He-Man MMO Haters Club [no gurlz aloud]

[Great Rumbler]

-No incentive to explore these vast, barren landscapes.
-No worthwhile rewards for doing anything.
-Pay money, get wins.
-No sense of accomplishment tied to anything.
-Packs of respawning enemies dotting the landscape that won't even attack you unless you get close to them.
-Easiest games ever made.
-Do the same thing for 1,000 hours.
-Side quests are awful.
-Impossible to get even the faintest hint of entertainment unless you're playing with a group of people.

Worst genre ever.

[Trent Dole]

[fistfulofmetal]

a miserable pile of secrets


thats a reference to something

[archie4208]

Close the MMO thread
Ban Manabyte
Leper etoilet

[magus]

between hex,solforge,hearthstone and card hunter there is a big cluster of digital online TCG coming out to suppress all of the korean mmo that keeps getting out

too bad all we can play right now is that lame HoMM tcg

[Momo]

While not a true MMO, PSO pretty much wrecks your list.

[thisismyusername]

.

No but really the biggest reason to stay away from MMO's is the subscription fee and the grind. I don't mind playing them and doing the quests and stuff but no way in hell am I paying for your artificial questing.

[etiolate]

Guild Wars 2 = one of the best game for explorers of ALL DE TIME

Your thread is 

[Smooth Groove]

just play Age of Conan instead

[Cerveza mas fina]

Everything has its time and place.

Some of the best game experiences I've ever had are from MMO's.

Don't ever see myself playing one again seriously.

[BobFromPikeCreek]

Zoning and instance are fucking stupid and make every MMO boring as shit and for lamer grind-whores. Only MMO I put time into was Asheron's Call, and that had a cool, open, seamless world almost 15 years ago. Instances suck the fun out of shit and sap the game of any social element.

[Human Snorenado]

Guild Wars 2 = one of the best game for explorers of ALL DE TIME

Your thread is 

Shut the fuck up, Donny.

[etiolate]

I have a strong feeling you'll be playing a next gen console MMO.

That day will be glorious.

[Human Snorenado]

I have a strong feeling you'll be playing a next gen console MMO.

That day will be glorious.

Me?  It would have to be a Fallout mmo.  Which would be on pc as well, so it wouldn't count.

Are you trying to lump D3 in with mmos again?  Jesus, you're obtuse.

[Sho Nuff]

Shittiest genre, only one step above MOBA

[chronovore]

I'd love to love an MMO, but I don't think it can happen. I feel like an endgame is necessary for me to enjoy anything, which is probably a larger statement about how death defines all beauty in life. Or maybe I just need to know when to pack it in and start the next game. 

[Great Rumbler]

Guild Wars 2 = one of the best game for explorers of ALL DE TIME

Your thread is 

[Positive Touch]

While not a true MMO, PSO pretty much wrecks your list.

pso is a weak diablo clone for weeaboos. it is also not a mmo at all. your argument is invalid.

Shittiest genre, only one step above MOBA

mmos are for losers and freaks; mobas are for people that will spend 95% of their lives without physical human contact

[Positive Touch]

.

[Phoenix Dark]

early WoW raids>just about any gaming experience you losers had in the last decade

[chronovore]

I'd like to note that if Class4, the State of Decay MMO sequel, actually comes out, I'll be upgrading my PC and joining the horde before you can scream "BRAAAAINSSSS...!"

[archie4208]

Shittiest genre, only one step above MOBA

[Himu]

I disagree with barren and lifeless worlds. WoW has a beautiful world full of rich lore and a cool story that continues Warcraft 3's story. I also disagree with the opinion that mmo's aren't rewarding. If they weren't, they would have become popular in the first place. What is the difference between gaining the ability to be able to ride mounts at level 30 in WoW and the difference between getting a new mount in Skyrim? I can't think of any except WoW is more rewarding.

What mmos have you played, Rumbler? For a wrpg geek to talk about mmo's not being rewarding - that's fucking hilarious.

[Himu]

Also, the easiest genre? Um.

[brob]

never played mmo. they all look stupid and dull. except for EVE, which looks terrifying and dull.

[Himu]

Yup. What Oscar said. It is part of the reason Rumbler's complaint that mmo's aren't rewarding or have a sense of accomplishment hilarious. THOSE ARE TWO REASONS PEOPLE KEEP COMING BACK. It is the very basis of the mmo hook: to get x level to unlock y ability or quest. To do x quest to get y item. To go to x location to do new things. Mmos are addictive and manipulating because there is always a goal.

The fact they're so manipulative and based around addictions to keep you coming back is a far more damning critique of mmo's than anything else mentioned in this thread, I think.

[Rufus]

WoW didn't just continue the Warcraft III storyline, it convoluted it, killed off every major player, and singlehandedly assured that the story of Warcraft IV would make no sense.

Then again, there will probably never be a Warcraft IV (Image removed from quote.)

Metzen gonna Metzen.

[Himu]

I like base game WoW story. Like being able to be an undead and then raid on human villages. That's perfect Warcraft fan service right there. But when you get to the expansions...lol.

[Don Flamenco]

MMOs are like Doritos Dinamitas...I have every reason to hate them because they run completely contrary to my taste, but every once in a while I turn off my brain and experience them for hours.

[Great Rumbler]

What mmos have you played, Rumbler?

Old Republic, TERA, Guild Wars, Dungeons & Dragons Online, Lord of the Rings Online, Neverwinter, DC Universe Online, Free Realms, Aika Online, APB: Reloaded, Wizardry Online, Defiance, Dragon's Prophet, Fallen Earth, Jade Dynasty, Atlantica Online, Vindictus, RaiderZ, and probably a few others that I can't be bothered to remember.

All MMOs suck and have absolutely nothing that I, as a WRPG geek, care about in a game. In other words, MMO "rewards" don't interest me in the slightest.

[magus]

What mmos have you played, Rumbler?

Old Republic, TERA, Guild Wars, Dungeons & Dragons Online, Lord of the Rings Online, Neverwinter, DC Universe Online, Free Realms, Aika Online, APB: Reloaded, Wizardry Online, Defiance, Dragon's Prophet, Fallen Earth, Jade Dynasty, Atlantica Online, Vindictus, RaiderZ, and probably a few others that I can't be bothered to remember.

All MMOs suck and have absolutely nothing that I, as a WRPG geek, care about in a game.

can we include games that aren't MMO but play like one like xenoblade and FFXII in the mix?

[Himu]

I dunno. I think the rewards in mmo's are fine to me. And half of your complaints (such as combat, barren worlds;etc) can be tied to wrpgs like KOTOR, Fallout 3, even Skyrim.

The only time you ever get into a combat situation is if you get close. You listed that very thing in your rant against mmo's.

I'm gong to guess that the main thing that you get from wrpgs is story. Because I get the same enjoyment and feeling from mmo's as I do wrpgs.

[Himu]

Help me understand Rumbler!

How is this gameplay any different from your bulletpoints on why mmo's suck?

[brob]

jesus rumbler, why have you played so many mmos

have some self-respect

[Phoenix Dark]

whatever Esch. I killed the Lich King, feels good man. WC IV can eat a dick

besides, Blizzard is so focused on StarCraft right now I doubt we'll see a new WarCraft anytime soon.

[Himu]

Warcraft as an rts series is probably dead.

[brob]

why would Blizzard make a warcraft game? warcraft spun off into WOW(narrative) and DOTA(gameplay). A new Warcraft would be seen as a regression, a fantasy starcraft with MOBA-lite elements.

[magus]

that reminds me... is this true?

#5. The Top 5 Warcraft Characters Are All the Same Person

World of Warcraft is designed to be a never-ending quest. There are 1,797 achievements in the game, and each of them requires hours, sometimes weeks to obtain. It takes such a monumental time investment that by the time you get past 1,000, your body medically replaces your sex organs with cup holders. It's why, in Mandarin, "World of Warcraft" translates to "The People's Fun and Noble Plan for Sterilize Youth."

One player not only managed to get 1,954 achievements (157 more than the maximum), but did so with five different characters: Ataxius, Ataxas, Ataxus, Ataxxus, and Ataxa. They each have an identical set of achievements because of an absurd computer game delivery system known as multiboxing. Multiboxing is where you use several computers simultaneously to trick the game into thinking you're five different people. It's similar to another trick you might try as a hardcore gamer -- convincing Pizza Hut you're an entire soccer team.

http://www.cracked.com/blog/the-5-most-insane-things-ever-accomplished-in-video-game/

[archie4208]

Warcraft 4 will get made...




...in the Dota 2 map editor. 

[Trent Dole]

MMOs are horrible life-ruining things.  While there are worse examples now, MMOs are where "design by psychologist to create a trap to milk maximum revenues" games got their start.  If you are playing one, you are addicted to a drug.

[Great Rumbler]

Help me understand Rumbler!

How is this gameplay any different from your bulletpoints on why mmo's suck?

By being a single-player experience designed to be played by one player character and one player character only. Monsters don't constantly respawn every two seconds, I don't have to for some herbs to respawn [because someone else picked them ten seconds ago] so that I can resolve some dull-as-dishwater quest that I didn't even bother to read because it wasn't interesting in the slightest, actually making me feel like the game is my own personal story, having interaction between my character and well-written [your mileage may vary] non-player characters, not making me pay money for cool items, allowing my character to have a real impact on the game. Lots of reasons.

By not being an MMO, if you want a simple explanation. Kotor is a bit of bad example, though, since I wouldn't really hold it up as some pinnacle of single-player RPG gaming. And the second game is better, anyway.

Listen, I made this game because I despise MMOs and I want to say so in thread where MMO lovers will not be bothered. I didn't post this thread for MMO lovers to help me seen the light. There's no light to see. I've played tons of MMOs. The MMO style is loathsome in my sight and I want nothing to do with it.

[Damian79]

MMO's suck because of MMO fanboys, especially WoW fanboys.  Think about it.

[Great Rumbler]

MMO's suck because of MMO fanboys, especially WoW fanboys.  Think about it.

MMOs suck because they are MMOs.

[etiolate]

MMOs are horrible life-ruining things.  While there are worse examples now, MMOs are where "design by psychologist to create a trap to milk maximum revenues" games got their start.  If you are playing one, you are addicted to a drug.

Which is why I don't get Rumbler's take that MMOs offer no reward or accomplishment. The Skinner Box is all about offering constant rewards and a sense of accomplishment. That's the entire issue with MMOs and MMO players. They constantly reward the players and the players have no idea of what to do without there being some shiny reward at the end. WoW warped an entire generation with this stuff.

"Why should I play this?" BECAUSE IT'S FUN YOU ARSE-SUCKER.

[Human Snorenado]

MMOs are horrible life-ruining things.  While there are worse examples now, MMOs are where "design by psychologist to create a trap to milk maximum revenues" games got their start.  If you are playing one, you are addicted to a drug.

Which is why I don't get Rumbler's take that MMOs offer no reward or accomplishment. The Skinner Box is all about offering constant rewards and a sense of accomplishment. That's the entire issue with MMOs and MMO players. They constantly reward the players and the players have no idea of what to do without there being some shiny reward at the end. WoW warped an entire generation with this stuff.

"Why should I play this?" BECAUSE IT'S FUN YOU ARSE-SUCKER.

I think you're confusing "fun" with "shit" but given your history that's entirely understandable.

Also, Rumbler spitting HOT TROOF up in hurr

[Human Snorenado]

PD, I think you put mmos on a pedestal because it was some of your formative gaming experience.  Like, I gave D3 shit tons of passes for D2 nostalgia... it wasn't a BAD game per se (and after everything's said and done might be a really good one) but it was no LoD.

[Damian79]

MMO's suck because of MMO fanboys, especially WoW fanboys.  Think about it.

MMOs suck because they are MMOs.

So you dont think the whole "they should make it exactly like wow" thing a detriment to mmos and their design?  Would you hate a MMO game with the design principles of Xenoblade Chronicles for example?  I wouldnt.

[Himu]

Rumbler you assume that because I don't understand your hate for mmo's with your reasons listed that I'm an mmo lover. You would be incorrect. I don't play mmo's because I don't NEED to. Wrpgs offer me everything I like about mmo's (large expansive worlds, lots of quests, lots of loot) without the bullshit. The last mmo I played was WoW - YEARS ago. Clearly I'm not an mmo lover and given that you've played more mmo's than seemingly everyone in this thread combined I'm even more confused.

That said your reply on why you'd like KOTOR () but don't like mmo's is enough to get me on the mmo hate train.

[Damian79]

^I agree with Oscar.  An MMO doesnt need to go forever.  There should really be an end point.

[Trent Dole]

There is. It's called the servers going offline.

[Himu]

That's a pretty bad ending. I think I'll stick with games that end, thanks.

[Phoenix Dark]

Actually I think one of WoW's biggest problems recently has been that it did provide an "end" for many hardcore players - the death of the Lich King/Arthas. There are some big bads left for them to mine, but the problem is none of them really compare to Arthas in most people's eyes. Many players, regardless of whether they were hardcore raiders or not, spent years playing with a general anticipation of defeating him.

The last two expansions have felt quite trivial when compared to WOTLK and TBC. Deathwing was supposed to be a "big" event but it kind of came and went

[Damian79]

SMFH(shake my fucking head)

[etiolate]

MMOs are horrible life-ruining things.  While there are worse examples now, MMOs are where "design by psychologist to create a trap to milk maximum revenues" games got their start.  If you are playing one, you are addicted to a drug.

Which is why I don't get Rumbler's take that MMOs offer no reward or accomplishment. The Skinner Box is all about offering constant rewards and a sense of accomplishment. That's the entire issue with MMOs and MMO players. They constantly reward the players and the players have no idea of what to do without there being some shiny reward at the end. WoW warped an entire generation with this stuff.

"Why should I play this?" BECAUSE IT'S FUN YOU ARSE-SUCKER.

I think you're confusing "fun" with "shit" but given your history that's entirely understandable.

Also, Rumbler spitting HOT TROOF up in hurr

I was talking about MMO players not you but OKAY

Also, you'll end up in some game like Destiny. muwhaha

[etiolate]

MMOs have a fundamental problem.  A well-designed game with few exceptions ends at some point.  A profitable MMO should never end.  Therefore, an MMO is always going to be designed to keep stringing the player along, never providing a satisfying conclusion.  It's like edging forever without release.  Feels kind of awesome in the short term, but in the long term you just have blue balls and bitterness.

Many successful games offer no end. People played GTA3 for hours on end with no intent to finish the story. Animal Crossing has no end to it. Competitive games have no end to them.

There's really nothing inherently wrong with MMOs. There's been bad behavior manipulation in the genre due to the monetization, but there is nothing inherently diseased about a persistent virtual world filled with activities and other players.

[chronovore]

Help me understand Rumbler!

How is this gameplay any different from your bulletpoints on why mmo's suck?

It depends on how you define gameplay. In my case, gameplay requires an end state. At some point it can be finished. KOTOR can be finished, which makes it inherently different than an MMO.

[Olivia Wilde Homo]

I had a friend who dropped out of school to play more Everquest.  He thought he'd be raking in thousands of dollars a month because he once sold a character for a few hundred dollars.

He now kills bugs for a living.

That is my only experience with an MMO.

[Great Rumbler]

Clearly I'm not an mmo lover and given that you've played more mmo's than seemingly everyone in this thread combined I'm even more confused.

It's not like I put hundreds of hours into those MMOs, by the way. I just downloaded them because I was bored and they were free, played for a few hours, and then deleted them because I quickly remembered why I hate MMOs.

MMOs have a fundamental problem.  A well-designed game with few exceptions ends at some point.  A profitable MMO should never end.  Therefore, an MMO is always going to be designed to keep stringing the player along, never providing a satisfying conclusion.  It's like edging forever without release.  Feels kind of awesome in the short term, but in the long term you just have blue balls and bitterness.

This is something that I didn't mention in the OP, but should have. I like the satisfaction of getting to the conclusion of a story, or even at least knowing that there is a conclusion waiting for me.

Not that the conclusion is everything. I really enjoy games like Simcity and The Sims, which have no end-game at all either, but those games don't have a lot of the other problems I have with MMOs.

[Don Flamenco]

I had a friend who dropped out of school to play more Everquest.  He thought he'd be raking in thousands of dollars a month because he once sold a character for a few hundred dollars.

He now kills bugs for a living.

That is my only experience with an MMO.

so he still plays MMOs for a living, but in the real world.  His life is like the first 10 quests in any MMO over and over again. 

[Himu]

Help me understand Rumbler!

How is this gameplay any different from your bulletpoints on why mmo's suck?

It depends on how you define gameplay. In my case, gameplay requires an end state. At some point it can be finished. KOTOR can be finished, which makes it inherently different than an MMO.

Yeah, Oscar brought this up and I totally agree with it. I can understand that. Rumbler offered a very succinct post on why he'd like KOTOR despite the similarities to mmo's.