Yet another GAF thread - I still haven't got over it :( (No spergfits allowed)

[nudemacusers]

 

[thisismyusername]

Prime? or Metroid in general?

Prime. I agree with Esch, the series is and all that. I can see why some people enjoy it but it's total -ville to me compared to the "classic" gameplay.

[Himu]

I think AniHawk said it best when he compared the Prime games to 3D Zelda games, as the formulas are almost identical. theme dungeons, an item upgrade per dungeon, pattern-based bosses, and as Esch points out, they even threw the dark/light world into 2 just to really beat it into your head that these really are just Zelda games with Metroid dressing.

This is stupid. You know why? Everything you wrote in that paragraph is Metroid to a tee. Metroid has always had pattern based boss fights and a special item in each unique area to gain access to new areas. Metroid even has theme dungeons. The fire areas where you need to get a suit upgrade to survive, the forest areas, the science labs. Everything in your post just lumps it in with the action adventure genre, which Metroid is.

[nudemacusers]

well it really doesn't matter anyway since the next metroid is gonna be an ios runner after nintendo sells the rights so they can keep the lights on after their old people workout devices fail.

[Shadow Mod]

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=828367

so much butthurt from the get go

[Himu]

Also, complaining about backtracking in Metroid is like complaining about driving in GTA. Might as well complain about Final Fantasy being command based battles too.

[Raban]

This is stupid. You know why? Everything you wrote in that paragraph is Metroid to a tee. Metroid has always had pattern based boss fights and a special item in each unique area to gain access to new areas. Metroid even has theme dungeons. The fire areas where you need to get a suit upgrade to survive, the forest areas, the science labs. Everything in your post just lumps it in with the action adventure genre, which Metroid is.

yeah but I forgot to mention that Prime also uses the same Z-targeting combat of the 3D Zelda games, and replaces the swift acrobatics of 2D Metroid games with very forgiving, lumbering jumps.

and I was mistaken when I said pattern-based, I meant puzzle-based. the boss where you have to flip up panels before you can attack is the one I remember most clearly feeling like a chore rather than a pulse-pounding fight, which is more or less how I'd describe 3D Zelda bosses. I'm sure that wasn't the only boss in the trilogy where you had to manipulate the environment to instead of going toe to toe with a raging monster (like the bosses in Other M )

well it really doesn't matter anyway since the next metroid is gonna be an ios runner after nintendo sells the rights so they can keep the lights on after their old people workout devices fail.

I'd buy that for a dollar.

[Shadow Mod]

It's easy to rile up people who fit into the categories these women rant about when it comes to shitty romance. Probably hits too close to home.

[Himu]

Now that I can understand. There are definitely similarities, but it's still Metroid for me, and it's pretty hard for Metroid to transition from the blazing swiftness of 2d Metroid to 3d. A lot of classic franchises have that problem, and I fail to see how they'd be able to fix that, Prime or not. It's extremely difficult to make an actually challenging 3d platformer due to the way they're made, which is why most 3d platformers are more about "how do I get there?", memorization rather than emphasizing reflexes. And it isn't like 2d Metroid ever had challenging platforming to begin with, especially with abilities like the screw attack. It wasn't recently until 3d platformers started to mix 2d grassroots in their gameplay enabling a more agile and smooth experience as we saw with titles such as the Mario Galaxy games. I'd like to see the Prime formula revisited with a more modern twist for a better gameplay experience.

I'm not exactly sure how a 3d Metroid would even work the way people want it. The series is about exploration, secrets, backtracking while still keeping a cool, fast pace. With 3d, that's extremely hard to pull off. 2d, by virtue of its medium, will always be faster.

RE: puzzle-based bosses. Hit the weak point is definitely lame.

RE: Lock-on. I somewhat agree with this.

Funnily, the best 3d example I can think of a fast-paced game with exploration and backtracking is Ninja Gaiden 1.

[Shadow Mod]

My single friend runs into dudes pushing 30 and 30+ who just don't get how they come across.

[Raban]

Now that I can understand. There are definitely similarities, but it's still Metroid for me, and it's pretty hard for Metroid to transition from the blazing swiftness of 2d Metroid to 3d. A lot of classic franchises have that problem, and I fail to see how they'd be able to fix that, Prime or not. It's extremely difficult to make an actually challenging 3d platformer due to the way they're made, which is why most 3d platformers are more about "how do I get there?", memorization rather than emphasizing reflexes. And it isn't like 2d Metroid ever had challenging platforming to begin with, especially with abilities like the screw attack. It wasn't recently until 3d platformers started to mix 2d grassroots in their gameplay enabling a more agile and smooth experience as we saw with titles such as the Mario Galaxy games. I'd like to see the Prime formula revisited with a more modern twist for a better gameplay experience.

I'm not exactly sure how a 3d Metroid would even work the way people want it. The series is about exploration, secrets, backtracking while still keeping a cool, fast pace. With 3d, that's extremely hard to pull off. 2d, by virtue of its medium, will always be faster.

play Other M

Combat in Metroid Prime required quick reflexes once you got into the late game. Platforming wasn't that great, but a 1st person 3D game was never going to be a great platformer.

play Mirror's Edge

[Himu]

Other M is, to my recollection, 2.5D.

It doesn't count when I'm talking about a 3d Metroid. I'm talking about a full 3d one that isn't trying to be a side scroller.

[thisismyusername]

Combat in Metroid Prime required quick reflexes once you got into the late game. Platforming wasn't that great, but a 1st person 3D game was never going to be a great platformer.

spoiler (click to show/hide)

Re-watching ME2's announcement trailer still gets me rock hard. Oh god yes more First Person Parkour/Platforming. HNNNNNNNNNNNNNG.

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[Raban]

Other M is, to my recollection, 2.5D.

It doesn't count when I'm talking about a 3d Metroid. I'm talking about a full 3d one that isn't trying to be a side scroller.

it's not 2.5D, you aren't locked to a single plane of movement like Viewtiful Joe, or Shadow Complex, etc. It's eight-directional movement and there are 3D spaces, it just occasionally puts the camera at an angle where it looks like a 2D game, but you can always move in eight directions.

seriously, play it. it's Metroid Fusion in 3D with cutscenes instead of text interludes. if you liked that game at all, you'll find something to enjoy in Other M.

[Your Stalker]

[Himu]

Other M is, to my recollection, 2.5D.

It doesn't count when I'm talking about a 3d Metroid. I'm talking about a full 3d one that isn't trying to be a side scroller.

it's not 2.5D, you aren't locked to a single plane of movement like Viewtiful Joe, or Shadow Complex, etc. It's eight-directional movement and there are 3D spaces, it just occasionally puts the camera at an angle where it looks like a 2D game, but you can always move in eight directions.

seriously, play it. it's Metroid Fusion in 3D with cutscenes instead of text interludes. if you liked that game at all, you'll find something to enjoy in Other M.

Aside from dark Samus I find fusion the worst game in the series after the original. It isn't a bad game though. So maybe I'll emulate it some day (other M)

[Positive Touch]

as a lifelong metroid fanatic i can assure you other m really does suck as much as you have been led to believe

[fizzel]

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=828367

so much butthurt from the get go

dennis's women issues probably stem from the fact he looks like a child molestor.

[Raban]

as a lifelong metroid fanatic i can assure you other m really does suck as much as you have been led to believe

[fistfulofmetal]

as a lifelong metroid fanatic i can assure you other m really does suck as much as you have been led to believe

second

Super Metroid > Metroid Prime > Metroid Zero Mission > Prime 2 > Fusion > everything else >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wearing a colostomy bag with arsenic laced catheters > Other M

[Raban]

Other M > Zero Mission > Super/Fusion > Metroid > Metroid 2
since we're whipping our lists out

[Great Rumbler]

Lots of people rail on Other M's story, characters, and cutscenes, and rightly so, but it's really not that good even if you overlook those things.

[Phoenix Dark]

Prime 2 was pretty disappointing to me. It was pretty much the same thing with the light/dark Nintendo trope. And the multiplayer was insultingly bad.

[Raban]

Lots of people rail on Other M's story, characters, and cutscenes, and rightly so, but it's really not that good even if you overlook those things.

yeah I had heard all the negative criticism before playing it and it made my expectations so low that I was pleasantly surprised when I actually played the game. there was a turning point about halfway through where that pleasantness became outright enjoyment, and it's one of the few games I didn't hesitate to start again immediately after finishing.

I can't speak for anyone else, but it's exactly what I always dreamed a 3D Metroid game would be.

[Phoenix Dark]

Metroid Hunters was pretty fun. Used to play it with Cheebs and GAFers all the time, the controls were pretty great once you got a hang of it. There was a Tribes type skill curve where eventually you got to a point where you were doing awesome shit, and just having a blast.

[fistfulofmetal]

The light/dark mechanics in Prime 2 get really fucking tedious. Like, the worst part of Prime 1 was the scavenger hunt you have to do at the end. SO THEY MADE THAT THE ENTIRE GAME. WHAT.

Still better than Other M. I'd rather get hit by a car while riding my bike than play Other M.

[Shadow Mod]

Excuse the weird comparison but Other M reminds me of the Star Wars prequels. Like do we really need backstory on certain characters? Especially if it just shits all over their future actions?

[Fifstar]

Metroid Prime is weird, I loved in on my first playthrough, but I never had any desire to play it again. Also, that agressive music tune that gets triggered in some rooms drove me nuts. Cinematic effect the first time you encounter it (I think it when you meet the space pirates the first time) but gets more annoying each time you reach such a cue point.

[Raban]

The light/dark mechanics in Prime 2 get really fucking tedious. Like, the worst part of Prime 1 was the scavenger hunt you have to do at the end. SO THEY MADE THAT THE ENTIRE GAME. WHAT.

Still better than Other M. I'd rather get hit by a car while riding my bike than play Other M.

[Steve Youngblood]

Other M > Zero Mission > Super/Fusion > Metroid > Metroid 2
since we're whipping our lists out

This is even worse than Andrex saying Hunters was his favorite.

[Himu]

I agree that Metroid Prime while great the first time isn't something I want to play again. In fact, I feel the same way about the whole series except Super and Zero Mission. It's one of those series where I love playing it the first run, but replays kinda bore me or I'm not too enticed to replay.

[Raban]

Other M > Zero Mission > Super/Fusion > Metroid > Metroid 2
since we're whipping our lists out

This is even worse than Andrex saying Hunters was his favorite.

yes but is it worse than andrex saying that Tron Legacy is the greatest sci fi movie ever?

Excuse the weird comparison but Other M reminds me of the Star Wars prequels. Like do we really need backstory on certain characters? Especially if it just shits all over their future actions?

yeah I get what you're saying but it's not like Samus was a fully-developed, badass character the same way Darth Vader was. She was a cipher and Other M adds only very little in the way of motivation for Samus' actions, which nerdbos misconstrued to the point of extremity so they could justify their crying.

[fistfulofmetal]

it's already long been established that kids say the darnest things. what's your excuse?

[fistfulofmetal]

Other M turns Samus into a submissive scared little baby bitch. Unnecessary character development

[Kara]

I liked the ending of Echoes. The aliens were like, "we can't repay you Samus, so we just gonna bow respectfully in a small public display," and Samus like, "NP, just doin' my thang, smell ya later," and strolled through her muted fanfare nonchalantly and ended it with a lil' wave.

[Rahxephon91]

This was a good "lets explore the character's backstory" thingy.



Could have said MGS3, but yeah..

[Himu]

Nico Robin in One Piece. She's the most mysterious character ever for almost 150 issues and then you get this amazing heartbreaking backstory that changes how you view her.

As Rah said, the flashback in Kenshin is also fantastic.

[Rufus]

Metroid Prime is weird, I loved in on my first playthrough, but I never had any desire to play it again. Also, that agressive music tune that gets triggered in some rooms drove me nuts. Cinematic effect the first time you encounter it (I think it when you meet the space pirates the first time) but gets more annoying each time you reach such a cue point.

Yeah, same here. I loved it the first time through, tried to do everything there was to do, but very quickly burned out when I attempted to go back years later.

[Himu]

I don't think. MGS3 really counts because Big Boss isn't exactly a mysterious character. His motives are clear.

[helios]

I liked the ending of Echoes. The aliens were like, "we can't repay you Samus, so we just gonna bow respectfully in a small public display," and Samus like, "NP, just doin' my thang, smell ya later," and strolled through her muted fanfare nonchalantly and ended it with a lil' wave.

[fistfulofmetal]

They could have totally given some character to Samus.

But they gave the job of doing it to Team Ninja.



TEAM NINJA

spoiler (click to show/hide)

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[magus]

i know lot of people love metroid prime but honestly i could never get into it because i hate first person game with a burning passion...

also the thing that makes super metroid amazing is the music and super-detailed spritework, i can remember all of super metroid boss easily but i can't remember a single one of metroid prime

[Rahxephon91]

They could have totally given some character to Samus.

But they gave the job of doing it to Team Ninja.



TEAM NINJA

spoiler (click to show/hide)

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I don't think Team Ninja was responsible for the story and there sure wasn't enough of that Team Ninja tna anyway.

[Himu]

To be fair, at the time team ninja was the best action developer and as I said before, ninja Gaiden 1, felt like a pseudo Metroid. So I can see why they'd do team ninja. They had a great pedigree, pre-Hayashi.

[Himu]

It gets pretty boring when the space pirates showed up

[fistfulofmetal]

The Phazon mines was the weakest part of Prime.

[Raban]

They could have totally given some character to Samus.

But they gave the job of doing it to Team Ninja.



TEAM NINJA

spoiler (click to show/hide)

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actually the writer of Other M was Yoshio Sakamoto, the creator of the Metroid series. Team Ninja only worked on the technical side of the game.

[fistfulofmetal]

that makes it even worse.

[Raban]

I dunno, Yokoi had nothing to do with Super Metroid which ended up being many people's favorite in the series. that was all straight from the Sak, baby

[Tasty]

Other M > Zero Mission > Super/Fusion > Metroid > Metroid 2
since we're whipping our lists out

This is even worse than Andrex saying Hunters was his favorite.

yes but is it worse than andrex saying that Tron Legacy is the greatest sci fi movie ever?

I didn't say greatest, I said one of the greatest. Big difference boo 

[Oblivion]

They could have totally given some character to Samus.

But they gave the job of doing it to Team Ninja.



TEAM NINJA

spoiler (click to show/hide)

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The funny thing is that there's zero fanservice in the game despite Team Ninja's involvement.

[Great Rumbler]

Nobody wants to see Samus being a sensitive woman who follows orders from some old dude and gets scared by a giant monster.

[Trent Dole]

Nobody wants to see Samus being a sensitive woman who follows orders from some old dude and gets scared by a giant monster.

Samus is a silent badass who works alone because she don't need no one else, fucks entire planets shit up, then jets off to the next thang.

[Shadow Mod]

Actually, I think Samus and Darth is fairly apt.  Throw Wolverine in there, too.

Can anyone think of any situation where "Let's explore in detail the mysterious past of a mysterious character" was ever a good thing in the long run?

Ends up giving badass characters depressing backstories, and especially with the villains it just kinds of turns awesome evil assholes into tragic figures. I don't like them as tragic figures, and by them, I don't mean villains as a whole, but those specific ones, that's not how they originally came across. The tragic figure that works is Mr Freeze because that's how he was established. I don't like it when they give Joker a backstory usually. I like him coming in as a force of chaos they can't backtrack.

It's one of those things where a backstory itself isn't wrong but what they manage to do with it each and every time is contradict the original character we were exposed to. It just leaves me going "so I'm supposed to sympathize with them now?"

[Tasty]

I'm actually surprised how DC hasn't stuck its dick into the Joker's backstory too much. There's pretty much just The Killing Joke, and yeah it really does destroy the mystery (though that whole "multiple choice" thing does pop up, preserving some of it) and set him up as some tragic figure initially, but its a great story on its own and the tragic thing is thrown out the window by the end of it because of what he does to Babs and Gordon.

Other writers seem pretty content to not step on that hallowed ground at least.

[Shadow Mod]

Mask of the Phantasm gave him a bit of one but I like that movie.

[Tasty]

Really? I'll have to rewatch that movie.

[benjipwns]

There's been some one-off stories in things like Legends of the Dark Knight, Batman: Confidential, etc. that did Joker origin stories that I thought captured the tragedy, insanity and danger of the Joker well enough.

Arkham Origin's spin on it was decent.

[thisismyusername]

No one has time for half your discussion (edit: Though I see Andy and Benji tried to steer it off -ville), homos, because:



http://www.whitehouse.gov/the-press-office/2014/05/30/presidential-proclamation-lesbian-gay-bisexual-and-transgender-pride-mon

[Momo]

This was a good "lets explore the character's backstory" thingy.



Could have said MGS3, but yeah..

Nico Robin in One Piece. She's the most mysterious character ever for almost 150 issues and then you get this amazing heartbreaking backstory that changes how you view her.

As Rah said, the flashback in Kenshin is also fantastic.

In video games - ProtoMan :'(