US Politics Thread |OT| THE DARKEST TIMELINE

[Himu]

Am I correct assuming this is what you label "hashtag slacktivism" to be?

http://atlantablackstar.com/2015/08/11/on-the-anniversary-of-michael-browns-death-black-activists-recall-how-social-media-was-used-to-tell-the-real-story-from-ferguson-to-baltimore/

http://www.wsj.com/articles/a-year-after-ferguson-black-lives-matter-still-wields-influence-1439143426

Sure looks like a lot of hashtag slacktivism, enabling people a platform to learn facts that threaten them and mobilize to protest. All we do is sit at our computers and phones and don't do anything about it, apparently.

Lots of weird language coming from BLM opponents. "hashtag slacktivism" and "pre-packaged slogans" seems to make me think nothing they ever do would make you happy.

ahem, I'm really not interested in getting into a pissing match with you Himu when I could be shitting down JayDubya's mouth right now, but I already praised the Ferguson response (if you couldn't get that that was a catch-all term for the many wonderful response protest movements in the last year or two then we're just talking past each other)

But why the fuck are people shutting down a fringe candidate. He knows he won't win and probably just want's in on the conversation, and now that he's actually entered the conversation...

He's running on a broad social justice platform, explain why you think shutting him down is smart.

So you were fine with Black Lives Matter before the Bernie situation?

Do you realize that BLM is not an organized movement in the sense where there's a centralized speaking party? There's the hashtag, but there's also city chapters and organizations. I am part of Black Lives Matter Texas myself. The people who interrupted him a few weeks ago aren't even a part of any BLM Seattle organization, and are actually tied to anarchists, yet you seem dead pressed to throw away support for BLM the second they do anything that you disagree with as an overall movement despite no clear leader.

In many ways, your thinking is similar to JayDubya's. You have judged an entire movement based on...one, two? instances.

If all it takes for you to not support them because they interrupted a fringe candidate (who again, didn't really speak for the racial injustice at all), then perhaps you weren't really supportive of the movement to begin with?

(Image removed from quote.)

"But they were rude!"

Who gives a fuck? And them being rude means that now the entire Black Lives Matter movement, across the hashtag as well as real world protests is nothing more than - again, your words - "a flash mob"?

Tell me how Bernie is immune to critique? Who cares if he's an ally? Has he showed to any rallies lately? Did he march in Ferguson? Did he march in HIS state? Scuttlebutt says no.

I highly suggest researching protests and protest behavior before we continue this any further.

This is a solid primer and also involves the lgbt protests I mentioned yesterday.



Remember when Mandark said it's a good thing evaluate one's convictions so they don't go along with ones tribe? Now's a pretty good time for that, because everything you're telling me reeks of discarding a legitimate movement in the name of (uh oh, catchphrase time) respectability.

I'm not going to go round and round on this, so here...

"So you were fine with Black Lives Matter before the Bernie situation?"
- Yes, hope that was a misfire, and I say that not as someone who holds Saunders as some Sacred Cow but looks at the protesters and just think "WTF are you at??".

"Do you realize that BLM is not an organized movement in the sense where there's a centralized speaking party? There's the hashtag, but there's also city chapters and organizations. I am part of Black Lives Matter Texas myself. The people who interrupted him a few weeks ago aren't even a part of any BLM Seattle organization, and are actually tied to anarchists, yet you seem dead pressed to throw away support for BLM the second they do anything that you disagree with as an overall movement despite no clear leader."
- Over how many posts did you fall in line and defend Saunders as a target because he wasn't saying exactly what you wanted to hear RIGHT NOW. I do not know what to say here Himu


"But they were rude!" Who gives a fuck? And them being rude means that now the entire Black Lives Matter movement, across the hashtag as well as real world protests is nothing more than - again, your words - "a flash mob"?
- Huh? I like rude. Rude is good. It's stupid that bothers me.

"Tell me how Bernie is immune to critique? Who cares if he's an ally? Has he showed to any rallies lately? Did he march in Ferguson? Did he march in HIS state? Scuttlebutt says no."
- Immune to critique? Never. Feel his social justice rhetoric is too broad and feel you can't support him? OK. Worthy of being deemed an intractable part of the establishment that must be engaged through disruptive protest countermeasures? FUCKING RIDICULOUS

If it takes people who are mostly unaffiliated with BLM interrupting Bernie Sanders - a politician presidential candidate, whose job is to listen to the people - to abandon a movement started by people who just want to have the gift of either themselves or their family, being able to live, then there's really nothing else for me to say. We won't ever agree on this. My problem is you reducing the entire thing - again, because of one event - to "hashtag slacktivism" and "a flash mob" while throwing shade at JayDub for judging the entire movement without one shred of self awareness on your own part. Comes off as Brogressivism at its finest.



Even Bernie disagrees with you, and he's the one getting interrupted!

https://www.facebook.com/MeetThePress/videos/10153548677077871/

[helios]

I know JD's type. I don't have to read his posts to have an idea of what he's going to say. I keep baiting him for a reason, because he's predictable and dumb. I learned enough about his thought process from my Ferguson thread to know where he will deter any one conversation on this topic.

okay, well, in that case, though I am loath to grant JD points in general,

"Sandra Bland got arrested and was ultimately killed"

Sandra Bland was not "killed".   She committed suicide.   That does not make it any less of a tragedy, but that is what happened. 

And yes, you do sound more than a little loopy if you're suggesting otherwise.

Okay. I just don't buy the suicide. The bar was 5 foot tall, girl is over 6 foot if memory serves. Given there's a precedent for guards and jailers killing people that are supposed to be under their custody, I don't trust the police in this case, especially THOSE Texas police near Prairie View. as far I can throw them.

I'm currently waiting for results from a private autopsy results. You say she wasn't murdered, it was suicide, when the police in this situation have been running around changing the conversation constantly, making them look culpable. Whenever police do that, they always look suspect. Just like how they refuse right now to handover dashcam footage of the murder they pulled on poor Zachary.

Where's your convincing evidence she killed herself? Are you one of the people that says she ingested a "large amount of marijuana" as well?

I've seen this girl try to hang herself with her arm sling from a stool half a foot off of the ground. She was almost successful. I've seen this is guy successfully "hang" himself using a bed sheet tied around his neck and attached to his leg to provide counterweight.

[Himu]

Okay. I'll consider that.

Either way, I don't think it's loopy at all to be skeptical of the police in this case given their dodgy behavior.

[Kara]

Eh I can see both sides of the coin with what PD/Himu are saying. To me you have to attack this on all fronts, institutional and personal. The problem of racism, violence by cops, in America isn't just a socioeconomic one, it's a perception of inferiority to other races, especially white people, that has never really been tackled in the public sphere and laid out. Our own president had to tiptoe around the topic, his own damn race and heritage, plenty of times. That speaks to a societal problem of denial to me more than anything. It's political and controversial to broach the topic despite the only way to solve it being a massive public dialogue. It's similar to how women's issues won't ever be solved without public dialogue, not this hushed voices behind closed doors crap.

At the risk of universalizing a specific historical experience, I don't know how anyone with a passable familiarity with the history of worldwide Jewry can put much stock in what PD is arguing.

Expound plz

Because of the peculiarities of Christendom, people who were Jewish could do quite well for themselves economically and this was hardcoded into the mode of production. All that economic capability did little to counteract the fact that they had been rendered subhuman by various power structures. And I'm not just talking about backwaters like the Pale of Settlement, some of Christendom's most cosmopolitan places were just the same; that the word ghetto is Venetian in origin is not some arbitrary lexical inheritance.

[Trent Dole]

JayDubya's presence here is super weird.  Who would hang around a place where they think everyone is complicit in mass murder?  Also most people here genuinely like each other.  Like we've known each other for years and get along and I've been to people's weddings and know their kids and shit but JD's a weird poster who has dedicated a large part of his life to being a contrarian on forums where no one likes him.  Kind of sad if he wasn't a racist asshole.

He's permaed from Gaf and this is the closest substitute I guess?

[Human Snorenado]

I think he'd be happier at opa ages or whatever that place is calling itself these days.

[Madrun Badrun]

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-33798136

[Himu]

http://gawker.com/are-bernie-sanders-supporters-his-biggest-problem-1725094004

Speak of the devil.

Those protesters’ main misstep was providing a chance for these kinds of minor-level annoying arguments to galvanize against a trumped-up threat. Despite the fact that Black Lives Matter as a movement is a polylithic collective of groups, and despite the fact that there are black activists stumping just as hard for Sanders, the enemy for the Bernie Bunch has become the whole of black activism itself.

[Phoenix Dark]

I think JayDubya probably isn't arguing in faith but I'll at least humor this. I've made it clear I don't like BLM the movement however there's nothing wrong or racist about "black lives matter" the slogan. There is no need for a "too" asterisk at the end. The argument is that black lives are devalued and not cared about, so the statement is a direct confrontation of that problem. Honestly I don't see it as too different from "black is beautiful" and other older statements that were clear responses to oppression.

I understand that some white people might not know that and thus are turned off; I'm not sure it's a great slogan for a political movement. That being said, if a white person still thinks the slogan is racist after having the explanation given to them...they aren't worth wasting more time on.

So the ball is in your court, Dubya.

[Phoenix Dark]

There's no question that the group is full of emotional idiots but you could probably say the same of most grassroots movements over the last 60 years. There are also plenty of decent people in the group, which is also true of other movements over the years.

Based on the initial way the slogan was explained and used it becomes quite clear it's not racist. I criticize the movement all the time, I think many of its social media leaders are idiots (most recently see: Sandra Bland fuckery). That doesn't prevent me from acknowledging the merit of "black lives matter" as a slogan.

[Dickie Dee]

I think we need to add "Racial" and "Racist" to the pile of words JayDubya needs to learn the difference between.

[studyguy]

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/jan-mickelson-slavery_55d54b53e4b0ab468d9fd978

A conservative radio talk show host in Iowa wants to turn undocumented immigrants into "property of the state" and forced into labor.  "Put up a sign that says at the end of 60 days, if you are not here with our permission, can't prove your legal status, you become property of the state," Jan Mickelson said during his show on Monday. "And then we start to extort or exploit or indenture your labor."

When a caller said "it sounds an awful lot like slavery," Mickelson asked: "Well, what's wrong with slavery?"

"Put up a tent village, we feed and water these new assets, we give them minimal shelter, minimal nutrition, and offer them the opportunity to work for the benefit of the taxpayers of the state of Iowa," Mickelson said. "All they have to do to avoid servitude is to leave."

 
Refer to human beings as assets in 2015 brehs

[Rufus]

All filters are off, I guess.

[Joe Molotov]

Iowa Cockus

[Madrun Badrun]

I just learned about this the other day

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mexican_Repatriation

[Phoenix Dark]

When a caller said "it sounds an awful lot like slavery," Mickelson asked: "Well, what's wrong with slavery?"

[studyguy]

http://talkingpointsmemo.com/livewire/scott-leader-trump-boston-attack

Hey man, we gotta get these illegals out! Never mind the fact that homelessness isn't actually indicative of citizenship status, but he looks Mexican and poor so lets fuck this dude up! Thanks for the inspiration Trump!

[Kara]

Can I be deported instead. Preferably to the Caymans.

[Mandark]

Taxation is slavery, the federal debt is slavery, labor laws are slavery, Obamacare is slavery.

Everything is slavery!  Except slavery, which really wasn't all that bad.

.

[Van Cruncheon]

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/jan-mickelson-slavery_55d54b53e4b0ab468d9fd978

A conservative radio talk show host in Iowa wants to turn undocumented immigrants into "property of the state" and forced into labor.  "Put up a sign that says at the end of 60 days, if you are not here with our permission, can't prove your legal status, you become property of the state," Jan Mickelson said during his show on Monday. "And then we start to extort or exploit or indenture your labor."

When a caller said "it sounds an awful lot like slavery," Mickelson asked: "Well, what's wrong with slavery?"

"Put up a tent village, we feed and water these new assets, we give them minimal shelter, minimal nutrition, and offer them the opportunity to work for the benefit of the taxpayers of the state of Iowa," Mickelson said. "All they have to do to avoid servitude is to leave."

 
Refer to human beings as assets in 2015 brehs

That's Corporate Thinkin' (tm)

[Joe Molotov]

I liked that title. 

[Van Cruncheon]

solve for black lives, and you'll solve for all others that suffer less. that's the point.

[Kara]

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/jan-mickelson-slavery_55d54b53e4b0ab468d9fd978

A conservative radio talk show host in Iowa wants to turn undocumented immigrants into "property of the state" and forced into labor.  "Put up a sign that says at the end of 60 days, if you are not here with our permission, can't prove your legal status, you become property of the state," Jan Mickelson said during his show on Monday. "And then we start to extort or exploit or indenture your labor."

When a caller said "it sounds an awful lot like slavery," Mickelson asked: "Well, what's wrong with slavery?"

"Put up a tent village, we feed and water these new assets, we give them minimal shelter, minimal nutrition, and offer them the opportunity to work for the benefit of the taxpayers of the state of Iowa," Mickelson said. "All they have to do to avoid servitude is to leave."

 
Refer to human beings as assets in 2015 brehs

That's Corporate Thinkin' (tm)

In some sports accounting you capitalize your athletes under contract.

Well technically their contract, but this is not a terribly material distinction imo.

[Phoenix Dark]

Refer to human beings as assets in 2015 brehs

Gives owner's equity a whole new context.
 

[Boogie]

. Given there's a precedent for guards and jailers killing people that are supposed to be under their custody,

Not nearly the precedent there is for people attempting suicide in cells.

But there's no point in getting lost in the weeds on the topic, we're just going to talk around each other.  No need to continue the derail on this subject.

[VomKriege]

[Madrun Badrun]

http://www.politico.com/story/2015/08/gop-official-i-used-ashley-madison-for-opposition-research-121581.html?ml=po

[Joe Molotov]

Seems legit.

[brawndolicious]

Well he could have thought that 69ing was a filibuster reference.

[benjipwns]

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2015/08/21/msnbc_correspondent_speaks_over_the_star-spangled_banner_at_trump_rally_in_alabama.html

 

[Joe Molotov]

 

[Great Rumbler]

[Kara]

Thanks for reminding me that I need to find an adult ed Hebrew class, GR.

[Phoenix Dark]

[Atramental]

Is it just me or does everyone look related in that pic?

edit: And I mean the one before PD's post. 

[Joe Molotov]

The pink hat woman looks like she's reaching out to try to touch the hem of his garment so that she will cured of her issue of blood.

[Phoenix Dark]

That baby looks like it has two mortgages, outstanding student loans and a daughter dating a black man.

[Barry Egan]

http://news.yahoo.com/trump-says-tax-code-letting-hedge-funds-away-155930927--sector.html

Republican presidential front-runner Donald Trump blasted hedge fund managers on Sunday as mere "paper pushers" who he said were "getting away with murder" by not paying their fair share of taxes.

In a telephone interview on CBS's "Face the Nation," Trump vowed to reform the tax laws if elected and said the current system was harming middle class Americans who currently faced higher tax rates than traders on Wall Street.

"The hedge fund guys didn't build this country. These are guys that shift paper around and they get lucky," Trump said.

"They are energetic. They are very smart. But a lot of them - they are paper-pushers. They make a fortune. They pay no tax. It's ridiculous, ok?"

 

This election cycle is magical.

[Joe Molotov]

Thank You, Lord JESUS, FOR PRESIDENT TRUMP

[Atramental]

http://imgur.com/gallery/sTESWwu

[Great Rumbler]

Bash a 90-year-old veteran who's currently dying of brain cancer, brehs:

http://talkingpointsmemo.com/livewire/ted-cruz-chris-christie-jimmy-carter

[VomKriege]

Bash a 90-year-old veteran who's currently dying of brain cancer, brehs:

http://talkingpointsmemo.com/livewire/ted-cruz-chris-christie-jimmy-carter

The long held republican hard-on with calling Carter weak is frankly vile. And as usual weird as shit considering Carter greenlighted a risky (and failed) operation to save hostages in Iran while the following administration decided to just sell weapons to the Islamic Republic.

[Barry Egan]

[Kara]

Bash a 90-year-old veteran who's currently dying of brain cancer, brehs:

http://talkingpointsmemo.com/livewire/ted-cruz-chris-christie-jimmy-carter

The long held republican hard-on with calling Carter weak is frankly vile. And as usual weird as shit considering Carter greenlighted a risky (and failed) operation to save hostages in Iran while the following administration decided to just sell weapons to the Islamic Republic.

The stuff he had to lead through would eat the average American politician as an hors d'oeuvres, let alone a clown like Ted Cruz.

I'd say the same thing about Nixon, LBJ, or any other president I don't much care for.

[studyguy]

Nice deflection to Asians.
You know they shut out Univision from the GOP debates. Probably for the best considering they would have crashed and burned immediately with the entire demographic if the first one had aired over Spanish news networks live.

[team filler]

bloomberg and giuliani should be joining this mess soon enough.

[Great Rumbler]

I'm really coming around on the theory that Jeb really doesn't want to be President, so he's doing everything he can to tank his campaign.

[Phoenix Dark]

Guys...in what world is it acceptable to explain your use of a disrespectful term by saying "I wasn't talking about x group, I was actually talking about y group." And Jeb is supposed to be the smart one...

[Human Snorenado]

Obama has to be thinking of running for a 3rd term... he'd crush everybody on either side handily.

[Phoenix Dark]

Remember when Jennifer Rubin said this was the greatest batch of candidates to ever run for president? Yea...and they're all getting beaten by Donald Trump.


I used to think the negativity that would inevitably surround running for a third term would ensure Obama lost but now....he'd win brehs. He'd hold his coalition, plus he might just win Hispanics 80-20 at the rate republicans are turning off my brown brothers and sisters.

[ToxicAdam]

Obama is the greatest campaigner of my lifetime. There's not many (past or present) he couldn't beat.

[Joe Molotov]

Guys...in what world is it acceptable to explain your use of a disrespectful term by saying "I wasn't talking about x group, I was actually talking about y group." And Jeb is supposed to be the smart one...

[benjipwns]

http://www.publicpolicypolling.com/pdf/2015/PPP_Release_NH_82515.pdf

PPP's new New Hampshire poll finds Donald Trump in the strongest
position of any poll we've done anywhere since he entered the race. Trump laps the
Republican field with 35% to 11% for John Kasich, 10% for Carly Fiorina, 7% each for
Jeb Bush and Scott Walker, 6% for Ben Carson, 4% each for Chris Christie, Ted Cruz,
and Marco Rubio, and 3% for Rand Paul. Candidates falling outside the top ten in the
state are Rick Perry at 2%, Lindsey Graham, George Pataki, and Rick Santorum at 1%,
and Jim Gilmore, Mike Huckabee, and Bobby Jindal all at less than 1%. Everyone does
have at least one supporter on this poll.

There's been a big shift on the Democratic side since April as well. Bernie Sanders now
leads the field in the state with 42% to 35% for Hillary Clinton, 6% for Jim Webb, 4% for
Martin O'Malley, 2% for Lincoln Chafee, and 1% for Lawrence Lessig.

[benjipwns]

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2015/aug/24/irs-finds-yet-another-lois-lerner-email-account/

IRS lawyer Geoffrey J. Klimas told the court that as the agency was putting together a set of documents to turn over to Judicial Watch, it realized Ms. Lerner had used yet another email account, in addition to her official one and another personal one already known to the agency.

“In addition to emails to or from an email account denominated ‘Lois G. Lerner‘ or ‘Lois Home,’ some emails responsive to Judicial Watch’s request may have been sent to or received from a personal email account denominated ‘Toby Miles,’” Mr. Klimas told Judge Emmet G. Sullivan, who is hearing the case.

It is unclear who Toby Miles is, but Mr. Klimas said the IRS has concluded that was “a personal email account used by Lerner.”

I wonder if Toby Miles has won awards and got high marks in ethics courses like Richard Windsor.

[Joe Molotov]

Miles "Toby" Prower

[Great Rumbler]

It was probably a Yahoo account she used to sign up for Ashley Madison.

[benjipwns]

Story says MSN.

[Kara]

Story says MSN.

Does she also have a Xanga account?

[Barry Egan]

The Hispanics love me!

[Great Rumbler]

http://www.publicpolicypolling.com/pdf/2015/PPP_Release_NH_82515.pdf

PPP's new New Hampshire poll finds Donald Trump in the strongest
position of any poll we've done anywhere since he entered the race. Trump laps the
Republican field with 35% to 11% for John Kasich, 10% for Carly Fiorina, 7% each for
Jeb Bush and Scott Walker, 6% for Ben Carson, 4% each for Chris Christie, Ted Cruz,
and Marco Rubio, and 3% for Rand Paul. Candidates falling outside the top ten in the
state are Rick Perry at 2%, Lindsey Graham, George Pataki, and Rick Santorum at 1%,
and Jim Gilmore, Mike Huckabee, and Bobby Jindal all at less than 1%. Everyone does
have at least one supporter on this poll.