Welcome to America: Ban all the Muslims

[Brehvolution]

)Obama is right, we got this. And I'm a conservative saying that.

Stop saying this. It's like the 'I'm gay and that's the reason I say this shit' dude. We need to come together and put this partisan shit in the dumpster.

[Madrun Badrun]

You're gay. 

spoiler (click to show/hide)

and I'm gay and that's the reason I say this shit

[close]

[Mandark]

I don't think anyone's brought it up in the thread, but before Trump spouted off, Rand Paul had already called for basically the same thing, only targeting immigrants from the Middle East rather than Muslims.

Presumably "Middle East" is excluding Israel in this case, so...

[Madrun Badrun]

Israel is in the middel east? 

[Human Snorenado]

I don't think anyone's brought it up in the thread, but before Trump spouted off, Rand Paul had already called for basically the same thing, only targeting immigrants from the Middle East rather than Muslims.

Presumably "Middle East" is excluding Israel in this case, so...

I don't know about that, this is Ron Paul's son so...

[benjipwns]

Sorry for hijacking your thread Stoney Mason, it's just interesting seeing this stuff now with the benefit of hindsight and how our narratives evolve.

I'll bail you out by hijacking it worse:

You know, it's kinda neat to see history repeating itself. Like I wonder if this "hijacked" feeling is what Germans felt when Hitler was running for power.

Here's the problem though, Hitler sent Germans all over the place to invite new immigrants into Germany and its sphere.

I prefer to think of past upstanding Americans:

As the former President of MIT has said:

He argued that the “indiscriminate hospitality” to more whose homes would be “filled by others as miserable as themselves” would not make up for any “permanent injury done to our republic,” and that with the success of the American “experiment” more would be done for the [home nations] than “allowing its city slums and its vast stagnant reservoirs of degraded peasantry to be drained off upon our soil.”

And Representative Johnson warns:

in a few years down the road without further restriction the currently despairing immigrants “will be pounding heavily at the very pillars of our government, where those who have come ahead of them a few years back with their socialism, their communism, their [revolutions], have merely gnawing like rats at our foundations.”

Representative Box of Texas has outlined our future:

if America destroyed the “work of our fathers” and became “another Europe or Asia” leaving a world that would “grow visibly darker, even to the people of foreign lands, and all that is worth living for will have been lost to us, whether we came recently or our fathers came long ago.”

Senator Heflin pointed out that in past wars we went:

“across the seas to defeat a foreign foe and prevent a foreign army from invading America” the current immigration laws were allowing “the enemy through loopholes … to come right into the American household.” Heflin asserted that if American troops had “fought to keep the enemy out, surely we can vote for a law that will keep out the dangerous and deadly enemies of the country

Republican Congressman Cable of Ohio:

called for the two parties to “unite in forming an ‘American bloc’ and that neither yield to the foreign influence,” declaring that “partisan politics have no place in this patriotic question.”

He also noted that in certain cities, illegal immigrants were being favored by local policy:

eighty percent of the city’s population was “foreign-stock” and that the vote displayed “the effect of the foreign born in the United States in attempting to dictate to Congress what laws should [be made].”

Representative Box was on point when he argued this isn't discrimination, instead that:

“America has the gift of citizenship, home and opportunity to bestow as she chooses upon the worthy alien people who she many select, no Government and no group … has the right to question the exercise of America’s discretion in making such a choice.”

He also pointed out of that many of these illegal immigrant groups are basically making the equivalent of a threat that:

“we already have admitted among us large, dangerous elements, and that we must admit more of them to keep them in a good and orderly humor.”

While Republican Bill Vaile has knocked down all the hooey about how important immigrants are to America:

“it seems rather illogical … to claim that those who have been for the shortest time in the process of assimilation and in the work of the Republic should have even greater or even equal consideration because of this very newness.” And that it was “a fact, not merely an argument, that this country was created, kept united and developed … almost entirely by people who came here from the countries of Northern and Western Europe.”

But it's Democrat Stengle of New York who might best sum up the importance of borders, language, culture:

“many of the inhabitants of these cities appear to be tied up to foreign countries by their sympathies, customs, interests, and aspirations, and apparently but little interested in the future welfare of their adopted country.” 

From the Congressional (and selected media) debates over:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Immigration_Act_of_1924

it severely restricted the immigration of Africans and outright banned the immigration of Arabs and Asians

Earlier act we could just dust off and get things about right with a few additions:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Immigration_Act_of_1917
(dat map)

[Samson Manhug]

Afghanistan, Algeria, Bahrain, Bangladesh, Egypt, Eritrea, Indonesia, Iran, Iraq, Jordan, Kazakhstan, Kuwait, Kyrgyzstan, Lebanon, Libya, Mali, Morocco, Nigeria, North Korea, Oman, Pakistan, Qatar, Russia, Saudi Arabia, Somalia, Sudan, Syria, Tajikistan, Tunisia,Turkey, United Arab Emirates, Uzbekistan, Yemen, and the Palestinian Territories.

Rand's amendment was rejected last week but Cruz voted for it. I don't think they all hate Muslims but it's pretty obvious they are all willing to throw them under the bus to win (save maybe Jeb.)

[drew]

This will kill Trump's campaign no doubt about it.

[benjipwns]

This will kill Trump's campaign no doubt about it.

https://twitter.com/philipaklein/status/673995262767927297

Philip KleinVerified account
‏@philipaklein

. @realDonaldTrump will get days of coverage in which GOP rivals, Obama, Clinton, media, will all sound same. This is bad for him how?

[thisismyusername]

This will kill Trump's campaign no doubt about it.

Not really. Did you see the Daily Show with Trevor Noah bit with the supporters he has?

*dude looks around like it's just him and the reporter* "Yes, I support him banning all Muslims."

Trevor: "Dude, your secret is safe with her and the Central News Network." 

(Oh and he did a bit about how Trump totally wants to fuck his daughter which was pretty )

[benjipwns]

Afghanistan, Algeria, Bahrain, Bangladesh, Egypt, Eritrea, Indonesia, Iran, Iraq, Jordan, Kazakhstan, Kuwait, Kyrgyzstan, Lebanon, Libya, Mali, Morocco, Nigeria, North Korea, Oman, Pakistan, Qatar, Russia, Saudi Arabia, Somalia, Sudan, Syria, Tajikistan, Tunisia,Turkey, United Arab Emirates, Uzbekistan, Yemen, and the Palestinian Territories.

Rand's amendment was rejected last week but Cruz voted for it. I don't think they all hate Muslims but it's pretty obvious they are all willing to throw them under the bus to win (save maybe Jeb.)

He forgot India. (#3 in Muslims.)

And Malaysia, Ethiopia, Russia, Niger, Tanzania, Senegal, and Mali? (#20-26 in number of Muslims...and all with 15-20x the number of Muslims as Bahrain. Also, greater % of the population except Russia.)

[benjipwns]

(Oh and he did a bit about how Trump totally wants to fuck his daughter which was pretty )

I knew this years ago from watching the inferior The Apprentice. He sorta feels the same way about Donald Jr.

But not Eric. Nobody cares about Eric.

[Mandark]

Rand's amendment was rejected last week but Cruz voted for it. I don't think they all hate Muslims but it's pretty obvious they are all willing to throw them under the bus to win (save maybe Jeb.)

Yes.

The problem isn't Trump himself, it's the racism and xenophobia that are deep and broad enough that he's been able to maintain a high level of support months into the campaign.  I still don't think he's getting anywhere close to the nomination, but if/when his polling numbers finally crash it will be too late to say it was because people were repulsed by his views.  Those voters will still be a key part of any Republican victory scenario, and the candidates know they have to placate that crowd, though in a more respectable way.

Seen a few Republicans suggest, with varying degrees of seriousness, that Trump is really a mole sent by the Clintons to make the Republican party look bad.  "Help, he tricked us into being racist by saying racist things and getting us to applaud!"  If it is a long con, it ain't exactly The Sting.

[benjipwns]

It's been a self-reinforcing cycle where things have swung into Trump's wheelhouse. I think what Trump refuses to say/qualify/etc. has helped him as much if not more as the things he actually says.

From that CNN NH poll:

The recent terrorist attacks in Paris and San Bernardino have redefined this race as one about foreign policy. Half (50%) of Republican Primary voters cite foreign policy or national security, including terrorism, as the most important in deciding to vote in the presidential primary. This represents a 29 percentage popint increase since September. Eighteen percent (18%) of likely Republican Primary voters cite jobs or the economy, 12% cite immigration, 4% cite the budget or national debt, 4% cite health care, 1% cite social issues, 1% cite taxes and 1% cite education.

...

When asked who could best manage government spending 42% chose Trump, 10% chose Bush, 9% chose Kasich and 8% were unsure.

A third of likely voters (33%) chose Trump as the best to handle ISIS, 11% chose Bush, 9% chose Christie and 15% were unsure.

Forty-five percent (45%) chose Trump as the best to handle illegal immigration, 14% chose Rubio, 11% chose Bush and 9% unsure.

Thirty-six percent (36%) chose Trump as the best to handle taxation, 10% chose Bush, 8% chose Kasich and 14% were unsure.

From CNN's Iowa poll:

Candidate would do the best job handling:
The economy: Trump 52%, Carson 10%, Cruz 10%
Illegal Immigration: Trump 49%, Cruz 16%, Rubio 11%
Foreign Policy: Trump 30%, Cruz 21%, Rubio 13%
ISIS: Trump 41%, Cruz 18%, Bush/Rubio 9%

Has best chance of winning the general: Trump 42%, Cruz 17%, Carson/Rubio 11%

Most important issue
GOP: 29% economy, 27% terrorism, 13% foreign policy, 10% illegal immigration
DEM: 38% economy, 22% health care, 13% terrorism, 10% foreign policy

[chronovore]

(Oh and he did a bit about how Trump totally wants to fuck his daughter which was pretty )

To be fair, I'd kinda like to nail his daughter, too. She has fantastic annunciation. I can only imagine the dirty talk...

[Mandark]

It's been a self-reinforcing cycle where things have swung into Trump's wheelhouse.

Sure, but the fact that scary brown people are his "wheelhouse" is kinda the problem.

Would like to see how those cross-tabs change after he loses his massive advantage in media coverage.  Will he get slammed on a couple particular issues, or will those numbers fall more or less uniformly?

[Human Snorenado]

I have plenty of liberal friends that believe the "Trump is a Clinton ploy" thing, or that SOMEONE out there is pulling his strings.

I'm still a firm believer in Occam's razor, though, and until someone can offer me a better explanation than "Blowhard egomaniac that happens to be Worthington's Law made flesh with long history of saying stupid shit says more stupid shit," I think that's the most plausible scenario.

[jakefromstatefarm]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Immigration_Act_of_1924
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Immigration_Act_of_1917

these were passed during the height of the eugenics movement in America, you can see it reflected in some of the language:

Sec. 9. That it shall be unlawful for any person, including any transportation company other than railway lines entering the United States from foreign contiguous territory, or the owner, master, agent, or consignee of any vessel to bring to the United States either from a foreign country or any insular possession of the United States any alien afflicted with idiocy, insanity, imbecility, feeble-mindedness, epilepsy, constitutional psychopathic inferiority, chronic alcoholism, tuberculosis in any form, or a loathsome or dangerous contagious disease, and if it shall appear to the satisfaction of the Secretary of Labor that any alien so brought to the United States was afflicted with any of the said diseases or disabilities at the time of foreign embarkation, and that the existence of such disease of disability might have been detected by means of a competent medical examination at such time, such person or transportation company, or the master, agent, owner, or consignee of any such vessel shall pay to the collector of customs of the customs district in which the port of arrival is located the sum of $1,000, and in addition a sum equal to that paid by such alien for his transportation from the initial point of departure, indicated in his ticket, to the port of arrival for each and every violation of the provisions of this section, such latter sum to be delivered by the collector of customs to the alien on whose account assessed. It shall also be unlawful for any such person to bring to any port of the United States any alien afflicted with any mental defect other than those above specifically named, or physical defect of a nature which may affect his ability to earn a living, as contemplated in section 3 of this Act, and if it shall appear to the satisfaction of the Secretary of Labor that any alien so brought to the United States was so afflicted at the time of foreign embarkation, and that the existence of such mental or physical defect might have been detected by means of a competent medical examination at such time, such person shall pay to the collector of customs of the customs district in which the port of arrival is located the sum of $250, and in addition a sum equal to that paid by such alien for his transportation from the initial point of departure, indicated in his ticket, to the port of arrival, for each and every violation of this provision such latter sum to be delivered by the collector of customs of the alien for whose account assessed.

legislation nominally targeted at people with revolutionary ideology or a (perceived) inability to labor within a market capitalist economy enabled by racist pseudo-science. when you see it euphemized as 'designed to preserve American homogeneity', that's what that means.

[benjipwns]

Scary brown people are a key issue for the GOP.  Trump's just the most-willing salesman. Since his ego is too big to ever admit wrongs it makes him look tough and the others like they're backing down to the lieberal media.

The racist mobs taking over colleges and kicking out white people, expansion of ISIS and the recent terrorism were all opportunities for other candidates to use those issues, but his unwavering rock solid image has made him now an expert on all those issues too, while the others continue to seem like politicians. Even attacking Trump re-enforces this cycle. He had already picked up the jobs and economy ones just from talking about his great deals and negotiating ability and being a businessman.

Carson was largely immune because he was in a similar position, but then he got overtaken by events right as his image was getting battered.

If Trump drops, I think Cruz is the largest beneficiary. They agree on the key scary brown people issues, and unlike Rubio, Cruz has never tried to sell out America to the Forces of Shamnesty.

[benjipwns]

these were passed during the height of the eugenics movement in America, you can see it reflected in some of the language

legislation nominally targeted at people with revolutionary ideology or a (perceived) inability to labor within a market capitalist economy enabled by racist pseudo-science. when you see it euphemized as 'designed to preserve American homogeneity', that's what that means.

It can't happen here.

[Cerveza mas fina]

I think trump might go all the way if muslin fear and hate is as strong in the us as in the eu

Right wing anti immigrant and muslim parties have won everywhere here

[Stoney Mason]

I think trump might go all the way if muslin fear and hate is as strong in the us as in the eu

Right wing anti immigrant and muslim parties have won everywhere here

I never put anything beyond the dumbness of average people. And as pointed out earlier, its not like the rest of the republicans have been much better than Trump. He's just the one willing to say the most insane shit out loud instead of just using the general fear/hate mongering toward arabs. 

[benjipwns]

I think that's where a lot of the shock value of Trump is coming from. He's not a politician, he also gives no fucks, so he has no problem with letting his rhetoric get impolitic as he runs with the crowd.

His actual policy isn't some extremist right-wing of the GOP, if anything he's probably in the "middle" of the field. If you were to stick Pataki on one wing and Cruz on the other.

The exception is obviously immigration. But there, Trump is in line with the base voter of the party. It's the establishment and their politicians far out of step because they're drooling at the idea that some kind of amnesty will win the party the hispanic vote. Everybody was muddling up their immigration positions, including the ones who were closer to Trump, and it left the massive opening for Trump to jabber on about Mexicans and suddenly seize the issue and put it on the forefront, and send the former anti-immigrant candidates to scramble back and even the shamnesty ones like Rubio and Jeb? to start trying harder to mask it.

I mean, is Trump wanting to ban Islamic immigrants for a period a worse or better position than wrecking up the Middle East constantly like some "sane" candidates (Rubio, Christie, Graham, Jeb, etc.) advocate on the regular? I'm not sure if presented with the false choice I wouldn't prefer Trump's ban, especially if it could be sunsetted in the law. (And knowing the ban on American citizens returning would never hold up in court. Along with who knows how much else of it would get chopped up.)

[Mandark]

It's the establishment and their politicians far out of step because they're drooling at the idea that some kind of amnesty will win the party the hispanic vote.

You really gotta stop reading Mickey Kaus, man.

[Stoney Mason]

I mean, is Trump wanting to ban Islamic immigrants for a period a worse or better position than wrecking up the Middle East constantly like some "sane" candidates (Rubio, Christie, Graham, Jeb, etc.) advocate on the regular? I'm not sure if presented with the false choice I wouldn't prefer Trump's ban, especially if it could be sunsetted in the law. (And knowing the ban on American citizens returning would never hold up in court. Along with who knows how much else of it would get chopped up.)

The thing is I'm even going to parse it. All their policies are a mix of either being morally disgusting or completely ineffective and not understanding the larger problems that are going on in the middle east and where isil/isis fit into those issues. There are the same people who can't understand that going into iraq was a large ingredient that caused this situation so the fact that they want to repeat the same mistakes again isn't remotely surprising. Our policy has either been misguided or manipulative in the middle east for decades and it doesn't look to change any time soon. 

The fact that saying the most disgusting things has put him at the top of the polls should be a wake up call for America. But nothing ever functions that way in this society. It's been a hilarious goof to people this whole time.  It's why that whole armed people going to mosques thing pissed me off. The fact that shit like that is happening but people aren't talking about it says leagues to me mixed in with his position.

As much as I disagree with Ron Paul on economic issues where is the Republican saying any of this. Certainly not his idiotic son. 

[benjipwns]

You really gotta stop reading Mickey Kaus, man.

I haven't in forever, his site became just a republishing of his twitter feed.

But that notion goes back a ways and beyond Kaus, it was a major reason Turd Blossom pushed so hard for W. and the GOP to use political capital on "comprehensive immigration reform" during 2005-2007. And it has been simmering every since from my trolling of conservative circles for a decade plus.

I may have overstated with "win the hispanic vote" rather than "make it competitive."

I just learned this from visiting Kaus though: That Quinnipiac poll had Ted Cruz with a better favorability among Hispanics (-8) than Rubio (-20).

As much as I disagree with Ron Paul on economic issues where is the Republican saying any of this. Certainly not his idiotic son.

As disappointing as Rand has been, this is one area he hasn't been that bad on chasing votes he'll never get thankfully.

Debate clips in spoiler:

spoiler (click to show/hide)

[close]

[Mandark]

I forgot, but Rand was talking some serious bullshit after the Charlie Hebdo shooting, too.

[benjipwns]

He's stuck well to his core foreign policy/marijuana/criminal justice reform, but he's been all over the map on the national security apparatus and immigration especially.

I knew he was going to be socially conservative pandering, but was hoping he didn't go too far on immigration and other stuff. I guess Trump and whatever's going on with his dad's people has really got them shook. Probably will still toss him a primary vote if I remember and are out and about on primary day. If only to claim I'm actually just checking out the turnout and voting so nobody thinks I'm weird(er).

Or Sanders if he's still in.

[Madrun Badrun]

Banned from GAF, Banned from America.

I have no home.

Want to become a gay ocean pirate with me?

[Joe Molotov]

Banned from GAF, Banned from America.

I have no home.

[ToxicAdam]

Want to become a gay ocean pirate with me?

The lack of punctuation leads me to believe that there is a gay ocean somewhere.

All aboard, amirite?

[Madrun Badrun]

Just don't swallow the salt water

[Mandark]

 

[jakefromstatefarm]

the not sures are just as tbh

[brawndolicious]

I'm just hoping people in those surveys don't take their own opinion on American politics seriously. Herd mentality.

[Mandark]

Disclaimers: it's PPP, which is a liberal-leaning pollster, so there's some incentive to bait conservative voters into crazy answers.  Also, questions like this (and the Obama birth stuff) get symbolic answers, where people are mostly just signalling approval or disapproval of some group or person.  There's no substantial, organized, active lobby trying to shut down mosques.

Still, though.

[Steve Contra]

I don't Mandark, have you been down to the South recently?  people will insert the craziest sounding shit into conversations like it's accepted knowledge.  I have no doubt those numbers are fairly accurate.

[Great Rumbler]

And in other "Old white people having 'scust views on race" news, this time from Supreme Court:

Nevertheless, Chief Justice John Roberts seemed to question why diversity in the classroom was important to a university.

"What unique perspective does a minority student bring to a physics class?" he asked Gregory Garre, the attorney representing the University of Texas.

Alito argued the system was based on “terrible stereotyping" because it suggested minorities coming through the top 10 program weren't good enough.

“It's kind of the assumption that if the—if a student—if a black student or a Hispanic student is admitted as part of the top 10-percent plan, it has to be because that student didn't have to compete against very many whites and— and Asians,” he said.

“Grutter said that we did not expect these sort of programs to be around in 25 years, and that was 12 years ago,” Roberts said, referring to the 2003 Supreme Court decision that upheld affirmative action. “Are we going to hit the deadline? Is this going to be done on—in your view in 12 years?

In response, Garre pointed to the systemic issues that the affirmative action policy sought to address, like the racial test score gap. But Roberts insisted that the program needed to be temporary and asked Garre: "When do you think your program will be done?”

Justice Antonin Scalia argued that affirmative action programs were hurting black students by sending them to schools that were too advanced for them.

He pointed to those who "contend it does not benefit African-Americans to—to get them into the University of Texas where they do not do well, as opposed to having them go to a less-advanced school, a less—a slower-track school where they do well."

http://talkingpointsmemo.com/dc/fisher-case-scotus-arguments

[Human Snorenado]

I don't Mandark, have you been down to the South recently?  people will insert the craziest sounding shit into conversations like it's accepted knowledge.  I have no doubt those numbers are fairly accurate.

I live in the South and can confirm this

[Madrun Badrun]

TBH the unique perspective argument russles my jimmies too when it comes to science and maths.  I think its pretty condescending too, like minorities need something unique to be able to compete instead of being just being able to compete in the same as a white dude as is. 

[Mupepe]

TBH the unique perspective argument russles my jimmies too when it comes to science and maths.  I think its pretty condescending too like minorities need something unique to be able to compete instead of being just being able to compete in the same as a white dude.

Unique?  Like sports?

[Steve Contra]

TBH the unique perspective argument russles my jimmies too when it comes to science and maths.  I think its pretty condescending too like minorities need something unique to be able to compete instead of being just being able to compete in the same as a white dude.

[Phoenix Dark]

I don't Mandark, have you been down to the South recently?  people will insert the craziest sounding shit into conversations like it's accepted knowledge.  I have no doubt those numbers are fairly accurate.

I live in the the South and am a Baby Boomer and can confirm this

fixed

[brawndolicious]

I think not growing up with parents who are familiar with the college process is something that sets you back regardless of which field you're interested in. If you come from a lower socioeconomic background where not a lot of relatives went to college/speak English well then that's going to give you less resources as far as knowing what to expect in college. There's a reason why so many students drop out in their freshman year and of the struggling students I tutored, none of them were dumb or slow but instead seemed flustered by the way college works.

Pretty much everyone I knew in my teens though had college educated parents so I'm just making a reasonable assumption about how that shapes your views on what to expect.

[Madrun Badrun]

TBH the unique perspective argument russles my jimmies too when it comes to science and maths.  I think its pretty condescending too like minorities need something unique to be able to compete instead of being just being able to compete in the same as a white dude.

Don't know why I got picarded for this.  Its an argument used a lot to argue for more women in tech as well, like women are some how have better capacity to create user interfaces or some shit.  I'm all for more minorities in class rooms and more women in tech, I just don't like this line of argument for it. 

[Steve Contra]

TBH the unique perspective argument russles my jimmies too when it comes to science and maths.  I think its pretty condescending too like minorities need something unique to be able to compete instead of being just being able to compete in the same as a white dude.

Don't know why I got picarded for this.  Its an argument used a lot to argue for more women in tech as well, like women are some how have better capacity to create user interfaces or some shit.  I'm all for more minorities in class rooms and more women in tech, I just don't like this line of argument for it.

Science isn't some pure pursuit with limitless resources.  There's all kinds of priorities, politics, budgets etc. that go into it, and when you just have white dudes in the field 

[octopushover]

letting women into labs is how we found out that squirters were just peeing. thanks, unique perspectives. 

[Phoenix Dark]

I don't think the alleged uniqueness that minorities can allegedly bring to a math class matters. The bigger, important issue is making sure the resources and options are in place for minorities (especially lower income minorities) to enter those classes and fields at higher rates than they are now. It shouldn't be stunning that whites, Indians, and Asians who attend better schools end up going further in hard sciences than blacks - or that boys might do better than girls in those classes given the differences in expectations/stereotypes/ways teachers handle them.

We might not be having this conversation if so many black kids weren't trapped in bad schools with stressed teachers who don't give a fuck after 3-5 years. This doesn't mean just dumping money into school districts every 4 to 8 years btw. There seems to be enough evidence that doesn't really work. Ultimately this is a pretty large socioeconomic issue about tax bases as well as how state spending is delegated. If you live in a state with a republican governor like Michigan you can simply look at the budget and see inner cities get fucked in terms of where state money goes with respect to school funding.

In short it's hard to compete when the playing field isn't even.

[Shadow Mod]

Other people from different socioeonomic and cultural backgrounds do bring different perspectives and modes of thinking but yes this shouldn't be the catalyst to actually give a fuck about other demographics and helping them succeed. It's quite patronizing really.

[Samson Manhug]

Front page of the Toronto Star today:

[Brehvolution]

How un-christian of them.