Sony Japan conference

[Tasty]

OLED is nice but it's not a system seller.

3D was? I thought everyone hated 3D.

[Steve Youngblood]

OLED is nice but it's not a system seller.

3D was? I thought everyone hated 3D.

I don't think it was anywhere near as important as they hoped, but I do think it probably generated some enthusiasm. Not nearly enough to justify it as the focal point of the console, but enough that I'm sure some customers were intrigued by the optional glasses-less 3D.

[cool breeze]

well, the big mistake i see there is calling it the vita tv, when it plays a lot more than just vita games

the second is the paltry amount of internal memory, i don't understand why all these companies treat internal memory like it's some kind of precious commodity

yeah, the memory card limit hurts the vita and it matters more here.

Vita TV has a USB port, unlike the Vita, but it's a stretch to think Sony will let you put games on an external drive.

[MCD]

I thought about buying it for PS1 games but my PS3 can do that so it's just PSP and a limited number of Vita games.

[Mr. Gundam]

Now that we know that Ryu ga Gotoku Ishin is for PS3/PS4, I'm starting to wonder if Persona 5 will follow suit.

[demi]

Vita TV in a nutshell

[demi]

Now that we know that Ryu Ga Gotoku Ishin is for PS3/PS4, I'm starting to wonder if Persona 5 will follow suit.

Of course it is.

[Mr. Gundam]

So basically games originally developed for current-gen, but will get a bit of a resolution/performance bump on new-gen hardware.

[Rahxephon91]

I think Vita Tv actually is pretty awesome.

It's cheap.

Will make another good streaming box for the home.

It plays vita and PSP games and well I don't have any of those systems so for a couple of games here and there it will be nice.

And could basically serve as an "extra" PS4 if remote play works as well.

If I get a PS4, I see no reason to not get this rather cheap little extension.

[cool breeze]

[demi]

I think Vita Tv actually is pretty awesome.

It's cheap.

Will make another good streaming box for the home.

It plays vita and PSP games and well I don't have any of those systems so for a couple of games here and there it will be nice.

And could basically serve as an "extra" PS4 if remote play works as well.

If I get a PS4, I see no reason to not get this rather cheap little extension.

Nobody has mentioned if has flash memory, but if they make you buy a Vita memory card, you can see yourself spending upwards to $100 just for a decent sized one.

[Rahxephon91]

I think Vita Tv actually is pretty awesome.

It's cheap.

Will make another good streaming box for the home.

It plays vita and PSP games and well I don't have any of those systems so for a couple of games here and there it will be nice.

And could basically serve as an "extra" PS4 if remote play works as well.

If I get a PS4, I see no reason to not get this rather cheap little extension.

Nobody has mentioned if has flash memory, but if they make you buy a Vita memory card, you can see yourself spending upwards to $100 just for a decent sized one.

Hey, looks like I'll just be playing one Vita game at a time.

[Purple Filth]

I think Vita Tv actually is pretty awesome.

It's cheap.

Will make another good streaming box for the home.

It plays vita and PSP games and well I don't have any of those systems so for a couple of games here and there it will be nice.

And could basically serve as an "extra" PS4 if remote play works as well.

If I get a PS4, I see no reason to not get this rather cheap little extension.

Nobody has mentioned if has flash memory, but if they make you buy a Vita memory card, you can see yourself spending upwards to $100 just for a decent sized one.

The feature list mentions that it also has the 1gb internal memory like the Vita 2000 and they have a bundle that comes with a controller and a 8gb card.


What they need to do is drop those memory card prices more then ffs

[Flannel Boy]

An entire gig?

  dat Sony

  dat killzone gif

  dat oled

[bork]

I think this could have a lot of potential whenever Gaikai (is that the name?  Gakkai?  Bukkake?)  is released- and streaming means no overpriced Vita memory card is necessary.  But I just can't get over the bundle being $150 when you can get a PS3 for $199.  Plus if the main focus is video streaming, you can get a Roku box for like fifty bucks or Google Play for even less.

1GB of memory isn't enough for Vita games like Killzone, BTW. 

[demi]

Nobody wants to play Killzone on Vita, we're good.

[MCD]

Nobody wants to play Killzone on Vita, we're good.

killzone.gif

[bork]

KILLZONE   

[Purple Filth]

I think this could have a lot of potential whenever Gaikai (is that the name?  Gakkai?  Bukkake?)  is released- and streaming means no overpriced Vita memory card is necessary.  But I just can't get over the bundle being $150 when you can get a PS3 for $199.  Plus if the main focus is video streaming, you can get a Roku box for like fifty bucks or Google Play for even less.

1GB of memory isn't enough for Vita games like Killzone, BTW.

You can still buy the cart 

Nobody wants to play Killzone on Vita, we're good.

I do.

KILLZONE   

I honestly can't hate the series even though its just wasted potential

[cool breeze]

http://www.jp.playstation.com/psvitatv/game/psvitalist/

there is a preliminary list of vita games that work on vita tv and it's missing many of the bigger games (uncharted, gravity daze, wipeout, etc.) wipeout only uses the touchscreen for menus.

and the basic, $100 version doesn't come with a remote.  you need a dual shock 3 (or 4, or Vita?)..or a bravia tv

pressing L3/R3 (click in the stick) brings up cursors to simulate touch screen.  so why couldn't wipeout work?

I DONT SEE PERSONA

Or read Japanese to understand PERUSONA

persona is on there.  translate it to english and search.

ペルソナ４　ザ・ゴールデン

[demi]

I DONT SEE PERSONA

Or read Japanese to understand PERUSONA

[bork]

http://www.thesixthaxis.com/2013/09/09/sony-announce-a-new-console-playstation-vita-tv/

UPDATE: We’ve been sent a few more details on the system from Sony.

There will be a system software update to patch in DualShock 4 support.
It can connect to other PS Vitas via ad hoc mode.
Two DualShock 3 controllers can be paired to the system, allowing for playing PS1 titles.
PS Vita can be used as a controller for some Wii U like functionality.
Will support “nasne”, a networked recorder and media storage device.

If Vita can be used as a controller, all games might work.

I would love it if I can just play from the Vita directly to my TV with Vita TV or use a controller, depending on the game.  That would be absolutely perfect.

[AdmiralViscen]

OLED is nice but it's not a system seller.

3D was? I thought everyone hated 3D.

You didn't mean sales, lol

[Cascade]

pressing L3/R3 (click in the stick) brings up cursors to simulate touch screen.  so why couldn't wipeout work?

Sony have finally done it. They've created a monstrous control scheme designed to hack on functionality to a system that's even more cumbersome and unintuitive than the 3DS dual analog boat. Man, this thing is a joke. I thought Nintendo were going to get 1st, 2nd and 3rd price at the worst hardware of 2013 awards but at this rate Sony might just scoop them.

[bork]

pressing L3/R3 (click in the stick) brings up cursors to simulate touch screen.  so why couldn't wipeout work?

Sony have finally done it. They've created a monstrous control scheme designed to hack on functionality to a system that's even more cumbersome and unintuitive than the 3DS dual analog boat. Man, this thing is a joke. I thought Nintendo were going to get 1st, 2nd and 3rd price at the worst hardware of 2013 awards but at this rate Sony might just scoop them.

 

You don't really need to access the touchscreen features for most games and on the system menu at this point.  A controller is fine.  I see nothing wrong with clicking the stick to make system navigation easier with a cursor, either.

[cool breeze]

yeah, that's why it's surprising and confusing.  you can navigate around the vita solely with the d-pad and buttons.  having a cursor mode doesn't really make sense if games that require the touch screen won't work.

actually, recent updates took functionality away from the touch screen.  before to access emulator settings menu for PSP and PS1 games, you held down on the touch screen.  now you hold the home button and it's an option there.

as much as I like the idea, the whole thing is a mess of compatibility issues.

[hampster]

I don't get why they are launching with the DualShock 3 and not the 4. It seems like the 4 could handle a lot of the front touch stuff (like Uncharted's dumb charcoal rubbings or swiping up to attack). Just seems like they are making the transition more of a pain than it needs to be.

[Purple Filth]

I don't get why they are launching with the DualShock 3 and not the 4. It seems like the 4 could handle a lot of the front touch stuff (like Uncharted's dumb charcoal rubbings or swiping up to attack). Just seems like they are making the transition more of a pain than it needs to be.

its coming out in November while the 4 is coming February 2014, they gonna need a controller to push the game playing thing (vita, psp, ps1, etc) until the 4 comes around (apparently its going to get a firmware update to support the DS4)

[headwalk]

it's like sony are trying to create an ecosystem just by shitting out hardware.

the software is the glue, and the only best in class software element they have are first party exclusives for the PS4. they don't have anything like a unified OS or familiar featureset, just a bizarre frankenstein network of semi compatible discrete devices.


 

[headwalk]

case in point:



okay sony, you have a clutch of middlingly popular AAA IPs. clutch on to them until your knuckles go white in lieu of developing a relevant and unified infrastructure and maybe you'll end up like nintendo.

[Mr. Gundam]

I don't get why they are launching with the DualShock 3 and not the 4. It seems like the 4 could handle a lot of the front touch stuff (like Uncharted's dumb charcoal rubbings or swiping up to attack). Just seems like they are making the transition more of a pain than it needs to be.

its coming out in November while the 4 is coming February 2014, they gonna need a controller to push the game playing thing (vita, psp, ps1, etc) until the 4 comes around (apparently its going to get a firmware update to support the DS4)

So someone who has a NA PS4 with DS4 won't be able to use it on a Japanese Vita TV before the Japanese PS4 launch?

[MCD]

Just wait for them to announce it for the actual TV console crowd.

[Purple Filth]

I don't get why they are launching with the DualShock 3 and not the 4. It seems like the 4 could handle a lot of the front touch stuff (like Uncharted's dumb charcoal rubbings or swiping up to attack). Just seems like they are making the transition more of a pain than it needs to be.

its coming out in November while the 4 is coming February 2014, they gonna need a controller to push the game playing thing (vita, psp, ps1, etc) until the 4 comes around (apparently its going to get a firmware update to support the DS4)

So someone who has a NA PS4 with DS4 won't be able to use it on a Japanese Vita TV before the Japanese PS4 launch?

I guess that will depend on when this apparent firmware update will happen.

[cool breeze]

I don't get why they are launching with the DualShock 3 and not the 4. It seems like the 4 could handle a lot of the front touch stuff (like Uncharted's dumb charcoal rubbings or swiping up to attack). Just seems like they are making the transition more of a pain than it needs to be.

its coming out in November while the 4 is coming February 2014, they gonna need a controller to push the game playing thing (vita, psp, ps1, etc) until the 4 comes around (apparently its going to get a firmware update to support the DS4)

So someone who has a NA PS4 with DS4 won't be able to use it on a Japanese Vita TV before the Japanese PS4 launch?

I guess that will depend on when this apparent firmware update will happen.

It says the patch is coming in the future.  Vita TV releases the day before the PS4.  A day later is the future...probably not.  Is vita tv announced for NA or Europe?

And the notes say it uses the expensive proprietary cards as game storage.  That's dumb.  The one gig internal storage is really only enough for game saves or the tiniest of games.  The thinking is that people will buy the expensive memory for the system, when more it seems like people will pass on the system because of the expensive memory.

[Purple Filth]

I don't get why they are launching with the DualShock 3 and not the 4. It seems like the 4 could handle a lot of the front touch stuff (like Uncharted's dumb charcoal rubbings or swiping up to attack). Just seems like they are making the transition more of a pain than it needs to be.

its coming out in November while the 4 is coming February 2014, they gonna need a controller to push the game playing thing (vita, psp, ps1, etc) until the 4 comes around (apparently its going to get a firmware update to support the DS4)

So someone who has a NA PS4 with DS4 won't be able to use it on a Japanese Vita TV before the Japanese PS4 launch?

I guess that will depend on when this apparent firmware update will happen.

It says the patch is coming in the future.  Vita TV releases the day before the PS4.  A day later is the future...probably not.  Is vita tv announced for NA or Europe?

And the notes say it uses the expensive proprietary cards as game storage.  That's dumb.  The one gig internal storage is really only enough for game saves or the tiniest of games.  The thinking is that people will buy the expensive memory for the system, when more it seems like people will pass on the system because of the expensive memory.

Hence why I say that will depend on the timing plus I assume the Firmware won't be much different from the Vita one so will it appear for PS4 launch in the other territories? We'll have to see.
 
No US/EU details right now (if it ever happens)

Well they have a bundle that gives you a 8gb stick and a controller for 50 more so they might want to steer people in that direction but I agree that the pricey memory could pose an issue. That's why they should adjust the memory card prices again imo

[chronovore]

i wouldn't write the vita tv off so quickly, i think it'll take off fairly well, especially when they get all their streaming shit together

Can you name one reason anyone who previously was not interested in Vita would now be? It's not like Vita TV is really any cheaper than the real Vita since you need to spend $150 to actually play some games. As well as that, tonnes of Vita games are unplayable on the thing and the Vita is hardly drowning in games.

it plays more than vita games

If I understand it correctly, the main point is that it's a $100 TV streaming box, which is about what the Roku, Apple TV, etc. go for, correct? And it's not just a Sony-branded, sexy streaming box, it ALSO PLAYS GAMES! -- which is exactly the marketing tactic Sony should be using, but historically they've failed to message properly.

This is reminding me a lot of the PSX introduction: addresses a current need, hardware is sexy as hell, and a surprisingly competitive price point, but off-message and likely to fail because of it.

The PSX was launched as a PS2... which also did DVR, DVD playback, DVD-R authoring and recording, and whatever PSN was called last generation through its built-in ethernet. It was a stunningly great piece of hardware which sold for either ¥70,000 or ¥60,000, which is what standard, non-gaming, non-net-connected DVRs were selling for at that time.

And it fell flat on its face, because of its focus as gaming hardware, even though it did all that other great stuff.

[headwalk]

i wouldn't write the vita tv off so quickly, i think it'll take off fairly well, especially when they get all their streaming shit together

Can you name one reason anyone who previously was not interested in Vita would now be? It's not like Vita TV is really any cheaper than the real Vita since you need to spend $150 to actually play some games. As well as that, tonnes of Vita games are unplayable on the thing and the Vita is hardly drowning in games.

it plays more than vita games

If I understand it correctly, the main point is that it's a $100 TV streaming box, which is about what the Roku, Apple TV, etc. go for, correct? And it's not just a Sony-branded, sexy streaming box, it ALSO PLAYS GAMES! -- which is exactly the marketing tactic Sony should be using, but historically they've failed to message properly.

This is reminding me a lot of the PSX introduction: addresses a current need, hardware is sexy as hell, and a surprisingly competitive price point, but off-message and likely to fail because of it.

The PSX was launched as a PS2 which also did DVR, DVD playback, DVD-R authoring and recording, and whatever PSN was called last generation through its built-in ethernet. It was a stunningly great piece of hardware which sold for either ¥70,000 or ¥60,000, which is what standard, non-gaming, non-net-connected DVRs were selling for at that time.

And it fell flat on its face.

the PSX came out in a very different climate. sony are now a proprietary dinosaur. only apple can survive on anything like a closed loop ecosystem and that's because every other person on the planet owns one of their devices. everything else survives by throwing their net open to as many opportunities as possible; take the roku box, that thing opens itself up to any app on any OS that'll give it the time of day.

sony have a bad case of little man syndrome when it comes to software ecosystems. maybe it's a zany japanese pride thing, an unwelcome hand-me-down from the walled garden console model, but nobody is going to care about a sony media hub which is only compatible with other sony devices and sony servcies. that just isn't how shit gets done anymore.

[chronovore]

Wait, so Vita TV doesn't do Netflix, Amazon Prime Streaming, etc. ?

[Tasty]

Wait, so Vita TV doesn't do Netflix, Amazon Prime Streaming, etc. ?

It Only Does... PSN.

[hampster]

Wait, so Vita TV doesn't do Netflix, Amazon Prime Streaming, etc. ?

The vita only has Netflix and Youtube. It will probably get Amazon, Hulu and maybe a few more once this releases. But it will never have the channel/app selection of something like Roku which has everything from Tested.com to Giantbomb to a dozen cooking channels

I don't think it matters that much though. Most consumers are probably fine with the big apps

[chronovore]

the PSX came out in a very different climate. sony are now a proprietary dinosaur. only apple can survive on anything like a closed loop ecosystem and that's because every other person on the planet owns one of their devices. everything else survives by throwing their net open to as many opportunities as possible; take the roku box, that thing opens itself up to any app on any OS that'll give it the time of day.

sony have a bad case of little man syndrome when it comes to software ecosystems. maybe it's a zany japanese pride thing, an unwelcome hand-me-down from the walled garden console model, but nobody is going to care about a sony media hub which is only compatible with other sony devices and sony servcies. that just isn't how shit gets done anymore.

It has Netflix.  No idea about Amazon Prime streaming or w/e.  The Vita has a ton of third party apps for accessing content.  I don't think that was what headwalk was getting at, though.

My initial thought, on reading Headwalk's post, was that Sony was again, foolhardily attempting to push ANOTHER proprietary Sony format through Vita TV, much like their maligned music service, the closed eBook ecosystem of Sony Reader, their ATRAC3 compression format for digital music, their Memory Sticks which they opened up -- only to go entirely proprietary again for PS Vita. That would have been utter foolishness, and I'm relieved to hear that's not the case.

I'm still missing something then, but I'm also on the closed loop Apple ecosystem.

Is this about not being able to modify the Vita TV? Use non-Sony applications on it?

[headwalk]

the PSX came out in a very different climate. sony are now a proprietary dinosaur. only apple can survive on anything like a closed loop ecosystem and that's because every other person on the planet owns one of their devices. everything else survives by throwing their net open to as many opportunities as possible; take the roku box, that thing opens itself up to any app on any OS that'll give it the time of day.

sony have a bad case of little man syndrome when it comes to software ecosystems. maybe it's a zany japanese pride thing, an unwelcome hand-me-down from the walled garden console model, but nobody is going to care about a sony media hub which is only compatible with other sony devices and sony servcies. that just isn't how shit gets done anymore.

It has Netflix.  No idea about Amazon Prime streaming or w/e.  The Vita has a ton of third party apps for accessing content.  I don't think that was what headwalk was getting at, though.

My initial thought, on reading Headwalk's post, was that Sony was again, foolhardily attempting to push ANOTHER proprietary Sony format through Vita TV, much like their maligned music service, the closed eBook ecosystem of Sony Reader, their ATRAC3 compression format for digital music, their Memory Sticks which they opened up -- only to go entirely proprietary again for PS Vita. That would have been utter foolishness, and I'm relieved to hear that's not the case.

I'm still missing something then, but I'm also on the closed loop Apple ecosystem.

Is this about not being able to modify the Vita TV? Use non-Sony applications on it?

keeping feature parity with the wii u isn't going to cut it. having netflix, facebook, twitter et al is the equivalent of boasting about having a watch, calculator and snake on your phone just as iOS was rising to prominence.

trying to build your own closed ecosystem which is both reflexive and self sustaining is never going to happen, not unless you have a socially defining product and a time machine. microsoft are burning billions in their attempt to retrofit windows in to something which can compete with google or apple on their own terms, and with the numerous extensions in to (eurgh) "cloud" the idea of an ecosytsem is more vast and nebulous than ever.

neat little discrete devices are now doomed to a life of niche appeal, neat little devices on their own closed loop network with some basic extended functionality will only fare a little better.

[AdmiralViscen]

I don't know why Vita couldn't run a heavily customized version of Android with market access. Just create a Sony app market like Amazon did.

They even already had the fucking storefront from their stupid Xperia Play phone.

[Diunx]

case in point:

(Image removed from quote.)

okay sony, you have a clutch of middlingly popular AAA IPs. clutch on to them until your knuckles go white in lieu of developing a relevant and unified infrastructure and maybe you'll end up like nintendo.

To be fair Sony always develop tons of new IPs each generation, I don't see why this one would be any different.

[Himu]

I don't know why Vita couldn't run a heavily customized version of Android with market access. Just create a Sony app market like Amazon did.

They even already had the fucking storefront from their stupid Xperia Play phone.

(Image removed from quote.)

Said this before Vita was even announced. This is what the next playstation portable should have been but they were so into making another dedicated hw handheld device and now it's too late.

[bork]

case in point:

(Image removed from quote.)

It's funny looking back at that now.

[Father_Brain]

It's just a very strange product. The concept of a PS set-top box makes sense in theory, but tying it so closely to an existing, failed platform when it can't even run a number of said platform's highest-profile native games?

[bork]

It's just a very strange product. The concept of a PS set-top box makes sense in theory, but tying it so closely to an existing, failed platform when it can't even run a number of said platform's highest-profile native games?

I thought Sony addressed this already and said that there would be a way to play these games after all?

[headwalk]

case in point:

(Image removed from quote.)

okay sony, you have a clutch of middlingly popular AAA IPs. clutch on to them until your knuckles go white in lieu of developing a relevant and unified infrastructure and maybe you'll end up like nintendo.

To be fair Sony always develop tons of new IPs each generation, I don't see why this one would be any different.

my point isn't about the quality or depth of their exclusives, it's that bringing exclusive gaming IP to the OS war table is like bringing a club to a lightsabre fight. the vast majority of people who want to play those games will play those games once on a single device which is optimised for gaming, then they'll go back to their android/iOS devices for everything else.

like, i get that there's still an opening for a living room OS, but does anyone really think sony are capable of building an ecosystem from the ground up? maybe if sony was a dominant force in TV and all the vita TV shit was included in their sets, as well as being free to anyone else who wanted one, and they had some major partner like amazon going all in on their platform - extending it out to all their portable devices. maybe then, they'd have a icicle's chance in hell.

this is why the xbone $500 price tag makes my brain seize up. they actually have a chance of using the living room to salvage their whole metro gamble. surely that's infinitely more important than any short term PPU gain?

[Father_Brain]

It's just a very strange product. The concept of a PS set-top box makes sense in theory, but tying it so closely to an existing, failed platform when it can't even run a number of said platform's highest-profile native games?

I thought Sony addressed this already and said that there would be a way to play these games after all?

They released a limited compatibility list. It'll be expanded somewhat with patches, but there's no way to replicate back touch or the camera as is, and the cursor-based touchscreen emulation won't work very well beyond menus.

[Diunx]

Pretty sure they will start bundle it with the DS4 next year once the production cost goes down, I believe their hope is that in the future the DS4 becomes the standart controller for the vita TV which would address the touch screen problem thanks to it's trackpad.

[cool breeze]

It's possible Sony doesn't release it in the states until the controller can be bundled.  Companies occasionally do stranger things for the Japanese market, like that umd trade in program or selling the 3ds xl without a charger.  afaik it doesn't have an ir receiver and can't connect to phones/tablets like that google dongle.  comes off like a big oversight to buy a device you can't control.

and the new Vita looks really cheap (screen is cardboard in this shot).

[Father_Brain]

Pretty sure they will start bundle it with the DS4 next year once the production cost goes down, I believe their hope is that in the future the DS4 becomes the standart controller for the vita TV which would address the touch screen problem thanks to it's trackpad.

Trackpad wouldn't address the camera or rear touch at all, and it'd really only be a serviceable substitute for gestural controls, not anything involving specific areas of the screen.

[Cerveza mas fina]

How cheap is the new vita?

[MCD]

How cheap is the new vita?

The new Vita will be tagged at ¥18,980 ($190), a downward adjustment from the older unit's ¥19,980 ($200) base price, but Sony is, for now, tight lipped on whether these savings will be seen in other parts of the world.

[Rufus]

Trackpad wouldn't address the camera or rear touch at all, and it'd really only be a serviceable substitute for gestural controls, not anything involving specific areas of the screen.

It would still be better than using the stick, since you won't have to drive the cursor around and they could map the entire screen to it, so with some practice you could even get used to the positioning. It's clicky as well, no need to bind a separate button. Imagine using a stick on a laptop to drive the cursor.