Author Topic: US Politics Thread |OT| SAD TRUMP  (Read 6922480 times)

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Optimus

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| Bring Obama Back Already #boba
« Reply #10980 on: November 17, 2017, 07:43:40 AM »
https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2017/11/the-secret-correspondence-between-donald-trump-jr-and-wikileaks/545738/

Anyway, this shit is why I say fuck Glenn Greenwald like a Brazilian dick.

He’s been carrying water for this crook for like 5 or 6 years. While he is much better at muddying the water than other talking heads, I now understand thst he he is so consumed with his ‘Amerikkka is evil’ narrative that that will always take precedence over any other competing narrative.

I’m pretty sure he’s just still upset that gay marriage wasn’t legal in 2007 and his husband got deported and he had to move to a third world country.

Edit2: mark my words the intercept will lead with some trash about how this really wasn’t all that bad within like a week... or ignore it completely.


Assange isn't a crook, he's an admitted chaos agent. If you watched any of his interviews and lectures it's clear that he believes that capitalism must be "aided" to eat itself faster by any means necessary. I don't have it past him to directly collaborate with the Russian government either. What he wants is to turn capitalism and its institutions against themselves, aside from the fact that he has a personal vendetta against Clinton he correctly considered her far more dangerous to his plans than Trump because she represents neoliberal stability just like Obama before her. Sure the capitalist economy would be "stable" but the working class would slowly continue losing its rights, jobs, salaries, pensions, social safety net and so on just like it happened with Obama while neoliberalism would continue getting stronger. On the other hand Trump the buffoon represents neoliberal chaos, incompetence and decay, the working class will be screwed even further but it will serve Assange's plan of sabotaging capitalism.

Tbh I don't completely disagree with his methods, capitalism has overstayed its welcome and is now finishing off the planet, half measures like the Paris agreement won't do shit unless we get rid off the root of the problem, a system that only survives when there's growth, a growth that can only sustain itself by turning humanity into the virus of the planet (and yes I know it's a Matrix reference, couldn't find a better metaphor). Then again I don't agree with them either because he' playing a very dangerous game.

 :comeon

Oh liberals... 

You've never seen the big picture and never will. Keep fighting to keep your Heritage Foundation sponsored health care and we'll fight for something much better.
« Last Edit: November 17, 2017, 08:31:32 AM by Optimus »

chronovore

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| Okay friend let me explain something...
« Reply #10981 on: November 17, 2017, 09:06:47 AM »
Also there have been 260 settlements for $15 million over the last 20 years in Congress, not exclusively for sexual harassment but almost certainly including it. I'd be very surprised if more didn't come out in the next few months.


edit:

https://twitter.com/byrdinator/status/931191036138881025

Yeah, I'm going to be eating cookies when ANY congress-critter who states Franken's gotta go gets caught out with their dick in the wind. I'm gonna laugh and laugh, and encourage them to sleep in the bed they've made, and continue mixing any remaining metaphors. Let them figure out that only he without sin among them should've been casting that first stone.

I disagree that Franken's gotta go. He made a dumb decision, apologized, the victim accepted it. In the absence of further accusations, she says it's done. But I got no patience for people equating a lame, desperate pass, and a tasteless follow-up picture joke with Roy Moore's crimes being so many and well-known that he is unable to enter local malls, and he sexually abused children with a chaser of "Don't bother telling, no-one will believe you." And Moore continues to deny, victim-blame, and otherwise rally partisans to his side.

Trurl

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| Okay friend let me explain something...
« Reply #10982 on: November 17, 2017, 10:18:48 AM »
That kiss description was really gross, tho.

I don't think Franken should resign, I just want to sit quietly and feel bad.


etiolate

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| Okay friend let me explain something...
« Reply #10984 on: November 17, 2017, 12:47:34 PM »
Trollmander in Chief!



Quote
Sen. Al Franken of Minnesota asked Mr. Willett about a tweet from February 2014: “Go away, A-Rod. ‘@FoxNews: California’s transgender law allows male high schooler to make girls’ softball team . . .’ ” The reference was to Alex Rodriguez, recently dropped from the New York Yankees.

Mr. Franken wanted to know if “it demonstrates good judgment for a man in his late 40s—a sitting Supreme Court justice—to publicly demean and humiliate a 17-year-old girl on Twitter.”

Justice Willett answered: “I believe that every child is a gift. Every child is a blessing.” While conceding that “it was a ham-handed attempt at levity,” he clarified that it “was an A-Rod tweet, not a transgender tweet.”

Mr. Franken, who has dabbled in comedy himself, said: “I don’t get it. But sometimes when you don’t get a joke, it’s because it wasn’t a joke.”

He ought to know. In 2008, during Mr. Franken’s first run for the Senate, he came under fire for having pitched a “Saturday Night Live” gag about using a date-rape drug on a prominent female journalist. That was in the mid-1990s, when Mr. Franken was in his 40s. On Thursday model Leeann Tweeden accused Mr. Franken of forcibly kissing her while rehearsing a USO show in 2006, when the future senator was 55.

https://www.wsj.com/articles/thats-not-funny-your-honor-1510869003

For me, the most shocking thing of this whole scandal is the idea that Al Franken could be attracted to anyone but himself.

Nola

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| Okay friend let me explain something...
« Reply #10985 on: November 17, 2017, 12:53:00 PM »

It's one of those things that if that had been Roy Moore, and it was all Roy Moore had done, we would of gotten a couple NY Times stories, maybe some CNN coverage for a day and that would be it.

But the timing and nature of partisan media to amplify whatever they want is going to keep it lingering, and non-partisan outlets to then present that outrage as "are these legitimate grievances? Lets discuss." With additional think pieces and guest invites to contrast the argument, as opposed to the manufactured and purposed nonsense they objectively are.

Not that Franken isn't right to have an ethics investigation, or have his reputation tarnished for what he did.

FStop7

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| Okay friend let me explain something...
« Reply #10986 on: November 17, 2017, 12:54:26 PM »
Is it ever just one victim?  Ever ever?

Nola

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| Okay friend let me explain something...
« Reply #10987 on: November 17, 2017, 01:00:49 PM »
Is it ever just one victim?  Ever ever?

I'm sure there has been, wouldn't exactly shock me if another person came forward to accuse Franken though. That "lets practice the kiss" routine wouldn't surprise me if he used it before.

agrajag

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| Okay friend let me explain something...
« Reply #10988 on: November 17, 2017, 01:04:43 PM »
We have the least mature person in the country sitting in the highest office

Optimus

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| Okay friend let me explain something...
« Reply #10989 on: November 17, 2017, 01:30:33 PM »
https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/931357870024687616

https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/931360196554821632

:comeon


Trump and his distinguished mentally-challenged supporters have weaponized political correctness and liberal identity politics. They don't believe what they say and they know the others in their group don't believe or care about what they say but they use these distinguished mentally-challenged standards against their political enemies just to ruin their reputation.

zomgee

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| Okay friend let me explain something...
« Reply #10990 on: November 17, 2017, 01:31:57 PM »
Vermin Supreme 2020
rub

Mandark

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| Okay friend let me explain something...
« Reply #10991 on: November 17, 2017, 01:39:45 PM »
Optimus, what are your thoughts on sexual harassment and how we ought to deal with it generally?

Optimus

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| Okay friend let me explain something...
« Reply #10992 on: November 17, 2017, 01:59:47 PM »
Optimus, what are your thoughts on sexual harassment and how we ought to deal with it generally?


I think it's an extremely complicated issue with varying degrees of consequence and importance. I think that at this point the hysteria surrounding it is fueled by good ol' American puritanism and will lead to men and women growing further apart. I think that the humorless, pretentious and holier than thou way the so called American left is treating some these cases is fucking annoying and unrealistic. Based on their distinguished mentally-challenged standards I've been sexually assaulted too by both men and women and I should be crying in a corner now because of all that sexual assault.

Specifically, about the Terry Crews whining, I've been groped multiple times because I've vacationed in a couple of places with a lot of gay population and, well, I love dancing at clubs. I didn't give a shit, I just pretty much said back off I'm not gay and continued having fun. Acting like a pathetic little bitch who is supposedly "a victim" like Terry Crews is doing was always unthinkable to me. I didn't even really get upset about it. But then again I'm an extremely sex positive person and don't lose my shit at the first sign of sexual behavior.

seagrams hotsauce

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| Okay friend let me explain something...
« Reply #10993 on: November 17, 2017, 02:09:24 PM »
Be totally cool with random dudes grabbing your dick, brehs

Optimus

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| Okay friend let me explain something...
« Reply #10994 on: November 17, 2017, 02:15:53 PM »
Be totally cool with random dudes grabbing your dick, brehs


I was just expecting the first distinguished mentally-challenged strawman, thanks for not making me wait. I didn't say be totally cool, I said don't give a shit and don't act like a fucking traumatized victim. You want to tell him off, hell, even make a scene or punch the asshole, sure, I don't care enough to do anything like that but sure. But starting a social media circus and ruining a person's life forever for something like that while the rest of the population supports me the poor, poor victim is fucking pathetic.

seagrams hotsauce

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| Okay friend let me explain something...
« Reply #10995 on: November 17, 2017, 02:17:51 PM »
shut up you fuckin idiot

Optimus

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| Okay friend let me explain something...
« Reply #10996 on: November 17, 2017, 02:24:19 PM »
shut up you fuckin idiot


Geez, it's like you didn't read my posts at all. I was just advising people not to be whiny bitches.

Broseidon

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| Okay friend let me explain something...
« Reply #10997 on: November 17, 2017, 02:28:38 PM »
coming from one of the most ceaselessly whiny bitches on this forum :dead
bent

TakingBackSunday

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| Okay friend let me explain something...
« Reply #10998 on: November 17, 2017, 02:48:07 PM »
Keep using the word "distinguished mentally-challenged," brehs
püp

Boredfrom

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| Okay friend let me explain something...
« Reply #10999 on: November 17, 2017, 02:53:16 PM »
Optimus, what are your thoughts on sexual harassment and how we ought to deal with it generally?


I think it's an extremely complicated issue with varying degrees of consequence and importance. I think that at this point the hysteria surrounding it is fueled by good ol' American puritanism and will lead to men and women growing further apart. I think that the humorless, pretentious and holier than thou way the so called American left is treating some these cases is fucking annoying and unrealistic. Based on their distinguished mentally-challenged standards I've been sexually assaulted too by both men and women and I should be crying in a corner now because of all that sexual assault.

Specifically, about the Terry Crews whining, I've been groped multiple times because I've vacationed in a couple of places with a lot of gay population and, well, I love dancing at clubs. I didn't give a shit, I just pretty much said back off I'm not gay and continued having fun. Acting like a pathetic little bitch who is supposedly "a victim" like Terry Crews is doing was always unthinkable to me. I didn't even really get upset about it. But then again I'm an extremely sex positive person and don't lose my shit at the first sign of sexual behavior.

That is so distinguished mentally-challenged, Optimus. Of all cases you select to complain about Terry Crews?

TakingBackSunday

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| Okay friend let me explain something...
« Reply #11000 on: November 17, 2017, 02:57:54 PM »
Look, I get the word has a lot of punch to it and demonstrates your intent, but please know that there are some people that do not like seeing that word used in such a cavalier fashion.  I'm not going to bitch about it much after this, but just please be aware that it's not really a word some people are comfortable with.
püp

etiolate

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| Okay friend let me explain something...
« Reply #11001 on: November 17, 2017, 03:02:56 PM »
distinguished mentally-challenged means your development stopped. That you aren't where you should be at your age. Very apt for some of y'all.

It doesn't mean mentally handicapped. Mentally handicapped means we know why. If you're distinguished mentally-challenged, then we're still wondering why.

Human Snorenado

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| Okay friend let me explain something...
« Reply #11002 on: November 17, 2017, 03:17:54 PM »
Complain about people complaining about sexual harassment while completely ignoring power dynamics in play, brehs
yar

Optimus

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| Okay friend let me explain something...
« Reply #11003 on: November 17, 2017, 03:50:01 PM »
Complain about people complaining about sexual harassment while completely ignoring power dynamics in play, brehs


Terry Crews was already rich and accomplished, the fact that he didn't say anything from the start not only has nothing to do with power dynamics but also makes him complicit to the Hollywood problem. Because if that piece of shit groped a famous actor then you gotta wonder what he does to people who aren't famous and are trying to make a career in Hollywood. Revealing this under the protection of society's ongoing outrage against Hollywood certainly doesn't mean shit now.

Having said that I have to admit that I didn't know that the asshole groped his dick, I though it was the ass. But still, likening himself to a prisoner of war? For fucks sake Terry Crews...

Nola

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| Okay friend let me explain something...
« Reply #11004 on: November 17, 2017, 03:57:26 PM »
distinguished mentally-challenged means your development stopped. That you aren't where you should be at your age. Very apt for some of y'all.





For me, the most shocking thing of this whole scandal is the idea that Al Franken could be attracted to anyone but himself.

Sounds like you found your kindred spirit.   :playa
« Last Edit: November 17, 2017, 04:02:23 PM by Nola »

HardcoreRetro

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| Okay friend let me explain something...
« Reply #11005 on: November 17, 2017, 04:13:47 PM »
Damn, Trump don't even know the difference between Frankenstein and Frankenstein's monster.

Truly, the reason to impeach his ass has been revealed.

Rufus

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| Okay friend let me explain something...
« Reply #11006 on: November 17, 2017, 04:18:32 PM »
Terry Crews was already rich and accomplished, the fact that he didn't say anything from the start not only has nothing to do with power dynamics but also makes him complicit to the Hollywood problem.
What? The creep who grabbed his dick is an agent at WME, the talent agency Crews was signed with.

Optimus

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| Okay friend let me explain something...
« Reply #11007 on: November 17, 2017, 04:30:25 PM »
Terry Crews was already rich and accomplished, the fact that he didn't say anything from the start not only has nothing to do with power dynamics but also makes him complicit to the Hollywood problem.
What? The creep who grabbed his dick is an agent at WME, the talent agency Crews was signed with.


OK, so what? He wouldn't be able to afford the second mansion or something in case there was a problem with the agency? He couldn't even risk filing a formal complain to them at the very least discreetly to prevent other people from having far worse problems than that? All this is bullshit, he put his precious career first even though he's already accomplished and now he pretends like he's this huge victim, if he was that upset he would have done something. He's a hypocrite and complicit like the rest of Hollywood that knew about these fucks and didn't say anything.

Rufus

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| Okay friend let me explain something...
« Reply #11008 on: November 17, 2017, 04:39:58 PM »
OK, so what? He wouldn't be able to afford the second mansion or something in case there was a problem with the agency?
OK dude... I get it.

Nola

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| Okay friend let me explain something...
« Reply #11009 on: November 17, 2017, 04:52:18 PM »
Goes on about the Marxist critique of capitalism; Can't extend empathy to people in capitalistic power dynamics that are taken advantage of in the rat wheel that felt conflicted and incapacitated to speak out.

benjipwns

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| Okay friend let me explain something...
« Reply #11010 on: November 17, 2017, 04:52:58 PM »
We have the least mature person in the country sitting in the highest office
shots fired at john roberts out of nowhere

benjipwns

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| Okay friend let me explain something...
« Reply #11011 on: November 17, 2017, 04:58:15 PM »
https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/931357870024687616
Really, where do his hands go in those disgusting other pictures? We need to see exactly where they go in which disgusting other pictures that are available on what gross website. Can someone send the website that contains these 2, 3, 5 or hundred disgusting photos of exactly where his hands are going in them?!?


spoiler (click to show/hide)
[close]

curly

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| Okay friend let me explain something...
« Reply #11012 on: November 17, 2017, 04:59:00 PM »
distinguished mentally-challenged means your development stopped. That you aren't where you should be at your age. Very apt for some of y'all.

It doesn't mean mentally handicapped. Mentally handicapped means we know why. If you're distinguished mentally-challenged, then we're still wondering why.

did u kno words can have multiple meanings at the same time

sounds crazy but it's true

Optimus

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| Okay friend let me explain something...
« Reply #11013 on: November 17, 2017, 04:59:26 PM »
Goes on about the Marxist critique of capitalism; Can't extend empathy to people in capitalistic power dynamics that are taken advantage of in the rat wheel that felt conflicted and incapacitated to speak out.


Can't extend empathy to rich hypocritical fucks that pretend to be victims but weren't even willing to risk very little to protect actual victims.

benjipwns

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| Okay friend let me explain something...
« Reply #11014 on: November 17, 2017, 05:02:24 PM »
USER WAS WARNED FOR THIS POST: PROOF IN 48 HOURS OR BAN
did u kno words can have multiple meanings at the same time

sounds crazy but it's true

curly

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| Bring Obama Back Already #boba
« Reply #11015 on: November 17, 2017, 05:04:53 PM »

Oh liberals... 

You've never seen the big picture and never will. Keep fighting to keep your Heritage Foundation sponsored health care and we'll fight for something much better.

Who is "we"

The American left (including the socialist bits) is basically premised on intersectional analysis. What are the brocialist organizations?

Broseidon

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| Bring Obama Back Already #boba
« Reply #11016 on: November 17, 2017, 05:08:19 PM »
The American left (including the socialist bits)

 :thinking
bent

curly

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| Okay friend let me explain something...
« Reply #11017 on: November 17, 2017, 05:13:08 PM »
there are dozens of us

Boredfrom

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| Okay friend let me explain something...
« Reply #11018 on: November 17, 2017, 05:14:47 PM »
Goes on about the Marxist critique of capitalism; Can't extend empathy to people in capitalistic power dynamics that are taken advantage of in the rat wheel that felt conflicted and incapacitated to speak out.


Can't extend empathy to rich hypocritical fucks that pretend to be victims but weren't even willing to risk very little to protect actual victims.

While I get your point (and I actually I agree that is shitty that people are moralizing when they were the first ones to be silent to protect their careers), power dynamics is not necessary one way street or every single celebrity is a liberal preacher . A lot of powerful people where shit scare of Weisntein when you could argue they were already in way more powerful positions than him at first glance, the fact that Weisntein actually pay for a network of spies to keep tabs of everyone may tell you that is was not as simple as just Angelina Jolie being public about it.

Optimus

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| Bring Obama Back Already #boba
« Reply #11019 on: November 17, 2017, 05:59:32 PM »

Oh liberals... 

You've never seen the big picture and never will. Keep fighting to keep your Heritage Foundation sponsored health care and we'll fight for something much better.

Who is "we"

The American left (including the socialist bits) is basically premised on intersectional analysis. What are the brocialist organizations?


Intersectional "analysis" is modern authoritarian left bullshit invented by a bunch of French and German tankies, the term "brocialist" is also invented by these troglodytes. No intelligent socialist who considers himself socially libertarian subscribes to these ideas because these ideas are intellectually authoritarian and their supporters dogmatic. Also ideals transcend borders and since I was talking about Assange it should be obvious that I wasn't talking about the almost non-existent American left. I mean you could say Bernie supporters and justice democrats are the American left (which in that case would mean there's a shitload of American leftists not subscribing to intersectionality and it's distinguished mentally-challenged offsprings) but they seem to me more like working class people who are just sick and tired of capitalism and its bullshit rather than leftists consciously supporting socialism.
« Last Edit: November 17, 2017, 06:17:09 PM by Optimus »

curly

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| Okay friend let me explain something...
« Reply #11020 on: November 17, 2017, 06:25:34 PM »
I'm getting the feeling you have no contact at all with the American left. The groups that are actually working for universal healthcare like the DSA consider anti-racism and feminism as essential parts of the struggle for socialism.

Honestly, go to a DSA meeting and start talking about distinguished mentally-challenged Social Studies Warriors, see what reaction you get.

Edit: Assange is a market libertarian who worked with Trump for christ's sake, how is he a leftist at all?
« Last Edit: November 17, 2017, 06:33:27 PM by curly »

benjipwns

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| Okay friend let me explain something...
« Reply #11021 on: November 17, 2017, 06:43:47 PM »
Intersectional "analysis" is modern authoritarian left bullshit invented by a bunch of French and German tankies
far from an expert or anything but just from being next door, i'm pretty sure the concept as we know it came out of standard US academia, probably sociology and its related fields

not that the idea was new (it was at the root of the Stanton-Douglass disagreement that nutjob who PMed Himu was on about for one thing!), just that this "modern" version that takes increasingly more variables (than just gender and race) into account you're talking about came from there, which is all that intersectionality basically means

etiolate

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| Okay friend let me explain something...
« Reply #11022 on: November 17, 2017, 06:56:38 PM »
Intersectionality has an eventual conclusion that it is morally opposed to finding.

Optimus

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| Okay friend let me explain something...
« Reply #11023 on: November 17, 2017, 07:16:21 PM »
I'm getting the feeling you have no contact at all with the American left. The groups that are actually working for universal healthcare like the DSA consider anti-racism and feminism as essential parts of the struggle for socialism.

Honestly, go to a DSA meeting and start talking about distinguished mentally-challenged Social Studies Warriors, see what reaction you get.

Edit: Assange is a market libertarian who worked with Trump for christ's sake, how is he a leftist at all?

Assange is all over the place as actual political beliefs go but he does want to bring down the current neoliberal status quo and he is very socially libertarian which makes him OK in my book. I could always be wrong but imo the reason why he helped Trump has nothing to do with him actually supporting Trump. That's the impression I have of him after reading and listening some of his stuff anyway, I could be completely wrong.

As for joining the American left in its current condition, no thanks. I've been part of leftist organizations in the country I was born in so I tend to have very low opinion of these fucking pretentious hippies on the American left many of whom have fallen in the neoliberal trap of obsession with identity politics and corporate media clickbait and drama. Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying that all of them are like that but in my experience every time I interacted with these people it has been a disaster. Honestly it's shocking how fucking dumb all political groups are in this country or how obsessed they all are with identity politics and sex.
« Last Edit: November 17, 2017, 07:36:07 PM by Optimus »

benjipwns

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| Okay friend let me explain something...
« Reply #11024 on: November 17, 2017, 07:17:06 PM »


 :rofl

Optimus

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| Okay friend let me explain something...
« Reply #11025 on: November 17, 2017, 07:31:49 PM »
Intersectional "analysis" is modern authoritarian left bullshit invented by a bunch of French and German tankies
far from an expert or anything but just from being next door, i'm pretty sure the concept as we know it came out of standard US academia, probably sociology and its related fields

not that the idea was new (it was at the root of the Stanton-Douglass disagreement that nutjob who PMed Himu was on about for one thing!), just that this "modern" version that takes increasingly more variables (than just gender and race) into account you're talking about came from there, which is all that intersectionality basically means


I spend a lot of time around 2011-2012 trying to track this monstrosity and its roots. The best conclusion I reached is that it was a bunch of disgraced French and German Stalinists that made up with shit out of thin air after their daddy Stalin was proven to be a fucking butcher. I stopped caring after that and I forgot most of the stuff I read so sure, you could be right about the modern version, I don't know.

benjipwns

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| Okay friend let me explain something...
« Reply #11026 on: November 17, 2017, 07:44:30 PM »
But intersectionality doesn't have anything inherent to do with socialism/communism or even Stalin's reign of terror. At its base level all intersectionality is, is a venn diagram. You put all your component variables as circles and the center, the intersection, of all those identifies you.

Where it connects with the Left or socialism or whatever is that they can use it to show that many disadvantaged groups fall together and thus have shared interests at a level above mere traditional Marxist class. And often you can fall into what is their giant venn diagram via your class, gender identity, race, etc. That you aren't any single component, but you share many of them.

It's certainly abused and used stupidly by various groups (like the progressive stack or "oppression olympics" where people try to count up how often they fall in), but what isn't?

It's an old idea, certain religions, women and blacks were allied in the United States in the 18th and 19th Century as they were all oppressed by the system. They had a shared intersectional interest.

I can't say without looking what revived it and tried to outline it as an academic theory, I assume it was in the 1970's in the social sciences mostly because that's where seemingly everything that describes things stupidly comes from.

Mandark will make sure to correct me where I'm wrong as part of his project to make me a better person. Unless he's a coward. (Or anyone else, like many I really looked it up in recent decades when it went semi-mainstream in academia, which was still a few years before it hopped onto Jezebel and elsewhere. I'm sure Mumei posted a few hundred books you could read about it.)

Optimus

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| Okay friend let me explain something...
« Reply #11027 on: November 17, 2017, 08:17:24 PM »
But intersectionality doesn't have anything inherent to do with socialism/communism or even Stalin's reign of terror. At its base level all intersectionality is, is a venn diagram. You put all your component variables as circles and the center, the intersection, of all those identifies you.

Where it connects with the Left or socialism or whatever is that they can use it to show that many disadvantaged groups fall together and thus have shared interests at a level above mere traditional Marxist class. And often you can fall into what is their giant venn diagram via your class, gender identity, race, etc. That you aren't any single component, but you share many of them.

It's certainly abused and used stupidly by various groups (like the progressive stack or "oppression olympics" where people try to count up how often they fall in), but what isn't?

It's an old idea, certain religions, women and blacks were allied in the United States in the 18th and 19th Century as they were all oppressed by the system. They had a shared intersectional interest.

I can't say without looking what revived it and tried to outline it as an academic theory, I assume it was in the 1970's in the social sciences mostly because that's where seemingly everything that describes things stupidly comes from.

Mandark will make sure to correct me where I'm wrong as part of his project to make me a better person. Unless he's a coward. (Or anyone else, like many I really looked it up in recent decades when it went semi-mainstream in academia, which was still a few years before it hopped onto Jezebel and elsewhere. I'm sure Mumei posted a few hundred books you could read about it.)


As far as I'm aware it has always been used for oppression slash victimhood olympics since its inception both in academia and the groups that support it, an ideology so obsessed mainly with the traits you were born with will always reduce itself to that. I also frown at the comparison between this shit and actual civil right movements. Civil rights movements and their leaders wanted society to ignore the aforementioned traits and treat everyone the same using the same standards. Intersectionality wants to shine a giant spotlight on these traits and scream about them while self-congratulating itself on how tolerant it is because it's so obsessed with these fucking insignificant differences. It's that spotlight that has created the toxic environment we enjoy today.
« Last Edit: November 17, 2017, 08:22:52 PM by Optimus »

Mandark

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| Okay friend let me explain something...
« Reply #11028 on: November 17, 2017, 08:22:14 PM »
It's an old idea, certain religions, women and blacks were allied in the United States in the 18th and 19th Century as they were all oppressed by the system. They had a shared intersectional interest.

This. You don't really need to trace its academic roots. People's intuitive understanding of their own place in society plus the necessities of coalition-building are the driving forces.


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Bonus trivia example: Populist-Republican fusion in North Carolina in the 1890's, where black voters and indebted white farmers temporarily broke the Democratic post-Reconstruction monopoly.
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etiolate

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| Okay friend let me explain something...
« Reply #11029 on: November 17, 2017, 08:38:04 PM »
Peterson did a whole speech on the modern mixing of post-modernist ideas, marxism and intersectionalism.



It's two hours, but I think it's worth it. For him, the Marxism is in post-modernistic view of the world as oppressed and oppressor, with oppressed being good and oppressor being bad, but the true Marxist nature being hatred for the privileged rather than true empathy for the suffering. You identify with more oppressed groups then you rise up in "good".  However, the more factors you look at the closer you come to the old realization of the individual.

Intersectionality doesn't mean voting blocks. It's a more detailed victim point system that's natural end is the antithesis of how it began.


curly

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| Okay friend let me explain something...
« Reply #11030 on: November 17, 2017, 09:12:42 PM »


It's two hours, but I think it's worth it.
:donot
Quote
the true Marxist nature being hatred for the privileged rather than true empathy for the suffering.

 :dunno
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You identify with more oppressed groups then you rise up in "good".  However, the more factors you look at the closer you come to the old realization of the individual.
:confused
Quote
Intersectionality doesn't mean voting blocks. It's a more detailed victim point system that's natural end is the antithesis of how it began.
:insane

etiolate

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| Okay friend let me explain something...
« Reply #11031 on: November 17, 2017, 09:16:15 PM »
See that is a distinguished mentally-challenged fellow.

Optimus

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| Okay friend let me explain something...
« Reply #11032 on: November 17, 2017, 09:33:15 PM »
Peterson did a whole speech on the modern mixing of post-modernist ideas, marxism and intersectionalism.



It's two hours, but I think it's worth it. For him, the Marxism is in post-modernistic view of the world as oppressed and oppressor, with oppressed being good and oppressor being bad, but the true Marxist nature being hatred for the privileged rather than true empathy for the suffering. You identify with more oppressed groups then you rise up in "good".  However, the more factors you look at the closer you come to the old realization of the individual.

Intersectionality doesn't mean voting blocks. It's a more detailed victim point system that's natural end is the antithesis of how it began.

I'm at the 10 min mark and already his argument about hierarchies of competence is complete and utter bullshit. Social mobility stats prove that these are hierarchies in capitalism are mainly dependent on social status of the parents not competence.

seagrams hotsauce

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| Okay friend let me explain something...
« Reply #11033 on: November 17, 2017, 09:34:21 PM »
can you two dipshits go fuck each other in private please

Optimus

  • Lieutenant colonel, 26th Hate Machine battalion
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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| Okay friend let me explain something...
« Reply #11034 on: November 17, 2017, 09:38:41 PM »
can you two dipshit go fuck each other in private please


Hey whiny dipshit, if you want to protect yourself from different opinions go to resetera,  I bet you enjoy it there more anyway. Now go fuck yourself and stop spamming these useless fucking posts.

etiolate

  • Senior Member
Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| Okay friend let me explain something...
« Reply #11035 on: November 17, 2017, 09:43:18 PM »
Peterson did a whole speech on the modern mixing of post-modernist ideas, marxism and intersectionalism.



It's two hours, but I think it's worth it. For him, the Marxism is in post-modernistic view of the world as oppressed and oppressor, with oppressed being good and oppressor being bad, but the true Marxist nature being hatred for the privileged rather than true empathy for the suffering. You identify with more oppressed groups then you rise up in "good".  However, the more factors you look at the closer you come to the old realization of the individual.

Intersectionality doesn't mean voting blocks. It's a more detailed victim point system that's natural end is the antithesis of how it began.

I'm at the 10 min mark and already his argument about hierarchies of competence is complete and utter bullshit. Social mobility stats prove that these are hierarchies in capitalism are mainly dependent on social status of the parents not competence.

Pretty sure he's basing it on not just humans but other species as well. You can't pretend exceptional people don't exist. That doesn't mean that systems can't corrupt and corrupt people not rise, but competence does play a major factor.

It's not like all these millionaire pro athletes come from established wealthy families.

Broseidon

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| Okay friend let me explain something...
« Reply #11036 on: November 17, 2017, 09:43:43 PM »
I for one am terrified of my worldview being shattered by the impenetrable arguments of the intellectual titans Optimus and etoilet.
bent

CatsCatsCats

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| Okay friend let me explain something...
« Reply #11037 on: November 17, 2017, 09:45:29 PM »
Established wealthy collegiate sports programs tho

benjipwns

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| Okay friend let me explain something...
« Reply #11038 on: November 17, 2017, 09:57:33 PM »
As far as I'm aware it has always been used for oppression slash victimhood olympics since its inception both in academia and the groups that support it....I also frown at the comparison between this shit and actual civil right movements. Civil rights movements and their leaders wanted society to ignore the aforementioned traits and treat everyone the same using the same standards.
Have you studied any civil rights movements? They always have a wing that goes beyond mere "legal equality" or what have you to a form of reparations to various forms of extremism. Just to pick an example because it ties into my prior one. Most white abolitionists were pushing the idea of colonization in Africa as the post-slavery solution which most free blacks and slaves had no interest in. Many did want an equal standing as existed in a few select places in the U.S. Others wanted that 40 acres and a mule. And there large components of the black abolitionist movement that agreed that blacks and whites couldn't live together without it descending into slavery again, so they pushed for their own carve out of somewhere in the U.S. (Ironically, one of the Utopian communities set up for this purpose relied on race-based chattel slavery with no time table on release before collapsing.) The person who believes in the development and protection of a Jewish nation movements had all kinds of disagreements regarding what was an acceptable Jewish land, land in the Palestine mandate wasn't the original majority position.

The mid-20th Century civil rights movement also had wings and factions that looked beyond mere "legal equality" like the Voting Rights Act to more types of "leveling" from the provisions of the CRA that Rand Paul opposes unlike Roy Moore apparently, to affirmative action, to reparations a discussion that still sends people into a tizzy even though it's never come close and Jesse fucking Jackson called it a dead end in the 1980s. That doesn't even count one of my favorites like Khalid Abdul Muhammad:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xH3Sg1IfoWU
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aUOmengXuQM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CyHxQqyg0IM
he's really the best, rip in peaces

Quote
Intersectionality wants to shine a giant spotlight on these traits and scream about them while self-congratulating itself on how tolerant it is because it's so obsessed with these fucking insignificant differences.
You can argue the social studies warriors do this and use intersectionality  as part of this and the whole host of other things you and etoliate and anyone else may complain about. But intersectionality itself is a pretty simple basic theory that really shouldn't raise much if any hackles in and of itself. It's just the idea that people of different traits can find similar and overlapping interests. It doesn't have to be oppression or even tolerance related. It can be something as simple as noting that tall black men and lesbians both show an overlapping interest in professional basketball that other groups may not.

benjipwns

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| Okay friend let me explain something...
« Reply #11039 on: November 17, 2017, 10:19:11 PM »
Peterson did a whole speech on the modern mixing of post-modernist ideas, marxism and intersectionalism.



It's two hours, but I think it's worth it.
Two hours from a first world neoliberal reactionary? Or a true globally respected intellectual and regular PressTV expert exposing it all in just 16 minutes including a devastating rebuttal to a non-believer?!?



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