Triumph rejoice: WoW is dying (for real this time)

[archie4208]

http://www.businesswire.com/news/home/20130725006767/en/Activision-Blizzard-Announces-Transformative-Purchase-Shares-Vivendi

For the quarter, Activision Blizzard was the #1 independent publisher in North America and Europe combined, including accessory packs and figures, with the #1 and #2 best-selling titles year-to-date– Skylanders Giants™ and Call of Duty: Black Ops II.¹ Additionally, Blizzard Entertainment’s World of Warcraft® remained the world’s #1 subscription-based MMORPG, ending the quarter with approximately 7.7 million subscribers.²

Lost another 600k subscribers in 3 months and down from its peak of 12 million subscribers.

F2P will happen before 2015.

[Cerveza mas fina]

WoW is dying = still number 1, 9 years after launch

 

[brob]

Wasn't blizzard working on a new MMO? Titan? what's up with that? beyond the expected blizzard thing of restarting development a million times behind the scenes...

[Great Rumbler]

Good, MMOs need to die as quickly as possible.

[archie4208]

Wasn't blizzard working on a new MMO? Titan? what's up with that? beyond the expected blizzard thing of restarting development a million times behind the scenes...

Restarting from scratch and delayed until 2016.

[magus]

Good, MMOs need to die as quickly as possible.

so the almighty era of digital TCG can begin

http://hextcg.com/

[Human Snorenado]

I guess it's good that fewer people want to "play" that crap every year, but THE DISEASE IS STILL INSIDE THEM

[Phoenix Dark]

Yup, nearly all my old guild mates moved to LoL.

I'll be back the minute it goes f2p, just to see if that can revive the game. These 5 level expansions aren't doing anything to help the game, all they do is stretch out a slow death.

[etiolate]

And Guild Wars 2 continues to increase in players on the cusp of releasing in China/Asia.

[Tucah]

I just want F2P WoW, I'm back in if that happens.

[Human Snorenado]

And Guild Wars 2 continues to increase in players on the cusp of releasing in China/Asia.

That's like being excited about the spread of herpes or something.  You're just sick in the head.

[Rahxephon91]

I just want F2P WoW, I'm back in if that happens.

Yeah I'll install it, play for 20 mins, and then never play again like every f2p mmo I've tried.

[Steve Contra]

Etiolate has angrily waited 9 long years for WoW to become slightly less popular than it was.  Let him bask in this moment.

[etiolate]

Actually, what is your deal with MMOs Triumph? Is it the people playing them? You should probably transition to MOBA hate since that's where all the MMO rejects and asperfits went.

Is it just the existence of a game where you play with others?

[Great Rumbler]

Is it just the existence of a game where you play with others?

Yes.

[Human Snorenado]

You have to have bothered to play an MMO to be a "reject" 

It's a lot of things.  1, being forced to play with others.  2, the fact that it preys on weak willed, dumb people to make shit tons of money. 3, disgusting stuff like your dumb fucking rabbit creatures in gw makes my rage meter fly off the handle. 4, the fact that you can "play" the games just by crafting and not engaging in combat in any sort of way and that's seen as acceptable.

Probably my biggest motivating factor, though, is that people think that while they're "playing" these games, that they're engaging in social behavior that in any conceivable way can substitute for actually interacting with, you know, people in society.  Boo hoo, "I'm a nerd and people are meeeeeeeean," well tough shit bitches.  Life is tough all over, roll with the fucking punches.

[etiolate]

Asurans are beautiful. You hush your mouth.

[Howard Alan Treesong]

no he's right

those rabbit goblin gnome fucks are creepy

everytime you post a screenshot of one I shudder and thank my lucky stars I don't play Guild Wars 2

[etiolate]

[Howard Alan Treesong]

[D3RANG3D]

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[SantaC]

Good, MMOs need to die as quickly as possible.

this. dont see the charm in spending hours and hours for games that cant end.

[Rahxephon91]

Good, MMOs need to die as quickly as possible.

this. dont see the charm in spending hours and hours for games that cant end.

So they should die because you can't?

I'm not sure whats hard to get about "do stuff in a rpg world with friends and whatnot"

[SantaC]

Good, MMOs need to die as quickly as possible.

this. dont see the charm in spending hours and hours for games that cant end.

So they should die because you can't?

I'm not sure whats hard to get about "do stuff in a rpg world with friends and whatnot"

what's so great about wasting a monthly fee for something that goes on forever.

[Himu]

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[Trent Dole]

Lol, monthly fee. The future for the genre is full f2p with a optional premium for extra shits. The failed Star Wars mmo turned into that iirc and PSO2's had that model in place since launch (a shame its arrival in other regions is taking 5ever).

[Rahxephon91]

Good, MMOs need to die as quickly as possible.

this. dont see the charm in spending hours and hours for games that cant end.

So they should die because you can't?

I'm not sure whats hard to get about "do stuff in a rpg world with friends and whatnot"

what's so great about wasting a monthly fee for something that goes on forever.

Whats so great about spending $60 on games that last 5 hours?

I don't know, but if I'm having fun it won't matter.

I don't really get your argument. Does the fact that the game never ends and you never "beat" it disheartening enough to put you off the game? I guess, but I've never looked at it that way. I don't really care about beating the game, I'm not someone who finds enjoyment in say plantimuing a game. I simply have as much fun as I want with the game and then call it a day. That's really how I look at it. When I got done with an MMO and consider my time with it over it's mostly because I've reached the level cap, got the gear I wanted, and/or done basically all the content I wanted to do. If there's more content to do that's fine, I've probably done all I wanted and got my money worth. So the fact the game didn't end was fine, I beat what I wanted. 

And simply put playing WoW as my first MMO back when it came out was amazing. I was exploring this amazing looking world filled with  lots to see, it really felt like adventure. Sure there were some lame quests, but there were many quests that were pretty cool like any quest driven rpg. Doing quests or dungeons was exciting and fun, I don't think I've had more fun with a "co-op" experience then going through a dungeon with people I'm friends with or just random people.

And all those things I liked about WoW have been the other MMOs I've played and no I've never "beaten" them. I didn't even get close to beating WoW. I did'nt care about having a "job" in a guild and once I was satisfied with how much content I had seen, I was done and I had a pretty amazing experience. I liked being in this world and interacting with other players to do shit.

Paying a monthly fee sucks, but it's not like every mmo has it now. The repetitive combat can suck, but mmo's are making strides there to. I don't get why MMO's suck so much, espicailly when the genre has a lot of potential.

[Howard Alan Treesong]

does your character suffer from some magickal affliction that makes him appear hideous or does the game just look like that

cool Seifer cosplay tho

[etiolate]

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[D3RANG3D]

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[Phoenix Dark]

I've played enough vidyagamez with Triumph to know he'd love WoW - or would have, if he played 5-7 years ago. He can huff and puff all he wants but I'm 100% certain he would have been balls deep in Karazhan, Naxx, or hard mode Ulduar.

 

[Freyj]

Mists was considerably better than Cata (and the later part of Wrath), but it had to happen eventually.

Here's hoping EQ Next actually pans out. I haven't really felt "connected" to an MMO since Ulduar.

[Phoenix Dark]

Mists was damn good but I still lost all interest in it shortly before hitting raid status. To me WoW is a social game, and most of my friends have been gone since the final (dead) months of WOTLK. I probably completely burnt myself out during that expansion, from Naxx to hard mode Ulduar to the Crusades.

[Freyj]

It's still possible to find decent people in WoW, it's just a lot more difficult.

I dunno, a lot of the people I played with in Beta / Vanilla were god damned terrible at the game, but I enjoyed their company. Now I just play with 1 or 2 real life acquaintances and lose interest after a month or so.

[Cerveza mas fina]

It doesnt help that you have all this cross server crap now from a community point of view

[etiolate]

The cross-realm/virtual realm stuff is to keep the community going though. It's basically server merging without the bad publicity. There are way too many servers for the population they now have. Out of that 7.7 million number, you have about 60% of that which is in Asia. You take that 3 or so million western audience and split it between Europe and America, and then split it by server, of which there are 200+ servers in America alone. That's spreading everyone too thin. People are bailing on the dying servers for the top five servers in population. Blizz had to do something.

[Phoenix Dark]

god dammit... *pulls out pipe, puts feet on computer desk*

Nothing was better than logging into my account and getting multiple whispers from folks asking me to tank something. Likewise when I saw a badass healer log in I'd whisper "hey wanna heal x?" Pretty soon you knew enough folks on the server to recognize who was good, who was bad, who was making progress, which guild was failing, who left which guild, etc. I could ask in chat who wanted to do an instance at 2AM and get a ton of responses because people knew I was a damn good tank, and our run would be smooth as fuck/no drama.

Now it's all cues. Sure I love the idea of being able to do an instance whenever I want, without having to wait hours for people to respond...but those ques helped kill server identity. I'd love to see more focus on doing shit with people on your own damn server. Do as many ques as you want...but awarding people for creating groups or raids that are all from your server would definitely help.

I remember when your server actually meant something. Being the top raid guild, or aiming to become the top raid guild, felt like awesome. I never was a pvp guy but would do some just to help out the Alliance. I knew some Horde members by name, to the point where if I heard they were in a Alterac Valley I'd que up just to face. Shit was real yo.

TLDR: I say this shit in every WoW thread

[etiolate]

Yeah, but if you don't put in that sort of LFX tool into your MMO then people complain. There's got to be a good balance between the automated version that WoW has and simply having nothing but general chat spam. A LFG tool is no different in concept than spamming LFG in chat, it's just more quietly efficient.

I still prefer doing guild runs or friend runs only.

[Cerveza mas fina]

Lfx is a crutch as you said etiolate.

It creates a forgetable experience and destroys social interaction.

In Vanilla and Tbc it seemed like i knew so many players of both sides by name, and they knew me. Awesome stuff. There were hated guilds and crappy players you avoided. Basically everything PD said but i was a healer

[Phoenix Dark]

LFx is fine, I just wish there was an option that encourages you to play with people on your server. More justice points for groups with at least 4 people from the same server, for instance, or more XP.

I remember competing with other tanks for spots in raids, before I joined a raid guild. Every week felt like a hard fought contest where you tried to do as many instances as possible, preferably with people from top guilds. And by Wed or Thurs you'd get that anticipated whisper. "Hey, x recommended you. Wanna be off tank for our 25 man raid tonight?" Bam. And later when I was established and in a position to invite people to raids, I'd recommend folks who I had good experiences with, giving them a shot.

One of the best times to make your mark was during those daily instance runs. The new one would be announced at like 2AM or 3AM, don't remember, and everyone would be online to do it right quick. I'd almost always get in a badass group for it, get my justice points, and head to bed; it was my ritual for ages lol. Sometimes I'd get on too late to join a good group, and be stuck with scrubs...but even that was fun.

[etiolate]

Lfx is a crutch as you said etiolate.

It creates a forgetable experience and destroys social interaction.

In Vanilla and Tbc it seemed like i knew so many players of both sides by name, and they knew me. Awesome stuff. There were hated guilds and crappy players you avoided. Basically everything PD said but i was a healer

uh I didn't say that

I said its an efficient version of LFG chat spam, but that it can get out of hand when it becomes too efficient, or better put too automated.

It gets to a point where people act like if you're talking to your group then it means something has gone wrong because the experience has become so automated for everyone for so long. You log in, click some menus, and proceed through the all too familiar steps of the dungeon encounter. This puts social interaction on the negative side of a very binary view of gaming.

[Human Snorenado]

You guys do realize that you're bitching about "the game" making it easier for you to "play" it as a negative, right?

Pretty much rest my case right there.

[Cerveza mas fina]

 

[Human Snorenado]

Seriously... like, I don't MIND playing games with a few other people.  People I already know and shit.  Early D3 was fun, and later D3 Hellfire ring runs with Contra was some seriously fun shit. 

Playing games to meet people or substitute socializing IRL, tho? 

[Rahxephon91]

It would be easier to have a button that does all the moves for you in street fighter and that would suck.

When I came back to WoW and used the cross realm que features and whatnot, it just took away from the social aspect of the game. And dungeon runs became pretty dry and pointless. People didn't talk and it's not like I'd ever talk to these people again either way.

It also didn't help that it seemed to mess with what the playerbase was doing. I started over from the beginning and basically it didn't seem like anyone was out in the world doing those quests. Everybody leveling a new toon just seemed to be running dungeons over and over again, making for a pretty boring climb. So doing that non dungeon and non end game quest content harder and less desirable.

[Cerveza mas fina]

You're kind of missing the point Triumph, just like drinking beer doesn't mean you're end up a homeless hobo sucking dick for spare change, playing an MMO doesn't mean you will substitute it for real life.

[Human Snorenado]

Sorry, I keep reading "the game has made it easier and more streamlined to PLAY THE GAME and that's a negative"

It's almost like you guys are admitting that playing the game isn't enough to keep, you know, playing the game.

[Cerveza mas fina]

But it's streamlining over an aspect that is integral to the genre and the appeal of an online world. It is making it more of a grind really.

The social aspect, the alliances, the friendships, the feuds, the haggling, the drama, this is all part of an MMO too. If you strip away that you end up with a Diablo+, which for some people is perfect of course.

You simply cannot understand how monumental it was to do 40 man raids, even to get to the point that you can actually go on a raid was an adventure.

[Cerveza mas fina]

I have to say though that if you pick it up now, it wouldn't be the same. You missed that special time where this was IT. The people that play it now play different, the systems are different.

[Human Snorenado]

The more unknown people (because I generally tend not to surround myself with fucktards) you interact with the higher the likelihood of me having to put up with a fucktard.  I don't put up with fucktards well.  What you guys are describing as a positive and a selling point for the genre is PRECISELY WHY I don't like it, in addition to the fact that it preys upon weak willed dimwits and has a recurring fee. (although yes, the future of the genre lies in initial cost/f2p + microtransactions, but whatever)

Like, maybe after a long time I'd be comfortable in a guild of nothing but confirmed, competent badasses, but I highly doubt it would be worth it for me to make the effort.

[Cerveza mas fina]

That's the thing, you could make your own guild. Only let confirmed badasses in that have proven themselves.

[etiolate]

Sorry, I keep reading "the game has made it easier and more streamlined to PLAY THE GAME and that's a negative"

It's almost like you guys are admitting that playing the game isn't enough to keep, you know, playing the game.

There is a strong element of that and it's one of the attitudes that makes me dislike MMO players in general, but there is more to it than that. Since it's a cooperative, social game, but it's full of people with personality disorders and varying levels of autism, the game sort of does need to be careful how it makes players interact with each other. It could be argued these streamlined, automated LFG tools reduced the need for these troublesome sorts of people to have to learn how interact with others in a meaningful way. You also have the factor of MMOs depending highly on their persistent, living world. This is very different from D3 or any lobby dungeon crawler. People need to be out in that persistent world to help make it feel alive. LFD tool turned the game into a lobby dungeon crawler, removing one of the key advantages of the genre itself.

[Human Snorenado]

That's the thing, you could make your own guild. Only let confirmed badasses in that have proven themselves.

Apparently the content alone isn't worth it, though

[etiolate]

I think it's more that it's hard to get access to or do some of the content without others/guild. LFR and LFD are attempts at dealing with this issue that have had mixed results.

[etiolate]

Also, I'm not sure Triumph would like any MMO even if he could avoid the social aspects. The combat of older MMOs is pretty limited, and you don't tear through a ton of mobs like you do in Diablo games. Leveling up, you do one or two mobs at once at the most. Only a select handful of builds can multi-grind and that's only once they get to certain levels.

[Human Snorenado]

Yeah, ew.  I like doing one of two things in arpgs- tossing out a fuckton of dps or crowd control.  Playing a CM wizard in endgame D3 is one of the most fun things ever... simultaneously perma-freezing two bosses, either of which could kill you in 5 seconds flat is fucking awesome.

...shame what they drop is shit tho.   

[Cerveza mas fina]

But there is glorious player versus player combat 

[Human Snorenado]

pvp

[Cerveza mas fina]

Next thing you tell me you also don't like FPS multi

[Human Snorenado]

Nah, not really.  Everyone's either a douche or cheater, what's the point? 

Pretty much the only sort of player on player violence I can get behind is fighting games and, surprisingly, Mario Kart.  That's a nostalgia thing though I think.

The reason Borderlands 2 is so fucking awesome for me is that it's got such a good, meaty pve campaign.