Street Fighter V: Super $60 Server-Beta Test Edition - Season 2 Underway!

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It seems to me the new barometer for fighters is Namco.

Tekken Tag 2 has a robust tutorial mode, great gameplay, tons of content, great online, little dlc.

Tekken 7 is the fighting game to beat. Not MKX. Watch.

And no, I'm not talking about sales.

There's also BlazBlue. BlazBlue has a shit ton of characters, tons of content, decent online, active community, lots of modes, a tutorial mode that actually teaches the game;etc

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Killer Instinct

spoiler (click to show/hide)

I've actually hardly touched it. Liked what I played though.

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Killer Instinct and DOALR seem to be pretty good models for a f2p fighter.

SFV should have been f2p and premium, with an arcade mode in box.

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Hey, time to play some SFV and--

We are extending our maintenance indefinitely. We apologize for the inconvenience and hope to reopen ASAP.

Tekken 7 is the fighting game to beat. Not MKX. Watch.

And no, I'm not talking about sales.

Gotta wait for the home release before you can say that.  They were clearly testing DLC and microtransaction models with Tekken Revolution and Soul Calibur Lost Swords.

There's also BlazBlue. BlazBlue has a shit ton of characters, tons of content, decent online, active community, lots of modes, a tutorial mode that actually teaches the game;etc
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...And BlazBlue has the unfortunate problem of getting updates sold as new games an almost yearly basis.

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Jim Sterling has proclaimed games like this, Battlefront, and Siege as "Early AAAccess."  I like it! 

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Servers are back up...for now.

[Mods Help]

Hey, time to play some SFV and--

We are extending our maintenance indefinitely. We apologize for the inconvenience and hope to reopen ASAP.

Tekken 7 is the fighting game to beat. Not MKX. Watch.

And no, I'm not talking about sales.

Gotta wait for the home release before you can say that.  They were clearly testing DLC and microtransaction models with Tekken Revolution and Soul Calibur Lost Swords.

There's also BlazBlue. BlazBlue has a shit ton of characters, tons of content, decent online, active community, lots of modes, a tutorial mode that actually teaches the game;etc

...And BlazBlue has the unfortunate problem of getting updates sold as new games an almost yearly basis.
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It seems no fighting game these days is perfect. Most have a host of issues.

SFV - we know its issues
MKX - dlc characters, broken netcode, entire abandoned platforms, emphasis on superfluous modes than on online
BB - too many updates, wtf story
GG - dlc characters

Street Fighter IV series and Virtua Fighter 5 series remain the most consistent. Virtua Fighter 5 FS is the bees knees and VF is likely dead. There's KI but that requires an Xbox One (and what fighting game fan is going to have a One for one game?). Thankfully it's coming to pc, but it requires Windows 10. Even that has its its issues.

Let's hope Tekken 7 is more in line with TTTT. Tekekn Tag 2 is such a quality product. I feel like they were probably testing the waters with f2p, but considering how long they've been taking with Tekken 7 home release, I think we're in for a treat.

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[bork]

Just beat a higher-ranked Laura player and knocked him out of his league down back into Bronze.  Didn't know that could happen.  That's gonna lead to a lot of salt.

Forgot to mention...got my first hate mail today!  It's a lot more a rare occurrence in this game.  I miss it.  :'(

[Mods Help]

No hate mail but I've gotten rage quits.

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Jim Sterling has proclaimed games like this, Battlefront, and Siege as "Early AAAccess."  I like it! 

Great rebuttals on gaf.

I still never get why SP only at $60 is fine but MP only at $60 is not good. Even when the SP only usually has far less replayability.

I should clarify. I don't agree with Jim here. Battlefront and R6 are continuing the new trend that TitanFall started. Selling a multiplayer only game for 60, with the same amount of content a multiplayer side would receive last gen. One side of the coin. Is this good? Subjective. Is this Early Access? Not at all. Add to that more games adopting the MOBA dlc model, and dicey microtransactions. Some people don't want to pay 60$ for those games, but they're not early access.

Not that I agree with what Capcom released for SFV final release, but having a more multi-player focus does not mean the game is early access. Is MKX early access because it has no working netcode? That seems to stress single player to me. Saying the game is early access exposes your own priorities. It's one thing to say "well SOME of us care about single player" but can't see the other side of the coin and deem one game early access but label a game with broken netcode and unplayable on an entire platform as a finished product even if online play is a huge element of this genre.

It's funny how the SP camp are saying us MP people are biased, but they're not willing to see their own. Not finding MP palpable doesn't mean it's early access, it just means the content doesn't appeal to you.

[nachobro]

Fwiw MKX new online is actually quite good, at least on XB1

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Great rebuttals on gaf.

They're rebuttals.  I dunno about the "great" part. 

I still never get why SP only at $60 is fine but MP only at $60 is not good. Even when the SP only usually has far less replayability.

That's not what Jim was talking about.  This guy missed the point completely.  He is calling these games "Early AAAccess" because they are missing content and standard and/or promised features when they are released, not because they are multiplayer-only.  He is harping on them for being unfinished games being sold for $59.99.

I should clarify. I don't agree with Jim here. Battlefront and R6 are continuing the new trend that TitanFall started. Selling a multiplayer only game for 60, with the same amount of content a multiplayer side would receive last gen. One side of the coin. Is this good? Subjective. Is this Early Access? Not at all. Add to that more games adopting the MOBA dlc model, and dicey microtransactions. Some people don't want to pay 60$ for those games, but they're not early access.

Also misses the point.  Titanfall did not ship feeling like it was incomplete.  It received new content, but did not feel like the multiplayer was lacking in modes and the online worked right out of the gate.

Is MKX early access because it has no working netcode?

That's a moot point, because it has working netcode.  It isn't the greatest netcode, but that's a different topic.  That game shipped with tons of content. 

That
It's funny how the SP camp are saying us MP people are biased, but they're not willing to see their own. Not finding MP palpable doesn't mean it's early access, it just means the content doesn't appeal to you.

You seem to be missing the point here as well.  Again...the game has clearly released in an unfinished state. 

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Fwiw MKX new online is actually quite good, at least on XB1

I haven't touched MKX in months.  Did it roll out yet or this is from beta testing?

[nachobro]

Beta. I believe the netcode, balance changes, and DLC rolls out for real on March 1

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Cleared Survival Normal with Chun (Alt) and Cammy on Steam last night.  Same thing as what happened on PS4-- steamrolled on the first playthrough with Cammy, then struggled to beat it with Chun.  Night and day difference with the AI.

Is there not a way to tell who is actually online on your favorites list?  It will show what people are doing, but this includes offline users. 

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menu generally means they're offline i've found

[Mr. Nobody]

Watch it be like March 22nd or some shit

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menu generally means they're offline i've found

See, I dunno- one of my buddies was clearly not online and it said he was in training mode.  I'm wondering if he had the game running and put the PS4 in rest mode, and CFN registered it as still active.

Watch it be like March 22nd or some shit

This is what I'm expecting.

[Mr. Nobody]

I tried Hard survival for kicks.




I'm much more comfortable losing at 15 than getting all the way to 49 or 50 and then dying though.

[Bebpo]

I was trying out Bison and WTF he still has charge moves 
I thought the idea was they were taking charge motions completely out of the game since like every other charge character became QCF/QCB/FDF.

Also from an outsider noobie perspective, it really seems like SFV was made by nerfing every returning character hard and making everyone weak as fuck in an attempt to balance everyone.  Like Bison loses his human torpedo iconic move that wrecks beginners who don't know how to block in exchange for a dinky fireball?  I'm ok with it, just saying it feels like everyone got really weak in SFV.

[Beezy]

So many scrub Ken's online last night, Jesus Christ. They basically boosted me to bronze level while I was trying to learn Karin. Hopefully there will be more variety tonight.

Also finally realized how bad my execution is when it comes to fighters. I gotta practice.

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I was trying out Bison and WTF he still has charge moves 
I thought the idea was they were taking charge motions completely out of the game since like every other charge character became QCF/QCB/FDF.

There are less full charge-based characters (right now FANG is the only one) and the others have some charge moves.  There's also no 'complex' charge supers.

Also from an outsider noobie perspective, it really seems like SFV was made by nerfing every returning character hard and making everyone weak as fuck in an attempt to balance everyone.  Like Bison loses his human torpedo iconic move that wrecks beginners who don't know how to block in exchange for a dinky fireball?  I'm ok with it, just saying it feels like everyone got really weak in SFV.

I'm not seeing that at all.  And Bison didn't have the psycho crusher in Street Fighter Alpha and Alpha 2 (it was added to X-Ism Bison in A3) as a normal move either.  Much like those games, in this game it's his super.  And he doesn't need it at all.

[bork]

What I've been encountering more and more turtlers.  This game is amazingly turtle-friendly even with characters like Balrog and Guile in it right now.    I would turtle right back and watch as we both would just sit there crouching.  I beat one Ken player who kept doing this, expecting me to jump in I guess, and I would just throw him.  Over and over again.  For three fuckin' games straight. 

[Beezy]

Just recently learned that R. Mika's mic promos makes her command grabs stronger.

[Mods Help]

Fang isn't the only fully charge character. Chun Li is as well. Her legs don't count because her legs have never been charge.

IMO, if you have one chage, you're a charge character.

So Fang, Necalli, Bison, Chun are all charge to me.

[mormapope]

While its easy to classify most characters that have charges as charge characters, sometimes the label doesn't make as much sense for other characters.

Dudley had a charge attack in SFIV, and he's the farthest thing from a charge character. Gen also had a charge attack, but you need to land his charge attack, change his combat style, and then do his airborne bicycle kicks (dragon punch input), all in a sequence for a combo.

For me, a traditional charge character means holding down back or back constantly to ready a charge up, move around, start charging again, move around, ect. If your mind is always on having a charge ready, and you're willing to constantly adapt to have a charge ready, its a charge character.

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Fang isn't the only fully charge character. Chun Li is as well. Her legs don't count because her legs have never been charge.

IMO, if you have one chage, you're a charge character.

So Fang, Necalli, Bison, Chun are all charge to me.

Nah bruh.  It's just FANG.  The rest have mixed movesets.    Chun was only a full charge character in SSF2/T but had mixed move inputs in the games that followed.

Also Chun's super being two qcfs

[Bebpo]

Fang isn't the only fully charge character. Chun Li is as well. Her legs don't count because her legs have never been charge.

IMO, if you have one chage, you're a charge character.

So Fang, Necalli, Bison, Chun are all charge to me.

wtf

I haven't played those characters, so didn't realize that.  But like.......what?  Why change Vega/Nash away from charge in that case?  I thought the idea, which I respected, was Capcom was removing charge characters in an attempt to cut down heavily on turtling in SFV since charge characters that typically hang in a DB position are more prone to turtling.  But if they're leaving in all these charge characters, then wtf was the point in just randomly changing some charge characters to fireball characters?  It's just weird...

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Fang isn't the only fully charge character. Chun Li is as well. Her legs don't count because her legs have never been charge.

IMO, if you have one chage, you're a charge character.

So Fang, Necalli, Bison, Chun are all charge to me.

wtf

I haven't played those characters, so didn't realize that.  But like.......what?  Why change Vega/Nash away from charge in that case?  I thought the idea, which I respected, was Capcom was removing charge characters in an attempt to cut down heavily on turtling in SFV since charge characters that typically hang in a DB position are more prone to turtling.  But if they're leaving in all these charge characters, then wtf was the point in just randomly changing some charge characters to fireball characters?  It's just weird...

What point is there to having Nash charge if the game is going to have Guile? Nash not being charge is done deliberately to separate him from Guile in terms of input and play style.

Vega isn't charge now because they wanted him to go back to his speed from II apparently. I'd say it worked. In IV he was more defensive than being a Spanish ninja.

Getting rid of charge characters isn't respectable at all, and makes play styles more homogeneous and limiting. I prefer charge. If you're having trouble with a turtle throw them or over head them or bait them. Much better than taking out an entire control scheme. Playing charge has nothing to do with being a turtle.

[Mods Help]

Fang isn't the only fully charge character. Chun Li is as well. Her legs don't count because her legs have never been charge.

IMO, if you have one chage, you're a charge character.

So Fang, Necalli, Bison, Chun are all charge to me.

Nah bruh.  It's just FANG.  The rest have mixed movesets.    Chun was only a full charge character in SSF2/T but had mixed move inputs in the games that followed.

Also Chun's super being two qcfs

Guess we have a different definition. imo, chun is a charge character despite having a few quarter moves.

[Mods Help]

"pressing the block button, not a good look"

[thisismyusername]

Chun was only a full charge character in SSF2/T but had mixed move inputs in the games that followed.

Did she? I could swear her Kikoshin (or whatever the Fireball is called) is a charge move like her spinning bird kick and anti-air spinning bird kick. Only in Marvel vs Capcom 2 is she not a charge character because all her moves are Z or QCF's.

(And Marvel 3 if I'm remembering right)

[Am_I_Anonymous]

Played this yesterday at Comic Con. Based on my limited sample I would say it feels a lot "looser" than previous editions. I don't know a better way to describe it than that.

[thisismyusername]

Played this yesterday at Comic Con. Based on my limited sample I would say it feels a lot "looser" than previous editions. I don't know a better way to describe it than that.

It is. You're probably thinking it's "loose" because they dropped 1-frame links to 3-frames. To where people have an easier time chaining normals together to make a "combo." V-trigger/V-reversals and the like are also slightly easier than FADC and P-linking and all the baggage of SF4 (so far, we'll see how that "tech" goes).

But yeah, Ono and company "dumbed down" the game for the better in regards to casuals. But then they forgot the offline modes for said casuals.

[Am_I_Anonymous]

Played this yesterday at Comic Con. Based on my limited sample I would say it feels a lot "looser" than previous editions. I don't know a better way to describe it than that.

It is. You're probably thinking it's "loose" because they dropped 1-frame links to 3-frames. To where people have an easier time chaining normals together to make a "combo." V-trigger/V-reversals and the like are also slightly easier than FADC and P-linking and all the baggage of SF4 (so far, we'll see how that "tech" goes).

But yeah, Ono and company "dumbed down" the game for the better in regards to casuals. But then they forgot the offline modes for said casuals.

Yeah that is part of it. Also I accidentally kept dragon punching with Ken during the normal game when not trying to do so.

[Mods Help]

Anyone who thinks easier to do combos casual-izes the game exposes themselves. Never mind that SF prior to IV always had easy to do, short combos.

[thisismyusername]

Anyone who thinks easier to do combos casual-izes the game exposes themselves. Never mind that SF prior to IV always had easy to do, short combos.

Eh, you're misunderstanding. I think dropping the 1-frames to 3 was a good thing. Especially for casual players. But I'm talking in regards to "pro-players" that are like "OMG THEY DUMBED THE GAME DOWN TOO MUCH!"

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I'm agreeing with you. I'm not misunderstanding anything. I'm commenting on said players saying that easier to do combos means some scrub is going to body Daigo, as if combos is the sole reason how you win and get good at fighting games. It's illogical and exposes them. 1 frame links isn't bad for just casuals either. No one liked that shit.

[nachobro]

Chun was only a full charge character in SSF2/T but had mixed move inputs in the games that followed.

Did she? I could swear her Kikoshin (or whatever the Fireball is called) is a charge move like her spinning bird kick and anti-air spinning bird kick. Only in Marvel vs Capcom 2 is she not a charge character because all her moves are Z or QCF's.

(And Marvel 3 if I'm remembering right)

iirc in 3S her fireball is HCF and in 4 it's a charge

i aint mad at a return to short combos cause it means i can get Ws with just AAs and pokes without having the learn the game (so far at least, that won't last)

[mormapope]

SFV was definitely pitched as a more casual fighting game compared to SFIV. In reality you can only make some mechanics easier while the game itself will still weed out people that have no idea what they're doing.

Dropping 1-3 frame links seems like a sorta scatterbrained decision in hindsight. Focus attacks, invincible back damages, and general balance issues were a lot more negative factors than those links. Linking a light jab or short or 2xjab/2xshort into a medium attack into special meant a ton of damage scaling.

SFV could've kept a similar linking system along with a simpler combo system in general. It would come down to do you want to use the sorta pre established target combos for guaranteed big damage, or do you want to play safer and try to link some light attacks?

[Mods Help]

It's charge in alpha's.

[Mods Help]

SFV was definitely pitched as a more casual fighting game compared to SFIV. In reality you can only make some mechanics easier while the game itself will still weed out people that have no idea what they're doing.

Dropping 1-3 frame links seems like a sorta scatterbrained decision in hindsight. Focus attacks, invincible back damages, and general balance issues were a lot more negative factors than those links. Linking a light jab or short or 2xjab/2xshort into a medium attack into special meant a ton of damage scaling.

SFV could've kept a similar linking system along with a simpler combo system in general. It would come down to do you want to use the sorta pre established target combos for guaranteed big damage, or do you want to play safer and try to link some light attacks?

People act like 3 frame links are still easy to do as a beginner.

Also, capcom thinking combos is what made SFIV hard to get into as a beginner shows everything wrong with the company and the way fighting games are inpterpeted as being. They thought they'd make the game more casual friendly by removing 1 frame links when things like focus and ultras and invincibility backdash are what made SFIV so casual friendly. You had no reason to use fundamentals ot footsies it you didn't want to because you could hide behind things focus attacks and comeback ultras.

But SFV doesn't work like that. In this game, fundamentals and footsies are fucking everything. There are no comeback ultras. There's no focus so you need to learn how to use your character to learn how to get in rather than rely on a universal mechanic. Add in crush counters and you have a game where casuals are going to get demolished, where defense is everything.

The irony of trying to make SFV more casual friendly is that it actually probably put SFV in reverse. If you wakeup shoryu you gonna get blown up. The game where every action matters.

[mormapope]

Focus attacks were not a casual mechanic at all. If you do a heavy jump in and get blown up by a fully charged focus attack, stop doing as many jump ins. I've never seen someone that didn't know how to play SF win because of focus attacks. 

Focus attacks in general should be used to move your position without losing life at the cost of silver life, or for FADCing for a combo or to gain ground with spacing. Both of these require smarts and execution.

The problem with focus attacks is how inconsistent each character's focus attack was for range and start up. Along with feeling really janky for extending combos or cancelling to do something else.

Invincibility backdash is also not a casual thing. The majority of online players hop around like idiots, backdashing and forward dashing is something a person has to learn. No casual player will specifically look up backdashing in a Street Fighter game.

Ultras were the most casual thing about Street Fighter 4. Guaranteed "super" attack where it does more damage when you take more damage. If anything, the most casual aspects of SF are ultras and invincibility with a ton of special moves.

The game where every action matters.

This can be applied to almost any competitive game ever.

You had no reason to use fundamentals ot footsies it you didn't want to because you could hide behind things focus attacks and comeback ultras.

 

If someone falls for fully charged focus attacks and wake up ultras, that's on the person running into those situations though.

[Mods Help]

Focus isn't inherently casual friendly. But it obscures the need for actual footsies fans actually learning the game for beginner players which is going to make it harder for that player to progress because they rely on gimmicks and universal mechanics rather than the game. Playing online, people abuse focus to ridiculous degree. Why bother learning how to get in when I can just rely on focus? It makes players complacent and safe. It's honestly a shit mechanic in my opinion.

You can say that about any competitive game, but it's definitely true when comparing IV to V.

And no one said that level three focus attacks and wakeup ultras necessarily work. That doesn't change SFIV's casual appeal compared to V.

Ultra doesn't even share meter. Why bother learning how to learn proper meter management when I've got ultra? That's all that counts, let's burn this meter. In SFV, there's two meters but only one tied to super, forcing players to actually use proper meter management and risk reward.

SFV on wakeup, most of your options are limited and you better make that option count. Compared to SFIV Rose and Chum where you can duck out of trouble if need be.

SFIV is casual friendly because it has a billion ways to make players feel safe and a billion ways to evade actual combat and making a combat choice. That doesn't mean there's no counter to these things, but SFIV is casual friendly as fuck.

There's a big reason it took off.

SFV has none of this. In SFV there's no place to hide. If you want to get through Fb's you better commit. On wakeup your actions are horribly limited and you better make that right choice even with the absence of vortex characters. In SFIV, a whiffed dp can be punished,  but in V, it can mean a death sentence. If you don't use footsies in V, you're not getting very far. It doesn't even have  crouch teching. So intermediates like me are gonna have a hard time too.

I think the more simple nature of V does the opposite of what Capcom wanted it to do.

I think you're conflating "casual friendly" for "casual game." There's nothing casual about SFIV as an actual game. Its sub systems and OS shit are ridiculous. But SFIV's amount of sub systems and options make players feel safer and allow them to rely upon them. You cannot overly rely on any of this in SFV yet. It's either do or die right now and the game is set up to force players to learn the game rather than assume systems as being the game. Which could be interpreted as being casual friendly, but IMO, isn't because there's no safety net.

and that makes the debate on whether or not a safety net makes a game more casual or more deep which at that point is pure subjectivity.

[mormapope]

The way you're describing SFIV sounds completely alien. People abuse focus attacks online? How? Abusing a game mechanic usually means using a mechanic to gain a huge advantage. Two light jabs, throws, backdashing, there's tons of ways to beat or get out of a focus attack range. Someone absorbing attacks with focus and moving forward is a skill.

"Why bother learning meter management when I've got ultra?"

Ultras are usually hard to land raw and they're incredibly unsafe when blocked or dodged. Why would ultras negate whats in your meter, which gets transferred round to round in the first place? At most, ultras will do around 400 to 450 damage, and to get that much damage, you need to be near death. Meter mangement doesn't matter that much in SFIV? 

You can also punish people that abuse back dashes, depending on the character you're using. Rose may have a great back dash, but there's options to punish players that abuse it.

"Casual friendly" sounds like code for "I didn't like this shit". Which is fine, SFIV has dumb shit and isn't perfect in any way, shape, or form. SFIV was popular because it was the first Street Fighter game in almost a decade, the mechanics themselves almost had nothing to do with its popularity.

[Mods Help]

You seem to have completely not read anything I said.

Focus is definitely abused online. That doesn't mean I don't punish it. It's still abused.

My main in IV has high backdash invincibility. I love it. But it's a way to avoid conflict and another way to get away. IV has a billion ways to get away rather than push forward, which is something newer players latch on to. Fact. Never did I say that there's no way to stop someone from abusing backdash on wakeup either. Quite the opposite. USFIV is pretty fucking balanced.

Nowhere did I say meter management doesn't matter in SFIV. I'm talking about a casual or a beginner or a scrub who's playing the game. Hence "casual friendly". A beginner or casual is going to ignore super guage because fuck it, I've got Ultra. Compared to V, where your only super is tied to your ex meter. This forces them to balance whether or not they want to risk using ex at the expense of super. Compared to IV, where a lot of newer players use ex attacks like it's a free resource. Ultra stops them from thinking about stuff like that. At least first.

I also said that casual friendly doesn't mean "casual game".

Again, you have not read a thing I said. I'm not talking about intermediate or high level players at all.

When I say casual friendly, I'm pretty obviously, talking about casual players or people new to fighting games. When I say casual friendly, I mean systems put in place that allow people to avoid conflict and get out of hairy situations. Ultras, focus, back dash. This doesn't mean it's a casual game. SFIV has endless amounts of depth. But someone starting out - again, casual friendly - the game offers enough tools to win matches more readily.

Contrast with SFV. It has less tools and systems to allow newer players to win without knowing what they're doing.

Combined with the fact that SFV has no arcade mode - which we established is a casual friendly feature - and other things. It's pretty clear that, despite whatever Capcom's wishes, they've made a game that is far, far less casual friendly than its predecessor.

You really need to work on your reading comprehension.

[bork]

It's charge in alpha's.

If we're still on Chun here, it's both.  Her FB is a charge in Alpha.  It's a HCF motion in Alpha 2, BUT if you pick the SF2 outfit, it's a charge.  It varies by ISM in Alpha 3.  Then you have her 'axe kick' being a HCB in all Alphas.  The character has a mixed moveset.

[Mods Help]

I forgot about different grooves changing her moveset.

And yeah, in A2 kikoken is a half circle move.

She's not mixed moveset in IV, though. Only hazenshuu is really directional.

[mormapope]

Mods, your entire argument is convoluted as hell. Your other posts sound like critical critiques of SF4 rather than providing a perspective of a player. And the issue with providing perspective for a imaginary player is we all learn and learn how to play these games differently. When I was a SF4 scrub, I never thought focus attacks and Ultras were the best things ever.

"if I could just get focus attacks and ultras down, I would be the best player out there".

Never thought that.

Players using mechanics incorrectly isn't a "casual friendly" mechanic or feature. Mechanics or traits that seem broken or unbalanced are not casual friendly mechanics.

"SF4 isn't casual, but its casual friendly"

is like saying

"This steak isn't dry, but its making me really thirsty."

And then someone asks

"Is the steak really salty?"

And the response is

"No, its a really great steak with depth and flavor. But its making me thirsty."

[Mods Help]

I'm noting player behavior across three different platforms: Steam, PS3, and PS4. This was especially true during the Super Street Fighter IV days when the player base was more leveled and less top sided. Beginners and scrubs definitely do level 3 focus attacks full screen. They think focus attack is the game.

My argument isn't really convoluted. I just don't think you're understanding what I'm saying. Perhaps it's my language and the way I'm saying it, but it's what I and many other players have observed about SFIV and SFV.

I think you're attributing your own experience as end all. When I wanted to learn SFIV, I didn't focus too much on combos and Ultras and things either, because I wanted to get the basics and fundamentals down first. But just because I didn't seek that, doesn't mean others didn't. I fully remember how scrubs - this includes me - and beginning players, played during the Super and SFIV days.

[thisismyusername]

Ultras are usually hard to land raw and they're incredibly unsafe when blocked or dodged. Why would ultras negate whats in your meter, which gets transferred round to round in the first place? At most, ultras will do around 400 to 450 damage, and to get that much damage, you need to be near death. Meter mangement doesn't matter that much in SFIV? 

Eh, I agree with them on that. How many times did you see pros use the Critical Art/"Super" over the Ultra in a combo? The EX/CA meter was mostly used to burn for FADC->Ultra or EX moves.

[Mods Help]

On top of that are you telling me newer players don't do full screen ex fireballs?



You rarely see that in SFV.

I wonder why.



Newer players now actually view ex as a resource because if they use too many ex moves they can't CA, which limits their ability to win. SFV pushes players head first and forces them to gauge risk reward in using ex during dire times or saving it for a CA because in SFV, that's your only fucking option. There is no Ultra.

SFIV, newer players burn meter because they have no inkling of its use because supers aren't as prominent or as good as an ultra.

[Mods Help]

I'm not sure why you're interpreting casual friendly as an insult.

Some of the most popular games are casual friendly.

Street Fighter II for example, is casual friendly. That doesn't stop Super Turbo from being hardcore as fuck. You can be casual friendly and still appealing to the core. IV got that bit nicely. IV being casual friendly doesn't stop Elena Ultra II's or Akuma vortexes from existing.

[mormapope]

Casual friendly to me means price, how much it costs to get invested (arcade stick, pad, controller, mouse, keyboard), how many social features there are, how many features in general. Game mechanics to me don't attribute if something is casual friendly or not. Game mechanics do attribute to something being casual in general though.

Getting someone to get a game they would never consider in the first place due to enticing them is making something casual friendly, to me.

[mormapope]

Also, don't forget fighting games thrived as arcade cabinets. Where the price of entry was a quarter or two, no console needed, no controller. People that liked the core gameplay enough got home versions (which were ass due to the lack of power). 

[thisismyusername]

(which were ass due to the lack of power).

Not on Saturn was RAM expansions.

X-men vs Street Fighter.

[Beezy]

I'm tired of skimming through these debates. When the hell are you guys actually online playing this? Fight me.

[Mods Help]

Until I adjust to stick I'm doing casual matches only

[thisismyusername]

I'm tired of skimming through these debates. When the hell are you guys actually online playing this? Fight me.

You on PS4, breh? Fighter ID is Wrath2X

Shouldn't matter. You two should be able to find each other through CFN?