Kochs...
:yeshrug

don't care. Apparently conservatives get butthurt whenever the name George Soros is uttered, and now democrats have their version.
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benjipwns

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I dunno why you keep defending the Kochs for free.

I mean, I understand where you're coming from but surely you could do the same thing and get a bit of scratch while you're at it.  Maximize your utility, young man.
I saw your comment on the NYT, I don't know why you assume I'm not getting paid considering how little effort I put into it. 

Great Rumbler

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Kochs...
:yeshrug

don't care. Apparently conservatives get butthurt whenever the name George Soros is uttered, and now democrats have their version.

Hey, I don't necessarily blame the Kochs for spending hundred of millions of dollars to legally influence election in their favor, but the Roberts Court on the other hand...
dog

Human Snorenado

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My guess is that Benji is a "I don't take this shit too seriously" sort of guy who likes to prod people to get reactions.
yar

Phoenix Dark

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Kochs...
:yeshrug

don't care. Apparently conservatives get butthurt whenever the name George Soros is uttered, and now democrats have their version.

Hey, I don't necessarily blame the Kochs for spending hundred of millions of dollars to legally influence election in their favor, but the Roberts Court on the other hand...

Agreed.

Also Kos always says when left leaning people actually vote, democrats win. We wouldn't have a lot of these "Koch problems" if Hispanics/blacks/young people/etc could mail in a damn ballot during midterms.
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benjipwns

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My guess is that Benji is a "I don't take this shit too seriously" sort of guy who likes to prod people to get reactions.
I just thought it amusing that the big Sunday NYT expose was about the only things the Kochs were famous for before like two years ago. And that it seems like part of one chapter from Radicals for Capitalism. Yet this is all IN THE SHADOWS AND OMG ALL OUR DEMOCRACIES.

Also, I love reading comment sections for hyperbolic lunacy and word salads.  :yeshrug

Mandark

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My guess is that Benji is a "I don't take this shit too seriously" sort of guy who likes to prod people to get reactions.

Or a guy who makes a big show of being flippant because of how deeply he cares.  Not that you'd particularly relate...

Mandark

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Oh, and going Cheebs means passing on Politico clickbait level analysis ("team of rivals!") as actual insight.

Like really confident statements about "next in line" and "change candidates" based on tiny data samples, a lack of historical context, and fuzzy enough definitions of your terms to make anything seem to fit.  C'mon now.

Human Snorenado

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My guess is that Benji is a "I don't take this shit too seriously" sort of guy who likes to prod people to get reactions.

Or a guy who makes a big show of being flippant because of how deeply he cares.  Not that you'd particularly relate...

 :goty2
yar

benjipwns

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I obviously care at an abstract level, out of interest, like with the NBA.

Not at an AWESOM-O level.

Phoenix Dark

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Oh, and going Cheebs means passing on Politico clickbait level analysis ("team of rivals!") as actual insight.

Like really confident statements about "next in line" and "change candidates" based on tiny data samples, a lack of historical context, and fuzzy enough definitions of your terms to make anything seem to fit.  C'mon now.

Actually he does this a lot with rap music discussions as of late.  It makes me miss the PD that just had fun bullshitting, this new 'expert' one isn't as fun :tocry

I'm going full Questlove, breh.
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Phoenix Dark

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It's why you keep losing arguments to me whenever you ask gaf-hop for a vote, breh. You need to stop whipping up these hilarious "this is how it is" observation narratives and lowkey parading them as fact. Better to rely on your time tested killer combination of humor, old trolls, and gay subliminals for maximum effect.
What? I won the last two  :lol

Go back and check the votes, it was pretty obvious.
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Phoenix Dark

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I'm counting a clear win for Favor For A Favor. Empire State of Mind...nah you got me there.

there was another vote more recent than those though right? I can't remember.
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Phoenix Dark

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I see at least 3 Soulja Girls in your squad who aren't eligible to vote. I'll keep this W.


The Rocawear thing wasn't a real beef, and let's be real: Rocawear was never "high fashion" or in the realm of what Kanye has been trying to do. It's like comparing his vision to FUBU, I'm not buying it. Every rapper and their mama had a clothes line in the 90s, would you compare any of them to Kanye's fashion obsession?
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Phoenix Dark

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Overcast and mooose are up standing hip hop heads breh. Fine gentlemen.
 :obama

I guess I'll give you Hov doing one thing before Kanye since it matters so much to you.
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Phoenix Dark

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I'm trying to kick the shit you need to learn tho
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Phoenix Dark

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I can't think of a non-stan narrative I've expressed that wasn't accurate, and I get the impression you've agreed with most of them.
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Phoenix Dark

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:yeshrug

I like to believe I'm right 90% of the time on hip hop. I trust my taste on just about everything, whether it's safe or left stuff.
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Phoenix Dark

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I rarely discuss the south because I don't care for most of it, so that's no L on my part. You're right I'm baffled by Young Thug, but with respect to left/younger stuff...where have I not been able to understand why something is big or relevant?

btw you're agreeing with me as we type, in the GAF-Hop thread, on The Roots.
 :jawalrus
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Phoenix Dark

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You agree with me on the majority of non-Nas/Jay related topics


Hell our top ten album lists look pretty similar every year breh. Admit it, the only difference is I'm more editorial and listen to less swag rap.
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Phoenix Dark

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I like some trap. I just feel that shit is tired as hell now. I appreciate some drill. It's not that I don't like that stuff, I think Lil Herb has some cool shit. It's just that I don't find myself listening to that stuff unless I'm in a "let's see what everyone is talking about" mood.

thabiz hates just about everything that is modern, and will cosign the flabbiest, corny punchline rapper as long as he's rapping over Impeach The President drums. I may have a strong east coast bias and like lyrics, but I can vibe to just about anything that "works" musically. Young Lean has songs that just...work (Kyoto). Even Chief Keef has songs that are undeniably wavy. I'm not going to listen to that shit expecting lyrical miracles.
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benjipwns

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First they take over our White House, then they take over our politics thread.

helios

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Let's get this back on track then


Joe Molotov

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mods help
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ZephyrFate

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im gonna go propose to my future husband with a cock ring

#GayMarriageOR

Joe Molotov

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Operation American Spring is ramping up.

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Brehvolution

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God sent a flood to keep tyranny alive? :lawd
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Phoenix Dark

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"We would have had more protesters but flooding prevented them from leaving their camps"
:dead

reminds me of the "x Nintendo product didn't sell well because of the recent heat wave in Japan" excuse :heh
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benjipwns

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There's also the fact that conservatives are likely to have jobs and families to take care of so they can't be bused by the dumpster load in for whatever the latest fad protest the Democrats are staging. If it wasn't for the Obama Economy there would be a lot more Great Americans out there speaking their voice and supporting the country.

Brehvolution

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http://talkingpointsmemo.com/cafe/flood-insurance-climate-change

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Surprisingly, though, Congress – where many House Republicans reject the notion that anthropogenic climate change is happening at all – came together in March to do something. Did they take action to slow climate change or pass new policies to encourage building further away from beaches and floodplains? No. They agreed to roll back previous reforms and reinstate generous federal insurance subsidies for seaside homes.

Thanks to federal subsidies, the price of flood insurance, unlike homeowners’ insurance, does not reflect the real risks involved. Flood insurance subsidies ensure artificially low insurance rates, especially for the highest-risk properties. When big storms hit, taxpayers end up bailing out private owners. It is an expensive program. Today, the National Flood Insurance Program is $24 billion in debt to the Treasury Department. If, as multiple reports predict, climate change should lead to more floods, the costs will rise.

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Why did this happen? Consider the contradictions between the quick, bipartisan agreement over flood insurance subsidies and the contentious, year-after-year battles over the Affordable Care Act. After all, the Affordable Care Act has at its heart a large federal government system of subsidies for health insurance.

House Republicans have voted some 50 times to repeal the Affordable Care Act on the grounds that the federal government should not intervene in private insurance markets. They argue that taxpayers cannot afford to pay for health insurance subsidies and that giving below-cost health insurance to poor people creates incentives to use unnecessary health care. Yet these considerations go out the window when it comes to showering federal largesse on coastal homeowners.

Almost everything the enemies of Obamacare say about health insurance is actually true about flood insurance. Below-cost flood insurance creates incentives to build in dangerous areas, encourages risky decisions, restrains the private market unnecessarily, expands the federal government, and adds to the deficit.

It's good to see the GOP acknowledge global warming albeit the least efficient way possible. I can't believe this wasn't all over the news. :shh
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benjipwns

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Someone please take Benji back to the Heritage Foundation for repairs.
You're a Great American, Esch.

Brehvolution

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Privatize the gains and socialize the losses, brehs.
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Phoenix Dark

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I'd like to see a proposal for an "immediate" stimulus and how it would work. The one that passed was staggered to maximize effectiveness, and multiple shit was addressed (state governments including police/schools/etc, infrastructure jobs, etc). Would this one include all that stuff, plus...whatever immediate relief for individuals and families. Tax credits? Just handing people refund checks?

The immediate thing that comes to mind is that if the Bush administration made it clear there would be no bailout, the market would crash. Eh...but then again it had already crashed now that I think about it.
010

Phoenix Dark

  • I got no game it's just some bitches understand my story
  • Senior Member
I could imagine that passing after the election, but with a republican House in late 2008...interesting. They barely passed TARP, would House republicans support handing money to citizens?
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Human Snorenado

  • Stay out of Malibu, Lebowski
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Letting those institutions fail would be catastrophic, unfortunately. The answer is "gradually roll back their ability to have their fucking tentacles in everything" by re-instituting some form of Glass-Steagall, getting all of these stupid new financial products under control, and THEN allow them to fail when doing so would no longer be a headshot for the economy.
yar

Phoenix Dark

  • I got no game it's just some bitches understand my story
  • Senior Member
Ultimately I agree with Triumph though, there would be too much of a shitstorm in the markets and everything else. With respect to the vote I definitely think most democrats would vote for it, just based off the stimulus vote.

The problem would be that such a bill would have to be bigger than the <800b stimulus that passed in 2009. This was back when blue dog democrats and Blanche Lincoln still existed, so there would be some dem opposition but not nearly enough to prevent it from passing.
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benjipwns

  • your bright ideas always burn me
  • Senior Member
It's not just the bailout that preserved them, everything since then has been done to create larger banks with systematic risk.

The problem is that the banks and Treasury and the Fed presented a false choice while having all the leverage. Every account from everyone I've seen regarding those meetings McCain rushed back to was Bernake and Paulson and the bankers screaming THE SKY IS FALLING WE NEED MONEY and since elected officials are morons they said HOW MUCH?!?

And they didn't stop the failure, just stretched it out and delayed it, maybe exacerbated it for later. Which is the most important thing in politics, short term gain, long term we're all dead but our named bridges and legislation stand.

It's just like with the debt ceiling silliness, nothing happens when you hit it, there's no default. If the banks couldn't survive the losses from the toxic assets they had accrued why would you ever want to not just save those institutions but BACK the toxic assets and deliberately spread them all over the economy hoping even larger institutions can somehow manage them?

Phoenix Dark

  • I got no game it's just some bitches understand my story
  • Senior Member
It's gonna be pretty funny (in a dark, depressing way) the next time they crash and we have to bail them out again while wondering what the fuck Dodd-Frank's "ending of too big to fail" was supposed to do.
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Human Snorenado

  • Stay out of Malibu, Lebowski
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The ACTUAL PROBLEM is that everything that led up to the crisis in 2008 was legal. 100% legal. It's almost like letting commercial and investment banks mingle, removing moral hazard for loans you issue, and letting Wall St. do whatever they want in regards to new financial instruments is a bad idea or some shit.
yar