The Bore does what NeoGAF doesn't.

[mormapope]

American white culture does exist, white culture as a whole doesn't.

[Mods Help]

In any case, mere prejudices isn't the topic here.

[VomKriege]

Blackface: outdated game mechanic ?

[mormapope]

I'd say prejudice is equally as important. Has there ever been a racist that didn't build their foundation of racism out of prejudice? Has there been systematic racism that didn't exploit someone's prejudice to make the said system stronger?

The prejudices that are the most shared amongst a specific society is what racism is built out of.

[Kara]

Sounds nuts.

There's a part where you overhear conversations in das Reich (or maybe it was the Weimar period) and a man and woman are at a café and one of them is all, "Don't be ridiculous, they'll never actually do any of the things they say they're going to do to us," and you're just like . It's v. Brechtian.

[Kara]

Vividly remember your childhood trips to the Holocaust museum brehs.

[Rufus]

It's not like it'd be traumatic or anything.

[I'm a Puppy!]

whoa whoa guys, I know this is the GAF thread but we don't need to bring the GAF here.

[I'm a Puppy!]

[Mods Help]

As a guy who understood why Kanye West costume dude was being offensive can't say I agree with MH about all white people being racist. You can't get mad at being stereotyped when you go ahead and stereotype others.

Some Cacs are racist, some aren't. Same as any other group of people you encounter, there will always be good and bad.

I don't really get mad at being stereotyped. There's nothing you can do to change a racists minds. You could have perfect hair and they'll still view your hair as nappy. You could have the silkiest skin and they'll still view your skin as looking like mud.

However, it's quite funny how white people lose their shit when you accuse them of being racist, as if being accused is the worst thing in the world. They'd rather not be called racist than work on a racist system. It goes quite a long way to proving my hypothesis.

I think white people are born into a system and culture that tells embeds them with racist ideals. Can it be unlearned? I think so. But I don't think most white people are willing to do that. Until they admit that there exists an oppressive system that values whiteness, we got nothing to talk about. It's impossible to unlearn behavior or culture if you are unwilling to admit there's nothing wrong in the first place, and many white people do this. We even have the data: http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonkblog/wp/2014/10/08/white-people-think-racial-discrimination-in-america-is-basically-over/

We get that people who are raised in abusive households are more likely to abuse someone later in life. We can understand that people born in a certain psychological environments end up embedding those experiences into their lives. But when we talk about racism: lynchings, system oppression, not being able to take advantage of the GI Bill, housing discrimination, COINTELPRO, we can go on - suddenly the idea that people aren't impacted by their environment goes out the window. So surely it's reasonable, that racism is passed down much like how it is in abusive households. By that metric, in a society that clearly puts white people as "normal", then most of them are going to have racist views all passed down. How is that controversial? I'm sure there are many white people who have unlearned this indoctrination, I know quite a few.

So yeah. All white people.

[I'm a Puppy!]

Yeah. I especially hate it when all white people make generalizations about all black people. That shit is unacceptable!

[Momo]

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=183197507&postcount=234

 

Magus

[Momo]

No such thing as [race] culture exists.
Cultures arent based on race alone, overall white people in Sweden are different than white people in Brazil. Your culture is foreign to black Africans etc. etc. 

[Mods Help]

No such thing as [race] culture exists.
Cultures arent based on race alone, overall white people in Sweden are different than white people in Brazil. Your culture is foreign to black Africans etc. etc. 

Eh. Now that's a semantic argument rather than toppling the bulk of the content.

In actuality, since you brought up world examples, that makes the case even easier to make:

- The rise of anti-immigrant violence and anti-immigrant views currently in Europe.
- Apartheid in South Africa.
- Since you brought up Brazil, they had immigrants - mostly European, some Japanese - come over purely to whiten the population. Bringing up white brazilians while ignoring blanqueamiento is pretty lol.
- Sweden racial attacks on the rise
- The history of colonization in general

Even the world standard of beauty is whiteness. Yet you say white culture doesn't exist. The culture may not exist officially, but the idea that European beauty standards and whiteness in general are preferred clearly shows a bias towards whiteness. White supremacy knows no national borders. Fact.

[Kara]

Suprémacistes sans Frontières

[recursivelyenumerable]

holy shit that holocaust museum sounds off the hook

[toku]

lol

[Momo]

You lost me when you brought in unrelated shit to what i was saying mods help, I'm not going to argue about racism online, I have dealt with it enough in real life to not want it in my internet safe space.

[seagrams hotsauce]

You have been banned for the following reason:
Caping for blackface on the wrong forum. This is your 24th ban. Perm warning.

Date the ban will be lifted: 11-26-2015, 08:00 PM

 

smh

Not a single decent argument against my points in that thread.

Wooooow. Perm warning for that?

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=183040931&postcount=12009

these dudes are so mad 

And posting it in the Black Community Hugspace. Why am I not surprised?

you dont see the irony in this though?

What irony? Charlie is right in that blacks (especially on GAF) need to let it go on the "racist" tirades the black community does over every "black-face" event. I seriously doubt the couples intent was to offend people with their halloween shenanigans. If anything, the girlfriend's facebook comment is the major offense.

If you mean the irony of posting my snipe at the black community thread here: 1) I'm currently banned on GAF (and close to leaving anyway) and 2) going there to point out their bullshit will not have them learn it at all. They'll just put their fingers in their ears and "LALALALALA WHITE TEARS" it away while thinking they're doing good. When the fact is: They aren't. If anything, they're pushing people they should be educating away because their attitude toward actual debate/conversations is poor.

Prototypical white gay boy up here.

Probably has a Grindr profile that says: no azns, no blacks, no latinos, no terrroists, no fatties

yikes

[seagrams hotsauce]

White people are all racist, so it's a pretty good idea to assume it has racist intentions unless proven otherwise.

wait what

All white people are racist.

White people have an entire system and culture in place that sub plants that racial superiority. It's an intrisitic part of their culture. Every white person is born into a culture that belittles non-whites. Many white people would rather be offended at the notion of being accused of being racist more than they would actually think about how they contribute to white supremacy culture. That in itself present one of the core problems, because the entire thing is system and deep.

You can argue that some people weren't raised like that. True enough. But to pretend that one isn't ever influenced by outside of their home is a premature idea. Even if you're raised well, you still have to turn on the tv, go to movies, read magazines, books, go to school, and participate in media and systems that clearly value white people and white lives over everyone else. This is how you get white "progressives" who end up thinking they're "open-minded" but actually espouse very racially harmful views.

This system is so harmful that it embeds itself into minorities.

Furthermore, it's not the job of the racial minority to help white people overcome their racism. There's nothing an Asian or Latino or Black person could do to deter a white person's racism. That's up to the white person to attempt to better themselves. Until that white person actively tries to look at how they are participating in a racist society and culture that values some lives over others, and takes steps into changing or altering that mode of thought, that white person is a racist. Those white people who try to better themselves, they're cool. But there's zero reason to innately trust a white person unless they show otherwise. Racism is more than calling someone a niggger or a gook. More than that, it's about devaluing entire peoples humanity. When it's shown that two "experts" deem the murder of a 11 year old boy by police is justified.  That's white society de-humanizing black lives. On the news media right now is a story of a cop that body slams a teenage girl, and people - mostly white people, with a sprinkling of racial minority defenders - justify it because saying she should complied. That's white culture telling you point blank who's valued in society. The Charleston shooter shot and killed 9 black people while they were praying while offering the goodness of their own church hospitality. White people refuse to label the crime terrorism, the kid was taken into custody like an important person and actively protected, all while black churches burn across the nation and nothing is said. On the contrary, white people do anything and everything to argue that he's an outlier and that he was "mentally ill".

Or you can apply Occam's Razor and go with real talk: white people and their culture are historically, and very much presently, racist. This isn't a moral judgement at all. I'm not saying white people are inherently evil or anything. But racism, a learned subset of systems and biases passed down from generation to generation? Yeah. I'm sure most white people aren't even aware they do this shit, or are aware they're racist, and they don't think they're bad people. But they sure as fuck are racist.

what about us white folk that are more bemused than offended by being called racist

[Boogie]

Himuro gonna Himuro.

[nudemacusers]

I read about white guilt once.

[zomgee]

Blackface: outdated game mechanic ?

#striveclub

[id0it]

stop pretending you know peoples lives

[Am_I_Anonymous]

stop pretending you know peoples lives

Shut up, idiot

[VomKriege]

GAF, how do I life ? ep. MDCCC

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1130780

If you find it gross, it is obviously a deal breaker. No need to get a second, third or 1000th opinion from the web.

[brob]

ITT a bunch of baby liberals catch feelings because #notallwhitepeople   

[Your Stalker]

[Cerveza mas fina]

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=183197507&postcount=234

 

Magus

Waaait so.that dude with the pedo avatar id actully magoose?

[Rufus]

Not 'our' Magus, no.

[studyguy]

GAF, how do I life ? ep. MDCCC

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1130780

If you find it gross, it is obviously a deal breaker. No need to get a second, third or 1000th opinion from the web.

GAF help I can't compete with a dog, dude's just to swole and I'm afraid he's picking up on my girl. pls halp

[D3RANG3D]

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=183228014&postcount=13

[VomKriege]

GAF, how do I life ? ep. MDCCC

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1130780

If you find it gross, it is obviously a deal breaker. No need to get a second, third or 1000th opinion from the web.

GAF help I can't compete with a dog, dude's just to swole and I'm afraid he's picking up on my girl. pls halp

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=183235514&postcount=124

[Kara]

After sleeping on it I think I'm going to go to the same Holocaust museum for the third time. Maybe even do a thread.

But only if I can take the train there (or reasonably close, it is L.A.).

Too soon?

[studyguy]

Read back that stripper story.

 
 
 
 
 
 
 

Emotional rollercoaster right there.

[parallax]

Thats the most apt description.

[Joe Molotov]

It was a nonstop thrill ride.

[nachobro]

After sleeping on it I think I'm going to go to the same Holocaust museum for the third time. Maybe even do a thread.

But only if I can take the train there (or reasonably close, it is L.A.).

Too soon?

nah, it happened 70 years ago

[Mods Help]

ITT a bunch of baby liberals catch feelings because #notallwhitepeople   

Nailed it, Brob.

http://www.alternet.org/news-amp-politics/yes-all-white-people-are-racists-now-lets-do-something-about-it

#YesAllWhitePeople

[studyguy]

Went to the holocaust museum in middle school. Don't remember a lick of it.

Went again at my girl's behest. I still don't remember much about it and it was like 5 years ago? On this time though there was a old dude telling stories about his family that lived through it. That I remember. The whole tunnel of hate and all the other bits just kinda fade out of memory but this old dude's story felt much more impactful just sitting there listening to him in a small crowd of people.

[Kara]

Went to the holocaust museum in middle school. Don't remember a lick of it.

Went again at my girl's behest. I still don't remember much about it and it was like 5 years ago? On this time though there was a old dude telling stories about his family that lived through it. That I remember. The whole tunnel of hate and all the other bits just kinda fade out of memory but this old dude's story felt much more impactful just sitting there listening to him in a small crowd of people.

Yeah, the human touch can clash with the exhibition. One time I had a guide who was a survivor and I remember the dissonance between listening to them and then moving on to the next segment.

[Mods Help]

White people are all racist, so it's a pretty good idea to assume it has racist intentions unless proven otherwise.

Himuro, you're a racist asshole.  Fuck right off already.

Tell me more.

*spins web*

[CatsCatsCats]

I think the whole idea that racists need to be labelled, outed and shamed entirely counter productive. Like, the culture is if you have inherent racial prejudices, you're a no good relic of the past, irredeemable. So we try to act like oh not me, not all! I am good and just! I'm not one of those monsters! I couldn't have possibly been prejudice in my actions! Whatever, you're a human, if you say you don't have any prejudices you're not talkin truth. Own up to your prejudices, be conscious of them and don't let them drive your actions.


White power.

[Mods Help]

Agreed. Also, tell me why white people, at large, deserve the benefit of the doubt by default?

The idea that racism is only calling someone a name, or whatever, is entirely counterproductive, because it shield people who have far more problematic, hidden, more systemic views to go unquestioned.

[Mods Help]

Gosh, you make it sound like I'm the David Bowie of forum posters.

*blushes*

But nah. I've held this view for a year running. I just never outright said it. More and more PoCs are having this viewpoint post-Ferguson, post-Garner. It's basic survival.

[Broseidon]

White people are all racist, so it's a pretty good idea to assume it has racist intentions unless proven otherwise.

Himuro, you're a racist asshole.  Fuck right off already.

Tell me more.

*spins web*

So what, is this just your latest joke character persona in a long line of them?

This bullshit just your chosen method of trolling these days?

Probably.

I mean it must take some real dedication to stick to the same "Check out my distinguished mentally-challenged beliefs" gimmick for years without breaking character like you have

[CatsCatsCats]

Agreed. Also, tell me why white people, at large, deserve the benefit of the doubt by default?

The idea that racism is only calling someone a name, or whatever, is entirely counterproductive, because it shield people who have far more problematic, hidden, more systemic views to go unquestioned.

I don't think anyone deserves benefit of doubt. Lay that shit bare, acknowledge it, and don't let it run actions/policy/etc. No one should be scott free because "oh no not me, I'm not racist, don't examine the influence my prejudices may have on my actions, cuz I'm good"

[Mods Help]

Agreed. Also, tell me why white people, at large, deserve the benefit of the doubt by default?

The idea that racism is only calling someone a name, or whatever, is entirely counterproductive, because it shield people who have far more problematic, hidden, more systemic views to go unquestioned.

I don't think anyone deserves benefit of doubt. Lay that shit bare, acknowledge it, and don't let it run actions/policy/etc. No one should be scott free because "oh no not me, I'm not racist, don't examine the influence my prejudices may have on my actions, cuz I'm good"

My thing is, if you are my friend, and you're not essential - my boss, co-worker - and you are unwilling to check your own views on race, like I do mine, I don't think we can fuck with each other. I don't see how that's an extreme view or somehow makes me a racist. Until you prove otherwise, there's zero reason to give you the benefit of the doubt. How is that an unreasonable viewpoint?

But the whole thing about "it's everyone!"? When nah, it overwhelmingly affects whites? Nah.

[Shadow Mod]

I think it's fairly safe to say that most Americans in general are racist, even minorities, due to the internalizing of messages that have long since held white people >*.  It's the same reason you'll see minority cops treating black people like shit even if they're black themselves. We (as in all Americans) are taught to think black people are up to no good nefarious types. They get painted with a brush of their worst people (which are a minority) while white people get to skate by untarnished by what a majority of our kind actually did, which is treat black people like shit for generations (and still).

 

[Mods Help]

Indeed. That's a much better way of putting it and a perfect summary of what I said last page. Even minorities have these systemic-wide beliefs. I give black people the benefit of the doubt, even if they hold those views, because as a black person, it's my job to help and support other black people. It's white peoples job to end the idea that they are the best and systemic racism. When white people want racism to end, it'll end.

Until then...

[Am_I_Anonymous]

Can we please move along?

Also "mods help" isn't speaking for all or even most blacks. Easy to talk militant and survival. Ignore her.

[Mods Help]

Also "mods help" isn't speaking for all or even most blacks. Easy to talk militant and survival. Ignore her.

If you haven't noticed the change in the conversation and attitudes in the past year, I don't know what to say.

[studyguy]

#notallwhitesallthetime

[Shadow Mod]

Far as "survival" goes I've witnessed first hand that "you fit the profile" crap from cops, luckily my fam was white so we could tell the cops to fuck off my bf had been at the house with us.

[Mods Help]

I also love the idea that we should automatically forgive people. When the families of the Charleston victims said they 'forgave" the shooter, I shook my head. Don't forgive shit.

Shadow Mod, were they looking for someone that "fit his profile"? They'd probably think someone half his height "fit his profile".

[Shadow Mod]

Well there had been robberies in the neighborhood and there was a black guy outside at night so...

[stufte]

I also love the idea that we should automatically forgive people. When the families of the Charleston victims said they 'forgave" the shooter, I shook my head. Don't forgive shit.

Shadow Mod, were they looking for someone that "fit his profile"? They'd probably think someone half his height "fit his profile".

Forgiveness isn't about condoning or accepting the actions taken against you. It's being a bigger person than that of the person who wronged you. It's taking control of the outcome and saying "You wronged me, but I'm stronger than you."

People who do evil shit *want* that reaction out of you. They want you to be angry and vindictive. By saying "nah" you take that power away from them.

[Shadow Mod]

Eh that forgiveness stuff...

I just "nah'd" someone but I'm not about to forgive. Forgiveness and closure are some concepts that good for others if they can make that work but they don't really register with me.

[mormapope]

The United States prison system is built around flushing forgiveness and mercy down the toilet for tons of normal people. Emotion or stubbornness alone isn't a good reason why someone should get the fate they get.

I know you weren't talking about prison in general, but Americans typically have really harsh views with consequences and rehabilitation. We love punishing the fuck out of people, to satisfy the revenge bone people have.

[stufte]

Eh that forgiveness stuff...

I just "nah'd" someone but I'm not about to forgive. Forgiveness and closure are some concepts that good for others if they can make that work but they don't really register with me.

Hey, I know what you mean. I personally don't have it in me to forgive someone for something like killing someone I love. I'm just not that strong a person. But I admire people who have control over their emotions enough to forgive, they should be the model to strive for.