Let's talk about Tupac Shakur

[AWESOM-O]

I like a lot of his songs, but I wouldn't consider myself an expert. This thread will hopefully serve as an educational experience for me and others on the forum.

1) Did Tupac really have a small dick? Is there any evidence supporting this theory?

2) Did Tupac really fuck dudes? Again, is there any evidence for this?

3) Was Biggie better?

4) Which of his albums reflect the happy periods in his life?

5) How much better than Nas was he?

[jakefromstatefarm]

[Am_I_Anonymous]

Biggie was better. 

Never heard he had a small dick.

Was a backup dancer for digital underground....silly too

Nas is a tier below PAC and can't even see biggie.

[Raban]

that nicca was gay

[Am_I_Anonymous]

http://m.

[Verdigris Murder]

that nicca was gay

As a window.

[Am_I_Anonymous]

Tip: Big L would have been the GOAT if JayZ didn't have his ass shot.

[seagrams hotsauce]

Tip: Big L would have been the GOAT if JayZ didn't have his ass shot.

  what even is this

[Am_I_Anonymous]

Yeah, Jay had Big L shot..... when he was going to sign him

Hip hop fan fiction

Yup. He declined.

Best ever though...

http://m.

[jakefromstatefarm]

The Kanye comparison is imo the most adroit one to make for Pac. I always get a sense that those two never behave like they aren't performing, they are constantly conscious of their presence in how they carry themselves. Every sentence is a punchline, every movement is calculated. What makes [made] them great performers was their ability and drive to focus an audience's attention, and I think that also plays into the cult of personality among their fanbases, which I agree with 100%.

What I don't buy is the homosexual angle. Not only is it completely superficially applied, it's straight up ignorant most of the time which makes me question whether you're being foreal about it or not. I'm not gonna pretend like I haven't called artists out in plug for fekkitry, but I damn sure never did it to defame their character or dismiss their fanbase. What I see in Pac is an attention-addicted showman with an actor's pedigree who knows how to command attention. Whether his "mannerisms" do or don't indicate that he's gay is irrelevant to his career's trajectory.

[Am_I_Anonymous]

What about the notion that part of his beef with Biggie was due to dick size jealousy?

[Am_I_Anonymous]

Talk about fan faction....PAC thought biggie had him shot in NYC...that's where the beef came from...oh and wifey fuckin.

[StealthFan]

nicca had the gay glaze, on the real

[Am_I_Anonymous]

nicca had the gay glaze, on the real

Kinda like

spoiler (click to show/hide)

Dre

[close]

[Phoenix Dark]

When it comes to many (if not most) metrics, Tupac wasn't better than many of his peers. From a lyrical perspective he wasn't as complex as Nas, Big, or Hov. If you look at his albums it's hard to argue he has anything as good as Illmatic, OB4CL, The Infamous, and a host of other classic albums of that era. However Tupac's greatness can be traced to a few specific things.

1) Songwriting. Lyrical miracle rappers don't understand that being super lyrical and being a great songwriter are two different things. Tupac may not have been able to match Nas in terms of song concepts, but as a songwriter I think he was better than his peers. Bridges, hooks, and the simple yet poetic lyrics of many of his best songs.

2) Delivery. Not much I can add that Esch didn't. He's up there with Chuck D and Scarface in terms of having the best voices in rap, and his delivery of lyrics often made the lyrics work.

3) Image. The sex appeal part isn't the only factor. Tupac might be one of the most forceful, charismatic dudes to ever rap. He couldn't be fucked with in terms of standing up for what he believed in, and playing whatever role he was playing.

You can call him "fake" and laugh at his dance education all you want, but any black dude that shoots at police and beats the case isn't "fake" in my eyes. Anyone who refuses to get robbed and ultimately gets shot isn't faking. And lord knows anyone who outright snitches on criminal kingpins and dares them to fuck with him again isn't faking. Rap is FULL of rappers pretending to be something they're not; shit is basically wrestling brehs, and just about everyone except the Wu Tang is lying about shit they allegedly did. But name me some rappers that didn't back down when tested outside of Pac. I'll wait.

[Am_I_Anonymous]

When it comes to many (if not most) metrics, Tupac wasn't better than many of his peers. From a lyrical perspective he wasn't as complex as Nas, Big, or Hov. If you look at his albums it's hard to argue he has anything as good as Illmatic, OB4CL, The Infamous, and a host of other classic albums of that era. However Tupac's greatness can be traced to a few specific things.

1) Songwriting. Lyrical miracle rappers don't understand that being super lyrical and being a great songwriter are two different things. Tupac may not have been able to match Nas in terms of song concepts, but as a songwriter I think he was better than his peers. Bridges, hooks, and the simple yet poetic lyrics of many of his best songs.

2) Delivery. Not much I can add that Esch didn't. He's up there with Chuck D and Scarface in terms of having the best voices in rap, and his delivery of lyrics often made the lyrics work.

3) Image. The sex appeal part isn't the only factor. Tupac might be one of the most forceful, charismatic dudes to ever rap. He couldn't be fucked with in terms of standing up for what he believed in, and playing whatever role he was playing.

You can call him "fake" and laugh at his dance education all you want, but any black dude that shoots at police and beats the case isn't "fake" in my eyes. Anyone who refuses to get robbed and ultimately gets shot isn't faking. And lord knows anyone who outright snitches on criminal kingpins and dares them to fuck with him again isn't faking. Rap is FULL of rappers pretending to be something they're not; shit is basically wrestling brehs, and just about everyone except the Wu Tang is lying about shit they allegedly did. But name me some rappers that didn't back down when tested outside of Pac. I'll wait.

(Image removed from quote.)

ODB was three times the thug PAC was bro...get real ...bumpy knuckles....brotha lynch hung...etc hell biggie too

[jakefromstatefarm]

You can call him "fake" and laugh at his dance education all you want, but any black dude that shoots at police and beats the case isn't "fake" in my eyes. Anyone who refuses to get robbed and ultimately gets shot isn't faking. And lord knows anyone who outright snitches on criminal kingpins and dares them to fuck with him again isn't faking. Rap is FULL of rappers pretending to be something they're not; shit is basically wrestling brehs, and just about everyone except the Wu Tang is lying about shit they allegedly did. But name me some rappers that didn't back down when tested outside of Pac. I'll wait.

If Pac were alive in a post dotcom bubble America, this is what his KTT would read like.

[Phoenix Dark]

I forgot to note another reason Pac is popular: dude had some of the best production in rap for two years, during one of the most productive periods for the west coast. Dre, Quik, Daz, Johnny J, DJ Bobcat...

Tip: Big L would have been the GOAT if JayZ didn't have his ass shot.

Big L got killed as retaliation for shit his brother did in prison. That's a fact breh. And let's be real: Big L was just a punchline rapper. None of them stay dope for long. Hov was a well rounded rapper.

[Verdigris Murder]

http://cms.springboardplatform.com/embed_iframe/3017/video/811945/hspn006/thatshitbang.com/10

[Am_I_Anonymous]

DJ Quick



I don't judge rappers by albums...straight up battle rap nobody could beat him....hell even Eminem said so.

[Himu]

Pac is better than Big. Life After Death is mostly and you could tell his song quality trajectory was skewing downwards. I never really "got" Big.

Pac is better than Nas in specific things. Better production picks, better hooks and bridges and generally better song writer as PD said. However, Nas is my personal rap Fave even if I feel Pac is the GOAT.

The thing about Pac is a lot of his albums have a lot of filler, and as PD said his lyrics and stuff weren't as good as other rappers. Pac even acknowledged he wasn't a great rapper. But there was always something about Pac. The content in his best songs shatter the best of what his competition put out, I feel. Songs like Dear Mama, So Many Tears, Brenda's Got A Baby, and more just have a certain power to them, that I feel Pac could only provide. He's unique in that and it helps his music just resonated with more than any music figure in the 90's.

Big L was a whack ass battle rapper whose legacy has been turned into hyperbole by cacs due to his death. Guarantee if L didn't die, no one know who the fuck that man is today.

[Phoenix Dark]

ODB was three times the thug PAC was bro...get real ...bumpy knuckles....brotha lynch hung...etc hell biggie too

Already said Wu was real breh. Ghostface wasn't wearing a mask because he thought it was cool...

Bumpy Knuckles...dude doesn't pretend to be anything, he's the real deal. I'm talking about all these dudes putting on a front. Jeezy, Ross, TI, etc. None of them would do half the shit Pac did.


Biggie...yea, what a gangster...
http://www.thecoli.com/threads/biggie-to-e40-i-fukk-with-sprinke-me-duke-e-40-x-breakfast-club-interview.169855/#post-6441549

[Raban]

WRT Big L; he already had two albums worth of material and more unreleased and none of it is impressive in concept, it's all punchline battle rap. There's little actual great songwriting potential being displayed. As mediocre as Eminem's output was before he got swooped up by Iovine and turned into the perfect backdrop for dragonball z videos, he even was capable of writing narratives, you can see it in Infinite however small. Even with demo tape 1994 Jay-Z speed and battle rapping you could also see that he had realized the creative limits of ribibibidbiy speed rap and was playing around with narratives and concepts. I never saw any of that in Big L really.

[Human Snorenado]

Pac isn't in the same league as Biggie. Biggie is, imo, one of the GOATs- I stack him up with Guru and Slick Rick. I'm old as shit, though, so whatever.

Pac had a shit ton of output, which also helps contribute to his status. Further, he hit at just the right time, and was a bunch of white kids first exposure to rap. Mine was NWA, whatever.

[Am_I_Anonymous]

We'll agree  to disagree on L. I was there...dude hooked up with premiere and it would have been epic.

Remember I actually knew some of these guys...never met PAC but I heard dude was borderline crazy...so yeah I think he did shoot at cops more than once. Also heard he was a blow fiend and would friend dudes then stab them in the back.

Big was a legit thug. Make no mistake. Nas is a musician most of the shit he raps about he never did.

ODB I did meet...he,'s a scary motherfucker...Tang if full of legit killers bros...don't doubt it.

[Am_I_Anonymous]

We'll agree  to disagree on L. I was there...dude hooked up with premiere and it would have been epic.

Remember I actually knew some of these guys...never met PAC but I heard dude was borderline crazy...so yeah I think he did shoot at cops more than once. Also heard he was a blow fiend and would friend dudes then stab them in the back.

Big was a legit thug. Make no mistake. Nas is a musician most of the shit he raps about he never did.

ODB I did meet...he,'s a scary motherfucker...Tang if full of legit killers bros...don't doubt it.

[Am_I_Anonymous]

We'll agree  to disagree on L. I was there...dude hooked up with premiere and it would have been epic.

Remember I actually knew some of these guys...never met PAC but I heard dude was borderline crazy...so yeah I think he did shoot at cops more than once. Also heard he was a blow fiend and would friend dudes then stab them in the back.

Big was a legit thug. Make no mistake. Nas is a musician most of the shit he raps about he never did.

ODB I did meet...he,'s a scary motherfucker...Tang if full of legit killers bros...don't doubt it.

[Phoenix Dark]

AiA: Biggie knew Pac was about to get robbed and didn't say shit, despite them being friends. That's sucker shit. Same dudes who did it were juxing Diddy at the time.

[Am_I_Anonymous]

AiA: Biggie knew Pac was about to get robbed and didn't say shit, despite them being friends. That's sucker shit. Same dudes who did it were juxing Diddy at the time.

That's the PAC side bro. Other side says they tried to get down there when they heard shots...wasn't there don't know.

[Am_I_Anonymous]

No one has any info on the dick size issue?

Sorry for multiposts bore went nuts for a second or WiFi is fucking up.

[seagrams hotsauce]

Big L was a whack ass battle rapper whose legacy has been turned into hyperbole by cacs due to his death. Guarantee if L didn't die, no one know who the fuck that man is today.

Seriously. He'd be in the 'used rapper' bin at goodwill alongside Papoose, Red Cafe, and Uncle Murda. His whole legacy would be "There was a third dude in Children of the Corn?"

[Phoenix Dark]

Big L was a whack ass battle rapper whose legacy has been turned into hyperbole by cacs due to his death. Guarantee if L didn't die, no one know who the fuck that man is today.

Seriously. He'd be in the 'used rapper' bin at goodwill alongside Papoose, Red Cafe, and Uncle Murda. His whole legacy would be "There was a third dude in Children of the Corn?"

Now you've gone too far breh. I'm not gonna cosign Harlem feggitry just to pile on Big L. I'm drawing a line in the sand: Big L>>>Camron>Mase>McGruff.

[nudemacusers]

[seagrams hotsauce]

Big L was a whack ass battle rapper whose legacy has been turned into hyperbole by cacs due to his death. Guarantee if L didn't die, no one know who the fuck that man is today.

Seriously. He'd be in the 'used rapper' bin at goodwill alongside Papoose, Red Cafe, and Uncle Murda. His whole legacy would be "There was a third dude in Children of the Corn?"

Now you've gone too far breh. I'm not gonna cosign Harlem feggitry just to pile on Big L. I'm drawing a line in the sand: Big L>>>Camron>Mase>McGruff.

I'd say L was a much better rapper than either Mase or Cam, but he completely lacks the appeal those two have that would allow him to cross-over. Mase is an absolute garbage rapper, but he managed to use only real asset, his voice, to make some really strong pop hits. Cam probably wouldn't have been shit if he hadn't been able to pull of the Diplomats, but he managed to strike while the iron was hot in the early aughts and find some legitimate success. Bar for bar, L could rap circles around them both, but he's the archetype of 'rappy NYC rapper'. The audience for that kind of stuff is basically limited to 'real hip hop' types, which isn't very broad.

[nudemacusers]

"suck my dick through my dickies" a classic bar

[Himu]

I will say I think Pac was the best musician in rap history. I think that's a big distinction. Other rappers concentrate on being great rappers and not great musicians (talib). A great rapper does not a great musician make, and the reason I think Pac is what rap ever gave us is because he is among the very select few who recognized the distinction. Also, having a gay gene certainly helped his musician-ship.

[Human Snorenado]

I will say I think Pac was the best musician in rap history. I think that's a big distinction. Other rappers concentrate on being great rappers and not great musicians (talib). A great rapper does not a great musician make, and the reason I think Pac is what rap ever gave us is because he is among the very select few who recognized the distinction. Also, having a gay gene certainly helped his musician-ship.

"Bitch please"

[nudemacusers]

she said rap, not jimmy fallon's backing band

[Human Snorenado]

spoiler (click to show/hide)

Point still stands, tho

[close]

[jakefromstatefarm]

in terms of playing, writing, and producing music, Quik is by far and away the best musician that's been mentioned itt

[nudemacusers]

The one thing i'd have liked to see is if Pac and Biggie's ears for production would have endured, the latter especially.

puffy would have ruined him.

[Phoenix Dark]

The one thing i'd have liked to see is if Pac and Biggie's ears for production would have endured, the latter especially.

Biggie planned on doing a street album with RZA, Havoc, and some other grimy dudes on the boards. After that I'm sure he'd go back to in-house Bad Boy shit plus NY staples. His production would pretty much sound like Hov albums of the time+shiny suit shit.

[jakefromstatefarm]

Wait, Cam'ron is good? I think I've only ever heard that Hey Ma song, which wasn't too impressive. Dude can actually rap?

what follows is all you need to know about Dipset

[seagrams hotsauce]

Nah. I even think Camron > Big L. I don't really like Cam'ron at all as a person and can't stand his stanbase but he has a better catalogue than Big L. And his effect on internet rap culture is pretty hard to deny, plus he had the ability to be funny, even if it is in a 'you are an embarassment' way.

I agree that Cam made way more interesting music, but as far as technical ability is concerned L is far more capable.

[seagrams hotsauce]

The one thing i'd have liked to see is if Pac and Biggie's ears for production would have endured, the latter especially.

Biggie planned on doing a street album with RZA, Havoc, and some other grimy dudes on the boards. After that I'm sure he'd go back to in-house Bad Boy shit plus NY staples. His production would pretty much sound like Hov albums of the time+shiny suit shit.

You sure that isn't some internet rap lore? I remember reading the RZA said he was feeling nervous when he went into the studio to do Long Kiss Goodnight since Big and Rae were squabbling at the time. He said he went in, did the beat, and kept it moving, and Biggie died two months later.

[Mr. Nobody]

Hands down the most overrated man in hiphop.

I like some of his work, and even consider Me Against The World a classic, but come the fuck on already.

[Mr. Nobody]

she said rap, not jimmy fallon's backing band

Low-key, last quality Roots album was Game Theory

[jakefromstatefarm]

but as far as technical ability is concerned L is far more capable.

I feel like L's technical ability is understated whenever he's brought up, and whenever it is it's usually addressing his liggity spliggity rappity rap double time. His breath control and delivery on those radio freestyles was

[Mr. Nobody]

When it comes to many (if not most) metrics, Tupac wasn't better than many of his peers. From a lyrical perspective he wasn't as complex as Nas, Big, or Hov. If you look at his albums it's hard to argue he has anything as good as Illmatic, OB4CL, The Infamous, and a host of other classic albums of that era. However Tupac's greatness can be traced to a few specific things.

1) Songwriting. Lyrical miracle rappers don't understand that being super lyrical and being a great songwriter are two different things. Tupac may not have been able to match Nas in terms of song concepts, but as a songwriter I think he was better than his peers. Bridges, hooks, and the simple yet poetic lyrics of many of his best songs.

2) Delivery. Not much I can add that Esch didn't. He's up there with Chuck D and Scarface in terms of having the best voices in rap, and his delivery of lyrics often made the lyrics work.

3) Image. The sex appeal part isn't the only factor. Tupac might be one of the most forceful, charismatic dudes to ever rap. He couldn't be fucked with in terms of standing up for what he believed in, and playing whatever role he was playing.

You can call him "fake" and laugh at his dance education all you want, but any black dude that shoots at police and beats the case isn't "fake" in my eyes. Anyone who refuses to get robbed and ultimately gets shot isn't faking. And lord knows anyone who outright snitches on criminal kingpins and dares them to fuck with him again isn't faking. Rap is FULL of rappers pretending to be something they're not; shit is basically wrestling brehs, and just about everyone except the Wu Tang is lying about shit they allegedly did. But name me some rappers that didn't back down when tested outside of Pac. I'll wait.

(Image removed from quote.)

ODB was three times the thug PAC was bro...get real ...bumpy knuckles....brotha lynch hung...etc hell biggie too

I dunno breh

Word on the siccness is, that dude just raps

[Mr. Nobody]

Wait, Cam'ron is good? I think I've only ever heard that Hey Ma song, which wasn't too impressive. Dude can actually rap?

It's hard to say. On one hand, Dipset (and Cam) are completely, utterly moronic. On the other, they were good rappers with some solid swag songs and an undeniable sense of humor. They're little more than a gang of buffoons with mics but Cam and Juelz could definitely rap. Cam was the best of the group for sure, he had a sort of self awareness and lovable class clown persona that translated well to the scene at the time.

I'm loathe to praise them because Dipset on some level panders to the worst demographics in rap; morons with no values or goals and irony-thick hipsters.

Hell Rell was the best out of all of em. JR Writer had potential but he was forever the mixtape/punchline rapper

[nudemacusers]

cam'ron's whole ... schtick? facade? actual personality? was amusing for me since he successfully managed to be a 'tough guy' street-aspirations rapper dude (Whips on my fists, houses on my wrists, Your budget on my neck, your spouse on my dick)  but combined it with goofy rhymes (I get computers putin) so the whole effect is a jux that sounded like he was watching tv the whole time and cashing checks. at it's best it's a pretty compelling combo of superficial swag whip tunes, at it's worst it just sounds empty and annoying.

I will give him credit for staying in this lane vs, say, lil wayne, who took the nursery rhyme mantle and tried to get weirdly emotional-serious about it at random intervals. and ofc broke his mind on syrup and weed.

[parallax]

Wait, Cam'ron is good? I think I've only ever heard that Hey Ma song, which wasn't too impressive. Dude can actually rap?

what follows is all you need to know about Dipset

hood ninjas cutting 8 minute promos. that chain life is real apparently

[Himu]

I will say I think Pac was the best musician in rap history. I think that's a big distinction. Other rappers concentrate on being great rappers and not great musicians (talib). A great rapper does not a great musician make, and the reason I think Pac is what rap ever gave us is because he is among the very select few who recognized the distinction. Also, having a gay gene certainly helped his musician-ship.

"Bitch please"

(Image removed from quote.)

I distinctly was talking about rappers.

[Himu]

cam'ron's whole ... schtick? facade? actual personality? was amusing for me since he successfully managed to be a 'tough guy' street-aspirations rapper dude (Whips on my fists, houses on my wrists, Your budget on my neck, your spouse on my dick)  but combined it with goofy rhymes (I get computers putin ) so the whole effect is a jux that sounded like he was watching tv the whole time and cashing checks. at it's best it's a pretty compelling combo of superficial swag whip tunes, at it's worst it just sounds empty and annoying.

And therein lies the reason why white hipsters love him so much, he's unserious, you don't really need to like hip hop or take it seriously as an artform in order to like him. He's a jester, a clown. A minstrel show

Side note: I hate that people seem to be so down on Life After Death , I love that album, it's so smooth and luxurious and big budget. It might not be super deep but I'll be damned if it isn't a paid vacation to Vegas on wax.

No Way Out > Life After Death

[Himu]

Yes.

[Mr. Nobody]

Hell Rell was the best out of all of em. JR Writer had potential but he was forever the mixtape/punchline rapper

get the entire fuck out of here


(Image removed from quote.)

It's Dipset breh...pickings are slim

btw nice pic

[team filler]

big made ready to die and I love that album, but I wouldn't give up all eyes on me or me against the world for it.

pun was a better rapper than big, but big made better songs and had a better album. I still consider pun the goat new york rapper.

[Mr. Nobody]

Claim Juelz Santana can rap brehs

"My gun hotter then the stove is on
So hot even I thought the stove was on
But the stove was off"

 

[Steve Contra]

No Way Out > Life After Death

The fuck is this shit.  Stay in Texas, we don't need you.

[Himu]

I don't stan No Way Out at all. I just think it's better than Life After Death.