Author Topic: US Politics Thread |OT| SAD TRUMP  (Read 6942454 times)

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Nintex

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| Attorney-client privilege is DEAD!
« Reply #16620 on: April 11, 2018, 03:09:06 PM »
https://twitter.com/NBCPolitics/status/984100114817060867
Trump still fighting the good fight against Hollywood rapists and gay frogs.
🤴

kingv

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| Attorney-client privilege is DEAD!
« Reply #16621 on: April 11, 2018, 03:18:56 PM »
I want to see Paul Ryan, Ron Paul, Rand Paul, and Paul Rudd throw down for the Republican nomination.

You forgot Paul Wall and Paul Reubens.

Nola

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| Attorney-client privilege is DEAD!
« Reply #16622 on: April 11, 2018, 03:20:31 PM »


On the positive side, grannies the country over can breath a momentary sigh of relief.

Mandark

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| Attorney-client privilege is DEAD!
« Reply #16623 on: April 11, 2018, 03:32:55 PM »
https://www.bloomberg.com/view/articles/2018-04-11/ryan-s-retirement-analysis-the-house-speaker-ducks-blame-again

Quote
Paul Ryan won't retire as the least effective House speaker of the modern era. Newt Gingrich's title is safe.

That lede.

Nola

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| Attorney-client privilege is DEAD!
« Reply #16624 on: April 11, 2018, 03:32:59 PM »
https://twitter.com/nytmike/status/984135946336694275

At first I was like WTF. But I guess maybe if there is a paper trail or something trying to hush up the tape it might help show a pattern of behavior that would make it hard for Cohen to claim the payments to Stormy and Karen were unrelated to helping Trump win the election, which was what Edwards argued. IDK. Time will tell I guess.

Mandark

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| Attorney-client privilege is DEAD!
« Reply #16625 on: April 11, 2018, 03:55:17 PM »
Remember when Ryan went on a listening tour about poverty?

That was like his Chris Gaines/Sasha Fierce phase.


agrajag

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| Attorney-client privilege is DEAD!
« Reply #16627 on: April 11, 2018, 04:36:44 PM »
Republicans like "wait, we can use weed to make money?  :crazy "

"My views on the subject have evolved  :ohyeah "

Mandark

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| Attorney-client privilege is DEAD!
« Reply #16628 on: April 11, 2018, 05:05:38 PM »
Oh shit.

Just remembered that Ryan's primary challenger is Paul Nehlen, a weird anti-semite. Wisconsin GOP has to be scrambling to get someone respectable to run.

Mandark

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| Attorney-client privilege is DEAD!
« Reply #16629 on: April 11, 2018, 05:13:38 PM »
Just looked it up and the deadline is June 1st so they should be fine. Chance they might lose the seat to that Bryce guy, which would be sweet.

Nola

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| Attorney-client privilege is DEAD!
« Reply #16630 on: April 11, 2018, 05:14:12 PM »
John Boehner's proposed solution to ending opioid epidemic is to give them different drugs to get addicted to

I mean there is some serious merit to using weed as an alternative to the much more addictive and dangerous opioids.

Lots of people are dying from opioid overdoses every day, not a whole lot of people dying from marijuana overdoses.

Mandark

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| Attorney-client privilege is DEAD!
« Reply #16631 on: April 11, 2018, 05:17:11 PM »
Also weed's not physically addicting in the way that heroin is.

The horse might be out of the barn, though. I read that the pattern has shifted to where most new users are introduced to opioids through heroin rather than pain meds.

Nola

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| Attorney-client privilege is DEAD!
« Reply #16632 on: April 11, 2018, 05:26:44 PM »
Also weed's not physically addicting in the way that heroin is.

The horse might be out of the barn, though. I read that the pattern has shifted to where most new users are introduced to opioids through heroin rather than pain meds.
Yeah it is definitely something that there doesn't seem to be a silver bullet solution to.

And it also doesn't help that the vast majority of the long-term addiction treatment industry is a fucking farce based on a cocktail of 1930's pop religious pseudoscience.


Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| Attorney-client privilege is DEAD!
« Reply #16633 on: April 11, 2018, 05:28:07 PM »
Just looked it up and the deadline is June 1st so they should be fine. Chance they might lose the seat to that Bryce guy, which would be sweet.

Crazy that a guy who's platform includes abolishing ICE might win.  :doge

FStop7

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| Attorney-client privilege is DEAD!
« Reply #16634 on: April 11, 2018, 05:35:43 PM »
https://www.mediaite.com/online/gop-congressman-rips-trump-in-insane-tirade-to-journo-evil-really-fcking-stupid-forrest-gump/

Quote
“I say a lot of shit on TV defending him, even over this. But honestly, I wish the motherfucker would just go away. We’re going to lose the House, lose the Senate, and lose a bunch of states because of him. All his supporters will blame us for what we have or have not done, but he hasn’t led. He wakes up in the morning, shits all over Twitter, shits all over us, shits all over his staff, then hits golf balls. Fuck him. Of course, I can’t say that in public or I’d get run out of town.”

 :heyman :umad :rejoice :trumps :crowdlaff


Pwnz

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| Attorney-client privilege is DEAD!
« Reply #16635 on: April 11, 2018, 05:37:17 PM »
Republicans like "wait, we can use weed to make money?  :crazy "

"My views on the subject have evolved  :ohyeah "

Yup. As it is legalized in several states, a lobby will grow and suddenly Republicans support it nationally.

Mandark

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| Attorney-client privilege is DEAD!
« Reply #16636 on: April 11, 2018, 05:38:44 PM »
Dronabinol, which is a pill form of THC, has been FDA approved since 1985.

Which has been way more expensive and less available than opioid painkillers.

Nola

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| Attorney-client privilege is DEAD!
« Reply #16637 on: April 11, 2018, 05:54:19 PM »
Dronabinol, which is a pill form of THC, has been FDA approved since 1985.

Which has been way more expensive and less available than opioid painkillers.
It also was severely restricted for some time and seemingly has a number of qualitative complaints that suggest the drug is in need of revision to be used for things like chronic pain more effectively and efficiently. Strains that minimize the psychoactive qualities people complain about, speed up delivery time compared to inhaled weed or opioids, while delivering as potent of pain reducing qualities as actual weed(so says the Scientific American article I just found).

I also come across quite regularly how the stringent restrictions placed on marijuana research has stunted the ability to research marijuana for more effective use. Also making it more expensive. Which seems self-evident.
« Last Edit: April 11, 2018, 06:05:06 PM by Nola »

Mandark

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| Attorney-client privilege is DEAD!
« Reply #16638 on: April 11, 2018, 06:02:50 PM »
Crazy that a guy who's platform includes abolishing ICE might win.  :doge

Sean McElwee's been doing work on that front.

CatsCatsCats

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| Attorney-client privilege is DEAD!
« Reply #16639 on: April 11, 2018, 06:17:02 PM »
You’ve activated weed cat

Also, you’ll find isolating solely thc into a pill is much less medically beneficial than a whole extract with the numerous other cannabinoids.

kingv

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| Attorney-client privilege is DEAD!
« Reply #16640 on: April 11, 2018, 06:24:59 PM »
John Boehner's proposed solution to ending opioid epidemic is to give them different drugs to get addicted to

Nah dummy, the weed is to help with the nausea from the opioids.

Optimus

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Nola

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| Attorney-client privilege is DEAD!
« Reply #16643 on: April 11, 2018, 07:54:36 PM »
the_donald censored posts


It forever amuses me that The_Donald will simultaneously cry victim about how they are being oppressed on a private company's website that has no obligation to give them a platform, while they will censor/ban the fuck out of you the moment you attempt to speak ill of the chosen one or do any of the trolling/shitposting they want free reign to do on the rest of the site.

Also, thoughts:
Russia vetoes UN Resolution to investigate Syria gas attack

wow optimus looks like they really want to get to the bottom of who did it

lol



Optimus

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| Attorney-client privilege is DEAD!
« Reply #16644 on: April 11, 2018, 08:09:55 PM »
Also, thoughts:
Russia vetoes UN Resolution to investigate Syria gas attack

wow optimus looks like they really want to get to the bottom of who did it

lol

My thoughts are you're historically ignorant. Since the USSR years Russia didn't trust UN and other international organizations. Whether the mistrust is justified or not I don't know but the definitely don't trust them.

Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| Attorney-client privilege is DEAD!
« Reply #16645 on: April 11, 2018, 08:34:01 PM »
you're the political equivalent of a fuckboy

We call that an etoilet around these parts.

Optimus

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| Attorney-client privilege is DEAD!
« Reply #16646 on: April 11, 2018, 08:35:33 PM »
you're the political equivalent of a fuckboy


When fucking Trump supporters are more anti-war and suspicious than you distinguished mentally-challenged fellows you better shut the fuck up and hide in shame, you've even lost the right to pretend you're left.

Mandark

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| Attorney-client privilege is DEAD!
« Reply #16647 on: April 11, 2018, 08:36:27 PM »
Russia supports UN investigations and inquiries in areas where they don't have a particular interest (e.g. the Sudan). Russia blocks an investigation into a client state whose removal of chemical weapons it supervised.

But probably just because of a general suspicion of international organizations.

Optimus

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| Attorney-client privilege is DEAD!
« Reply #16648 on: April 11, 2018, 08:42:34 PM »
Russia supports UN investigations and inquiries in areas where they don't have a particular interest (e.g. the Sudan). Russia blocks an investigation into a client state whose removal of chemical weapons it supervised.

But probably just because of a general suspicion of international organizations.


Russia supports UN investigations in areas that they have no particular interest in because they don't care about the outcome either way but don't trust them to to contact an objective investigation in areas they do have an interest in? No shit, Sherlock!

Optimus

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etiolate

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| Attorney-client privilege is DEAD!
« Reply #16650 on: April 11, 2018, 08:52:57 PM »
We're okay with creating states of chaos that lead to more terrorist groups. He'll, we'll even start using the help of al quaeda for it as long as we get better control over pipeline wars and get to be the primary supplier of the weapons used.

Optimus

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| Attorney-client privilege is DEAD!
« Reply #16651 on: April 11, 2018, 08:56:30 PM »
No one here is a Saudi apologist you dickless bitch

No one said you were you distinguished mentally-challenged cuck.

Optimus

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| Attorney-client privilege is DEAD!
« Reply #16652 on: April 11, 2018, 09:00:40 PM »
Strange though, some of you people sure are concerned about Syrian civilians while you have shown no such concern for the thousands dying of famine in Yemen right now. No calls for bombing Saudi Arabia and its ally the United States of America.

It's as if some people are gullible imbeciles repeating and being concerned only about what they've been spoonfed.

Optimus

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| Attorney-client privilege is DEAD!
« Reply #16653 on: April 11, 2018, 09:05:59 PM »
I guess you're not really leaving then?

I don't know, what did CNN and Washington Post told you I'm going to do? And what did they tell you the reaction to that should be?

Madrun Badrun

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| Attorney-client privilege is DEAD!
« Reply #16654 on: April 11, 2018, 09:10:57 PM »
 October 12, 2017
The Gun Show

For nearly 200 years of our nation's history, the Second Amendment was an all-but-forgotten rule about the importance of militias. But in the 1960s and 70s, a movement emerged — led by Black Panthers and a recently-repositioned NRA — that insisted owning a firearm was the right of each and every American. So began a constitutional debate that only the Supreme Court could solve. That didn't happen until 2008, when a Washington, D.C. security guard named Dick Heller made a compelling case.

https://www.npr.org/podcasts/481105292/more-perfect

agrajag

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| Attorney-client privilege is DEAD!
« Reply #16655 on: April 11, 2018, 09:12:51 PM »
Yeah, look at all these dumb fucks calling for bombing Syria in this thread....

Mupepe

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| Attorney-client privilege is DEAD!
« Reply #16656 on: April 11, 2018, 09:16:12 PM »
October 12, 2017
The Gun Show

For nearly 200 years of our nation's history, the Second Amendment was an all-but-forgotten rule about the importance of militias. But in the 1960s and 70s, a movement emerged — led by Black Panthers and a recently-repositioned NRA — that insisted owning a firearm was the right of each and every American. So began a constitutional debate that only the Supreme Court could solve. That didn't happen until 2008, when a Washington, D.C. security guard named Dick Heller made a compelling case.

https://www.npr.org/podcasts/481105292/more-perfect
Thanks for the link. I’ll take a listen. I find the blip above strange though because as early as 1886 the Supreme Court ruled that the 2nd amendment was applicable to individuals, not necessarily militias. And the argument about that application began long before that.

Optimus

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| Attorney-client privilege is DEAD!
« Reply #16657 on: April 11, 2018, 09:21:08 PM »
Well, the latest Nicholas Kristof piece said that you'd make a bunch of false equivalences, tell us we're all sheep, and then drop a tweet by a globalist establishment Democrat, all because you don't want to confront that you're an easily baitable mouthpiece for thinly veiled Russian propaganda that literally came from their military, which you somehow think makes you "open-minded" instead of just a predictable moron. Advice was to just laugh you off while you squeal about false flags and Illuminati.


Yes, but did he also tell you to react like a whiny little bitch when you hear someone being suspicious of the US media narrative he contributes to and that has supported other awesome wars too like the one in Iraq, or are you doing that all on your own?

Mandark

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| Attorney-client privilege is DEAD!
« Reply #16658 on: April 11, 2018, 09:32:10 PM »
Thanks for the link. I’ll take a listen. I find the blip above strange though because as early as 1886 the Supreme Court ruled that the 2nd amendment was applicable to individuals, not necessarily militias. And the argument about that application began long before that.

I don't think the 1886 case really did that, but I could be wrong. I only read about it years ago and I'm super fuzzy on the details at that point.

The thing is, however it would apply to individual gun ownership, the 2nd Amendment was absolutely conceived in the context of maintaining militias, and in the debate between the value of those militias vs. having a professional standing army. That question wound up getting resolved in favor of a standing army a while ago, so all the debate about the intention of the founders or early interpretations winds up being weirdly disconnected.

Cause there's a certain amount of "citizens should be armed to protect themselves from the government" rhetoric, but very, very few people are seriously trying to abolish the military and reinstate the idea of a general militia as the main line of national defense.

Optimus

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| Attorney-client privilege is DEAD!
« Reply #16659 on: April 11, 2018, 09:36:36 PM »
Do you or do you not think the Syrian government is reponsible for most of the chemical weapons attacks in Syria?


I don't know. An objective third party that can confirm something doesn't exist and there are reports that the Muslim extremists have chlorine gas too. I trust no one and I refuse to take US propaganda more seriously than Russian one especially given US government's history of planting evidence to start wars. The one thing that makes me even more suspicious than usual is the fact that Assad was already about to take the city so using chemical weapons would be counter-productive and strategically nonsensical.

Mupepe

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| Attorney-client privilege is DEAD!
« Reply #16660 on: April 11, 2018, 09:40:45 PM »
Thanks for the link. I’ll take a listen. I find the blip above strange though because as early as 1886 the Supreme Court ruled that the 2nd amendment was applicable to individuals, not necessarily militias. And the argument about that application began long before that.

I don't think the 1886 case really did that, but I could be wrong. I only read about it years ago and I'm super fuzzy on the details at that point.

The thing is, however it would apply to individual gun ownership, the 2nd Amendment was absolutely conceived in the context of maintaining militias, and in the debate between the value of those militias vs. having a professional standing army. That question wound up getting resolved in favor of a standing army a while ago, so all the debate about the intention of the founders or early interpretations winds up being weirdly disconnected.

Cause there's a certain amount of "citizens should be armed to protect themselves from the government" rhetoric, but very, very few people are seriously trying to abolish the military and reinstate the idea of a general militia as the main line of national defense.
From what I recall from the case it was that it did give individuals the right to bear arms, but also gave states the ability to limit those rights. I definitely agree with the disconnect of the original intent and I don’t think it matters as much as people say. I view it similarly to the founders original intent on things like presidential elections. Either way the meaning evolved or the context of the world (like your mention of a standing army) evolved. With all that said and acknowledging that I’m more on the right than most here regarding the 2nd amendment I do think if the 2nd amendment was truly for defense against the government they would have been more explicit in the wording when crafting the bill of rights. Other explicit rights are pretty well defined and anti federalists seemed to be keen on specifics with those rights.

And to be clear I’m not sure exactly where I stand on the subject as I am definitely open to reform and restrictions and while I don’t believe self defense (from the government or anyone else) was the intent of the 2nd amendment I do believe in it as a right of sorts.

Most gun owners freak me out by the way. Either from their weird fantasies of rebellion or heroic bullshit or their lack of training and experience. Just a note.

Mandark

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| Attorney-client privilege is DEAD!
« Reply #16661 on: April 11, 2018, 10:00:04 PM »
I think you can oppose American military adventurism while still being skeptical of PR from other nations and giving some weight to Occam's Razor.

Lord knows I spent a lot of time in 2002/3 saying "of course Saddam is awful, but that doesn't mean..."

Optimus

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| Attorney-client privilege is DEAD!
« Reply #16662 on: April 11, 2018, 10:03:13 PM »
It's not nonsensical. When you corner your enemies in a siege, they dig in as much as possible. Any attempts to take the rest of the city are suicidal. Look at how long it took to take Mosul from ISIS. Now imagine you can gas them out like rats.

The OPCW isn't trustworthy? Or the UN? Which third party do you actually trust?


I have to admit that I don't know much about how the UN operates but from what I remember from Iraq they were quite objective and professional. US media still found a way to spin their findings though to push propaganda so for Putin it's a lose-lose situation to invite them in. Aside from the fact that Russia doesn't trust them, even if they were invited all they can do is at worst confirm it was chlorine gas which the Western propaganda machine can easily spin as proof of Assad's guilt. And even if they found nothing I'm sure they could discover plenty of other stuff that could give the US an excuse since yeah, Assad is an asshole.

A very recent example of media spin is the attempted murder on the Russian spy (which btw I'm preeeetty certain Putin did in case you're wondering). In spite of the fact that the inspectors could only confirm what the substance was Western mass media throughout the world presented it as if there was proof it was of Russian origin. It's as if these fuckers are being instructed to push a specific narrative or something. One could call that kind of deceptive behavior "propaganda".

Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| Attorney-client privilege is DEAD!
« Reply #16663 on: April 11, 2018, 10:05:51 PM »

Madrun Badrun

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| Attorney-client privilege is DEAD!
« Reply #16664 on: April 11, 2018, 10:06:58 PM »
I prefer 'Make attornies get attornies'


Boredfrom

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| Attorney-client privilege is DEAD!
« Reply #16666 on: April 11, 2018, 10:47:41 PM »
I think you can oppose American military adventurism while still being skeptical of PR from other nations and giving some weight to Occam's Razor.

Lord knows I spent a lot of time in 2002/3 saying "of course Saddam is awful, but that doesn't mean..."

That would require that Optimus start to distrust most sub Reddits and web sites he likes, and there is so much critical thinking in his life to add more.

kingv

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| Attorney-client privilege is DEAD!
« Reply #16667 on: April 12, 2018, 12:00:51 AM »
You know, I really gotta respect the husband in that Greitens Missouri thing.

This dude got ultimate revenge. He’s probably going to end up forcing the guy to resign, embarrasses the dudes whole wife and family and drags him through the mud AND gets to embarrass the shit out of his ex-wife.

etiolate

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| Attorney-client privilege is DEAD!
« Reply #16668 on: April 12, 2018, 12:38:27 AM »
all they can do is at worst confirm it was chlorine gas which the Western propaganda machine can easily spin as proof of Assad's guilt
That would be a start, considering Russia is denying there was even a gas attack in douma at all. Anyway if the Syrian government didn't gas them, who did? What other parties could credibly have chlorine or sarin gas?

the rebels/terrorists

Have money and you can get weapons. Any situation like this is a sellers market for arms dealers.

Nola

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| Attorney-client privilege is DEAD!
« Reply #16669 on: April 12, 2018, 12:50:48 AM »
all they can do is at worst confirm it was chlorine gas which the Western propaganda machine can easily spin as proof of Assad's guilt
That would be a start, considering Russia is denying there was even a gas attack in douma at all. Anyway if the Syrian government didn't gas them, who did? What other parties could credibly have chlorine or sarin gas?

the rebels/terrorists

Have money and you can get weapons. Any situation like this is a sellers market for arms dealers.

And if that were the case Russia would be treating this like a top priority at the UN. Like they do when it's any investigation/resolution that will harm/shame a perceived geopolitical foe.

But they are vehemently fighting against any formal investigation.....to protect the rebels threatening the regime they back and risk an escalation with a nuclear power that views their ally as the culprit? Yeah, no.


benjipwns

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| Attorney-client privilege is DEAD!
« Reply #16670 on: April 12, 2018, 01:30:35 AM »
Anyway, I'll leave you with this:

https://twitter.com/ChrisMurphyCT/status/984076656221589504
Not surprised a Democrat denies the existence of Israel, but Jordan, Iraq and Saudi Arabia too? Wow.

benjipwns

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| Attorney-client privilege is DEAD!
« Reply #16671 on: April 12, 2018, 02:01:28 AM »
My thoughts are you're historically ignorant. Since the USSR years Russia didn't trust UN and other international organizations. Whether the mistrust is justified or not I don't know but the definitely don't trust them.
Dude, the Russians/Soviets basically invented (with the French) manipulating UN votes as proxies for establishing normal international policy, let alone actual action regarding it. Aside from a brief period during the Eisenhower administration, it comparatively took decades for the U.S. to realize they were the only ones "playing by the rules" even including their typically free vote from Taiwan and overtrust in the UK. The Soviets were never vetoing out of mistrust, they were vetoing out of stopping losing votes. (As the US/China/Russia now does.)

Even just on the security council, the Soviets issued nearly every internationally focused veto from the permanent five until the 1970s. The U.S. and should-be proxy vote Taiwan combined issued a total of one prior to 1970. Taiwan vetoed Mongolia joining, that the Soviets immediately responded to by announcing a permanent veto on any further African states until Mongolia was allowed and Taiwan reversed. The UK and France mostly vetoed in cases regarding the unwinding of their colonial positions.

The ascension of China to the fifth seat, along with the overall global governance changes with colonialism ending, was the start of a period that mandated a change in the calculus of the Security Council's positions, the Soviets (who until 1970 issued 80 vetoes, more than any country has ever issued until the next U.S. veto ties the U.S. all-time with the Soviets 1946-69 record) were no longer permanently the outlier nation on the Council, the U.S. entered that period as it more often and thus dropped 65 vetoes until 1991. (The UK, and occasionally France, backed up this switch with a combined 40 vetoes in this period versus 10 from the Soviets.)

The Soviets, and then RED CHINA, have always been the dominant power players in the UN because they were better at managing the votes in the SC and General Assembly. (Something I've always found amusing considering the respective at home governments of the various parties.) Many of the various diversity and rotation rules, along with things like picking the Secretary General were almost always the Soviets not giving a shit other than to poke the Western allies in the eye and win support from the Southern Hemisphere and using their mandated position as leveraging this.

benjipwns

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| Attorney-client privilege is DEAD!
« Reply #16672 on: April 12, 2018, 02:03:33 AM »
Ya dawg I'm really going to call for the bombing of my own country  :sabu
typical lack of principles from the "Progressives" on The Bore smh

curly

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| Attorney-client privilege is DEAD!
« Reply #16673 on: April 12, 2018, 03:16:51 AM »
My thoughts are you're historically ignorant. Since the USSR years Russia didn't trust UN and other international organizations. Whether the mistrust is justified or not I don't know but the definitely don't trust them.
Dude, the Russians/Soviets basically invented (with the French) manipulating UN votes as proxies for establishing normal international policy, let alone actual action regarding it. Aside from a brief period during the Eisenhower administration, it comparatively took decades for the U.S. to realize they were the only ones "playing by the rules" even including their typically free vote from Taiwan and overtrust in the UK. The Soviets were never vetoing out of mistrust, they were vetoing out of stopping losing votes. (As the US/China/Russia now does.)

Even just on the security council, the Soviets issued nearly every internationally focused veto from the permanent five until the 1970s. The U.S. and should-be proxy vote Taiwan combined issued a total of one prior to 1970. Taiwan vetoed Mongolia joining, that the Soviets immediately responded to by announcing a permanent veto on any further African states until Mongolia was allowed and Taiwan reversed. The UK and France mostly vetoed in cases regarding the unwinding of their colonial positions.

The ascension of China to the fifth seat, along with the overall global governance changes with colonialism ending, was the start of a period that mandated a change in the calculus of the Security Council's positions, the Soviets (who until 1970 issued 80 vetoes, more than any country has ever issued until the next U.S. veto ties the U.S. all-time with the Soviets 1946-69 record) were no longer permanently the outlier nation on the Council, the U.S. entered that period as it more often and thus dropped 65 vetoes until 1991. (The UK, and occasionally France, backed up this switch with a combined 40 vetoes in this period versus 10 from the Soviets.)

The Soviets, and then RED CHINA, have always been the dominant power players in the UN because they were better at managing the votes in the SC and General Assembly. (Something I've always found amusing considering the respective at home governments of the various parties.) Many of the various diversity and rotation rules, along with things like picking the Secretary General were almost always the Soviets not giving a shit other than to poke the Western allies in the eye and win support from the Southern Hemisphere and using their mandated position as leveraging this.

My thoughts are you're historically ignorant.

benjipwns

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| Attorney-client privilege is DEAD!
« Reply #16674 on: April 12, 2018, 04:16:08 AM »


benjipwns

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| Attorney-client privilege is DEAD!
« Reply #16676 on: April 12, 2018, 04:39:09 AM »
Quote
Karl 9 hours ago
This is just a tip of the iceberg. While dancing to the tune of person who believes in the development and protection of a Jewish nation fiddlers for eight years, Obama expanded the war on terror which includes the executive privilege of unilaterally designating anyone anywhere an "enemy combatant" as a precursor to their assassination - even teenage children. He kept the officially sanctioned myth of 9/11 going by staging the alleged death of Osama bin Laden. He endeavored to pass the TPP in lockstep with the neoliberal aspirations of the transnational capital class; Obama's global war on terror itself is merely the latest stage of neoliberal economic hegemony whereby religious and ideological differences of opposing (Muslim) nations states are now being directly dealt with via drone assassinations, regime change, and military pacification. The intended balkanization of Muslim countries continues to pick up steam while the political and financial fortunes of Putin, Obama, Trump, the Clintons, etc. continues to grow. And while the world is becoming evermore transfixed by Trump's pornographic hijinks, the deep state has been providing him with the finest horsehair brushes (befitting a stallion of his stature) by which he could paint himself into their corner.
Quote
TruthsOut 11 hours ago
I disagree, Obama followed the same 7 wars plan that was written pre 911 and started by Bush. He also put in Neocons Nuland and Powers etc to facilitate a coup in Ukraine. He had Brzezinski as an advisor. Obama was a Sorbet to take the taste off of 8 years of Bush but he carried out all the same things including NDAA.

The only thing I can give Obama credit for is the Iran deal. Perhaps a rebellion of conscience before leaving. Trump will tear that up now. Neocons will get it all, the full 7 wars carried out and maybe even a war with Russia. America will fight and pay for it
:ohhh

Optimus

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| Attorney-client privilege is DEAD!
« Reply #16677 on: April 12, 2018, 05:14:55 AM »
My thoughts are you're historically ignorant. Since the USSR years Russia didn't trust UN and other international organizations. Whether the mistrust is justified or not I don't know but the definitely don't trust them.
Dude, the Russians/Soviets basically invented (with the French) manipulating UN votes as proxies for establishing normal international policy, let alone actual action regarding it. Aside from a brief period during the Eisenhower administration, it comparatively took decades for the U.S. to realize they were the only ones "playing by the rules" even including their typically free vote from Taiwan and overtrust in the UK. The Soviets were never vetoing out of mistrust, they were vetoing out of stopping losing votes. (As the US/China/Russia now does.)

Even just on the security council, the Soviets issued nearly every internationally focused veto from the permanent five until the 1970s. The U.S. and should-be proxy vote Taiwan combined issued a total of one prior to 1970. Taiwan vetoed Mongolia joining, that the Soviets immediately responded to by announcing a permanent veto on any further African states until Mongolia was allowed and Taiwan reversed. The UK and France mostly vetoed in cases regarding the unwinding of their colonial positions.

The ascension of China to the fifth seat, along with the overall global governance changes with colonialism ending, was the start of a period that mandated a change in the calculus of the Security Council's positions, the Soviets (who until 1970 issued 80 vetoes, more than any country has ever issued until the next U.S. veto ties the U.S. all-time with the Soviets 1946-69 record) were no longer permanently the outlier nation on the Council, the U.S. entered that period as it more often and thus dropped 65 vetoes until 1991. (The UK, and occasionally France, backed up this switch with a combined 40 vetoes in this period versus 10 from the Soviets.)

The Soviets, and then RED CHINA, have always been the dominant power players in the UN because they were better at managing the votes in the SC and General Assembly. (Something I've always found amusing considering the respective at home governments of the various parties.) Many of the various diversity and rotation rules, along with things like picking the Secretary General were almost always the Soviets not giving a shit other than to poke the Western allies in the eye and win support from the Southern Hemisphere and using their mandated position as leveraging this.

Well, that's an awfully US centric view that makes us even look like victims which is ridiculous. Before the 70's US was manipulating the UN into doing shit like Suez and the Congo Operation so implying that things were even and then got uneven against us is extremely biased. More like the US was using UN to promote their interests and the Soviets were holding them back any way they could through vetoes.

agrajag

  • Senior Member
Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| Attorney-client privilege is DEAD!
« Reply #16678 on: April 12, 2018, 08:12:37 AM »
snip

So you're saying Optimus is the historically ignorant one?

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