Author Topic: US Politics Thread |OT| THE DARKEST TIMELINE  (Read 2771477 times)

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Joe Molotov

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Re: Donald Trump Making America Great |OT| - Warm Kisses and Tight Incentives
« Reply #12060 on: October 30, 2015, 01:40:45 PM »
Which side are we fighting on, ISIS or Assad? I can't remember who the good guys are atm.
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Madrun Badrun

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Re: Donald Trump Making America Great |OT| - Warm Kisses and Tight Incentives
« Reply #12061 on: October 30, 2015, 01:42:29 PM »
The Russians.  We are fighting the Russians. 

benjipwns

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Re: Donald Trump Making America Great |OT| - Warm Kisses and Tight Incentives
« Reply #12062 on: October 30, 2015, 01:50:00 PM »
Does this mean the redline was finally crossed?

Kara

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Re: Donald Trump Making America Great |OT| - Warm Kisses and Tight Incentives
« Reply #12063 on: October 30, 2015, 03:43:28 PM »
Maybe this imperialist excursion will work this time y'all. Don't you remember Operation Urgent Fury? Just Cause?

Imperialism works better if they intended to stay and not just say 'Now you guys are free to be free.  Please have a secular democracy.  We coo?'

Miss good old fashioned imperialism.

That's colonialism nub. #rekt

Phoenix Dark

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Re: Donald Trump Making America Great |OT| - Warm Kisses and Tight Incentives
« Reply #12064 on: October 30, 2015, 03:55:23 PM »
Quote
@MSNBC
BREAKING: Top @JebBush campaign official is leaving.

 :doge
010

benjipwns

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Re: Donald Trump Making America Great |OT| - Warm Kisses and Tight Incentives
« Reply #12065 on: October 30, 2015, 03:57:13 PM »
Lawless Judges Have Created an America Where Praying Gets a Man Suspended from His Job
Quote
Yesterday, Joe Kennedy, an assistant high-school–football coach in Bremerton, Wash., was suspended. His offense? Kneeling for a short on-field prayer after football games.

According to multiple news reports, for the last several years Kennedy has waited until each game ends and the players leave the field before walking to the 50-yard line and offering a quiet prayer for his students. He never asks anyone to join him, nor does he stop anyone who wants to do so. Moved by his example, a number of players pray beside him — and at least one agnostic student takes the opportunity to enjoy an “uplifting” moment of meditation.

By the school district’s own admission, despite seven years of mid-field prayer, no student complained. Indeed, district administrators weren’t even aware of Kennedy’s routine until “an employee of another district” mentioned it to them. At that point, the district — claiming liability risk — demanded that Kennedy stop praying at mid-field, offering to provide him a “private location” instead. Kennedy declined, continued praying at mid-field, and was summarily suspended.

I agree with Kennedy’s lawyers — my friends at the Liberty Institute — that the district likely violated his right to religious liberty. But it’s doubtful the district would have taken action against Kennedy absent two extraordinarily malicious, anti-Christian legal doctrines developed by our lawless federal courts.

The first is the slow but steady perversion of the Establishment Clause — originally intended to bar the establishment of a European-style national church — into a hammer wielded against an increasing range of public religious expressions and acknowledgments, even at the expense of American history. Thus, Ten Commandments monuments must be removed from public land, despite the Decalogue’s undeniable contribution to American law and moral development. War-memorial crosses have to be pulled down despite their long-held status as a symbol of remembrance in an overwhelmingly Christian nation. And God (or judge) forbid that any high-school student actually see a teacher pray on the job.

These monuments, memorials, and prayers don’t actually “establish” a religion. They instead acknowledge the reality of a nation populated by a religious people whose religious heritage has shaped this country from its founding. But the Supreme Court has re-imagined the Establishment Clause as a catch-all provision that increasingly “protects” Americans not from actual coercion but instead from mere hurt feelings.

And that brings us to the other malicious legal development — a distortion of so-called “standing” laws that has allowed citizens to sue towns, school districts, and other public entities simply because they are “offended observers” of religious symbols or religious practices they don’t like.

...

In a world of constitutional common sense, voluntary individual prayer — even in full view of the public — isn’t an “establishment” of religion but the free exercise thereof. Yet in federal court, the Constitution often takes a back seat to anti-religious dogma, and judge-made “law” provides school districts with the pretext they need to stretch the boundaries of censorship.

Public-sector Christians, pray at your peril. The state does not approve.
:usacry :usacry :usacry :usacry

Brehvolution

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Re: Donald Trump Making America Great |OT| - Warm Kisses and Tight Incentives
« Reply #12066 on: October 30, 2015, 04:06:20 PM »
Quote
"I think the bigger frustration you saw is that all those candidates onstage had prepared for a substantive debate. Everyone was ready to talk about trade policy and the debt and tax policies," Rubio said on Fox News. "And we're ready for that, everybody was. And then, you got questions that everyone got, which were clearly designed to get us to fight against each other or get us to say something embarrassing about us and then get us to react."

Bull fucking shit. Every time something of substance was brought up you pussies started whining and dodging the question. Is it because all of your tax policies are so disastrous that bringing it up at the debate makes it sound like an attack?

Pussies can't even defend your own policies.
©ZH

Madrun Badrun

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Re: Donald Trump Making America Great |OT| - Warm Kisses and Tight Incentives
« Reply #12067 on: October 30, 2015, 04:14:30 PM »
Maybe this imperialist excursion will work this time y'all. Don't you remember Operation Urgent Fury? Just Cause?

Imperialism works better if they intended to stay and not just say 'Now you guys are free to be free.  Please have a secular democracy.  We coo?'

Miss good old fashioned imperialism.

That's colonialism nub. #rekt

Not actually bub #reverserekt

Kara

  • It was all going to be very admirable and noble and it would show us - philosophically - what it means to be human.
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Re: Donald Trump Making America Great |OT| - Warm Kisses and Tight Incentives
« Reply #12068 on: October 30, 2015, 04:16:18 PM »
What was so special about the 50 yard line? Is the field built on Golgotha or something?

benjipwns

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Re: Donald Trump Making America Great |OT| - Warm Kisses and Tight Incentives
« Reply #12069 on: October 30, 2015, 04:51:52 PM »
http://www.politico.com/story/2015/10/hillary-clinton-emails-classified-release-215359
Quote
An additional 268 emails are now deemed classified at the lowest level as part of the latest release, according to State Department spokesman John Kirby, who said that none of these emails "were marked classified at the time they were sent or received." There are now between 600 and 700 emails newly marked as classified since the releases began in May.
This campaign is so dead in the water.

Great Rumbler

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Re: Donald Trump Making America Great |OT| - Warm Kisses and Tight Incentives
« Reply #12070 on: October 30, 2015, 04:57:31 PM »
:omg
dog

Joe Molotov

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Re: Donald Trump Making America Great |OT| - Warm Kisses and Tight Incentives
« Reply #12071 on: October 30, 2015, 04:58:48 PM »
What was so special about the 50 yard line? Is the field built on Golgotha or something?

You'll have wait until God's Not Dead 3: The Return of the King to find out.
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Joe Molotov

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Re: Donald Trump Making America Great |OT| - Warm Kisses and Tight Incentives
« Reply #12072 on: October 30, 2015, 05:17:49 PM »
http://www.politico.com/story/2015/10/hillary-clinton-emails-classified-release-215359
Quote
An additional 268 emails are now deemed classified at the lowest level as part of the latest release, according to State Department spokesman John Kirby, who said that none of these emails "were marked classified at the time they were sent or received." There are now between 600 and 700 emails newly marked as classified since the releases began in May.
This campaign is so dead in the water.

I don't see how this has any effect on the campaign. It amounts to a bunch of nit-picking.

How do you feel knowing that Putin is reading these barely classified documents right this second, chuckling over the good ones (like the Stand Down order one) with his good buddies Mahmoud Abbas and Ali Khamenei?
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benjipwns

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Re: Donald Trump Making America Great |OT| - Warm Kisses and Tight Incentives
« Reply #12073 on: October 30, 2015, 05:18:49 PM »
I don't see how this has any effect on the campaign. It amounts to a bunch of nit-picking.
Stop making excuses for neoliberal shill Hillary's lies and felonies:
Quote
The day after her appearance, the State Department said it was unaware of any basis for her claim that the agency "had between 90 and 95 percent of all [her] work-related emails" even before she turned over 54,000 pages of records last December.
The only person in a prison cell the American people will vote for is Eugene Debs, and a far-right monster like Hillary isn't even close.

benjipwns

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Re: Donald Trump Making America Great |OT| - Warm Kisses and Tight Incentives
« Reply #12074 on: October 30, 2015, 05:20:50 PM »

brawndolicious

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Re: Donald Trump Making America Great |OT| - Warm Kisses and Tight Incentives
« Reply #12075 on: October 30, 2015, 05:27:15 PM »
I'm sorry but if a Muslim wouldn't get away with it, then you're probably praying in the wrong place.

benjipwns

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Kara

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Re: Donald Trump Making America Great |OT| - Warm Kisses and Tight Incentives
« Reply #12078 on: October 30, 2015, 05:44:39 PM »
Voting Debs. :preach

benjipwns

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Re: Donald Trump Making America Great |OT| - Warm Kisses and Tight Incentives
« Reply #12079 on: October 30, 2015, 06:44:26 PM »
Quote
The next year, Jeb told Lucy Morgan, a reporter for the St. Petersburg Times, about how, in childhood, he had once caught his older brother finger-painting with something other than his fingers. Morgan saw both of them at the Republican National Convention, in San Diego, and asked the brother if he had a comeback—maybe a similarly embarrassing anecdote.

“I’d better not,” the older brother said. “I’m elected, and he’s not.”


Two years later, at the Republican Governors Association meeting in New Orleans, the younger brother was a governor, too, finally, and the older brother was being talked about as the potential next president.

“Look,” said George W. Bush, “I didn’t grow up wanting to be president of the United States.”

“I did,” said Jeb Bush. The more serious one, the more focused one, the planner. The harder worker.

Two years after that, after George W. Bush had been elected president, two weeks before another inauguration, this one in Washington, Jeb Bush sat with reporters in Tallahassee. “I have never been interested in being president,” he lied.
:mynicca

benjipwns

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Re: Donald Trump Making America Great |OT| - Warm Kisses and Tight Incentives
« Reply #12080 on: October 30, 2015, 07:16:27 PM »

 :dead

Phoenix Dark

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Re: Donald Trump Making America Great |OT| - Warm Kisses and Tight Incentives
« Reply #12081 on: October 30, 2015, 07:56:11 PM »
It's like when your homie bangs a chick and you don't want her anymore. Sorry America, Jeb doesn't want W's leftovers.
010

benjipwns

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Re: Donald Trump Making America Great |OT| - Warm Kisses and Tight Incentives
« Reply #12082 on: October 30, 2015, 08:05:56 PM »
The really fascinating thing to me has been how much Jeb? is like his dad's "nice" setting and has none of his brothers powers of being smart enough to know when to play dumb/goofball. He's even worse at it than Romney.

That must be from Barbara's side. She hates politics but basically once told HW that he was being too much of a pussy in the '88 primaries.

Phoenix Dark

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Re: Donald Trump Making America Great |OT| - Warm Kisses and Tight Incentives
« Reply #12083 on: October 30, 2015, 08:11:01 PM »
from NBC's online poll (pretty sure it's scientific)

:dead
010

Sausage

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Re: Donald Trump Making America Great |OT| - Warm Kisses and Tight Incentives
« Reply #12084 on: October 30, 2015, 09:40:11 PM »
Just came across this poll



 :dead

Great Rumbler

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Re: Donald Trump Making America Great |OT| - Warm Kisses and Tight Incentives
« Reply #12085 on: October 30, 2015, 09:47:21 PM »
Only been posted three times on this page alone.
dog

benjipwns

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Re: Donald Trump Making America Great |OT| - Warm Kisses and Tight Incentives
« Reply #12086 on: October 30, 2015, 10:05:13 PM »
Look at this poll and Trump's numbers on the economy:

 :dead

benjipwns

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Re: Donald Trump Making America Great |OT| - Warm Kisses and Tight Incentives
« Reply #12087 on: October 30, 2015, 10:33:33 PM »
Quote
President Barack Obama placed a call to John Boehner on his penultimate day as Speaker, telling the Ohio Republican he was sorry to see him go.

“He said, ‘Boehner, man, I’m gonna miss you,' ” Boehner recalled in an interview broadcast Friday on Fox News.

“Yes you are Mr. President. Yes you are,” Boehner replied.
:usacry

Phoenix Dark

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Re: Donald Trump Making America Great |OT| - Warm Kisses and Tight Incentives
« Reply #12088 on: October 30, 2015, 11:04:10 PM »
Quote
President Barack Obama placed a call to John Boehner on his penultimate day as Speaker, telling the Ohio Republican he was sorry to see him go.

“He said, ‘Boehner, man, I’m gonna miss you,' ” Boehner recalled in an interview broadcast Friday on Fox News.

“Yes you are Mr. President. Yes you are,” Boehner replied.
:usacry

010

Trent Dole

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Re: Donald Trump Making America Great |OT| - Warm Kisses and Tight Incentives
« Reply #12089 on: October 30, 2015, 11:09:10 PM »
I've been calling out some Republicans on the whole "How can you vote for the LIAR Hillary?" thing. Romney gave us a wealth of lies to choose from. The McCain/Palin campaign basically told the American public that Obama's healthcare plan would involve euthanizing old people. At some point I'll probably compile a google doc of lies from major Republican politicians to trot out. I'm pretty sure it won't be difficult.

It's a little irritating how "they knew it was an al-Qaeda attack and not a video" is supposed to be the most unforgivable political lie of all time for whatever reason. I'd say calling your political opponent a radical Islamist sympathizer or saying he wants to turn old people into soylent green are both considerably worse, but that's just me.

Fuck it, any Republican politician who said that he remembered no subsidies on healthcare.gov being a planned feature of the ACA committed a far more serious deception than Obama/Hillary with the video story. That particular lie was an attempt to swing a Supreme Court case involving millions of people's health insurance.

All in all, I don't see how Republicans have high ground on the whole "Hillary LIED!!!" thing.
Lies only matter when it's somebody from the opposing party. :-[
Hi

brawndolicious

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Re: Donald Trump Making America Great |OT| - Warm Kisses and Tight Incentives
« Reply #12090 on: October 31, 2015, 01:54:33 AM »
It's like when your homie bangs a chick and you don't want her anymore. Sorry America, Jeb doesn't want W's leftovers.

Oh please with this.  :comeon

Jeb has no chance in 2016 but the best thing for him to do is to stay in this primary until it's clear that either a libertarian or a non-politician is going to win the nomination. He is the Establishment candidate and is driving people to consider someone new.

Then in 2019, when the House districts are still gerrymandered enough to leave Republicans with a majority in there, he can run saying that the massive landslide victory of Hillary in 2016 shows that while the American people want a conservative government they do not want a radical Cruz/Carson/whoever in charge. That it is time to elect a conservative who is a pragmatist.

benjipwns

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Re: Donald Trump Making America Great |OT| - Warm Kisses and Tight Incentives
« Reply #12091 on: October 31, 2015, 02:51:08 AM »
If the GOP doesn't want Jeb! (peaked at 17%, the same as Scott Walker and Rand Paul...Chris Christie peaked at 20%) now, why would they want him in 2020?

I mean, Mitt Romney was roughly as or more competitive in 2008 nationally. And led in both Iowa and NH until about December. And he still got shoved around for a while in 2012 by Rick Santorum and Newt Gingrich of all people. (As late as mid-March the national polls were Romney 35% - Santorum 29% - Gingrich 14% - Paul 11%; on Feb 28th Santorum led Romney 33-31.)

The failure of Romney, Rudy and (compared to the current field) Fred Thompson (and ultimately Johm McCain) didn't lead to more moderate candidates in 2012. Nor did the failure of Jon Huntsman, Tim Pawlenty and ultimately Romney (arguably all to the right of Rudy and pre-epic pandering mode Johm McCain) in 2012 lead to a more moderate field in 2016.

And the "establishment" is getting more fractured and more gunned down or dying off. Taking the RCP average you could argue that the "Tea Party wing" has two-thirds (combined polling of 68%) of the candidates (Trump, Carson, Cruz, Fiorina, Huckabee, Paul, Jindal, Santorum), and both Kasich and Rubio (combined 12%) rode the 2010 wave into office. The "establishment/moderates" has at best 18% in the polls right now (Rubio-Jeb?-Christie-Graham-Pataki) and moving Carly, Kasich and/or Santorum into that group doesn't get them much past 25%.

One could argue the "establishment" peaked in either September 2013 (Christie-Rubio-Jeb! at 42% vs. Paul-Cruz-Walker-Santorum-Jindal at 33%) or September 2014 (Christie-Jeb!-Rubio at 31% vs. Huckabee-Paul-Cruz-Walker-Santorum-Jindal at 40% with Kasich at 2%. If you slid Huckabee and Kasich over to the "establishment/moderate" side it's 43% vs 29%. Santorum is at 3%.)

I'd expect an even less moderate field, especially if Hillary wins and is polling strong in 2019. Candidates aren't going to want to enter a likely losing race. Outside the bin Laden bump, Obama had a negative job approval from basically July 2010 to January 2012. And the Republicans still didn't churn out a field of big time candidates. Michelle Bachmann, Herman Cain, Gary Johnson, Rick Santorum, Thaddeus McCotter,  Buddy Romer, and Jon Huntsman was the field with Romney and Gingrich before Perry finally entered in August 2011. Haley Barbour almost got in, and Trump played hard to get. But Christie, Jeb!, Daniels, Huckabee, Palin, Petraeus, Scott Brown, etc. all passed and pretty quickly. Even a guy like Pataki did.

benjipwns

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Re: :-(
« Reply #12092 on: October 31, 2015, 03:28:36 AM »

Response to this (via lednerg on GAF): http://www.scribd.com/doc/283322806/Hillary-Clinton-Circumcision-Email



more emoji/blackberry troubles: https://foia.state.gov/searchapp/DOCUMENTS/HRCEmail_OctWeb/247/DOC_0C05793150/C05793150.pdf

This whole thing has been worth it for people actually reading these e-mails and finding the goofy ones.

Hillary's campaign should "push" some of these, put quotes on their merchandise, etc. Like that pant suit shirt. It makes her more likable than "likable enough" and Chill with Hill.
« Last Edit: October 31, 2015, 03:42:27 AM by benjipwns »

benjipwns

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Re: Donald Trump Making America Great |OT| - Warm Kisses and Tight Incentives
« Reply #12093 on: October 31, 2015, 04:37:36 AM »
patented benjipwns triple post:
Could America Elect a Mentally Ill President?
Yes. In fact, we probably already did.

Quote
Yet one large taboo remains stubbornly fixed—mental illness. Sure, it’s part of the conversation, in that pundits these days can, and do, speculate casually about whether Donald Trump has narcissistic personality disorder, Joe Biden has slid into depression, Hillary Clinton is clinically paranoid or Jeb Bush will be undone by a Freudian sibling tangle. But here’s the really sick thing: For a politician to admit to seeing a psychiatrist would likely be far more politically damaging than any of the possible symptoms of actual mental illness.

For a president or a candidate, it’s the “kiss of death,” says Burton Lee, George H.W. Bush’s presidential physician. It would “create a crisis of confidence” in the country, says David Axelrod, former senior adviser to President Barack Obama. “I’d like to believe I’m wrong,” he adds, but a commander in chief who disclosed a mental illness would face an almost insurmountable political problem: “Every time he said a cross word or expressed frustration, people would say, ‘He’s having one of those days.’” Instead, Axelrod wryly notes, “We just watch their hair turn gray.”

More than 40 years have passed since Thomas Eagleton, the 1972 Democratic vice presidential candidate, withdrew from the race after revealing that he had been hospitalized for depression. Since that political firestorm, the issue has remained firmly off-limits: No Democratic or Republican nominee running for president or vice president has disclosed mental illness or treatment for it ever since—to do so would be politically incurable. And as recently as the last election cycle, congressional and state-level campaigns were digging up past psychiatric treatment to bludgeon their opponents.

“Any vulnerability can be exploited by people and will be,” explains Newt Gingrich, the former speaker of the House and presidential candidate, whose late mother had bipolar disorder. “That’s just the nature of a very rough-and-tumble-type business.”

As a result, the notion of politicians merely consulting with a mental health professional remains the topic of only hushed conversations or forceful denials. When President Bill Clinton admitted to infidelity and impeachment loomed, talking to a psychiatrist remained a political nonstarter. Aides told reporters that Clinton was seeking the counsel of Christian ministers but was “not under any medical treatment for any psychiatric or mental condition.” Even two decades later, “crazy” remains a politically acceptable epithet, whether it’s Obama taunting Republican opponents or Representative Trey Gowdy quipping that he did not want to wrangle members of the House in a leadership position because he did not “have a background in mental health.”

...

Nixon and John F. Kennedy clandestinely filled their medicine cabinets with psychotropic drugs, recently uncovered documents reveal. In fact, Kennedy aide and historian Arthur Schlesinger Jr. suggested in his journals that several modern presidents were mentally unbalanced; he recorded top aides arguing whether President Lyndon Johnson was clinically paranoid or a manic-depressive, and fretted that there was no constitutional “procedure for dealing with nuts.”

In other words, mental illness is surely more common in Washington than the public knows or wants to believe. In 2006, after an embarrassing car accident, Representative Patrick Kennedy, JFK’s nephew, became a rare politician to announce he would seek treatment for his addiction and bipolar disorder. Soon, Kennedy says, several congressional colleagues privately revealed their own illnesses to him—but would not make them public. After interviewing more than three dozen people for this article, I found only one current member of Congress who has been open while in office about struggling with mental health: freshman Arizona Representative Ruben Gallego, an Iraq War veteran who suffers from post-traumatic stress disorder.

When it comes to their mental health, however, politicians, including the one with the nuclear launch codes, are “just like everybody else,” Lee says. Some diagnoses are dangerous, but others are manageable with treatment. For instance, he says, “A president can function very well if he has a mild anxiety disorder or obsessive compulsive [disorder].”

Which raises the question: When roughly a fifth of American adults use medication and millions go to talk therapy for their mental health, why shouldn’t the people governing the country be able to as well?

Kara

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Re: Donald Trump Making America Great |OT| - Warm Kisses and Tight Incentives
« Reply #12094 on: October 31, 2015, 05:34:30 AM »
Sounds like more D.C. shrinks should become dual threat quarterbacks and get ordained to talk on behalf of imaginary friends.

Phoenix Dark

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Re: Donald Trump Making America Great |OT| - Warm Kisses and Tight Incentives
« Reply #12095 on: October 31, 2015, 08:32:16 AM »
Republicans will do what they've been doing for years. If Hillary wins we'll get 6 months of hand wringing and calls for a more inclusive party. We'll suddenly see more white female republicans on talk shows - hell, maybe Fiorina will become chairwoman of the RNC. But ultimately nothing will change, the rhetoric will start getting ugly after a year, and republicans will ride a wave of anger and white districts to 2018 midterm victories.

Tea party types will see this as validation for more extremism, moderates will preach restraint. Regardless the party will be operating from the far right, stoking white resentment and investigating Hillary nonstop.

Basically republicans are like a sports team with a rapidly shrinking window for success. Instead of rebuilding they keep doubling down on their old roster, hoping they can squeeze one more championship run out of it. Demographics continue to look terrible for republicans yet they continue to shit on minorities. Party wise they control the senate, house, and most state legislatures in the country. All they need is a presidential win to make some sweeping legislative and judicial changes that'll transform the nation in many ways (destroy or bleed Obamacare, 2-4 Supreme Court justices, massive tax cuts, perhaps some religious freedom laws on national level, deregulation, ground troops in Iraq or Syria, etc).

Basically they're putting all their chips on a short term victory and endangering long term viability. 2020 is a Census year and general election. That increased turnout is gonna ensure gerrymandering is more favorable for democrats than 2010 was. Lots of brown districts are gonna be drawn, and suddenly that window is gonna be closed.

010

brawndolicious

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Re: Donald Trump Making America Great |OT| - Warm Kisses and Tight Incentives
« Reply #12096 on: October 31, 2015, 11:14:15 AM »
If the GOP doesn't want Jeb! (peaked at 17%, the same as Scott Walker and Rand Paul...Chris Christie peaked at 20%) now, why would they want him in 2020?
I mean, Mitt Romney was roughly as or more competitive in 2008 nationally. And led in both Iowa and NH until about December. And he still got shoved around for a while in 2012 by Rick Santorum and Newt Gingrich of all people. (As late as mid-March the national polls were Romney 35% - Santorum 29% - Gingrich 14% - Paul 11%; on Feb 28th Santorum led Romney 33-31.)
The failure of Ronney, Rudy and (compared to the current field) Fred Thompson (and ultimately Johm McCain) didn't lead to more moderate candidates in 2012. Nor did the failure of Jon Huntsman, Tim Pawlenty and ultimately Romney (arguably all to the right of Rudy and pre-epic pandering mode Johm McCain) in 2012 lead to a more moderate field in 2016.
And the "establishment" is getting more fractured and more gunned down or dying off. Taking the RCP average you could argue that the "Tea Party wing" has two-thirds (combined polling of 68%) of the candidates (Trump, Carson, Cruz, Fiorina, Huckabee, Paul, Jindal, Santorum), and both Kasich and Rubio (combined 12%) rode the 2010 wave into office. The "establishment/moderates" has at best 18% in the polls right now (Rubio-Jeb?-Christie-Graham-Pataki) and moving Carly, Kasich and/or Santorum into that group doesn't get them much past 25%.
One could argue the "establishment" peaked in either September 2013 (Christie-Rubio-Jeb! at 42% vs. Paul-Cruz-Walker-Santorum-Jindal at 33%) or September 2014 (Christie-Jeb!-Rubio at 31% vs. Huckabee-Paul-Cruz-Walker-Santorum-Jindal at 40% with Kasich at 2%. If you slid Huckabee and Kasich over to the "establishment/moderate" side it's 43% vs 29%. Santorum is at 3%.)
I'd expect an even less moderate field, especially if Hillary wins and is polling strong in 2019. Candidates aren't going to want to enter a likely losing race. Outside the bin Laden bump, Obama had a negative job approval from basically July 2010 to January 2012. And the Republicans still didn't churn out a field of big time candidates. Michelle Bachmann, Herman Cain, Gary Johnson, Rick Santorum, Thaddeus McCotter,  Buddy Romer, and Jon Huntsman was the field with Romney and Gingrich before Perry finally entered in August 2011. Haley Barbour almost got in, and Trump played hard to get. But Christie, Jeb!, Daniels, Huckabee, Palin, Petraeus, Scott Brown, etc. all passed and pretty quickly. Even a guy like Pataki did.

Romney and McCain were establishment candidates who tried to zig zag between right and left during the primary and general. No one would have thought they were true to their principles and it's pretty hard to win independents who aren't sure exactly what your policy goals are. If somebody like Cruz or Trump gets nominated, the amount they lose by in 2016 will make lifelong Republicans traumatized enough to consider that only a moderate candidate could win the general election.

I'm not a mind-reader but I don't think anyone is really a die-hard-never-going-to-change-again Tea Partier. I think 95% of Republicans are just afraid of people who are gay/brown, gun control, and taxes. There's not much point going after healthcare/immigration/gay marriage but ensuring gun rights and lowering taxes could be a popular platform. I don't hear anyone else coming up with a better plan.

Phoenix Dark

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Re: Donald Trump Making America Great |OT| - Warm Kisses and Tight Incentives
« Reply #12097 on: October 31, 2015, 01:40:11 PM »
I disagree. True believers nominated Goldwater in 1964 which was a disaster. Yet they had no problem bucking the establishment and picking Reagan in 1976 for instance. True believers rarely see the light, they simply come up with excuses for failure.

If Cruz received the nom and got crushed by Hillary while running a far right campaign...the right would argue it was inevitable due to the liberal media. Or that illegal immigrants gave her the victory by inflating electoral college delegates. Or even that Ted Cruz simply wasn't conservative enough.

The establishment would see the loss for the disaster it was, but at this point can we have confidence they can retake the party from these extremists?
010

Shadow Mod

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Re: Donald Trump Making America Great |OT| - Warm Kisses and Tight Incentives
« Reply #12098 on: October 31, 2015, 03:46:22 PM »
Biggest irony is the repubs might have seen the greatest long term success if the SC had ruled different on Citizens United.

brawndolicious

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Re: Donald Trump Making America Great |OT| - Warm Kisses and Tight Incentives
« Reply #12099 on: October 31, 2015, 03:55:17 PM »
It's certainly not guaranteed that they'll become logical about it but I'm saying that's the best thing for Jeb to do even when he knows he's just burning money at this point. Stay in the race pushing the radical fringe to be more radical and when whatever true believer wins the nomination but gets crushed in the general election, then you have a platform for suggesting a "new" type of conservative party THAT CAN WIN!!!

It's not an easy way for him to win but it's the smartest play available.

Dickie Dee

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Re: Donald Trump Making America Great |OT| - Warm Kisses and Tight Incentives
« Reply #12100 on: October 31, 2015, 05:10:20 PM »
John Oliver, comedian and host of HBO's "Last Week Tonight" on Friday said that he's not at all interested in having Donald Trump on his show.

"I don’t really care about him in any capacity," he said on CBS' "This Morning." "I don’t really have anything to say to him."

Oliver explained that an interview with Trump would not yield anything new about the real estate mogul and Republican presidential candidate.

"He’s said everything he wants to say. He has no internal monologue, that man. So it’s not like you’re going to find the secret nugget he’s been holding back. He’s an open book And that book doesn’t have that many interesting words in it," Oliver said.

 :heh
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Phoenix Dark

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Barry Egan

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Joe Molotov

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Re: Donald Trump Making America Great |OT| - Warm Kisses and Tight Incentives
« Reply #12103 on: November 01, 2015, 10:22:29 PM »
I'm not watching if there's no props.
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Madrun Badrun

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Re: Donald Trump Making America Great |OT| - Warm Kisses and Tight Incentives
« Reply #12104 on: November 01, 2015, 10:27:17 PM »
Does trumps hair count as a prop?

Phoenix Dark

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Re: Donald Trump Making America Great |OT| - Warm Kisses and Tight Incentives
« Reply #12105 on: November 01, 2015, 10:36:32 PM »
Honestly on one hand it's pretty pathetic but on the other hand can you blame them? Republicans have already turned running for president into little more than a PR exercise+audition for a six figure Fox gig, now they're simply adding debates into the scam.  These things are getting great ratings, demand is high...why not take advantage of that leverage.

I thought the CNBC debate was trash but the claims of liberal bias are laughable. They had Santelli asking questions for christs sake. These dudes sound like utter babies.

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HyperZoneWasAwesome

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Re: Donald Trump Making America Great |OT| - Warm Kisses and Tight Incentives
« Reply #12106 on: November 02, 2015, 04:48:49 AM »
its weird isn't it, that all those guys organized and negotiated better terms for themselves, after threatening to strike if their terms weren't met.

I mean, is this a new invention? This sort of tactic? Repubs just invented it, right? Cause it sounds kinds like they formed a union, but that can't be because they're all staunchly opposed to that sort of thing, so it must be something else.

Kara

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Re: Donald Trump Making America Great |OT| - Warm Kisses and Tight Incentives
« Reply #12107 on: November 02, 2015, 08:39:53 AM »
Nope. Judging typeface is very important.

Brehvolution

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Re: Donald Trump Making America Great |OT| - Warm Kisses and Tight Incentives
« Reply #12108 on: November 02, 2015, 10:37:49 AM »
Maybe they should  be more like their favorite leader Putin and man up.
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Trent Dole

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Hi

studyguy

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Re: Donald Trump Making America Great |OT| - Warm Kisses and Tight Incentives
« Reply #12110 on: November 02, 2015, 12:03:34 PM »


Jeb's new PR guy on point with that banner.


I think I got it this time, Jeb!
pause

Kara

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Re: Donald Trump Making America Great |OT| - Warm Kisses and Tight Incentives
« Reply #12111 on: November 02, 2015, 01:05:03 PM »
Bush’s new 730-page e-book, “Reply All,” compiles his email exchanges with constituents during his tenure as Florida’s governor.

Who on Earth would read such a thing. (Besides benji-kun.)

Phoenix Dark

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Re: Donald Trump Making America Great |OT| - Warm Kisses and Tight Incentives
« Reply #12112 on: November 02, 2015, 01:47:20 PM »
010

Shadow Mod

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Re: Donald Trump Making America Great |OT| - Warm Kisses and Tight Incentives
« Reply #12113 on: November 02, 2015, 01:50:30 PM »
For me it's like even if they went out and did some heinous shit we're the ones who made them hardened criminals by throwing their ass in the pen for nothing. I'd still consider it society's fault.

 :yeshrug

Great Rumbler

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Re: Donald Trump Making America Great |OT| - Warm Kisses and Tight Incentives
« Reply #12114 on: November 02, 2015, 01:55:33 PM »
Politico pushing Willie Horton hard in that article. :beli
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Joe Molotov

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Re: Donald Trump Making America Great |OT| - Warm Kisses and Tight Incentives
« Reply #12115 on: November 02, 2015, 01:56:24 PM »
Bush’s new 730-page e-book, “Reply All,” compiles his email exchanges with constituents during his tenure as Florida’s governor.

Who on Earth would read such a thing. (Besides benji-kun.)

Who does he think he is, Hillary Rodham Clinton? I bet Sidney Blumenthal never sent him so much as a funny cat pic.
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Madrun Badrun

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Re: Donald Trump Making America Great |OT| - Warm Kisses and Tight Incentives
« Reply #12116 on: November 02, 2015, 02:02:45 PM »
Bet it makes the NYTs best seller list. 

Re: Donald Trump Making America Great |OT| - Warm Kisses and Tight Incentives
« Reply #12117 on: November 03, 2015, 11:13:48 AM »

Kara

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Yeti

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Re: Donald Trump Making America Great |OT| - Warm Kisses and Tight Incentives
« Reply #12119 on: November 03, 2015, 04:12:40 PM »
It's strenuous work having to constantly clutch at your pearls all the time
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