1,000+ Pages of NeoGAF: The Story of Wasted Lives and Hardcore Salt

[recursivelyenumerable]

on usenet since '95. please please please please please please don't look me up kthx.

[benjipwns]

yeah i thought we all stopped caring about "how many hours" sometime in the late 90s, but guess it was just me.

Personally I still keep track of how many megs a game is.

[dkdk]

startling amount of self realization in this thread so far....

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=986657&page=3

Any real influence GAF had on the industry has basically evaporated over the past five years, as the gaming-side community drove most of the industry vets/game devs away by gravitating, as a whole, towards the "angry gamer, pubs are greedy, devs are lazy" mindset. Adult professionals don't really want to have interactions with backseat devs who present themselves as technical experts but who have zero experience in game design or development, much less when they're being called liars, lazy, etc in process.

On the other hand, GAF still has tremendous influence on the enthusiast press. Faced with increasingly bleak prospects, places like Kotaku have leaned into appealing to the super-core audience that wants things like muckracking, outrage-of-the-week, tabloid-style reporting on game dev company personnel, and leaks. What's the best place to find those? GAF, of course.

Vocal insignificant population, that gives more praises to itself than it deserves.

You should never listen to a group of people especially those who have constantly proven to lack the ability to understand the design process.

is "vocal minority" code for irrelevant motherfuckers?

[toku]

yeah i thought we all stopped caring about "how many hours" sometime in the late 90s, but guess it was just me.

Personally I still keep track of how many megs a game is.

I don't install anything that can't fit on 12 floppies.

[recursivelyenumerable]

yeah i thought we all stopped caring about "how many hours" sometime in the late 90s, but guess it was just me.

Personally I still keep track of how many megs a game is.

or how many meg ryans in the case of FFX.

[nudemacusers]

startling amount of self realization in this thread so far....

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=986657&page=3

Any real influence GAF had on the industry has basically evaporated over the past five years, as the gaming-side community drove most of the industry vets/game devs away by gravitating, as a whole, towards the "angry gamer, pubs are greedy, devs are lazy" mindset. Adult professionals don't really want to have interactions with backseat devs who present themselves as technical experts but who have zero experience in game design or development, much less when they're being called liars, lazy, etc in process.

On the other hand, GAF still has tremendous influence on the enthusiast press. Faced with increasingly bleak prospects, places like Kotaku have leaned into appealing to the super-core audience that wants things like muckracking, outrage-of-the-week, tabloid-style reporting on game dev company personnel, and leaks. What's the best place to find those? GAF, of course.

interesting that nobody has replied to that post

[mormapope]

startling amount of self realization in this thread so far....

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=986657&page=3

Any real influence GAF had on the industry has basically evaporated over the past five years, as the gaming-side community drove most of the industry vets/game devs away by gravitating, as a whole, towards the "angry gamer, pubs are greedy, devs are lazy" mindset. Adult professionals don't really want to have interactions with backseat devs who present themselves as technical experts but who have zero experience in game design or development, much less when they're being called liars, lazy, etc in process.

On the other hand, GAF still has tremendous influence on the enthusiast press. Faced with increasingly bleak prospects, places like Kotaku have leaned into appealing to the super-core audience that wants things like muckracking, outrage-of-the-week, tabloid-style reporting on game dev company personnel, and leaks. What's the best place to find those? GAF, of course.

Vocal insignificant population, that gives more praises to itself than it deserves.

You should never listen to a group of people especially those who have constantly proven to lack the ability to understand the design process.

Pretty funny how a lot of people in that thread hope and dream that people in the industry listen to them
 

[El Babua]

When I joined, there were still random devs posting about in certain threads.

Pretty much all of them stopped posting about a year later. This was in 2009, I guess right when Sony patched up the sinking ship and Nintendo had their last phenomenal year.

[Stoney Mason]

startling amount of self realization in this thread so far....

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=986657&page=3

Any real influence GAF had on the industry has basically evaporated over the past five years, as the gaming-side community drove most of the industry vets/game devs away by gravitating, as a whole, towards the "angry gamer, pubs are greedy, devs are lazy" mindset. Adult professionals don't really want to have interactions with backseat devs who present themselves as technical experts but who have zero experience in game design or development, much less when they're being called liars, lazy, etc in process.

On the other hand, GAF still has tremendous influence on the enthusiast press. Faced with increasingly bleak prospects, places like Kotaku have leaned into appealing to the super-core audience that wants things like muckracking, outrage-of-the-week, tabloid-style reporting on game dev company personnel, and leaks. What's the best place to find those? GAF, of course.

so much truth there.

[benjipwns]

I feel like GAF has banned (Dyack, Jaffe) or ran off over some dumb issue (Jackson, the Just Add Water guy, that guy who was making the ultimate open world game full of hot chicks and golden guns, etc.) at least half the devs that have posted regularly.

[I'm a Puppy!]

Seems to me that listening to gaf is a surefire way to go bankrupt

[Shaka Khan]

Seems to me that listening to gaf is a surefire way to go bankrupt

Right, Schilling?

[Olivia Wilde Homo]

When I joined, there were still random devs posting about in certain threads.

Pretty much all of them stopped posting about a year later. This was in 2009, I guess right when Sony patched up the sinking ship and Nintendo had their last phenomenal year.

There was a change in 2007.  Over the next several months, a lot of people of note in the industry or quality posters in general either left, barely posted, or got banned.  I think Evilore at that time realized that he could make a potential killing on NeoGAF and basically let in any 4chan riff raff so long as they didn't have a gmail.  NeoGAF is basically meant to line Evilore's pockets, which is fine, but I have to lol at the people there who think NeoGAF is better than the 4chan and Reddit runoff that comprises most of its userbase.

[thisismyusername]

I feel like GAF has banned (Dyack, Jaffe) or ran off over some dumb issue (Jackson, the Just Add Water guy, that guy who was making the ultimate open world game full of hot chicks and golden guns, etc.) at least half the devs that have posted regularly.

The thing about Jaffe is: He only get temp banned and rightly so (he continued to pick a fight while not admitting he was maybe in the wrong. Devo called him on his victim blaming and he continued to do it). He got butthurt about it (I AM A CELEBRITY!) and "left."

Frankie is about the only one to stick around on GAF, despite a bunch of bungie.net distinguished mentally-challenged fellows flooding the Halo thread. He's probably the only reasonable "notable GAF poster" that isn't a complete stuck-up-their-ass "celeb."

[kick51]

startling amount of self realization in this thread so far....

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=986657&page=3

Any real influence GAF had on the industry has basically evaporated over the past five years, as the gaming-side community drove most of the industry vets/game devs away by gravitating, as a whole, towards the "angry gamer, pubs are greedy, devs are lazy" mindset. Adult professionals don't really want to have interactions with backseat devs who present themselves as technical experts but who have zero experience in game design or development, much less when they're being called liars, lazy, etc in process.

On the other hand, GAF still has tremendous influence on the enthusiast press. Faced with increasingly bleak prospects, places like Kotaku have leaned into appealing to the super-core audience that wants things like muckracking, outrage-of-the-week, tabloid-style reporting on game dev company personnel, and leaks. What's the best place to find those? GAF, of course.

Vocal insignificant population, that gives more praises to itself than it deserves.

You should never listen to a group of people especially those who have constantly proven to lack the ability to understand the design process.

there are a few people who post interesting original content

people who post news as soon as it hits

a bunch of people who try to post interesting content, but instead make themselves look distinguished mentally-challenged ("how does nintendo make you feel," "What Stanley Kubrick could've learned from Neil Druckman," "is taking advantage of a gamestop price error morally wrong?" etc.)

and then the rest who congratulate themselves for being on the same site as those who post the other stuff. 

people are having the same discussions about gaming everywhere else on the internet as well, gaf just happens to be much more moderated, and a bit easier to see instant news/the topics of the day.

[Olivia Wilde Homo]

The Order is the Heavenly Sword of the PS4.  Rent it or wait a couple months for it to hit $20.

[Phoenix Dark]

Cheebs annihilated Jaffe.

[Am_I_Anonymous]

Honestly Flint is the only place I've felt shook. Detroit isn't bad, just don't go to certain areas after dark. But Flint might as well be Baghdad outside of a couple areas.

The fuck? Flint...MC Breed...jeeps.....etc...that was my second home man...

https://m.

[Am_I_Anonymous]

I don't really read gaming threads very much, but Sonyfegs can't be as butthurt as they were in 2007, can they? You'd need a million donkeys to haul away all the salt those guys produced when the PS3 was stuck in third place with every anticipated killer app turning out mediocre.

https://m.

Flint OP mob brehs...even PAC knew it

[benjipwns]

I don't really read gaming threads very much, but Sonyfegs can't be as butthurt as they were in 2007, can they? You'd need a million donkeys to haul away all the salt those guys produced when the PS3 was stuck in third place with every anticipated killer app turning out mediocre.

It's more of a situation where they thought they had finally won and were back on top forever, but then all the reality is poking holes in their euphoria.

Kinda like things happened to Nintendo fans last time around. Though they were able to cocoon themselves in the sales enough to keep up the "I'm actually playing games" delusions.

[Am_I_Anonymous]

Get full Stan on some video game blibba blabba over age 16 and try to feel normal brehs.

[benjipwns]

Get full Stan on some video game blibba blabba over age 16 and try to feel normal brehs.

Get the causation backwards brehs.

[Mr. Nobody]

It's time to take your metamucil, Anon.

[mormapope]

Sony and Nintendo going under, Microsoft and Apple becoming the main competitors for home consoles 

Gaf would be a never ending PPV event for trolling and salt 

[StealthFan]

in the desert, on a ps4 with no gaems

[bluemax]

RE4 was the perfect console game.

they should've just stopped right there.

I'm glad they didn't. The controls were so bad in that game. I still don't understand how something with such clunky controls is considered such a good action game. The design of the controls inherently ruins the action.

the basic problem i have with jrpgs is typically the only interesting challenge is in boss battles but a large % of your time is usually spent on "regular enemy" battles that carry no risk/challenge or interest of any kind. in older jrpgs these battles were meant to gradually grind you down over the course of a dungeon (attrition) so the individual battles weren't a challenge but the dungeon overall could be a resource management challenge. but most newer (as in, like, the last 20 years) jrpgs tend to give out magic and items and such so freely there's no meaningful attrition. which is understandable as while attrition does work, it kind of has an inherently narrow appeal (slowly depleting resources and having to start the dungeon all over if you lose are just less accessibly entertaining than fast paced "can I heal in time" boss battles). but they still have the regular enemy battles which are pointless without attrition.

incidentally i thought the world ends with you (with its chain battles) and ff13 (with how it completely dispenses with MP etc. so it doesn't even pretend to have attrition, but instead the battle system is designed around the challenge being winning the battle *quickly*) were interesting stabs at finding a new approach/way out from this problem.

You should check out Breath of Fire Dragon Quarter, the greatest JRPG of all time. Every battle in that game mattered and if you lost it meant starting the game completely over. Each encounter actually required planning and tactics. And the game got better every time you played it.

[StealthFan]

Lettuce be serious, Bloodborne and Uncharted are it this year. A 400 dollar console for two fucking games. I traded in my Xbone and was like "What do I do with this money? Buy all the PS4 games that don't fucking exist?". I bought a PS3. I've already played most of the games I wanted on there, but it's been a minute for a lot of them and I missed playing Black Ops. Already bit a chunk out of Dark Souls and I am DLing Yakuza 4 and a shitload of other games.

This gen blows dick.

[Mr. Nobody]

I need at least 5 games before I consider buying a PS4

MKX
FF15
Persona 5
MGS5
uhhhhhhh

and 3 of those only have 2015 as a date thus far

[StealthFan]

Buy 400 dollar hardware to play games available on the older gen, brehs. All of those are on PS3.

[benjipwns]

I need at least 5 games before I consider buying a PS4

MKX
FF15
MGS5

[Mr. Nobody]

Buy 400 dollar hardware to play games available on the older gen, brehs. All of those are on PS3.

"That's not true  "

*2 of them are on ps3*

 

[mormapope]

Buy 400 dollar hardware to play games available on the older gen, brehs. All of those are on PS3.

"That's not true  "

*2 of them are on ps3*

 

Actually, three of them are.

MGSV
MKX
Persona 5

 

[Mr. Nobody]

Buy 400 dollar hardware to play games available on the older gen, brehs. All of those are on PS3.

"That's not true  "

*2 of them are on ps3*

 

Actually, three of them are.

MGSV
MKX
Persona 5

 

For some reason, I thought MKX was PS4/Xbone only. Welp

[StealthFan]

I am shocked FFXV isn't on PS3. I guess that explains those graphics.

[The Legend of Sunblade]

I feel like we've been through the whole "this gen sucks" parade before, circa 2000 and 2007. Same "why would you upgrade to a system with no games" arguments too.

Also, does it really matter what platform you buy a game on? Even if you get a game on PS3, its still money spent on a Sony platform. With the PS4 still meeting sales expectations, i don't think they mind still making money off of people that don't want to get a PS4 yet.

[Joe Molotov]

I am shocked FFXV isn't on PS3. I guess that explains those graphics.

lazy devs

[StealthFan]

2001 was dope tho. Niccas saw DMC, FFX, Silent Hill 2, Jak, GTA 3 and MGS2 coming. PS2 was less "This is shit" and more "This is shit but holy fuck look what is coming. Let's wait and then eat."

[benjipwns]

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=986540

[mormapope]

Coming from someone who was a PS2 owner in fall 2001 and a 360 owner in the summer of 2006, if I paid $400 for a PS4 last year, I'd want that money back ASAP.

[The Legend of Sunblade]

Admittedly, this gen will probably have less outright genre creation than the PS2 did, though I think that's only natural due to that gen being the first to really go all out on 3d games. The most I'm looking forward to myself is just further refinement of already established genres. It's why you see a huge shift to online-based games, since its a genre that couldn't really be pushed forward outside of the 360 considering how garbage ps3 netcode was (and how it plain out didnt exist on the Wii). Hell, Shadow of Mordor already came out of left field and came up with the Nemesis system, which is a really cool feature that legitimately couldn't have happened on the PS360 generation (and whose versions of the game are also missing that feature) and raised what should have been a completely ho hum licensed game into one of my 2014 picks. A lot of my favorite games these days tend to be games that are both revealed and released within the same year rather than these last-gen behemoths that got revealed way too early.

Then again, I've also turned into an MMO player this time around, so I don't buy/spend as much time playing other games now, so the lower amount of released games doesn't bother me as much as it would have before, lol. Usually when I take a break from FF14, I've got my latest batch of PS+ shit / whatever thing i was looking forward to next. I already feel like I won't have enough time to play all the good new stuff, and that's only owning a PS4 and a shit laptop.

[demi]

Once you get one of the new machines you start to not care about the older ones very quickly. I havent turned on my PS3 in a long while. I thought I'd jump right into KH2.5 but....

[The Legend of Sunblade]

Once you get one of the new machines you start to not care about the older ones very quickly. I havent turned on my PS3 in a long while. I thought I'd jump right into KH2.5 but....

I'm in the same boat. I've gotten some PS+ PS3 games that I've been wanting to play ever since the PS4 came out, but then I remember how clunky the PS3 OS is by comparison and I quickly lose the interest to play them. I'm spoiled by how quickly i can start up a game now.

[Himu]

2001 was dope tho. Niccas saw DMC, FFX, Silent Hill 2, Jak, GTA 3 and MGS2 coming. PS2 was less "This is shit" and more "This is shit but holy fuck look what is coming. Let's wait and then eat."

I'm not arguing your basic argument (that consoles r poo and dead) but back in those days it felt like you knew a game was gonna come out sooo long in advance. maybe im wrong tho.

It's because you were younger. In fact, games came out between release and announcement faster back the . But you were so young it felt like it took an eternity. There was a year between ffix and x.

[mormapope]

I'm not arguing your basic argument (that consoles r poo and dead) but back in those days it felt like you knew a game was gonna come out sooo long in advance. maybe im wrong tho.

I'd say its been the same or maybe a little bit worst regarding this.

It's because you were younger. In fact, games came out between release and announcement faster back the . But you were so young it felt like it took an eternity. There was a year between ffix and x.

The last few E3s have been rife with this sorta shit. How many AAA games revealed in 2013 have come out?

[Himu]

I feel like we've been through the whole "this gen sucks" parade before, circa 2000 and 2007. Same "why would you upgrade to a system with no games" arguments too.

Also, does it really matter what platform you buy a game on? Even if you get a game on PS3, its still money spent on a Sony platform. With the PS4 still meeting sales expectations, i don't think they mind still making money off of people that don't want to get a PS4 yet.

Entirely false.

In 2000, Dreamcast and psx were kicking ass. FFIX came out, and Skies of Arcadia came out around the same time. DC was kicking all ass and release great game after great game, psx had probably its best year yet in 2000 with exclusive titles. We got Tony Hawk 2 that year. Final Fantasy IX. Vagrant Story, Chrono Cross, Spider-Man, Smackdown, Dragon Warrior VII.

Meanwhile, while dreamcast and psx were kicking ass, ps2 had titles like SSX, Tekken Tag Tournament, Ridge Racer V, Midnight Club. PS2 also had the added benefit of having B games like Smuggler's Run that current generation systems lack. By the time ps2 was a years old, they had those titles out, Onimusha was out, ZOE1 with MGS2 demo was out. By the time the ps2 was less than two years old, it had Jak and Daxter, gta3, FFX, MGS2, Gran Turismo 3, Devil May Cry, Silent Hill 2, SSX Tricky, Max Payne, and a plethora of other games to choose from. In less than two years.

By the end of the year, it solidified itself as worthy, gamecube was out, and xbox was out with this groundbreaking title called Halo. No one in their right mind, between dreamcast, psx, ps2, gc, and xbox thought that the generation was crap or started off on the wrong foot.

Also, you forget that ps2 could play psx games and as said, psx was firing on all cylinders. Fast forward to now: ps4 and xbox one do not have backward compat. Xbox 360 is dead. Wii is dead. ps3 is virtually dead. The releases have dried up, unlike psx's steady stream of games. The current gen systems are about a year and a half old, can you really compare their lineups to ps2's first year and half?

Saying that this generation is trash shouldn't be considered an odd opinion. It truly is.

[mormapope]

You bring up a really good point Queen, the PS1 was getting some killer titles late in its life. The N64 was also getting really good stuff. Majora's Mask, Paper Mario, Kirby 64, Perfect Dark, Conker's Bad Fur Day, WWF No Mercy.

[StealthFan]

Shit I remember playing Syphon Filter 3 and Alone In The Dark back during Fall '01.

I remember Xbox dying as soon as the 360 released. Shit was sad...

[Himu]

I don't think Sunblade is being fair on last gen, either. Last gen, ps2 was still the top dog for a ways into it. FF12 came out in 2006. Why buy an xbox 360 when FF12 is coming out? DQ8 came out the same year 360 came out. 360? Who gives a fuck? Shadow of the Colossus or....Geometry Wars? Hmmm.

Last gen also had a lot of good b game releases to stem the tide. Saints Row, Dead Rising, Just Cause came out that year. Hitman: Blood Money, Oblivion, Dreamfall, Viva Pinata, Tomb Raider: Legend, Bully, Gears of War. All that came out in 2006 - with the 360 less than two years old. Variety; you had shit to choose from.

This generation does not have that benefit of a last gen system worth playing anymore and the exclusives it DOES have, are usually cross gen, so you don't have to buy a ps4 anyways. See the variety in titles released in 2006 for 360? That's about where we're at now in the current gen-wise in terms of time elapsed. Comparing them, it's not even fair. Last gen makes this gen look like dookie.

In my opinion, it should take a generation less than two years to get off the jumping point into awesome. Usually, it takes a year. I usually buy a system after two years because that's when th8ings get REALLY going. This year will mark ps4's second anniversary and I'm still not going to buy one.

[Himu]

I remember Xbox dying as soon as the 360 released. Shit was sad...

Tell em, Stealth-san.



The betrayal.

[mormapope]

Being a 360 owner in 2006 was rad. In 2005 I jumped on the Xbox train, sold all my Xbox stuff to get a 360 (still regret that, had over 40 games for it, some are now rare as fuck nowadays).

Playing DOA4 and socializing with people in the virtual lobbies. Playing CoD2 until the wee hours of the morning. Trying to get all the achievements in Hitman Blood Money. Creating a new character for Oblivion. Saints Row 1 multiplayer, Dead Rising being awesome as fuck. Eventually Gears 1 and Rainbow Six Vegas came out, both had GOAT multiplayer.

Even the people online were unique and weird as fuck back in the early 360 days. I joined a competitive Rainbow Six Vegas clan on Gamebattles (I'm a nerdy fuck). The clan leader was a former coke head who constantly talked about ODing in a gas station bathroom. Met him while he was hosting a Rainbow Six match, kicked everybody on his team except for me and some other dude, we were good enough in his eyes. 




All of this shit for a youngin like myself was awesome, I never experienced what PC owners had been until the 360. CoD4, Mass Effect, Bioshock, and Halo 3 the next year? 

[Mr. Nobody]

Tekken Tag 

[Himu]

ps2
emotion engine

[Mr. Nobody]

Tekken Bowl 

[benjipwns]

Shit I remember playing Syphon Filter 3 and Alone In The Dark back during Fall '01.

I remember Xbox dying as soon as the 360 released. Shit was sad...

Syphon Filter 3 was pretty great, mixing the best parts of the first two games.

And the Xbox was struck down right as it was really hitting its potential with games built specifically for it instead of just PS2 ports with slightly better textures or scuffed helmets. (Though it was getting more of those too but with higher resolutions and better framerates and stuff.)

Especially once it got past Microsoft throwing out a bunch of endless junk just to provide games 

Crimson Skies, Oddworld: Stranger's Wrath, Top Spin, Riddick, Armed and Dangerous, Ninja Gaiden, Phantom Dust, Knights of Old Republic I and II, Jade Empire, best console versions of stuff like Mercenaries, Burnouts, NFL and NBA 2K, NBA Street Vol 2, GTA's, Beyond Good and Evil, X-Men Legends II, Simpsons Hit & Run, Freedom Fighters, Gun, Splinter Cells especially Chaos Theory, Psychonauts, Midnight Club 3, Hulk: Ultimate Destruction, LEGO STAR WARS 

spoiler (click to show/hide)

Yes, I may have just looked over at my collection and don't know the exact dates of some of these.

[close]

spoiler (click to show/hide)

Yes, I may now have most of these in my Steam library.

spoiler (click to show/hide)

[close]

[close]

[Himu]

ORIGINAL XBOX

Still have mine. it's in the closet.

The lack of The Warriors on 360 bc was one of my biggest grievances with that system. One of the best Xbox games. I tried the ps2 version out once and it just ain't the same. Most xbox versions were so much better than ps2 versions. Especially stuff like Psychonauts.

[mormapope]

I'm using component cables for my PS2, and somehow Psychonauts is still blurry as fuck. Some games look really good just at 480p.

[Himu]

Play this game, specifically this stage, hooked up to component.

[benjipwns]

PS2 has some great looking games built for it but when the third party Xbox versions started getting some love and devs were leaving in higher resolution textures and the games were running smoothly. 

[toku]

Still own a hard copy of Orta. It and a bunch of shmups are why I'll probably never sell my 360. Wish MS gave even half a shit as Sony does about some of their OG titles so we could at least get quick digital store only ports for some of them.

[benjipwns]

First playing Orta at times when there were like a billion things on screen in those environments I was like oh god graphics aren't topping this, even though I knew better.

EDIT: That ship on level four I was totally "ohhhhhhh my god this is so huge and amazing" and watching this video of it I see all the tricks and feel shame at undermining the memories.