It's 20XX and people are mad online about Star War!

[benjipwns]

Rose is pretty hideous, so is Finn.

Wow could have confused this for a TIMU post.

[Great Rumbler]

Not to take a shot at one of my two favorite Bore mods but*.... A New Hope and Phantom Menace both got multiple wide theatrical re-releases that are counted in their domestic totals.

I wasn't going to bring numbers into this, but since you're impugning my integrity here and suggesting I didn't do my homework:

ANH - $307 million* [$460 million total]
ESB - $209 million [$290 million total]
ROTJ - $252 million [$309 million total]

TPM - $431 million [$474 million total]
AOTC - $302 million [$310 million total
ROTS - $380 million [$380 million total]

*ANH's numbers are a bit harder to accurately calculate because it didn't have a traditional blockbuster release. From 77 to 82 it's presence in theaters ebbed and flowed quite a bit, so teasing out what would be considered it's initial box office total separate from it's re-release total isn't easy to do. What I've pieced together is that it made at least $215 million by mid-78 and $307 million before coming back to theaters in mid-82.

**StarWars.com, in their Star Wars Saga US release and re-release timeline, states that ANH earned $307 million during its "first 18 months."

So get bent, benji.

[benjipwns]

It's hilarious that you continue to ignore the facts by once again presenting misleading numbers. Notice the paltry differences that are less than the budgets of the first three films combined. And then look at the trend in the current trilogy:

TFA: $937 million
TLJ: $323 million
EIX: $0

The franchise collapse is obvious and irreversible at this point.

[agrajag]

Rose is pretty hideous, so is Finn.

Wow could have confused this for a TIMU post.

Two uggos kissing 

[etiolate]

wow way to be racist against eskimos

next thing I know, you'll be calling Chewbacca ugly just because you hate Italians

[Great Rumbler]

It's hilarious that you continue to ignore the facts by once again presenting misleading numbers. Notice the paltry differences that are less than the budgets of the first three films combined. And then look at the trend in the current trilogy:

TFA: $937 million
TLJ: $323 million
EIX: $0

The franchise collapse is obvious and irreversible at this point.

Wow, low-energy benji resorting to arguing in bad faith once his failing arguments are exposed? Sad!

[Stoney Mason]

[VomKriege]

Mark Hamill said it was shit.

Wow barely hiding his veiled alt right opinions. What next, that he doesn't Snyder's films?

[benjipwns]

No, the DCEU is the alt-right's gamergate film franchise. Or was at least.

[chronovore]

This is wayyyyy too accurate for YouTuber bullshit.

[Stoney Mason]

This is wayyyyy too accurate for YouTuber bullshit.

Yeah they are great with their take off on Kylo

[Great Rumbler]

So, surprising no one at this point, apparently Disney thinks that the Han Solo movie is a total stinkburger that's gonna bomb big time. Would be pretty hilarious if they just outright cancelled it.

[Cerveza mas fina]

Finally got to see it last night.

Opening was good, then I was semi bored for a while, then the movie really picked up towards the end and I thought it was pretty good.

Maybe there was a bit too much comic relief, and a bit too much disney (how many cute creatures do we need?) but over the twists were good and some of the battles looked great. Happy JJ will be back on the last one though.

Will def want to watch it a few times more

Went in without reading any reviews and only saw one trailer.

[Kara]

Before the movie started there was an insufferable Ready Player One trailer (redundant -ed.) that had a snippet of unit RX-78-2 in it. In retrospect that snippet was rather sibylline as The Last Jedi’s narrative fulcrum comes straight out of a Mobile Suit Zeta Gundam filler episode.

[Kara]

What I’m trying to say is this: Rian Johnson’s soul is weighed down by gravity.

[chronovore]

KARA'S BACK!

[Momo]

The fact that JJ and Rian Johnson are using Star Wars to play a game of cliffhanger/challenge between each other should tell you all you need to know about how they see star wars and how much you should care about it.

[agrajag]

So, surprising no one at this point, apparently Disney thinks that the Han Solo movie is a total stinkburger that's gonna bomb big time. Would be pretty hilarious if they just outright cancelled it.

I wonder how much they are gonna try to whitewash Han. That Dj character was a real scoundrel. I would enjoy seeing Han Solo portrayed that type of morally gray, but not holding my breath for it.

[paprikastaude]

The fact that JJ and Rian Johnson are using Star Wars to play a game of cliffhanger/challenge between each other should tell you all you need to know about how they see star wars and how much you should care about it.

tbh I was kind of shocked to find out that they didn't think about the story and cliffhangers beyond Ep7. I guess that's what JJ already did with Lost, though that wasn't exactly on the level of the SW IP given to him.

[Himu]

this did feel like a filler ep of Zeta Gundam

Kylo Ren or Hux might as well be Jared.

[Cerveza mas fina]

Uuh gundam zeta 

[Himu]

Uuh gundam zeta 

[Joe Molotov]

Uuh Mobile Suit Zeta Gundamu

[kingv]

The fact that JJ and Rian Johnson are using Star Wars to play a game of cliffhanger/challenge between each other should tell you all you need to know about how they see star wars and how much you should care about it.

tbh I was kind of shocked to find out that they didn't think about the story and cliffhangers beyond Ep7. I guess that's what JJ already did with Lost, though that wasn't exactly on the level of the SW IP given to him.

I too am surprised but in retrospect feel like I really shouldn’t be surprised and yet I am.

It’s kind of crazy that Jj was just dropping clues in TFA with no real story arc in mind. Because it’s a huge franchise and it’s borderline irresponsible to just make up each movie with no idea what’s going to happen in the next one.

But then again, he did exactly that for 6 years in Lost.

Also agree Han solo is going to suck. They should just cancel it.

[VomKriege]

Well, I mean, JJ Abrams didn't make the film without a greenlight from Disney/Lucasfilm every step of the way... I guess what happened is that they had some deadlines to hit and no time to waste on writing two more films when they had that huge heavy production to get out of the door. Whatever comes next is contingent to what form that first end product took and how well it was received, all the more since we all know the shit has been & will be analysed and focus-tested to death down to the smallest detail. Literal billions of dollars are in the balance after all.

I understand we're talking about some general outline here, not even full fledge scripts, but I suspect it's proof that everything in the story is amenable to whatever has been determined to be the optimal film for profitability and sustaining the franchise as long as possible. JJ Abrams & the rest of the creative team was probably tasked with making something unmistakably Star Wars-ish and fill it with enough material that they could pick and choose elements to build a sequel.

Besides it is obvious that Lucas kind of make up the Skywalker family tree, not a minor detail by any means, as he went along so...

[Himu]

Well, I mean, JJ Abrams didn't make the film without a greenlight from Disney/Lucasfilm every step of the way... I guess what happened is that they had some deadlines to hit and no time to waste on writing two more films when they had that huge heavy production to get out of the door. Whatever comes next is contingent to what form that first end product took and how well it was received, all the more since we all know the shit has been & will be analysed and focus-tested to death down to the smallest detail. Literal billions of dollars are in the balance after all.

I understand we're talking about some general outline here, not even full fledge scripts, but I suspect it's proof that everything in the story is amenable to whatever has been determined to be the optimal film for profitability and sustaining the franchise as long as possible.

Besides it is obvious that Lucas kind of make up the Skywalker family tree, not a minor detail by any means, as he went along so...

Everything in Jedi seems mostly set up by Empire, though. I don't think you can say that Jedi made everything up as it went along. Not like what they're doing now. It seems with Empire they came up with a long term plan for the rest of the story but not so much with TLJ.

Also, it's easy to forgive the original trilogy because ANH was supposed to be a one off and not have a sequel. This new trilogy doesn't have that excuse. So it looks way worse imo.

[Boredfrom]

The fact that JJ and Rian Johnson are using Star Wars to play a game of cliffhanger/challenge between each other should tell you all you need to know about how they see star wars and how much you should care about it.

tbh I was kind of shocked to find out that they didn't think about the story and cliffhangers beyond Ep7. I guess that's what JJ already did with Lost, though that wasn't exactly on the level of the SW IP given to him.

I too am surprised but in retrospect feel like I really shouldn’t be surprised and yet I am.

It’s kind of crazy that Jj was just dropping clues in TFA with no real story arc in mind. Because it’s a huge franchise and it’s borderline irresponsible to just make up each movie with no idea what’s going to happen in the next one.

But then again, he did exactly that for 6 years in Lost.

Also agree Han solo is going to suck. They should just cancel it.

J.J has made clear that he likes mysteries, not resolving them. I most surprised that Disney didn’t care enough to have at least some sort of road map beyond “whatever we feel at the moment”. Maybe they truly needed the EU as a backbone than JJ Abrams hollow pitch.

[kingv]

This is why Lost was one of my favorite series up until the post by where i realized that the mysteries would never be resolved.

IMO, it’s a really cheap way to engage fans and write a story. I’m pretty sure that the last of the trilogy is going to end and we still aren’t going to know who Snoke is, or how the movies went from “winning” at the end of ROTJ to “losing” in TFA. It will probably be addressed in a comic book eventually or some dumb shit, written by some nobody at Marvel and be incredibly anticlimactic, like 3PO’s red arm...

But they won’t be allowed to fill in the blanks until after the script is finalized for the third movie (at the very earliest) just in case they decide to do something with it in the 3rd film. I expect the fan backlash to be possibly bigger in the third one, given that JJ is directing it, and knowing how he “resolved” the mysteries in Lost.

[VomKriege]

Everything in Jedi seems mostly set up by Empire, though. I don't think you can say that Jedi made everything up as it went along. Not like what they're doing now. It seems with Empire they came up with a long term plan for the rest of the story but not so much with TLJ.

Also, it's easy to forgive the original trilogy because ANH was supposed to be a one off and not have a sequel. This new trilogy doesn't have that excuse. So it looks way worse imo.

Oh I'm not excusing anything. Alleging it's a purely commercial-driven endeavour isn't exactly praise. I don't value very highly the idea of those pre-planned grand writing master plans anyway. The only epic, high budget example that works as a whole is maybe Lords of the Rings and it was built on the back of very strong and solid books and they managed to have a draconian production setup to ensure cohesiveness. I think 100% of the time "story consistency" or "canon" should lose to what would make the film work better as a single, stand alone, piece.

As for RotJ, I was only speaking of the Leia-Luke being siblings. It's not minor but I guess you could argue it's not that important either (it basically nips in the bud a love triangle in an uninteresting way and give some more stature to her). Maybe RotJ is indeed a good wrap up of the whole story but really, and I guess it's my point, it's a fairly weak film on its own and a bit of a rehash of ANH (and I don't think it's a controversial opinion to hold).

Overall I agree it is a bit bonkers they don't even have some sort of outline (one specific to the main characters) but I'm not sure having one would really be of any weight to the quality (or lack thereof) of Star Wars © film X as a film.

[Himu]

That's fair.

[seagrams hotsauce]

The fact that JJ and Rian Johnson are using Star Wars to play a game of cliffhanger/challenge between each other should tell you all you need to know about how they see star wars and how much you should care about it.

tbh I was kind of shocked to find out that they didn't think about the story and cliffhangers beyond Ep7. I guess that's what JJ already did with Lost, though that wasn't exactly on the level of the SW IP given to him.

I too am surprised but in retrospect feel like I really shouldn’t be surprised and yet I am.

It’s kind of crazy that Jj was just dropping clues in TFA with no real story arc in mind. Because it’s a huge franchise and it’s borderline irresponsible to just make up each movie with no idea what’s going to happen in the next one.

But then again, he did exactly that for 6 years in Lost.

Also agree Han solo is going to suck. They should just cancel it.

He didn't do that for six years on Lost; he did it for one season, bounced the fuck outta there, got an EP credit, and made a million other things as Kirkman, Orci, and Lindeloff ran it into the ground. This is what he's done since forever, at least on TV; start something, throw a bunch of intriguing shit in the air, then walk away and let the other producers and writers figure it out; he did it with Lost, Fringe, POI, Alcatraz, that's just off the top of my head.

The real surprise is that his ass finally has to finish something he started with IX, and has to finish a trilogy where he only has any narrative control over the bookends. It's like the worlds dumbest and most expensive version of Exquisite Corpse.

[chronovore]

And with Fringe and PoI, those shows evolve significantly from their initial inception. Fringe goes from X-Files-esque to transdimensional transchronological existential SF, and PoI goes from mismatched crimestoppers to a criticism of the surveillance state and cursory examination of the influence of AI on society.

…and by that I mean they benefited from JJ's exit.

[Himu]

So will ep IX expose JJ or has VIII already achieved that?

The more time goes on the more I think JJ is partially to blame for VIII's problems as much as Rian's since JJ gave no blueprint for characters like Finn and Poe. In fact, I think you could easily blame JJ more. Considering what little Rian had, TLJ makes some sizable, incredible feats.

Basically, fuck JJ.

[BlueTsunami]

History has already exposed JJ. IX will be a fun unfulfilling romp which strangely fits the tone of the trilogy so far.

[BlueTsunami]

If JJ were a true auteur we'd get a graphic scene of Rey birthing the God Jedi born purely from the force like Anakin. I'm talking fury Jakku vag, split taint, screaming baby.

[seagrams hotsauce]

So will ep IX expose JJ or has VIII already achieved that?

The more time goes on the more I think JJ is partially to blame for VIII's problems as much as Rian's since JJ gave no blueprint for characters like Finn and Poe. In fact, I think you could easily blame JJ more. Considering what little Rian had, TLJ makes some sizable, incredible feats.

Basically, fuck JJ.

Eh I disagree. I haven't seen TLJ so I'm not saying this from any personal perspective, but I've read the spoilers and Rian Johnson's response to the criticism, and from what I can tell a lot of the dialogue about fan disappointment is around 'expectation'. When JJ introduces the dharma initiative and a bunker and a fucking polar bear on a tropical island and other such cryptic shit and then leaves, that's pretty dickish. But when he tees up a teaser as obvious as like "Luke is Reys father" was in TFA for example, and the next guy decides "actually her parents are just nobodies" I can't really blame the first dude when people get upset. He might not have set up a roadmap, but he also didn't expect to have any involvement past the first one, and he's been down the road of raising questions that the audience can't draw their own conclusions to and want specific answers for.

Anyway, it's not surprising that JJ set up the biggest franchise in history with no real bigger picture in mind as to where it will go as a trilogy. It is surprising that Disney would let this shit of the gate without locking down a general outline that the writers and directors would adhere to. Maybe the "the buck stops at Kathleen Kennedys desk" theory was true after all, for better or worse 

[Stoney Mason]

Yeah I don't buy this idea that it's somehow JJ's fault that the last jedi doesn't leave enough mystery (or interesting stuff in general) for the third film.

Empire strikes back creates the mysteries that drive itself by building on the first film or creating them as new things. In some cases not using explicit hooks left by the first film.

Rian Johnson chose to make the film he made. You can love it or hate it but those were his choices. He could have either built on the framework of the first film or created his own hooks for the next film that were compelling. It was in his power. Now if you are fine with the movie he made and didn't want such setups then that's fine too but its not like he didn't have the power to create what he wanted.

Yes I would argue that if you want a more cohesive whole, you can have somebody who is in charge of the whole production create a story bible or something but that wasn't JJ's job. His job was to create a fun movie that set the table. It did set the table. You may not personally like how the table was set for the next film but it was set. And it wasn't set in such a way as in Lost with things that would be impossible to ever flesh out.

Rian Johnson chose to go a different direction on some things. And that's fine. But those were his choices. He wrote the story. It wasn't like he was a director for hire that had no control. And the end result is his film's flaws and good things both. Same as with Force Awakens which has its own set of pros and cons.

[TVC15]

So will ep IX expose JJ or has VIII already achieved that?

The more time goes on the more I think JJ is partially to blame for VIII's problems as much as Rian's since JJ gave no blueprint for characters like Finn and Poe. In fact, I think you could easily blame JJ more. Considering what little Rian had, TLJ makes some sizable, incredible feats.

Basically, fuck JJ.

You start out saying you liked TFA more, and now you’re at “fuck JJ.” This has truly been a Cindi discussion.

[Himu]

Uh, don't misunderstand.

I like TFA way more. But that doesn't really excuse JJ not plotting an outline.

[TVC15]

Uh, don't misunderstand.

I like TFA way more. But that doesn't really excuse JJ not plotting an outline.

This is still a nudge from your initial position. You’re letting the TLJ apologists influence you. The fact that you’re still involved in this discussion shows that you want to believe. Escape with your taste, Cindi.

[Momo]

If JJ were a true auteur we'd get a graphic scene of Rey birthing the God Jedi born purely from the force like Anakin. I'm talking fury Jakku vag, split taint, screaming baby.

overfiend flashbacks?

[TVC15]

If JJ were a true auteur we'd get a graphic scene of Rey birthing the God Jedi born purely from the force like Anakin. I'm talking fury Jakku vag, split taint, screaming baby.

overfiend flashbacks?

Star Wars would require a few death rape machines to save it at this point.

[Momo]

If JJ were a true auteur we'd get a graphic scene of Rey birthing the God Jedi born purely from the force like Anakin. I'm talking fury Jakku vag, split taint, screaming baby.

overfiend flashbacks?

Star Wars would require a few death rape machines to save it at this point.

Let's have a laser sword coming out of a space floating leia's vagina as she space floats spread eagle towards the camera, + or - JJ Abrams face superimposed over the whole thing, i'll leave that up to the director.

[Himu]

Uh, don't misunderstand.

I like TFA way more. But that doesn't really excuse JJ not plotting an outline.

This is still a nudge from your initial position. You’re letting the TLJ apologists influence you. The fact that you’re still involved in this discussion shows that you want to believe. Escape with your taste, Cindi.

True.

[BlueTsunami]

If JJ were a true auteur we'd get a graphic scene of Rey birthing the God Jedi born purely from the force like Anakin. I'm talking fury Jakku vag, split taint, screaming baby.

overfiend flashbacks?

Star Wars would require a few death rape machines to save it at this point.

Let's have a laser sword coming out of a space floating leia's vagina as she space floats spread eagle towards the camera, + or - JJ Abrams face superimposed over the whole thing, i'll leave that up to the director.

I'd totally learn digital video editing just to make this happen

[Stoney Mason]

I still feel like nobody is quite having the discussion I want to see on the film. It's all very polarizing.

One side spends their time nit picking minor plot points I don't give a shit about or are fanatical lore purists.

1.) Luke would never do that!
2.) Suicide lightspeed Bullshit!
3.) How dare there be humour in my serious business story about people running about with light sabers!
4.) Force ghosts with powers! Franchise ruined!!!!


The other side seems to believe they just watched the equivalent of the seven samurai in Star Wars disguise. A movie so thematically rich it just reinvented the star wars franchise forever and how normal plot mechanics that exists in any other genre are a machiavellian subversion of Star Wars tropes nobody ever dared thought of before.

It's weird.

I just see it as a rather average film that is still probably good but has a whole bunch of flaws beyond just trying to nitpick wookieepedia elements.

I think you can probably have a good conversation in a few months or a year down the road about the movie but it seems impossible at the moment.

[Himu]

Oh come on Stoney. Everyone in this thread who has criticized this movie hasn't resorted to dumbass critiques like "Luke wouldn't do that" and I honestly find your making fun of criticisms of the humor to be highly reductive. It really did take me out of the movie.

[TVC15]

I think you can probably have a good conversation in a few months or a year down the road about the movie but it seems impossible at the moment.

There’s no further good conversation until the third movie comes out, when TLJ will be either confirmed as the smelly garbage it is, or it will be vindicated even though it is smelly garbage.

[Stoney Mason]

Oh come on Stoney. Everyone in this thread who has criticized this movie hasn't resorted to dumbass critiques like "Luke wouldn't do that" and I honestly find your making fun of criticisms of the humor to be highly reductive. It really did take me out of the movie.

A.) I didn't say the people in this thread are the most guilty parties. Whenever I talk about people in general I'm almost never talking about just the bore. I'm talking about the general talk over the internet in general. Let's be honest. There isn't enough talk on the bore overall to make sweeping statement about anything. We are niche and for the most part none of us overly tend to polarize ourselves. It ain't cool.

B.) I think the criticisms about the humour are silly. Especially in this franchise which is laced with silly humour while a galactic civil war rages that slaughters millions. That's part of the charm of the franchise. It puts the silly next to a man in a dark mask who magically mind chokes people. Star Wars taking itself with too much gravitas is more of a problem to me than the other way around. But you are entitled to a different take.

[Momo]

I've been clear from the start, not a Star Wars fanatic so I can't give a shit about lore, simply think it's a bad movie (for many reasons) but dont care enough about what I equate to a marvel movie to discuss it in detail. Just in here to take potshots at SW fans because I'm still mad about Star Trek

[Himu]

Oh come on Stoney. Everyone in this thread who has criticized this movie hasn't resorted to dumbass critiques like "Luke wouldn't do that" and I honestly find your making fun of criticisms of the humor to be highly reductive. It really did take me out of the movie.

A.) I didn't say the people in this thread are the most guilty parties. Whenever I talk about people in general I'm almost never talking about just the bore. I'm talking about the general talk over the internet in general. Let's be honest. There isn't enough talk on the bore overall to make sweeping statement about anything. We are niche and for the most part none of us overly tend to polarize ourselves. It ain't cool.

B.) I think the criticisms about the humour are silly. Especially in this franchise which is laced with silly humour while a galactic civil war rages that slaughters millions. That's part of the charm of the franchise. It puts the silly next to a man in a dark mask who magically mind chokes people. Star Wars taking itself with too much gravitas is more of a problem to me than the other way around. But you are entitled to a different take.

Humor in itself isn't bad. But for me my problem is how obtrusive it was. Like when they're talking to Maz. It couldn't just be a regular ass scene articulating their situation to her. Nope. She has to act like a wild ass cartoon character during this serious moment that has the crew deadlocked in space. ESB and ROTJ are the perfect mixes of humor and seriousness, at least for me. I thought the tone didn't feel Star Wars. Star Wars has light hearted humor, true. But I felt TFA handled it far better.

[paprikastaude]

 

[BlueTsunami]

This fall the CW presents...

[etiolate]

I enjoyed TLJ, but said it had flaws. My concern is the overall flaws of the current approach: Multiple Directors leading to no coherent design and the current plotline feeling like an alternate universe rather than the natural outcome of the Lucasfilms.

[team filler]

when does the chewbacca movie come out?

[ToxicAdam]

TLJ could've been directed by David Chase. It's all the same shit he used to do in the Sopranos that drove fans crazy.

[Stoney Mason]

Nothing else really matters, or happens. Finn has no real arc - he goes on a meaningless mission that does nothing but inadvertently get a ton of people killed, and he gets a revenge showdown with Phasma, who is barely a character. Poe has no real arc either - he leads a meaningless mutiny that also has zero bearing on the plot except to get a bunch of people killed, as above. Holdo is introduced and killed off in one movie. Rose exists so that Finn will have a companion on this meaningless mission that the writers cooked up to give him something to do.

By splitting up the characters so much you barely get any interaction between the main characters which is generally my favorite part of Star Wars movies. Especially the force awakens. Like I said in my opinion of the movie, if the side stuff they were doing was just utterly fascinating or cool or fun then you can get away with it. But they spent so much time on plotlines that were barely interesting and didn't really resolve themselves into anything significant. That's why it feels so disjointed to me.

It's why none of my issues are simple lore stuff about who shouldn't do what or humour stuff,etc. It's more really basic stuff about how you create momentum or interesting moments in a movie.

[etiolate]

I just realized Holdo is Lucille Bluth.



"We are all going to be stranded in space with no fuel and killed. Do you at least have any plan of attack? Anything to share? You want to tell the rest of us?"

[TVC15]

Just watched Halloween Resurrection, a much more imaginative eighth entry in a franchise than TLJ.

[etiolate]

Now I want to take the TLJ = AD in space analogy further.

Holdo = Lucille Bluth.: Old bitch gets off on being withholding for own vanity.
Rey = Michael Bluth : The Good One. Tries to make things work.
Kylo = Gob. Obsessed with Rey/Michael in uncomfortable way.  Not related, but you thought they might be. Wonders why Rey/Michael is not impressed by his magic.
Finn = Buster. Runs away from his fellow soldiers. Goes back to safety of a home that is actually not safe for him at all.
Rose = the Seal. Fucks over Buster/Finn in his moment.