Topic

[Eel O'Brian]

i mean, he'll use his supernatural powers of boy scout preparedness to coat his fists with kryptonite dust and do the civilian bomb thing or whatever because he's so paranoid superman might thump him, but he won't just cut off the joker's hands and feet

i think he wants to fuck the joker worse than joker wants to fuck him

it's the lipstick, gotta be

[Mandark]

I always thought Superman would be more appealing if he had been born really really fucking stupid. Like not an actual distinguished mentally-challenged fellow, but about as smart as drew.

The no guns policy would definitely cause some friction between Bats and Drewperman.

[Eel O'Brian]

basically fuck batman, nowadays he's a more ridiculous character than that superhorse they used to have flying around

[Eel O'Brian]

who is the ted mcginley of the xmen

[Eel O'Brian]

Cannonball = Chachi?

[Eel O'Brian]

Moira MacTaggert = Mrs. C

[Mandark]

i mean, he'll use his supernatural powers of boy scout preparedness to coat his fists with kryptonite dust and do the civilian bomb thing or whatever because he's so paranoid superman might thump him, but he won't just cut off the joker's hands and feet

I might not even call that cheating.  Batman's superpowers are his paranoia, obsessive-compulsive tendencies, and his giant trust fund.  Taking those away would be like taking away the Earth's yellow Sun from Supes, unless they've changed that too.

I know what has and what hasn't happened, but I think it's okay to give my take on what happened, how it happened, and whether or not it stretches plausibility within the rules of the fiction. That alright with you?

Well sure!  Though calling out a particular movie/comic/whatever for being internally consistent is a bit different from the old Who Would Win game.

I mean, your points about mixing heroes with different power levels and Batman doing fine with street-level adventures are well-taken.  But that first post about how you just can't take people seriously when they make the wrong bet on Hypothetical Superhero MMA?  C'mon now.

[Himu]

I didn't watch Happy Days growing up.

[Momo]

Nobody wants to see that kind of Thor in a movie, Momo. Literally nobody except maybe the most hardcore comic stans.

Oh, it would be a shitty Green Ranger candle-esq movie indeed. The point i was faffing around is, people who accept that kind of stuff really have no business criticizing Batman vs Superman, you guys are the folk who enable stuff like this. For the record I think both (physical) fights are bullshit

Do you not see the vast difference between these scenarios?

In one, you'd have an unaugmented human being physically defeating a man who can fly, lift jumbo-jets, and shrug off direct hits from missiles.

In the other, you have a guy in a super-powerful robot suit whose strength is never really quantified holding his own against a guy with super-advanced alien armor and weaponry whose strength is also never really quantified.

Batman physically holding his own against Superman without the help of Kryptonite or some mechanized armor suit is stupid, because there's no conceivable way that they could be physical equals. Iron Man physically holding his own against Thor is perfectly fine in this movie-verse, because it's easy to conceive of them as being equals.

You sound like a goddamn special fellow carrying on like this.

Whatever you want to say to justify things you like I guess

[Eel O'Brian]

also we have to find analogues for (and these count since they were crossover characters):

Laverne and Shirley
Mork from Ork

and if we're doing Laverne & Shirley, we have to do Lenny and Squiggy and the rest of the cast of that show, since they are a part of the shared Happy Days/Laverne & Shirley Universe much like X-Men and X-factor

The Big Ragu = Longshot

[Mandark]

and if we're doing Laverne & Shirley, we have to do Lenny and Squiggy and the rest of the cast of that show, since they are a part of the shared Happy Days/Laverne & Shirley Universe much like X-Men and X-factor

http://www.slushfactory.com/content/EpupypyZAZTDOLwdfz.php

[Himu]

leave x-factor out of this

[Tasty]

I didn't watch Happy Days growing up.

Poor child.

What about Brady Bunch?

[Himu]

Of course.

I'm still waiting for that cbs Brady Bunch reboot. Hopefully it has no laugh track and is more in line with the movies.

[Momo]

I hope they do a decent rendition of Wonder Woman

[Tasty]

Of course.

I'm still waiting for that cbs Brady Bunch reboot. Hopefully it has no laugh track and is more in line with the movies.

Brady Bunch

Brady movies

Hey Jan, let's go knock over a 7 Eleven.

[Momo]

I'd like a Prince Valiant reboot done in the style of Vagabond. It's nice to want things that wont happen

[Himu]

Of course.

I'm still waiting for that cbs Brady Bunch reboot. Hopefully it has no laugh track and is more in line with the movies.

Brady Bunch

Brady movies

Hey Jan, let's go knock over a 7 Eleven.

[Himu]

Holy shit, Vince Vaughn is doing the new Brady Bunch series? Not sure if good or bad.

Fucking hell, the new Brady Bunch is multi-camera. GODDAMIT.

[Tasty]

Of course.

I'm still waiting for that cbs Brady Bunch reboot. Hopefully it has no laugh track and is more in line with the movies.

Brady Bunch

Brady movies

Hey Jan, let's go knock over a 7 Eleven.

[Tasty]

Holy shit, Vince Vaughn is doing the new Brady Bunch series? Not sure if good or bad.

Fucking hell, the new Brady Bunch is multi-camera. GODDAMIT.

I didn't even know they were making a new one.

[Himu]

Jane > Marsha

Goddamit, why did the new series have to multi-cam. Fucking GOD DAMMIT. I bet it won't be anything like the movies either.

[Yeti]

Jan is a whiny bitch, even with all the prep time and kryptonite in the world she couldn't take out Marsha.

[Tasty]

Jan is a whiny bitch, even with all the prep time and kryptonite in the world she couldn't take out Marsha.

All it takes is one football to the shnoz and Marsha's out of commission faster than you can say Darkseid.

[hampster]

They'll make anything to avoid making a Batman Beyond movie :'(

[Tasty]

It’s official that we are going to make another Superman movie. And you say, Zack, what is the movie about? But you don’t want me to tell you that. You want to go and see the movie. But I can say that maybe there’s a single element that will be in the film that I could… help you out with. I was thinking about how to do that. I pored through the DC Universe to look for a way to tell this thing. We’re writing the thing now, but I came across a thing I found that’ll help you understand it.

And then Harry Lennix read this line, from Frank Miller’s The Dark Knight Returns: “I want you to remember, Clark, in all the years to come, in all your most private moments, I want you to remember your hand at your throat. I want you to remember the one man who beat you.” That’s Batman speaking to Superman from the end of Miller’s story, and that quote blew the roof off Hall H.

Snyder said “we’re not adapting this thing, but it is the thing that will help us tell that story.” So while the logo he showed on screen, pictured above, uses the bat logo design from Miller’s work, this won’t quite be a direct adaptation.

"thing"

GRAET RITING

[Tasty]

Calling Batman a thing is a good start for this movie.

Could replace it with "gimmick" and it wouldn't be out of place.

[Himu]

I was speaking of looks. Jane > Marsha

[Mupepe]

He has to be trolling

[Himu]

liquidsnake is gay, so probably not

[Mupepe]

I loved TDKR, but that dude is nuts.  NUTS. 

[Himu]

[Tasty]

BB was toooooooons of fun.

Then TDK became a gritty crime drama.

[Phoenix Dark]

TDKR is a legit meh movie, no shame in admitting it fellas.

TDK was great, and I found it to be pretty damn fun despite the gloomy tone.

[Human Snorenado]

I must have missed the memo where all super hero movies had to be happy fun time

[Mandark]

I think the lesson from that is more "make better movies" than "be less grimdark."  There have been plenty of lighthearted superhero movies and it's not like they're immune to sucking hard.

[Mandark]

I get that perspective; it's a unique kind of annoying.  But I'd be lying if I said I actually had any fun watching The Fantastic Four or Transformers.

[Himu]

I don't really care either way if a movie is serious or lighthearted so as I find it enjoyable, and as flawed as the Batman trilogy was in regards to communicating ideas about freedom and other shit, they were ultimately high quality super hero films.

[Mandark]

I saw Transformers in the theatre as a social thing.  The only point where I had any hope was when John Turturro showed up.  "Well, I always like this guy, no matter what movie he's in!"  Then they had a giant robot whizz on him.

 

[Human Snorenado]

I don't really care either way if a movie is serious or lighthearted so as I find it enjoyable, and as flawed as the Batman trilogy was in regards to communicating ideas about freedom and other shit, they were ultimately high quality super hero films.

I'm with Himuro here.  I can get where Nolan's movies might not be someone's cup of tea though, but whatever.  As long as you're not gonna go on a Jarosh/Cloudwalking troll spree, we cool.

[Mandark]

My problem with these discussions is that they inevitably turn into Team Grimdark vs. Team Cereal Mascot.  Which I think happens because so many nerds yearned for some gritty comic book movies (especially for Batman), and a lot of them put even more importance on the tone because having an "adult" movie wouldn't just match their tastes, but validate their hobby by showing it wasn't for kids.  So now we've had several somewhat mopey/growley superhero flicks and there's a backlash.

But as an argument it bogs down into the usual tiresome internet stuff so goddamn quickly.  Especially when there are always plenty of interesting things to waste time talking about, even when the movies themselves are not so great.

[Himu]

I don't really care either way if a movie is serious or lighthearted so as I find it enjoyable, and as flawed as the Batman trilogy was in regards to communicating ideas about freedom and other shit, they were ultimately high quality super hero films.

I agree with your premise, I just didn't find TDKR enjoyable.  Dark Knight, sure.  Batman Begins, sure.  TDKR just wasn't up to snuff plotwise, character-wise, and it took itself dreadfully seriously.  There was no enjoyment in it for me, just watching the clock and waiting for the insufferable thing to lurch to a conclusion.

CoG: Yeah, I largely keep it to myself.  I know other people dig them, and in spite of what some might think, I don't actively enjoy pissing on people's fun.  I mean, except on weekends.  And bank holidays.

I can completely understand why someone would find TDKR flying a bit too close to the sun. It is pretentious. I'm not sure how anyone who enjoys the film could argue it's not.

[Mandark]

Hell, I only really have patience for benjipwns these days, and he's buggered off God knows where.  I've just lost the thrill of forum thrust-and-parry.  It's a young man's game.

* Bequeaths his arguing hat to anyone but PD.

[Himu]

For what it's worth, I love Rises wholly for its "rise" arc. I am a sucker for "the hero falls and has to save himself from the darkness" stories and I think TDKR nailed it. So there's that.

[fistfulofmetal]

TDKR is a success because the title ends up being about JGL's rise to become Batman! He literally rises at the end of the movie! THE DARK KNIGHT RISES

IT'S BRILLIANT.

[Himu]

[Mandark]

I think a big part of why the pacing was so off and the movie felt bloated was that they packed in too much big life turning points for Bruce Wayne.  He's gone into retirement as Batman!  But now he's back to catch a sexy thief!  But now he's crippled!  But now he's dragging himself back up again!

One of the benefits of having already done an origin story is that you can hit the ground running, like they did with TDK.  Giving the hero a big motivational breakthrough at the beginning and again in the middle of the movie is probably not going to be a good idea.

[Phoenix Dark]

TDKR is a success because the title ends up being about JGL's rise to become Batman! He literally rises at the end of the movie! THE DARK KNIGHT RISES

IT'S BRILLIANT.

It's so poetic it rhymes

[fistfulofmetal]

On a whole TDKR is a superior film to me because there's an actual arc to Batman's character. In TDK he doesn't really struggle with anything and at the end he's the same as when he started. TDK is pretty much anchored by Heath's performance for the most part, it lacks in most other elements. TDKR is bloated and pretentious, yes, but it also has a better told story with actual themes that are represented in different ways throughout.

And again, the ending. I'm not trolling. When JGL stepped on that pedestal and it started to RISE I was floored.

[Great Rumbler]

They should just make some more Batman TAS.

[Human Snorenado]

I personally would rank the movies TDK>BB>TDKR.  Maybe BB and TDKR are about the same, I dunno.  Full disclosure: the Batmen/Xmen comics were what I primarily read as a kid, so I've always had a soft spot for the film adaptations.  Especially since the whole Bane/Azrael arc happened during my last two years of high school. 

And yeah, I'm totally and unabashedly on Team Grimdark, and no fucks are given.  I know lots of other people like comics for different reasons and enjoy reading lighthearted blah blah blah whatever, but I never got into that.  Yes, I watched the 60's Batman tv series as a kid and enjoyed it, but didn't love it.  I like comedy and shit like that fine, but not with my superheroes, kthxplzbye.

[Mandark]

Batman TAS actually had a mandate from Fox to lighten up a bit, after which the episodes became more colorful and Robin-heavy.  So that debate's been going on at least 20 years.

The DCAU is the main reason I think a Batman-Superman movie could potentially be very good, but I haven't seen Man of Steel yet.  An angsty, alienated Superman wouldn't be the natural foil to Batman that slightly pompous, boy scout Superman is.

[Tasty]

Keep in mind Oscar has said in the past that Batman to him is the one from the 40's/OG comics, so it's kind of a different viewpoint from anyone raised post-TDK Returns/Batman 89/TAS. When my father thinks of Batman, 90% of it is the Adam West TV show.

Rises has tons of problems, but one I feel has been overplayed is the whole "Batman isn't Batman!" in it. Like people say Batman taking 8 years off is a contradiction of the character. Batman retired in TDK Returns and Batman Beyond, and it was a central part of Mask of the Phantasm and several comic arcs. The problem is they kinda bungled the writing and made the reason 100% Rachel's death instead of a heavier or more believable angle.

Still, it was damn cool seeing bits of No Man's Land, Knightfall, and TDK Returns in a big budget Batman movie. Goyer knows his comics, I just wish they wouldn't let him near the scripts.

BB>TDK>TDKR

[Mandark]

I think I said in the original TDKR thread that Bruce Wayne makes a lot more sense in that movie if you think of him as a sort of emo trust funder.  His relationship with Rachel objectively wasn't a romance for the ages, but he wants it to be and can prove it to himself by being a full-time mourner for the better part of a decade.  I don't think that's the intent, but I do think it's more coherent that way.

Plus, ostentatiously disproportional reactions to traumatic losses are right in his wheelhouse.

[Tasty]

It's a bit more justifiable if you buy the "Rachel was the way out for Batman" angle definitively. But it's still kinda weak. Plus as mentioned, it dicks the story over to have Batman crippled and out of action, come back, then basically go right back to being crippled and out of action.

[Mandark]

My reading is she wasn't his way out, but he builds her up as that posthumously.  Waiting for a woman to "save" you is the favorite pastime of the self-romanticizing manchild.

I realize I'm basically making a case for Batman as a Zach Braff character, but for TDKR it totally fits.




PS Triumph had the correct rankings.

[Himu]

i don't understand how anyone can put BB over TDK.

TDK > BB > TDKR easily

[Great Rumbler]

The only real problem with BB is that Katie Holmes was so incredibly annoying.

[Tasty]

i don't understand how anyone can put BB over TDK.

TDK > BB > TDKR easily

First 70% was basically straight Year One except somehow even better, that's how. And Bruce had an actual arc. You have to wait like an hour to even see Batman but when he finally, finally shows up and says "I'm Batman" it's like the best moment in a comic book movie ever.

Plus dat final scene. "Leaves a calling card." "I never thanked you." "And you'll never have to."

[Tasty]

Oh I know, and that's fine. I know Nolantards who won't admit that Batman(1989) or Batman Returns were great movies, even though they most assuredly were and still are.

89 is kinda quaint today but it gets by on Burton's excellent gothic Gotham sensibilities. Not very rewatchable IMO.

Returns I go back and forth on. The "Penguin for Mayor" shit is downright terrible and would be awful in any movie. But the gothic Christmas aesthetic was cool and Catwoman was handled very very well.

And plus, well, Batman kills people. Like straight out. Might as well give him a gun.