Author Topic: State of Decay  (Read 12864 times)

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Stoney Mason

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State of Decay
« on: May 06, 2013, 05:54:25 PM »


« Last Edit: April 30, 2014, 10:13:58 AM by Stoney Mason »

Great Rumbler

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Re: State of Decay
« Reply #1 on: May 06, 2013, 05:56:50 PM »
I always wondered why nobody tried to make an open-world zombie-survival game before [meaning, Dead Rising but taking place throughout an entire town].
dog

Steve Contra

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Re: State of Decay
« Reply #2 on: May 06, 2013, 06:16:44 PM »
Isn't that Day Z game kind of open world survival?
vin

Great Rumbler

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Re: State of Decay
« Reply #3 on: May 06, 2013, 06:24:12 PM »
Isn't that Day Z game kind of open world survival?

There's no kinda about it.

It's also terrible.
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chronovore

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Re: State of Decay
« Reply #4 on: May 07, 2013, 02:33:50 AM »
June, hm? This looks awesome. I mean, there are issues with camera control, in terms of moving into the building during the "Tactics" video; the player-character is placed in a see-all area, but the player can't see in the store; the camera requires manual fudging during the actual entry to an indoor location... BUT I WILL BUY IT. No doubt.

State of Decay looks to have some base management and group morale, etc. I wonder if it started off as a tie-in to World War Z.

I always wondered why nobody tried to make an open-world zombie-survival game before [meaning, Dead Rising but taking place throughout an entire town].

Dead Rush was one of my most-anticipated titles last-gen; I was super sad when it was canceled. According to a friend who was at Activision at the time, it was near to completion.

Steve Contra

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Re: State of Decay
« Reply #5 on: May 07, 2013, 11:44:14 AM »
It was near to completion, but they put all their resources on that launch western game because they thought zombies were over in the new gen :-\
vin

chronovore

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Re: State of Decay
« Reply #6 on: May 07, 2013, 07:06:47 PM »
I'm not sure if I buy that, as the launch western game, GUN, was ps2/og xbox for main platform, and it wouldn't make sense to take the also-last-gen Dead Rush team, and put them on an uprezzed port.

Then again, maybe that's only clear in hindsight, or maybe Activision just wanted to play it safe. 

But it's not like western games were massively big sellers, prior to Red Dead Redemption.

Steve Contra

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Re: State of Decay
« Reply #7 on: May 07, 2013, 07:12:09 PM »
I worked with the producer of Dead Rush and a bunch of the artists from the team :P they kind of got fucked over.
vin

chronovore

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Re: State of Decay
« Reply #8 on: May 07, 2013, 07:20:27 PM »
Ah. That's really too bad.

I had a serious chub for Dead Rush/b].

I'm hoping State of Decay scratches that long held itch, but I've not seen any previous epic-scale, open world games on XBLA.

Stoney Mason

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Re: State of Decay
« Reply #9 on: May 31, 2013, 11:12:13 AM »

Vertigo

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Re: State of Decay
« Reply #10 on: May 31, 2013, 11:35:37 AM »
Been following this game for ages.

Looks slightly janky but I don't care.

Joe Molotov

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Re: State of Decay
« Reply #11 on: May 31, 2013, 11:36:49 AM »
Isn't that Day Z game kind of open world survival?

There's no kinda about it.

It's also terrible.

No, you're thinking of War Z, which was bad. DayZ is the awesome ARMA II mod that they're making into a game.
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chronovore

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Re: State of Decay
« Reply #12 on: May 31, 2013, 08:33:04 PM »
The video just makes me want t more, warts and all.

Stoney Mason

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Re: State of Decay
« Reply #13 on: June 03, 2013, 04:55:33 PM »
Quote
Undead Labs' hugely ambitious open-world zombie survival game State of Decay is due this Wednesday, 5th June on XBLA.

Stoney Mason

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Re: State of Decay
« Reply #14 on: June 04, 2013, 05:03:52 PM »

Stoney Mason

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Re: State of Decay
« Reply #15 on: June 05, 2013, 04:31:50 PM »
This seems pretty good so far although I'm really early. It's really heavy on the survival aspects which is cool. The graphics and even the controls kind of suck but the premise is very immersive

Rahxephon91

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Re: State of Decay
« Reply #16 on: June 05, 2013, 05:29:34 PM »
I also got it this morning.

And one of the great moments I already had was taking a partner into a house to search for supplies. Well, as I was searching I noticed there was a zombie horde walking down the street. Well I wasn't in their plain of sight and went about my business. I notice they aren't on the minimap  anymore and try to quickly open the last supply box, which of course makes a lot of noise and alerts the horde. The horde swiftly rushes the house and we are overwhelmed. I tried to put up a fight, but their numbers were so overwhelming that I chose to jump the fuck out of there and leave my partner. I mean I simply did not have the supplies to put up a fight.

It was pretty amazing.
« Last Edit: June 05, 2013, 07:27:26 PM by Rahxephon91 »

Stoney Mason

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Re: State of Decay
« Reply #17 on: June 05, 2013, 05:52:42 PM »
Yeah has a good feel for the world. I like the tone and the ideas they have. It feels like Walking Dead the videogame at least setting wise rather than sort of the goofy carnival atmopshere of Dead Rising. (Not a knock. I never really liked Dead Rising but it was for separate reasons)

demi

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Re: State of Decay
« Reply #18 on: June 05, 2013, 05:58:41 PM »
Might cop this.
fat

demi

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Re: State of Decay
« Reply #19 on: June 05, 2013, 06:00:44 PM »
All the issues people are having isn't making it a hot buy at 1600, though.
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chronovore

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Re: State of Decay
« Reply #20 on: June 05, 2013, 07:02:40 PM »
It's out! It's out! Very excited! PURCHASED through xbox.com.

Can't wait to get home from work and play this.

Stoney Mason

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Re: State of Decay
« Reply #21 on: June 05, 2013, 07:19:33 PM »
All the issues people are having isn't making it a hot buy at 1600, though.

Haven't read GAF so what issues are people having? I mean the game is incredibly janky and clearly low budget but its not like its crashing on me or anything so far.
« Last Edit: June 05, 2013, 07:21:10 PM by Stoney Mason »

demi

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Re: State of Decay
« Reply #22 on: June 05, 2013, 07:24:12 PM »
Well... its janky and low budget. I dont think its a 1600 game with these technical issues. Maybe they can smooth it out?

It will drop anyway. Cant stay $20 forever!
fat

Stoney Mason

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Re: State of Decay
« Reply #23 on: June 05, 2013, 07:26:12 PM »
meh. From the pre-release videos it looks janky and low budget. Its fine for what it is. I guess I didn't go in expecting a lot of polish here is what I mean. The attraction was always the premise.

Rahxephon91

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Re: State of Decay
« Reply #24 on: June 05, 2013, 07:30:07 PM »
I don't know, I feel like $20 is pretty much the perfect price. You're getting  an interesting game with seemingly a lot to it.

And I guess it's low budget ,but I mean it's not like the graphics are offensive. The animations get the job done. The gameplay works well enough. I guess maybe there's some bugs like zombies going through walls, but there's nothing offensive here. Nothing to get in the way of the game.
« Last Edit: June 05, 2013, 08:00:19 PM by Rahxephon91 »

Eric P

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Re: State of Decay
« Reply #25 on: June 05, 2013, 07:40:05 PM »
i'm having quite a bit of fun with this so far just clearing out the opening area of supplies and such
Tonya

Steve Contra

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Re: State of Decay
« Reply #26 on: June 05, 2013, 07:44:04 PM »
Are you trying to get to a boat in this game?
vin

Stoney Mason

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Re: State of Decay
« Reply #27 on: June 05, 2013, 07:49:44 PM »
And one of the great moments I already had was taking a partner into a house to search for supplies. Well, as I was searching I noticed there was a zombie horde walking down the street. Well I wasn't in their plain of sight and went about my business. I notice they aren't on the minimap  anymore and try to quickly open the last supply box, which of course makes a lot of noise and alerts the horde. The horde swiftly rushes the house and we are overwhelmed. I tried to put up a fight, but their numbers were so overwhelming that I chose to jump the fuck out of there and leave my partner. I mean I simply did not have the supplies to put up a fight.

It's funny how open worlds create these little emergent situations. I passed a guy on a way to mission who wanted me to escort him back somewhere with supplies. I was going to do it, but I wanted to do my mission first which was near him. After the mission I was heading home and the dude who wanted me to escort me was being over-run at his place by the horde. I wanted to save him but I was carrying a bunch a shit and them attacking him had created a distraction. So I just snuck by the nasty incident. I felt bad but hey things are fucked up.

cool breeze

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Re: State of Decay
« Reply #28 on: June 05, 2013, 09:42:56 PM »


Any hints as to when the PC version will come out and in what capacity? been hearing positive talk about it and it looks cool enough.

Stoney Mason

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Re: State of Decay
« Reply #29 on: June 05, 2013, 11:17:26 PM »
Game is really fucking cool. Part of that is because this is right in my wheelhouse. I've always wanted a game like this. So even though I can see its flaws clearly, I don't really care. I just enjoy being in the world and doing stuff. EA or some big company is gonna copy this game and turn it into a big budget hit with co-op and great graphics and great production values, etc. It kind of reminds me of the first time I played Test Drive Unlimited. Another completely jank product that had balls and was ahead of its time and budget.

Haven't been following Last of Us that much but it sounds like the multiplayer is doing some of this. But I really dig the game. It has balls.

Stoney Mason

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Re: State of Decay
« Reply #30 on: June 07, 2013, 05:31:35 PM »
There are some annoying mechanical things or bugs that make we want to wait until the game is patched.


Apparently its a feature that the world simulation continues while you are away from the game which is kinda dumb imo. That should be a togglable option. I had full morale when I turned off the game and when I came back it was less than half.

Also things like people bitching about too many infestations which also effects morale but there being no infestations actually on my map since I've cleared them all away.

A lot of little annoying bugs and quirks that make me want to wait.

Their first title update is already coming.



Quote
Hola fellow survivors. Just wanted you to know we submitted Title Update 1 to certification this afternoon.

Title Updates have to go through a "mini certification" process, so it will be a bit before these roll out, but we wanted to let you know what was coming. We expect the update to be available next week. We'll keep you posted as we have more specific information.

Here is what we've fixed:


NEW: Playable characters can no longer be killed by the simulation
Workshop now repairs weapons and vehicles at game dawn rather than the next real-world day.
Reduced cooldown times of commands in the Radio Menu, notably Words of Encouragement, Words of Inspiration, and Medical Advice.
NPCs no longer get stuck behind the counter or on the stairs at the gun shop in Spencer's Mill.
The "Too many infestations!" event will now only occur when there are too many infestations within 500m of your Home, rather than anywhere in the world.
The "Too many infestations" to-do item is now cleared when there are fewer than three infestations within 500m of your Home, rather than anywhere in the world.
You must now be close to the ranger station for the Memento mission scene to play. Previously you would be teleported to the station if you left before the end of the mission.
Community members will properly interact with Facilities in your home. Previously they would stop after a period of time.
Feral zombie now properly dodges vehicles approaching at an angle.
NPCs will now reliably reach warehouse between Mt. Tanner and Spencer's Mill when called to gather supplies.
You can now punch out through the windshield of a vehicle if both doors are blocked.
Zombies and NPCs no longer get stuck behind the grocery store in Marshall.
NPCs now properly move to the proper location during cinematic scenes.
Zombies no longer fall through floor in the Marshall courthouse.
Zombies can no longer get under porch or floor at the Wilkerson's farmhouse.
Fixed a few rare crash bugs.
Fixed various translations bugs.


« Last Edit: June 07, 2013, 05:35:21 PM by Stoney Mason »

chronovore

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Re: State of Decay
« Reply #31 on: June 07, 2013, 07:44:42 PM »
I didn't make it all that far yet, but I'm happy a patch is en route.

demi

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Re: State of Decay
« Reply #32 on: June 07, 2013, 11:52:19 PM »
Yup... will wait for them to fix their $20 game :thumbsup
fat

Stoney Mason

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Re: State of Decay
« Reply #33 on: June 08, 2013, 01:13:02 AM »
Quote
Arthur Gies ‏@aegies 8m

in other news: state of decay is apparently the second fastest selling game in XBLA history behind minecraft, which is awesome.

chronovore

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Re: State of Decay
« Reply #34 on: June 08, 2013, 02:26:31 AM »
I restarted again, did better until I got to the church, and then screwed up my first escort mission. The game teaches you all kinds of stuff, but doesn't state your wounded character needs to rest, or that trading characters will allow one character to rest etc. I was running around all night, wondering why can't I just sleep until morning.

Tried two missions during the night; going into buildings is already pretty bad, by virtue of the problems all third-person open world games seem to have in indoor spaces. Add to this utter darkness, or a feeble flashlight, and things get confusing and jittery pretty quickly.

I can't seem to find melee weapons, and have yet to use a handgun. I should probably start, but ammo feels scarce. Am I supposed to flee instead of fight?

Also, it's unclear if I can recruit survivors from my camp to come with me, or if multi-person missions are only he preset ones. Hard to believe I'm supposed to clear out a "Zombie Infestation" by myself, with a rapidly self destructing two-by-four. I love a challenge, but... hey.

I'm enjoying it, but it is not Grand Theft Zombie, nor is it Dead Rising, which felt very arcade-like in comparison. In DR, there are hordes of zombies which can be waded through, right through the midst of them. The SoD zombies here feel dangerous when there is more than one nearby. They'll grab and leap and bite... And healing is limited.

Eric P

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Re: State of Decay
« Reply #35 on: June 08, 2013, 07:20:48 AM »
Quote
“We are still working on the PC version, and I don’t have a really good estimate for completion. Too much depends on third parties. It isn’t going to be soon by any meaningful use of the word ‘soon’.”

http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2013/06/08/state-of-decay-still-coming-to-pc-but-not-soon
Tonya

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Re: State of Decay
« Reply #36 on: June 08, 2013, 06:28:45 PM »
Third party pc port? Ruh-roh!

Eel O'Brian

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Re: State of Decay
« Reply #37 on: June 08, 2013, 07:25:27 PM »
stealth release a year from now
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Eric P

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Re: State of Decay
« Reply #38 on: June 08, 2013, 08:44:56 PM »
spent like 10 hours on this today and State of Decay is an accurate name.  There is no comfort zone as the game ramps up difficulties as time goes one.  Buildings will have more zombies in them, there will be more hordes (large wandering clusters of zombies) and you'll get begged to do more missions.  Ignore the missions and you lose morale, lose morale and things get rough around the homestead.

Great game but as the game progresses without you.....it was really hard to find a stopping point.  I know that when I come back it will all be tears.
Tonya

Great Rumbler

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Re: State of Decay
« Reply #39 on: June 08, 2013, 10:22:24 PM »
Third party pc port? Ruh-roh!

Not uncommon, really.
dog

Stoney Mason

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Re: State of Decay
« Reply #40 on: June 09, 2013, 12:45:34 AM »
spent like 10 hours on this today and State of Decay is an accurate name.  There is no comfort zone as the game ramps up difficulties as time goes one.  Buildings will have more zombies in them, there will be more hordes (large wandering clusters of zombies) and you'll get begged to do more missions.  Ignore the missions and you lose morale, lose morale and things get rough around the homestead.

Great game but as the game progresses without you.....it was really hard to find a stopping point.  I know that when I come back it will all be tears.

Yep.

That's why I stopped until the patch because the infestation bug was fucking my morale. I'll probably restart when the patch comes out.

chronovore

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Re: State of Decay
« Reply #41 on: June 09, 2013, 07:07:13 AM »
If this weekend is any indication, I won't be not-playing this game long enough for the Morale bug to screw me. Well, maybe I'll sleep. A little.

Third party pc port? Ruh-roh!

Not uncommon, really.
Yeah, I know, but I also know they're not the most reliable way of doing them. My impression is they usually result in less efficient ports, requiring more horsepower in the target PC.

spent like 10 hours on this today and State of Decay is an accurate name.  There is no comfort zone as the game ramps up difficulties as time goes one.  Buildings will have more zombies in them, there will be more hordes (large wandering clusters of zombies) and you'll get begged to do more missions.  Ignore the missions and you lose morale, lose morale and things get rough around the homestead.

Great game but as the game progresses without you.....it was really hard to find a stopping point.  I know that when I come back it will all be tears.
Patch coming next week might take care of some of that, but I am already feeling some despair. I finally got used to swapping out characters when they're tired, and sent a "fresh" Marcus out to pic up the Doc at the Wilkinson's farm. My ammo ran out, and I thought I would not be able to keep the barricades up, so I thought to go out and rear attack the horde -- bad idea.

There are fat zombies which hulk out. Did you know that? I didn't know that.

...

I got a lovely eulogy for Marcus, and he went out in a blaze of glory, but HOLY SHIT at the viciousness.

I discovered again: this is not Dead Rising.

However! There are some really good combat tips over on GameFAQs, with Moves I'd not yet known about:
http://www.gamefaqs.com/boards/681534-state-of-decay/66371048

Eric P

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Re: State of Decay
« Reply #42 on: June 09, 2013, 08:02:47 AM »
Yeah found out about the Big Uns yesterday.  My strategy for Freak zombies (Ferals, Big Uns) is to literally just drive over their sorry asses.

I do so much upkeep that I'm having a hard time doing the "story" missions or getting to explore. 

Shit is rough and you have to make a million small decisions which I love, but I just wish there were some breathing room now and then.

edit: oh god i just signed in and i have half of my morale and little to no ammo.  :(  dammit game
« Last Edit: June 09, 2013, 08:05:55 AM by Eric P »
Tonya

Stoney Mason

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Re: State of Decay
« Reply #43 on: June 09, 2013, 08:06:24 AM »
What's brutal of course and ratchets up the tension is there being no save slots. So when you come into a new mission for the first time, You have no idea how brutal or not things are going to be. The permanence of everything is what really drives the game.

Eric P

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Re: State of Decay
« Reply #44 on: June 09, 2013, 08:55:37 AM »
oh thank god.  My main, Marcus, has been missing for two game days and he just suddenly reappeared at Home.

edit: too chaotic.  too many events and i can't do the upkeep missions and advance the story.  morale is low and i have had two people die "off camera" without being sent on missions or having had zombies attack home.
« Last Edit: June 09, 2013, 12:33:46 PM by Eric P »
Tonya

Eel O'Brian

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Re: State of Decay
« Reply #45 on: June 09, 2013, 04:55:18 PM »
I absolutely do not like the fact that this plays itself when you're not on. I hadn't been able to play since Friday, and my base was a mess. Piss on this game if they don't patch in the option to turn that shit off.
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chronovore

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Re: State of Decay
« Reply #46 on: June 09, 2013, 05:48:50 PM »

chronovore

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Re: State of Decay
« Reply #47 on: June 09, 2013, 08:04:23 PM »
I absolutely do not like the fact that this plays itself when you're not on. I hadn't been able to play since Friday, and my base was a mess. Piss on this game if they don't patch in the option to turn that shit off.

Left the game with full Morale, assloads of just-attained ammo, and the dawning of a new day, so I can adventure with glorious sunlight. (insert PRAISE THE SUN here)

Went to bed IRL, got up early, booted the game, and I'm missing most of my ammo, my food is oversupplied (Garden!) but a survivor is missing, Morale is 30% lower, AND IT'S GODDAMNED NIGHT AGAIN.  :maf

chronovore

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Re: State of Decay
« Reply #48 on: June 09, 2013, 09:14:03 PM »
State of Decay is great except for when it's super fucking frustrating, like when you are in a mission and the game spawns a feral (super fast, super tough zombie) killing one of your buffed up survivors.  so you take a morale hit from the loss of the mission and a morale hit from losing one of your people.

Not only that, but all the experience and time you'd put into that character.

When I lost Marcus, I'd got him up to Fighting 4, Powerhouse 3, Leadership 3, etc.  :'(

Stoney Mason

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Re: State of Decay
« Reply #49 on: June 09, 2013, 09:17:51 PM »
Yeah I don't like the away from game simulation stuff continuing. That just strikes me as unfair and honestly it doesn't even really make sense. I don't care how much you bone me in the game with tough situations and in game dilemmas. But you shouldn't be able to punish me when I stop playing. Or if that is part of the game there should be mechanics I can do, to combat it.

chronovore

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Re: State of Decay
« Reply #50 on: June 09, 2013, 09:34:28 PM »
I'm actually beginning to consider just leaving the game paused; it's not like the simulation continues when the game is paused.

I don't like wasting energy, though.

Eric P

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Re: State of Decay
« Reply #51 on: June 10, 2013, 07:54:07 AM »
well it's called State of Decay, so "things fall apart the center cannot hold" etc etc

I finally went to the "larger" town in the south and it's a goddamn nightmare.  I have trouble staying alive in the starting town w/ the church, so I don't see how characters would survive in that area at all.  Shit is way overrun.

I wish I could pull a partner for the game so that I could have two people doing things.  I've taken to accepting missions which give me a hanger-on and then I use that hanger on to accomplish my own shit first before doing their mission and releasing them.

I haven't played since yesterday afternoon and I was kind of frustrated so I didn't "top off" my morale or supplies.  I'm really concerned about how it's going to look next

edit: i tried the pause trick and my xbox shut down to save energy.  fuck the earth, i've got fake people to fake save!
Tonya

demi

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Re: State of Decay
« Reply #52 on: June 10, 2013, 08:04:37 AM »
You can disable that, I believe.
fat

Eric P

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Re: State of Decay
« Reply #53 on: June 10, 2013, 08:48:21 AM »
probably.  I just thought I was so clever when I did it.
Tonya

chronovore

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Re: State of Decay
« Reply #54 on: June 10, 2013, 10:54:09 AM »
Clever, abusing your wingman like that. I was trying to figure out if survivors could be enlisted, like when you gesture to Homies in Saints Row.

Eel O'Brian

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Re: State of Decay
« Reply #55 on: June 11, 2013, 11:01:19 PM »
Yeah, didn't play for a day or so, bunch of people dead, no food, morale in the shitter. Punish me for not playing your game? Fuck you. I never would have bought this had I known that.
sup

chronovore

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Re: State of Decay
« Reply #56 on: June 12, 2013, 02:50:02 AM »
Well, it's partly because of a bug; the game is including Morale hits for things which aren't even known to your Community, such as Infestations ALL OVER THE MAP, instead of in your local area. That's a bug.

I'd say if there's an actual game design problem, it's that the simulation continues on an arc consistent with where you've left it, which means not being able to quit until you've cleared out the Morale hits, Fear, Anger, and supply stuff. Hell, that could be an hour's worth of maintenance work before you can safely quit for any length of time, and that's inconsiderate.

Then you add to this its problem with monitoring the entire map for "shit that's wrong right now," and it's basically impossible to work around. You should give a new shot, from scratch next week, after verifying the Title Update is available.

My biggest issue is actually the fact that, out of the dozen times I've turned it on to play, it always seems to start at night. Playing in the night is really, really difficult. There's no gamma adjustment in Options, and my TV is pretty dark. It's exciting, sure, but the permadeath in this game means I'm doing unintentional Kegel exercises everytime the in-game sun sets. I have to remember to unclench.

And usually, about the moment when the sun comes up, is usually when my kids come home and need help with homework or it's time to eat dinner, or something along those lines. The game lets you decline Trade missions where some dumbass survivor wants to trade something I've got in SHORT supply for something we have in PLENTY. "That's a bad idea!" -25 Influence, though it should be obvious.

Anyway, I'd love to be able to pay a small Influence price like that to have my Community skip running around in darkness and just, you know, HOLE UP FOR THE EVENING, like any actual zombacolypse community would do.

Eel O'Brian

  • Southern Permasexual
  • Senior Member
Re: State of Decay
« Reply #57 on: June 12, 2013, 05:14:12 PM »
Lost Marcus when a feral sprang out of nowhere and ran me down.  Three blocks from home. I give up. It's just not for me. Difficulty wouldn't be such a sore spot if they didn't heap abuse on you when you're offline as well (it's never good news when I come back to it), and with the scant time I get to play games nowadays, I'll never be able to drag my group out of the gutter and feel like I'm making any progress.  Dude on the official forums posted that they weren't ever going to patch in the option to turn that off, either (he was kind of snotty about it, too). Just not enjoying it at all, feels like I'm being punished for not doing my chores every time I turn it on. Oh well, at least I only lost $20.
sup

Steve Contra

  • Bought a lemon tree straight cash
  • Senior Member
Re: State of Decay
« Reply #58 on: June 12, 2013, 05:19:38 PM »
I'm running this shit after a few misteps.  Moved my base to the larger town, morale is doing fine, plenty of supplies.  problem is story missions aren't coming in fast enough.  My trick is I haven't ever used a gun.
vin

Eric P

  • I DESERVE the gold. I will GET the gold!
  • Icon
Re: State of Decay
« Reply #59 on: June 12, 2013, 05:21:59 PM »
Lost Marcus when a feral sprang out of nowhere and ran me down. 

how i lost Maya

:(

RIP maya.

I quit my old save and am trying again with new knowledge of the game.

My trick is I haven't ever used a gun.

guns are HORRIBLE in this game compared to almost any good blunt weapon
Tonya