Author Topic: US Politics Thread |OT| THE DARKEST TIMELINE  (Read 2771698 times)

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"The actual left" is such a smarmy way of putting it.

Phoenix Dark

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It's the political equivalent of "real hip hop."
010

Mods Help

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And I'm sure someone could find a 2008 "Hillary has done more for black people than Obama" think piece. But overall I think it's very hard to deny Sanders fans are far more confrontational and dismissive of black views than Hillary fans were in 2008.

Today isn't 2008 though, and we're mostly getting this from the internet, which is far more connected than 2008. These days everyone has a twitter and facebook. In 2008, it wasn't nearly this big and connected, and the iphone was only out for an incredibly short amount of time before then. Also, your position is debatable. Hilary supporters were definitely confrontational and openly dismissive because "a woman president is a bigger reality than a black president, a black president is too far away!" Don't tell me that wasn't a thing because even black people I know said the same shit, that Obama was impossible to win the nom because of his race. Remember the Tavis Smiley debacle? http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/01/06/tavis-smiley-ends-black-state-of-the-union_n_412825.html It was much worse from the white ones. I definitely remember white Hilary supporters whiteplaining away why it was so impossible and to vote for Hilary. About as much as I see it from Bernie supporters.

Quote
I actually agree with Sanders' view that an improved economic situation would greatly benefit black people. A lot of inner cities are in disrepair in large part due to deflated tax bases. Liberals can inject cash into inner city schools every four years all they want but the problems persist when tax funding is low and people don't have jobs. The problem is that Sanders hasn't really made this argument to black audiences effectively, and often outright ignores local issues that can help his point. He wants to talk about Flint, MI by hitting Wall Street. It doesn't make any sense.

But as I've said, Sanders has no connection to the community. He made no attempt to make one. And no, I'm not talking about his BLM confrontation; I still have no problem with how he handled it, and you know my views won BLM. I'm talking about having a visible presence in the community, be it through meeting with activists, attending black events, etc etc. All the things Hillary has attended for decades, mind you. Remember, both Obama and John Edwards made these overtures as early as 2006-2007 in preparation for the 2008 election. Because they understood  you can't win the nomination without the black vote. Sanders did none of that and instead showed up in late 2015 talking about MLK. It's not surprising why it didn't work.

I can agree with all of this. I guess we're saying the same thing effecitvely. I think 100% that Sanders policies will help us, but he's not communicating it well behind that wall street rhetoric. Again, it's completely aimed at white middle class people. So we agree in full on that.

I also agree with him not being seen in the community. When the BLM thing happened, a common argument was "he protested in the 60's!" as if that means anything. For me, it still doesn't.

I'm going to say that his way of communicating his vision for America is flawed, although I think it's what we need. Shame, too. My only hope is that he can manage to get Hilary on board with some of his easier to implement ideas that can help Hilary on the campaign trail.
« Last Edit: March 03, 2016, 05:02:07 PM by Mods Help »

Mods Help

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"The actual left" is such a smarmy way of putting it.

It's hard to describe it any other way given America's idea of left tends to be a blanket term. It's a necessity due to our willingness to put everyone under the same roof. For example, you're considered left in America if you simply vote Democrat even if your views are more moderate. In America "left" is considered so many things that aren't actually left that it obfuscates the definition of the word. My use of "actual left" isn't a dig - it's a clarification of what I'm talking about when discussing what Brob and I were chit chatting about.

brob

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far left smarm  :aah


Human Snorenado

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I still maintain that there was waaaaaaaay more acrimony between Hillary and Obama supporters in 2008. For fucks sakes, does no one else remember hillaryis44? The "PUMA" movement? Bill Clinton calling Obama a fairytale? Black politicians (including John Lewis) that had endorsed Clinton switching to Obama for fear of being primaried? I remember all that shit. What we have today are just a bunch of useless neckbeards that weren't gonna vote anyway whining. And I say that as someone that voted for Bernie two days ago.
yar

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Yeah, dismissing 2008 Hilary supporters is pretty bad. Like I said, it's just a larger symptom of "progressive" white people, especially in the democratic party. Like my dad told me, white people are your friend until they need to compete with you.  :doge The only reason it may seem worse is because the internet volume has been cranked up 10 times since 2008. But in no way was actually worse than the actual content of 2008. That's why Bernie supporters don't bother me so much. Business as usual as a black voter.

I think a lot of black Hilary supporters bringing this up didn't notice this because they many were originally siding with Hilary, so they weren't as privy to these racial remarks aimed at Obama from her supporters because he wasn't their guy yet. As someone who supported Obama from the beginning I remember all this shit.
« Last Edit: March 03, 2016, 05:26:28 PM by Mods Help »

Phoenix Dark

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I still maintain that there was waaaaaaaay more acrimony between Hillary and Obama supporters in 2008. For fucks sakes, does no one else remember hillaryis44? The "PUMA" movement? Bill Clinton calling Obama a fairytale? Black politicians (including John Lewis) that had endorsed Clinton switching to Obama for fear of being primaried? I remember all that shit. What we have today are just a bunch of useless neckbeards that weren't gonna vote anyway whining. And I say that as someone that voted for Bernie two days ago.

No question you're right. I'm just talking about the racial aspect of Sanders/Clinton.
010

Mods Help

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I still maintain that there was waaaaaaaay more acrimony between Hillary and Obama supporters in 2008. For fucks sakes, does no one else remember hillaryis44? The "PUMA" movement? Bill Clinton calling Obama a fairytale? Black politicians (including John Lewis) that had endorsed Clinton switching to Obama for fear of being primaried? I remember all that shit. What we have today are just a bunch of useless neckbeards that weren't gonna vote anyway whining. And I say that as someone that voted for Bernie two days ago.

No question you're right. I'm just talking about the racial aspect of Sanders/Clinton.

But you did say that Sanders supporters are generally racist and problematic.

But that's the thing, they're nothing compared Hilary's supporters in 08 against Obama. Who are black voters going for this time? Remember that we have memories of elephants, so I definitely know many other black voters remember how we and Obama were treated then. I just think that Bernie's white supporters aren't why he's not garnering as much minority support. Because by that same argument, Hilary should be bets off as well given her supporters' history.


Phoenix Dark

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I clearly stated I wasn't talking about all Sanders supporters:

"Multiple outlets have reported on Bernie fans and their problems, I don't need to re-litigate those arguments. And no, this does now mean ALL Bernie fans are like this."

I didn't use the term racist either. I'm talking about the insistence of so many Bernie Bros that black people MUST vote for Sanders because it's the best thing for them.
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Trent Dole

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http://www.huffingtonpost.com/h-a-goodman/obamas-justice-department-gave-bernie-sanders-presidency_b_9372012.html

 :dunno
Even Sanders himself declared nobody gives two fucks about Hillary's emails but if this nudges an actual progressive into the Dem nomination instead of Clinton's fauxgressive ass then hey that's great. No matter who gets in ain't shit changing so long as Congress is gerrymandered to hell and back.
Hi

CatsCatsCats

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Yeah unless charges are filed that isn't going to amount to anything, even if there are, I don't see it taking her down.

TakingBackSunday

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Romney might be trying to lock the convention and step in as the nominee.  Too fucking funny
püp

Dennis

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I don't get what Romney is trying to do.

Nothing will kill the GOP faster than denying the winner of the popular vote his chance at the presidency.

Dennis

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Looking forward to tonights debate. Thank God Carson is not here to dampen the fun.

Romney might be trying to lock the convention and step in as the nominee.  Too fucking funny

It's Baker in the West Wing democratic convention all over again.

 :rejoice

Human Snorenado

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That schadenfreude, brehs

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/03/03/us/politics/anti-donald-trump-republicans-call-for-a-third-party-option.html?smid=tw-nytimes&smtyp=cur

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William Kristol, editor of the conservative Weekly Standard magazine, said he would work actively to put forward an “independent Republican” ticket if Mr. Trump was the nominee, and floated Mr. Sasse as a recruit.

“That ticket would simply be a one-time, emergency adjustment to the unfortunate circumstance (if it happens) of a Trump nomination,” Mr. Kristol wrote in an email. It “would support other Republicans running for Congress and other offices, and would allow voters to correct the temporary mistake (if they make it) of nominating Trump.”

 :aah
yar

Phoenix Dark

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Quote
Mitt Romney has instructed his closest advisers to explore the possibility of stopping Donald Trump at the Republican National Convention, a source close to Romney's inner circle says.

The 2012 GOP nominee's advisers are examining what a fight at the convention might look like and what rules might need revising.

"It sounds like the plan is to lock the convention," said the source.

Romney is focused on suppressing Trump's delegate count to prevent him from accumulating the 1,237 delegates he needs to secure the nomination.

But implicit in Romney's request to his team to explore the possibility of a convention fight is his willingness to step in and carry the party's banner into the fall general election as the Republican nominee. Another name these sources mentioned was House Speaker Paul Ryan, Romney's running mate in 2012
.
http://www.cnn.com/2016/03/03/politics/mitt-romney-stop-trump-at-convention/index.html

We are living history brehs


538 says Trump is already on pace to get the delegates he needs to outright win the nomination. He'll be even more on target if he wins Florida and Ohio in a couple weeks, which are winner-take-all contests.
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Yo this fuckery is nuts

Joe Molotov

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Will Romney come from backstage and hit Trump with a folding chair during tonight's debate while Cruz distracts the moderators?
©@©™

Trurl

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I clearly stated I wasn't talking about all Sanders supporters:

"Multiple outlets have reported on Bernie fans and their problems, I don't need to re-litigate those arguments. And no, this does now mean ALL Bernie fans are like this."

I didn't use the term racist either. I'm talking about the insistence of so many Bernie Bros that black people MUST vote for Sanders because it's the best thing for them.
Immediately after the 2008 election I remember some liberals being disgusted that a certain number of gay people voted for McCain.   Expecting demographics to vote a certain way is usually obnoxious.

That said, I'm OK with liberals asking what's the matter with Kansas and I'm not sure what the difference is.

Edit: I suppose that no matter how much you like Bernie, you can't argue that voting Hillary is diametrically AGAINST the interest of black people.  That's a difference.
« Last Edit: March 03, 2016, 08:38:28 PM by Trurl »

Great Rumbler

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The collapse of the GOP has been such a slow-motion trainwreck. You could probably easily trace it back to Dubya screwing things up so badly for the party nationally and then the Palinization starting in 2008 where the far-right wing started to roust itself at the sight of a black man taking the oath of office. I mean, I think even back then we all probably had some idea that the the GOP was setting itself on a course for complete implosion, despite the efforts of the establishment to mold and direct the anger that's emblematic of the Tea Party movement, but to actually see it happen, especially because of someone as ridiculous and cartoonish as Donald J. Trump, is something that no one could ever have predicted.
dog

Phoenix Dark

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omg Trump  :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol

this debate :dead
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Dennis

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Big Dick Trump.

Look at those hands.

Mods Help

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What did he say?

Joe Molotov

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omg, crying :lol
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HyperZoneWasAwesome

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I'd even wager that a lot of trump voters would never vote for the gop again if this happens.
yeah right, how else are they ever gonna put their regressive views into a ballot box. The GOP has always been a horror movie villian (essentially unkillable), this year's feature just happened to be Freddy vs. Jason.

Dennis

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Rubio is getting slaughtered out there. Just brutal.

Dennis

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Quote
Guys, can we go back. The GOP frontrunner just said he has a big dong.

A frontrunner for President of the United States just said he has a big wang.

Reality is far worse than any satire.



This debate is giving me life.

Joe Molotov

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Quote
Guys, can we go back. The GOP frontrunner just said he has a big dong.

A frontrunner for President of the United States just said he has a big wang.

Reality is far worse than any satire.

(Image removed from quote.)

This debate is giving me life.

Trump channeling his inner LBJ.
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Joe Molotov

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Moderator: "War Crimes. You down?"

Trump: "Ayup."

*crowd goes wild*
©@©™

Dennis

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NSFL


Atramental

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That's probably a common accurance for Cruz since his nose is so close to his mouth.

Joe Molotov

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Rubio dishing talking points directly from the John Oliver video. :lol
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Trurl

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I wondered what was in Cruz's mouth.   

Dennis

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Rubio has to be finished after this. We are talking Jeb-level weak here. A mess.

Oh how immensely enjoyable it was to see FOX throw him straight under the bus.

Joe Molotov

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Kasich talking, everyone take a bathroom break.
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HyperZoneWasAwesome

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Yeah, Rubio is toast, like burnt toast even. And like Rubio, toast sweats.

has Kasich been portrayed on SNL yet, and is Garry Shandling available?

Joe Molotov

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One supreme court judge away from the 2nd Amendment being erased from the Bill of Rights. :lawd
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HyperZoneWasAwesome

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okay, that yoga line was pretty good.


Dennis

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Joe Molotov

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©@©™

Dennis

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Quote
More time was spent on Trump's dick than Flint Michigan.

 :doge

Atramental

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I've had my doubts but now I think it is safe to say we are living in a simulated reality. And that simulation is inside of a computer at The Onion.

Madrun Badrun

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Dennis

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CNN asking both Trump and his wife about the dick moment.

This is a real thing that happened.

Let's Cyber

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CNN asking both Trump and his wife about the dick moment.

This is a real thing that happened.
Welcome to the new age  :success

Dennis

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Great Rumbler

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dog

Dennis

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Look at these hands.

I rest my case.

Madrun Badrun

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Jesus this is going to fuel Canadian smugness for years.  How embarrassed you guys must feel about the state of your politics.

Dennis

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The hands don't lie.

Madrun Badrun

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_________________
|The hands don't lie.|
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Mods Help

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Jesus this is going to fuel Canadian smugness for years.  How embarrassed you guys must feel about the state of your politics.

Most Americans think the dream is alive and that we're still the best nation in the world. Nothing tonight would convince them otherwise. Most don't care. They've become so apathetic they literally don't give a fuck what you think about our politics. America deserve this, let's be honest, for letting this fester and grow and have our politics grow ever more right in the past 50 years. That's the part people don't want to admit. They will only start to give a shit when it actually starts to affect their day to day. Most Americans don't give a FUCK.


benjipwns

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Other than Rubio cribbing the John Oliver segment and interrupting rather than let Trump hang himself because he was so proud he flustered The Donald, this was mainly the only part I watched:
Quote
BAIER: Mr. Trump, just yesterday, almost 100 foreign policy experts signed on to an open letter refusing to support you, saying your embracing expansive use of torture is inexcusable. General Michael Hayden, former CIA director, NSA director, and other experts have said that when you asked the U.S. military to carry out some of your campaign promises, specifically targeting terrorists' families, and also the use of interrogation methods more extreme than waterboarding, the military will refuse because they've been trained to turn down and refuse illegal orders.

So what would you do, as commander-in-chief, if the U.S. military refused to carry out those orders?

TRUMP: They won't refuse. They're not going to refuse me. Believe me.


BAIER: But they're illegal.

TRUMP: Let me just tell you, you look at the Middle East. They're chopping off heads. They're chopping off the heads of Christians and anybody else that happens to be in the way. They're drowning people in steel cages. And he -- now we're talking about waterboarding.

This really started with Ted, a question was asked of Ted last -- two debates ago about waterboarding. And Ted was, you know, having a hard time with that question, to be totally honest with you. They then came to me, what do you think of waterboarding? I said it's fine. And if we want to go stronger, I'd go stronger, too, because, frankly...

.. that's the way I feel. Can you imagine -- can you imagine these people, these animals over in the Middle East, that chop off heads, sitting around talking and seeing that we're having a hard problem with waterboarding? We should go for waterboarding and we should go tougher than waterboarding. That's my opinion.

BAIER: But targeting terrorists' families?

TRUMP: And -- and -- and -- I'm a leader. I'm a leader. I've always been a leader. I've never had any problem leading people. If I say do it, they're going to do it. That's what leadership is all about.

BAIER: Even targeting terrorists' families?

TRUMP: Well, look, you know, when a family flies into the World Trade Center, a man flies into the World Trade Center, and his family gets sent back to where they were going -- and I think most of you know where they went -- and, by the way, it wasn't Iraq -- but they went back to a certain territory, they knew what was happening. The wife knew exactly what was happening.

They left two days early, with respect to the World Trade Center, and they went back to where they went, and they watched their husband on television flying into the World Trade Center, flying into the Pentagon, and probably trying to fly into the White House, except we had some very, very brave souls on that third plane. All right?

BAIER: Senator Cruz, you were mentioned.

TRUMP: I have no problem with it.

BAIER: Senator Cruz?

CRUZ: Bret, you know, I think the American people understand that yelling and cursing at people doesn't make you a tough guy. We need a commander-in-chief that, number one, will rebuild the military, just like Ronald Reagan did in 1981 coming out of the weak Jimmy Carter administration. He passed tax reform and regulatory reform. The economy took off. It generated millions in high-paying jobs, trillions in new revenue. He rebuilt the military, bankrupted the Soviet Union, and won the Cold War.

As president, I will do the exact same thing with radical Islamic terrorism. We will rebuild this military so that it remains the mightiest fighting force on the face of the planet. And then, when I am commander-in-chief, every militant on the face of the Earth will understand that if they go and join ISIS, if they wage jihad against the United States of America, they are signing their death warrant.
Quote
BAIER: But, Senator Cruz, in 2013, you said you were open -- you were open to the possibility that Edward Snowden had performed a considerable public service, you said back then, in revealing certain aspects of the NSA procedures. Many of your colleagues in the Senate, including Senator Rubio, called him a traitor. It took you until January of this year to call him a traitor and say he should be tried for treason. Why the change of heart? And why did it take you so long?

CRUZ: Well, Bret, as someone who spent much of his life in law enforcement, I believe you should start with the facts and evidence first before ending up with the verdict. When the news first broke of the United States government engaging in massive surveillance on American citizens, that was a very troubling development, and it's why the United States Congress acted to correct it.

Now, at the same time, I said in that initial statement that if the evidence indicated that Edward Snowden violated the law, he should be prosecuted for violating the law. And, indeed, since then, the evidence is clear that not only does Snowden violate the law, but it appears he committed treason. Treason is defined under the Constitution as giving aid and comfort to the enemies of America, and what Snowden did made it easier for terrorists to avoid detection.

And Snowden's comments afterwards, and his behavior afterwards, he fled to Russia, he fled to China. His conducts afterwards indicates that he was not a whistleblower, but instead he was undermining the ability to defend this country. But we need a president who isn't rash, who doesn't just pop off at the -- at the hip, but waits to see what the facts are and then acts to defend this country.
Quote
BAIER: Mr. Trump, you've repeatedly deflected calls for specific national security or defense policy plans with the claim that you'll ask the best people when you become president, and take their advice.

So who are the best people? Can you reveal two or three names that you trust for national security?

TRUMP: I think Richard Haass is excellent. I have a lot of respect for him. I think General Keane is excellent. I think that there are -- I like Colonel Jacobs very much. I see him. I know him. I have many people that I think are really excellent but in the end it's going to be my decision.

When you just asked the question about Snowden, I will tell you right from the beginning, I said he was a spy and we should get him back. And if Russia respected our country, they would have sent him back immediately, but he was a spy. It didn't take me a long time to figure that one out. Believe me.

But I would get the best people, people that I'd be comfortable with. And we will do the right thing.

KASICH: Bret, it's very interesting to note, I think it's for the good of the record here that they took a survey of foreign policy magazines, 700 foreign policy experts, who would be the best person to conduct foreign policy of all the candidates in the race?

I received 55 percent of the vote. Jeb Bush received 30 percent of the vote. And everybody else, none of them made double digits. And that's because you have to have the experience.

And you know, we hear about Ronald Reagan rebuilding the military. I was there when Ronald Reagan rebuilt the military. I worked with him. I was there when Ronald Reagan rebuilt the economy. I was there, and I worked with him. I knew Ronald Reagan.

And I'll leave it right there with what comes after that. You can figure that one out.

BAIER: Governor Kasich, thank you.

benjipwns

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Also:
Quote
KELLY: No, no, no. Hold on. Hold on. We can do more of this later. Mr. Trump, hi.

TRUMP: Hello.

KELLY: How are you doing?

TRUMP: Nice to be with you, Megyn.

KELLY: Great to have you here.

TRUMP: You're looking well. You're looking well.

KELLY: As are you.

benjipwns

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Also seems like Megyn, Bret and Chris Wallace have been ripping into the GOPers way more than all the other debate moderators. And often actually about issues (that the candidates have bombed on), not campaign garbage or trying to make them all fight.

I wish Megyn would rip into me on the issues. :noah

spoiler (click to show/hide)
And Bret? :hitler
[close]

HyperZoneWasAwesome

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I wish Megyn would rip into me on the issues. :noah
spoiler (click to show/hide)
And Bret? :hitler
[close]
well, a lot of the gay folk round here are into Baiers.