Author Topic: US Politics Thread |OT| SAD TRUMP  (Read 6924279 times)

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Optimus

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| It's Bolton time!!
« Reply #16440 on: April 09, 2018, 12:16:09 AM »
I think Optimus is backpedaling cause the lizard people got to him.


I haven't backpedaled anywhere. I posted the interview, the 'MURICANS got triggered, I responded accordingly while mentioning how suspicious the time and circumstances are and generally offering the opposing viewpoint, which yeah, admittedly coincides with the fact that I'm deeply suspicious of the US government and its various shady organizations but for very good reasons.

Nola

  • Senior Member
Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| It's Bolton time!!
« Reply #16441 on: April 09, 2018, 12:19:02 AM »
nola, this is an even bigger waste of your time than when you argued with some hitchens fanboy about the iraq war for like 3 days straight

Thinking I have something good to do with my time tonight.  :foodcourt

spoiler (click to show/hide)
Though I think there really isn't much else for me to say TBH
[close]

Mandark

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| It's Bolton time!!
« Reply #16442 on: April 09, 2018, 12:22:10 AM »
lol is that real

A smidge of simplification on my part, but pretty much yeah.

if you're talking about rich Hollywood and corporate media liberals that had taken over the narrative before Bernie appeared they certainly don't. That's why they were spamming identity politics bullshit for years, to distract liberals from the actual problems in this country and promote fully controlled by their ilk crooks like Hillary using identity politics as the main defining difference between her and the other neoliberal party.

what I'm saying was that there was a conscious effort by rich liberals to steer the frustration of the middle class using identity politics as their main tool. As we now know that effort majorly backfired creating the alt-right movement that is now governing the country. Because let me make this clear, there is absolutely no doubt to anyone paying attention to the internet the last few years that it was these fucking assholes and the gullible idiots that were brainwashed by them are the ones responsible for creating the alt-right movement

Yes, organized. They started spamming this shit right after they realized that people are fucking pissed off. And you might doubt that they did it for that reason or that it was organized but you can't doubt that this divisive bullshit and the groups that follow it like religion are what birthed the alt-right movement

Intersectionality, critical race theory and other pseudo intellectual post-modernist bullshit have existed in academia for decades. The only thing that changed was that corporate media, and of course I'm including internet media in that list, started actively advertising it and hiring the unhirable idiots that graduated these degrees. The push for it the last 4-5 years has been so overwhelming and obvious that I don't really need more proof of it being shoved down our throats, the motivations behind it though are purely an educated guess. And I call it educated because this isn't the first and won't be the last time the ruling class is using identity politics to divide and distract the middle class, it's a historical fact that they're doing it especially in times of crisis.

They're forming discontent between different groups, men vs women, blacks vs whites and so on like they've always done except this time they're doing it in the name of so called tolerance because they can't use racism anymore like they did their rich daddies did some decades ago. Or they thought they couldn't, Trump proved them wrong on that one.

Oh please, don't act as if the media can't add fuel to the fire. A prime example of that is police brutality that, btw, affects everyone as the stats show. First they focus on police brutality from whites cops against black people to rile up black communities, not that some cops aren't racist pieces of shit but the exclusive focus on that is very telling, then when the riots happen they show black people fucking things up to rile up white suburban people.

Optimus

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| It's Bolton time!!
« Reply #16443 on: April 09, 2018, 12:26:19 AM »

Sounds awesome, but how do you propose we achieve that?

America's unilateral retreat into a full on isolationist country merely means Russia, China, and maybe if we are lucky the EU fill that vacuum. And it is hard for me to see how on net the world would be better off? How America would be better off? How less atrocities and human rights violations would occur?

China and Russia never showed signs of being full on imperialistic dumbfucks like the US does. They are assholes, no doubt about it, but they're usually defensive assholes instead of aggressive ones. Ukraine is a fine example of Western aggression and audacity for example, they organized a coup d' etat in a country under Russia's sphere of influence and when Putin responded like the asshole he is they bitched like they're the victims.  Imagine what the US would do if Putin had organized a coup d' etat in Israel for example. To summarize, it doesn't automatically mean that if the US stops screwing up the Middle East and the rest of the world that China and Russia will take over these "duties".
« Last Edit: April 09, 2018, 12:41:32 AM by Optimus »

Mandark

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| It's Bolton time!!
« Reply #16444 on: April 09, 2018, 12:31:26 AM »
nola, this is an even bigger waste of your time than when you argued with some hitchens fanboy about the iraq war for like 3 days straight

There is essentially no post that Nola won't give a sincere, three-paragraph response to.

Optimus

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| It's Bolton time!!
« Reply #16445 on: April 09, 2018, 12:33:21 AM »
maybe someone other than the saintly nola would take you seriously if you didn't use phrases like "imperialistic dumbfucks"

You should have realized by now that I don't give a flying fuck if you take me seriously.


lol is that real

A smidge of simplification on my part, but pretty much yeah.

if you're talking about rich Hollywood and corporate media liberals that had taken over the narrative before Bernie appeared they certainly don't. That's why they were spamming identity politics bullshit for years, to distract liberals from the actual problems in this country and promote fully controlled by their ilk crooks like Hillary using identity politics as the main defining difference between her and the other neoliberal party.

what I'm saying was that there was a conscious effort by rich liberals to steer the frustration of the middle class using identity politics as their main tool. As we now know that effort majorly backfired creating the alt-right movement that is now governing the country. Because let me make this clear, there is absolutely no doubt to anyone paying attention to the internet the last few years that it was these fucking assholes and the gullible idiots that were brainwashed by them are the ones responsible for creating the alt-right movement

Yes, organized. They started spamming this shit right after they realized that people are fucking pissed off. And you might doubt that they did it for that reason or that it was organized but you can't doubt that this divisive bullshit and the groups that follow it like religion are what birthed the alt-right movement

Intersectionality, critical race theory and other pseudo intellectual post-modernist bullshit have existed in academia for decades. The only thing that changed was that corporate media, and of course I'm including internet media in that list, started actively advertising it and hiring the unhirable idiots that graduated these degrees. The push for it the last 4-5 years has been so overwhelming and obvious that I don't really need more proof of it being shoved down our throats, the motivations behind it though are purely an educated guess. And I call it educated because this isn't the first and won't be the last time the ruling class is using identity politics to divide and distract the middle class, it's a historical fact that they're doing it especially in times of crisis.

They're forming discontent between different groups, men vs women, blacks vs whites and so on like they've always done except this time they're doing it in the name of so called tolerance because they can't use racism anymore like they did their rich daddies did some decades ago. Or they thought they couldn't, Trump proved them wrong on that one.

Oh please, don't act as if the media can't add fuel to the fire. A prime example of that is police brutality that, btw, affects everyone as the stats show. First they focus on police brutality from whites cops against black people to rile up black communities, not that some cops aren't racist pieces of shit but the exclusive focus on that is very telling, then when the riots happen they show black people fucking things up to rile up white suburban people.

Many truths in these posts. Liked.

Mandark

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| It's Bolton time!!
« Reply #16446 on: April 09, 2018, 01:03:09 AM »
Optimus and Jack are like wildly exaggerated caricatures of Bernie and Hillary stans, as seen through the eyes of their opponents.

Nola

  • Senior Member
Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| It's Bolton time!!
« Reply #16447 on: April 09, 2018, 01:09:56 AM »


China and Russia never showed signs of being full on imperialistic dumbfucks like the US does. They are assholes, no doubt about it, but they're usually defensive assholes instead of aggressive ones. Ukraine is a fine example of Western aggression and audacity for example, they organized a coup d' etat in a country under Russia's sphere of influence and when Putin responded like the asshole he is they bitched like they're the victims.  Imagine what the US would do if Putin had organized a coup d' etat in Israel for example. To summarize, it doesn't automatically mean that if the US stops screwing up the Middle East and the rest of the world that China and Russia will take over these "duties".
Not touching that Ukraine nonsense. That's a bridge too far even for my patience.

I'll just say this, it will be really hard for China to complete their One Belt, One Road initiative without the continuing expansion of their influence and power in the region. Which both they and Russia have continually sought in recent years and in response to America's slow shift away from the Middle East under Obama(and potentially Trump).


curly

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| It's Bolton time!!
« Reply #16448 on: April 09, 2018, 01:40:27 AM »
Optimus and Jack are like wildly exaggerated caricatures of Bernie and Hillary stans, as seen through the eyes of their opponents.

Optimus is one-note and shrill, Jack is a much more compelling character

Optimus

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| It's Bolton time!!
« Reply #16449 on: April 09, 2018, 01:47:00 AM »
Russian officials insisting on warning about the impending false flag attack just a couple of days before it happened, expecting it to happen very soon: http://tass.com/defense/998199

Quote
MOSCOW, April 6. /TASS/. Jabhat al-Nusra (a group outlawed in Russia) and the Free Syrian Army are planning chemical attacks with the use of chlorine in areas under their control, including Daraa’s district of Al-Balad, the chief of Russia’s center for the reconciliation of conflicting parties in Syria, Major-General Yuri Yevtushenko, said on Friday.

"The ringleaders of Jabhat al-Nusra and the Free Syrian Army, which are acting together, are plotting explosions of makeshift chemical charges containing chlorine in a number of areas under their control, including Al Balad in Daraa," he said.

Tipoffs about preparations being made for provocations in the south of Syria, including the use of chemical warfare agents, Yevtushenko said, had been received from the group Jaish Ahrar Al-Ashair, which has taken the government’s side.

Yevtushenko said "the militants plan to photograph and video the alleged effects of chemical weapons and show the clips to the public at large to blame government troops for civilians casualties, as well as to provide excuses for their own actions to disrupt ceasefire in Daraa."

The equipment for catching phony chemical attacks on camera is already in place and other preparations are on, he said.


More detailed stuff on the previous interview also mentioning 20 barrels of chlorine gas: http://eng.mil.ru/en/news_page/country/more.htm?id=12167157@egNews

Yes, they're both Russian sites. Cry moar 'muricans.

kingv

  • Senior Member
Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| It's Bolton time!!
« Reply #16450 on: April 09, 2018, 01:47:42 AM »

Sounds awesome, but how do you propose we achieve that?

America's unilateral retreat into a full on isolationist country merely means Russia, China, and maybe if we are lucky the EU fill that vacuum. And it is hard for me to see how on net the world would be better off? How America would be better off? How less atrocities and human rights violations would occur?

China and Russia never showed signs of being full on imperialistic dumbfucks like the US does. They are assholes, no doubt about it, but they're usually defensive assholes instead of aggressive ones. Ukraine is a fine example of Western aggression and audacity for example, they organized a coup d' etat in a country under Russia's sphere of influence and when Putin responded like the asshole he is they bitched like they're the victims.  Imagine what the US would do if Putin had organized a coup d' etat in Israel for example. To summarize, it doesn't automatically mean that if the US stops screwing up the Middle East and the rest of the world that China and Russia will take over these "duties".

Apparently, Optimus has never heard the perennial classic Justin Timberlake song “Crimea River”

kingv

  • Senior Member
Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| It's Bolton time!!
« Reply #16451 on: April 09, 2018, 01:48:41 AM »
Optimus and Jack are like wildly exaggerated caricatures of Bernie and Hillary stans, as seen through the eyes of their opponents.

Optimus is one-note and shrill, Jack is a much more compelling character

I never knew Optimus was a Bernie Stan, I always thought he was sort of one of those vaguely supports trump people.

Nola

  • Senior Member
Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| It's Bolton time!!
« Reply #16452 on: April 09, 2018, 01:50:37 AM »
Optimus and Jack are like wildly exaggerated caricatures of Bernie and Hillary stans, as seen through the eyes of their opponents.

Optimus is one-note and shrill, Jack is a much more compelling character

I never knew Optimus was a Bernie Stan, I always thought he was sort of one of those vaguely supports trump people.

Don't worry, he's that too.

Optimus

  • Lieutenant colonel, 26th Hate Machine battalion
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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| It's Bolton time!!
« Reply #16453 on: April 09, 2018, 01:58:58 AM »
Optimus and Jack are like wildly exaggerated caricatures of Bernie and Hillary stans, as seen through the eyes of their opponents.

Optimus is one-note and shrill, Jack is a much more compelling character

I never knew Optimus was a Bernie Stan, I always thought he was sort of one of those vaguely supports trump people.

Don't worry, he's that too.


Hitler. You forgot that I'm also a Hitler supporter. I mean, the Führer wasn't THAT bad.

Oh liberals...


Mandark

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| It's Bolton time!!
« Reply #16454 on: April 09, 2018, 02:04:21 AM »
More detailed stuff on the previous interview also mentioning 20 barrels of chlorine gas: http://eng.mil.ru/en/news_page/country/more.htm?id=12167157@egNews

Quote from: Russian Ministry of Defense
Besides, the Jabhat al-Nusra armed formations with support of so-called ‘White Helmets’ are preparing staged chemical attack near the settlements of al-Habid and Qalb Luza located 25 km northwest Idlib. Therefore, 20 containers with chloride have been delivered there.

Quote from: BBC
At least 70 people have died in a suspected chemical attack in Douma, the last rebel-held town in Syria's Eastern Ghouta, rescuers and medics say.

 


:thinking

Phoenix Dark

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| It's Bolton time!!
« Reply #16455 on: April 09, 2018, 02:08:30 AM »
The only trustworthy sources are Russian. Who better to trust than media from a country where one man rules all.
010

Optimus

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| It's Bolton time!!
« Reply #16456 on: April 09, 2018, 02:17:17 AM »
More detailed stuff on the previous interview also mentioning 20 barrels of chlorine gas: http://eng.mil.ru/en/news_page/country/more.htm?id=12167157@egNews

Quote from: Russian Ministry of Defense
Besides, the Jabhat al-Nusra armed formations with support of so-called ‘White Helmets’ are preparing staged chemical attack near the settlements of al-Habid and Qalb Luza located 25 km northwest Idlib. Therefore, 20 containers with chloride have been delivered there.

Quote from: BBC
At least 70 people have died in a suspected chemical attack in Douma, the last rebel-held town in Syria's Eastern Ghouta, rescuers and medics say.

(Image removed from quote.)  (Image removed from quote.)


:thinking


And in the second interview they mentioned Daraa but like the first one they mentioned it was one of the suspected districts. Nice try though, you sure proved them wrong.

Mandark

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| It's Bolton time!!
« Reply #16457 on: April 09, 2018, 02:17:38 AM »
Also, the Russian claim was that chlorine was delivered to Jabhat al-Nusra.

The rebel group that's in Douma is Jaysh al-Islam.

So.

curly

  • cultural maoist
  • Senior Member
Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| It's Bolton time!!
« Reply #16458 on: April 09, 2018, 02:24:04 AM »
More detailed stuff on the previous interview also mentioning 20 barrels of chlorine gas: http://eng.mil.ru/en/news_page/country/more.htm?id=12167157@egNews

Quote from: Russian Ministry of Defense
Besides, the Jabhat al-Nusra armed formations with support of so-called ‘White Helmets’ are preparing staged chemical attack near the settlements of al-Habid and Qalb Luza located 25 km northwest Idlib. Therefore, 20 containers with chloride have been delivered there.

Quote from: BBC
At least 70 people have died in a suspected chemical attack in Douma, the last rebel-held town in Syria's Eastern Ghouta, rescuers and medics say.

(Image removed from quote.)  (Image removed from quote.)


:thinking



And in the second interview they mentioned Daraa but like the first one they mentioned it was one of the suspected districts. Nice try though, you sure proved them wrong.

what does Daara have to do with the attack in Douma

Optimus

  • Lieutenant colonel, 26th Hate Machine battalion
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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| It's Bolton time!!
« Reply #16459 on: April 09, 2018, 02:33:02 AM »
Also, the Russian claim was that chlorine was delivered to Jabhat al-Nusra.

The rebel group that's in Douma is Jaysh al-Islam.

So.


From the little I just read Jaysh al-Islam is allies with the Free Syrian Army which they also mentioned. Anyway, we'll see what will happen next and who gains from it. Btw, someone just bombed a Syrian airbase, US denies involvement: https://www.standard.co.uk/news/world/syria-airbase-hit-in-missile-attack-but-united-states-denies-it-carried-air-attack-a3808696.html

Mandark

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| It's Bolton time!!
« Reply #16460 on: April 09, 2018, 03:00:45 AM »
So the rebels carried a false flag attack under the direction of the CIA to justify a retaliatory missile strike that US gov wouldn't take credit for

And this is the third such false flag! The second time was so they could do two days of bombing, and the first time was so that, um, Obama could ask Congress to debate an AUMF for Syria which never passed, then get a CW disarmament agreement with Syria, brokered by Russia.

This is a really shitty conspiracy.

Great Rumbler

  • Dab on the sinners
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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| It's Bolton time!!
« Reply #16461 on: April 09, 2018, 03:08:04 AM »
As for why Assad would use chemical weapons, the link Optimus posted a bit ago mentions this:

Quote from: syria-airbase-hit-in-missile-attack-but-united-states-denies-it-carried-air-attack-a3808696.html
Hours after the attack, the Army of Islam rebel group agreed to surrender the town and evacuate their fighters to rebel-held northern Syria, Syrian state media reported.

The group also agreed to give up its prisoners, a key government demand.

Quote
More than 100 buses entered the town Sunday night to transport fighters and their families to Jarablus, a town under the shared control of rebels and Turkey, said Syrian state-affiliated al-Ikhbariya TV.
dog

warcock

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Re: Gold-Plated Trumpmerica Thread |OT| On-time and under-budget
« Reply #16462 on: April 09, 2018, 08:14:34 AM »
 :-*

warcock

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Re: Gold-Plated Trumpmerica Thread |OT| On-time and under-budget
« Reply #16463 on: April 09, 2018, 08:15:39 AM »
 :-*

kingv

  • Senior Member
Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| It's Bolton time!!
« Reply #16464 on: April 09, 2018, 08:47:48 AM »
The cognitive dissonance it must take to calll America the aggressor and paint Russia as mostly innocent, when Russia has invaded  literally two countries in the last 10 years for the sole purpose to take land from them.

headwalk

  • brutal deluxe
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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| It's Bolton time!!
« Reply #16465 on: April 09, 2018, 08:48:52 AM »
i reckon it was a rare double false flag by the russians. always one step ahead of the game.

agrajag

  • Senior Member
Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| It's Bolton time!!
« Reply #16466 on: April 09, 2018, 09:32:59 AM »
It's a false flag-ception

Joe Molotov

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| It's Bolton time!!
« Reply #16467 on: April 09, 2018, 09:33:30 AM »
Too many pages to catch up on this morning, have we bombed Iran yet?
©@©™

Brehvolution

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| It's Bolton time!!
« Reply #16468 on: April 09, 2018, 10:12:21 AM »
2 false flags don't make a truth flag.  :doge
©ZH

etiolate

  • Senior Member
Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| It's Bolton time!!
« Reply #16469 on: April 09, 2018, 12:54:28 PM »
Triggerin this shithole

God's work  :itagaki


PS: who are we calling "rebels" ?  We don't have good info coming from Syria and American press cut out international reporter money a good while ago and doesn't really care to get better info. We haven't fixed the problems that lead to the Iraq war, so I am always chagrined to see people react to unverifiable info with casual acceptance.
« Last Edit: April 09, 2018, 12:59:04 PM by etiolate »

agrajag

  • Senior Member
Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| It's Bolton time!!
« Reply #16470 on: April 09, 2018, 12:55:23 PM »
cool story brah


Great Rumbler

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| It's Bolton time!!
« Reply #16471 on: April 09, 2018, 01:11:12 PM »
Quote from: Donald Trump
When we do a deal with China – which probably we will, if we don’t they’ll have to pay pretty high taxes to do business with our country. That’s a possibility. But if we do a deal with China, if during the course of a negotiation they want to hit the farmers, because they think that hits me, I wouldn’t say that’s nice, but I tell you, our farmers are great patriots. These are great patriots. They understand that they’re doing this for the country. And we’ll make it up to them. In the end they’re going to be much stronger than they are right now.

American farmers are about to get completely screwed over. :doge
dog

TakingBackSunday

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| It's Bolton time!!
« Reply #16472 on: April 09, 2018, 01:23:54 PM »
All I got from the last two pages was

C O R P O R A T E    M E D I A
püp

Rufus

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| It's Bolton time!!
« Reply #16473 on: April 09, 2018, 01:37:45 PM »
I am always chagrined to see people react to unverifiable info with casual acceptance.
Not enough, me thinks.

agrajag

  • Senior Member
Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| It's Bolton time!!
« Reply #16474 on: April 09, 2018, 01:42:39 PM »
sy hersh tho

kingv

  • Senior Member
Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| It's Bolton time!!
« Reply #16475 on: April 09, 2018, 01:51:53 PM »
Quote from: Donald Trump
When we do a deal with China – which probably we will, if we don’t they’ll have to pay pretty high taxes to do business with our country. That’s a possibility. But if we do a deal with China, if during the course of a negotiation they want to hit the farmers, because they think that hits me, I wouldn’t say that’s nice, but I tell you, our farmers are great patriots. These are great patriots. They understand that they’re doing this for the country. And we’ll make it up to them. In the end they’re going to be much stronger than they are right now.

American farmers are about to get completely screwed over. :doge

If this were poker, Donald would be holding a pair of threes, and then winking at everybody around him whispering “don’t worry, I have a pair of 3s” as he continued to raise his bet.

Brehvolution

  • Until at last, I threw down my enemy and smote his ruin upon the mountainside.
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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| It's Bolton time!!
« Reply #16476 on: April 09, 2018, 01:56:09 PM »
Quote from: Donald Trump
When we do a deal with China – which probably we will, if we don’t they’ll have to pay pretty high taxes to do business with our country. That’s a possibility. But if we do a deal with China, if during the course of a negotiation they want to hit the farmers, because they think that hits me, I wouldn’t say that’s nice, but I tell you, our farmers are great patriots. These are great patriots. They understand that they’re doing this for the country. And we’ll make it up to them. In the end they’re going to be much stronger than they are right now.

American farmers are about to get completely screwed over. :doge

My bet is they will just up farm subsidies to make up anything lost like the good little socialist trump is. Very free with other people's money. Sad!
©ZH

Boredfrom

  • Senior Member
Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| It's Bolton time!!
« Reply #16477 on: April 09, 2018, 03:02:04 PM »
Quote from: Donald Trump
When we do a deal with China – which probably we will, if we don’t they’ll have to pay pretty high taxes to do business with our country. That’s a possibility. But if we do a deal with China, if during the course of a negotiation they want to hit the farmers, because they think that hits me, I wouldn’t say that’s nice, but I tell you, our farmers are great patriots. These are great patriots. They understand that they’re doing this for the country. And we’ll make it up to them. In the end they’re going to be much stronger than they are right now.

American farmers are about to get completely screwed over. :doge

I think they are going to notice that you are not having their bests interests in mind when they start to lose money while you bitch about Oprah in your private golf club.

Mandark

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| It's Bolton time!!
« Reply #16478 on: April 09, 2018, 03:57:39 PM »
Lemme rewind the thread a bit. I think the whole "who do you trust in Syria" conversation wound up kind of missing the mark and being about the general credibility levels of the Russian and American governments.

That's probably not the best frame. A lot of the information coming out of Syria is from third parties like the Red Cross, HRC, Amnesty International, etc. They're not infallible, but there's much much less of an incentive for them to mislead than there is for Russia, who's an active participant in the war and who vouched for the removal of chemical weapons by the Syrian government. Russia's been pretty predictably running a PR campaign against the "white helmets" (rescue workers in Syria who also document the war) as essentially being crisis actors and terrorists.

Skullfuckers Anonymous

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Nintex

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| It's Bolton time!!
« Reply #16480 on: April 09, 2018, 04:14:51 PM »
https://twitter.com/MikeDelMoro/status/983435153430274048

This was a ploy so the FBI finds nothing incriminating on Cohen.  :doge /4dchess
🤴

FStop7

  • Senior Member
Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| It's Bolton time!!
« Reply #16481 on: April 09, 2018, 04:20:30 PM »
Trump should fire the agents who raided Cohen's office.  No need to fire Mueller when nobody will carry out his orders.

 :rollsafe

Nintex

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| It's Bolton time!!
« Reply #16482 on: April 09, 2018, 04:42:42 PM »
https://twitter.com/kylegriffin1/status/983438957882085377

Still searching for the pee pee tape before Trump launches WW3.

This is the most exciting episode of 24 yet but where is Jack?


https://twitter.com/stevebruskCNN/status/983444351660560384
 :dead
🤴

agrajag

  • Senior Member
Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| It's Bolton time!!
« Reply #16483 on: April 09, 2018, 04:45:09 PM »
Yeah, like Michael Cohen keeps "documents" around. He's not a lawyer lawyer.

Phoenix Dark

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| It's Bolton time!!
« Reply #16484 on: April 09, 2018, 04:52:26 PM »
https://twitter.com/ddale8/status/983444866775609351

If this shit results in me eating crow from Optimus
:dead
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TakingBackSunday

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| It's Bolton time!!
« Reply #16485 on: April 09, 2018, 05:16:51 PM »
all because of a fake-tittied porn star

I request a thread change to "It's Bolt-On time!"
püp

Boredfrom

  • Senior Member
Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| It's Bolton time!!
« Reply #16486 on: April 09, 2018, 05:30:25 PM »
Im enjoying this season of Arrested Development.

Steve Contra

  • Bought a lemon tree straight cash
  • Senior Member
Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| It's Bolton time!!
« Reply #16487 on: April 09, 2018, 05:33:35 PM »
You'd have to have something exceptionally strong to get a judge to sign off on a warrant for the lawyer of a sitting president. :whew
vin

TakingBackSunday

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| It's Bolton time!!
« Reply #16488 on: April 09, 2018, 05:39:06 PM »
where does seth rich factor into this whole thing
püp

benjipwns

  • your bright ideas always burn me
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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| It's Bolton time!!
« Reply #16489 on: April 09, 2018, 05:43:28 PM »
It's unconstitutional for a prosecutor to seize the records of a lawyer due to lawyer client executive privilege*. This is just the latest in a long line of destruction of the rule of law by Obama's FBI. Notice how they didn't do this to uncover Hillary's missing e-mails.

*Sources: Sean Hannity, Esq.; YourNewsWire.com.

Nola

  • Senior Member
Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| It's Bolton time!!
« Reply #16490 on: April 09, 2018, 05:46:40 PM »
You'd have to have something exceptionally strong to get a judge to sign off on a warrant for the lawyer of a sitting president. :whew

EDIT: PD has a much better, accurate write up. I was paraphrasing the “expert” on CNN.
« Last Edit: April 09, 2018, 06:01:12 PM by Nola »

Phoenix Dark

  • I got no game it's just some bitches understand my story
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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| It's Bolton time!!
« Reply #16491 on: April 09, 2018, 05:55:46 PM »
You'd have to have something exceptionally strong to get a judge to sign off on a warrant for the lawyer of a sitting president. :whew
Quote
According to Cohen's own lawyer, the U.S. Attorney's Office for the Southern District of New York secured the search warrants for the FBI. Assuming this report is correct, that means that a very mainstream U.S. Attorney's Office — not just Special Counsel Robert Mueller's office — thought that there was enough for a search warrant here.

It's not just that the office thought that there was enough for a search warrant. They thought there was enough for a search warrant of an attorney's office for that attorney's client communications. That's a very fraught and extraordinary move that requires multiple levels of authorization within the Department of Justice.

Such a search requires high-level approval. The USAM requires such a search warrant to be approved by the U.S. Attorney — the head of the office, a Presidential appointee — and requires "consultation" with the Criminal Division of the U.S. Department of Justice. This is not a couple of rogue AUSAs sneaking in a warrant.

Robert Mueller is aggressive on this sort of thing; he already sought and obtained a court ruling that some of Paul Manafort's communications with his lawyers were not privileged because they were undertaken for the purpose of fraud — the so-called "crime-fraud exception" to the attorney-client privilege

A Magistrate Judge signed off on this. Federal magistrate judges review search warrant applications. A Magistrate Judge therefore reviewed this application and found probable cause — that is, probable cause to believe that the subject premises contains specified evidence of a specified federal crime. Now, Magistrate Judges sometimes are a little too rubber-stampy for my taste. But here, where the Magistrate Judge knew that this would become one of the most scrutinized search warrant applications ever, and because the nature of the warrant of an attorney's office is unusual, you can expect that the Magistrate Judge felt pretty confident that there was enough there.

The search warrant application is almost certainly still under seal, and even Michael Cohen doesn't get to see it [yet]. But the FBI would have left the warrant itself — and that shows (1) the federal criminal statutes they were investigating, and (2) the list of items they wanted to seize. Much can be learned for those. Assuming Michael Cohen doesn't release it, watch for it to be leaked.

this is a Big Deal
https://www.popehat.com/2018/04/09/the-search-of-trump-lawyer-michael-cohens-office-what-we-can-infer-immediately/

:whew
010

Nintex

  • Finish the Fight
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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| It's Bolton time!!
« Reply #16492 on: April 09, 2018, 05:59:55 PM »
https://twitter.com/costareports/status/983461712279097345

How is the nimble navigator going to wiggle himself out of this one.

« Last Edit: April 09, 2018, 06:15:52 PM by Nintex »
🤴

Nola

  • Senior Member
Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| It's Bolton time!!
« Reply #16493 on: April 09, 2018, 06:12:04 PM »
https://twitter.com/Tom_Winter/status/983448336970764291

My question, which someone tried to ask but didn’t get a straight answer, does this void all attorney/client privledge communication or only communication directly tied to this specific criminal matter? And how is that determined?


Mandark

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| It's Bolton time!!
« Reply #16494 on: April 09, 2018, 06:15:33 PM »
The lesson from Cohen, Manafort, Gates, etc. seems to be that white collar crime enforcement is so lax you can get away with all sorts of sketchy shit as long as you don't get the spotlight of one of your clients being the actual president of the country.

And maybe even then you're good unless he becomes the subject of a major counterintelligence investigation.

benjipwns

  • your bright ideas always burn me
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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| It's Bolton time!!
« Reply #16495 on: April 09, 2018, 06:16:57 PM »
Wow, so this is going exactly like Whitewater, then.
Exactly what this is, the Demoncraps are just trying to drain the President's resources through endless litigation as revenge for the Clinton's getting away with their crimes but only after being partly exposed thanks to underground media.

Only they picked the wrong fight, because Trump's VERY WEALTHY and has TREMENDOUS RESOURCES, THE BEST, THE BIGGEST. The swamp doesn't scare him, he'll tackle this with one hand while increasing the war with Syria with the other. The neoliberal globalist corporate media's tears are going to be so sweet.

Nintex

  • Finish the Fight
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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| It's Bolton time!!
« Reply #16496 on: April 09, 2018, 06:18:27 PM »
The lesson from Cohen, Manafort, Gates, etc. seems to be that white collar crime enforcement is so lax you can get away with all sorts of sketchy shit as long as you don't get the spotlight of one of your clients being the actual president of the country.

And maybe even then you're good unless he becomes the subject of a major counterintelligence investigation.
Yup, Flynn got away with lobbying for foreign governments. Manafort basically got away with being viceroy of Ukraine.

Just imagine what sort of illegal stuff they'll find on Cohen's computer.
https://twitter.com/jdawsey1/status/983468001730224128


Also it gets weird again because Trump apparently hired the people who signed off on the raid of Cohen
https://twitter.com/EricColumbus/status/983463483491651584
🤴

Steve Contra

  • Bought a lemon tree straight cash
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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| It's Bolton time!!
« Reply #16497 on: April 09, 2018, 06:20:29 PM »
https://twitter.com/Tom_Winter/status/983448336970764291

My question, which someone tried to ask but didn’t get a straight answer, does this void all attorney/client privledge communication or only communication directly tied to this specific criminal matter? And how is that determined?

A lawyer friend explained there will probably be someone with a knowledge of the scope of the warrant who will comb the data first under the eye of a federal judge and hand that over.
vin

Nola

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| It's Bolton time!!
« Reply #16498 on: April 09, 2018, 06:21:19 PM »
It may need to be reiterated but Mueller passed this off to the NYAG.

So it looks like that is it for his hands on this specific matter, so I’m not sure whitewater is a fair allegory.

Nola

  • Senior Member
Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| It's Bolton time!!
« Reply #16499 on: April 09, 2018, 06:22:50 PM »
https://twitter.com/Tom_Winter/status/983448336970764291

My question, which someone tried to ask but didn’t get a straight answer, does this void all attorney/client privledge communication or only communication directly tied to this specific criminal matter? And how is that determined?

A lawyer friend explained there will probably be someone with a knowledge of the scope of the warrant who will comb the data first under the eye of a federal judge and hand that over.

That makes sense, I figured it would be fairly limited in scope. Not just busting the doors open on an entire attorney/client.