Author Topic: US Politics Thread |OT| SAD TRUMP  (Read 7048638 times)

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kingv

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Re: U.S. Politics |OT| Jeffrey Epstein? I don't know her.
« Reply #37440 on: July 15, 2019, 03:07:32 AM »
Good point.


BIONIC

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Margs

Cauliflower Of Love

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Re: U.S. Politics |OT| Jeffrey Epstein? I don't know her.
« Reply #37443 on: July 15, 2019, 07:40:25 AM »
https://mobile.twitter.com/thehill/status/1150571952442097666

:rofl

These people getting played by mitch mcconnell are the people some people think will be able to go up against trump. lol

Dickie Dee

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Re: U.S. Politics |OT| Jeffrey Epstein? I don't know her.
« Reply #37444 on: July 15, 2019, 08:23:30 AM »
Not surprising, but Trump is doubling down on attacking Omar. Using Israel as shield
___

Occam

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Re: U.S. Politics |OT| Jeffrey Epstein? I don't know her.
« Reply #37445 on: July 15, 2019, 08:25:00 AM »
Getting rid of the people who want to take it away from millions might help with the issue. Impeachment would play an important role in the process.

lol no it wouldn't

I was thinking about their chances in the upcoming presidential election. A demonstration that they are not ok with Trump's blatant disregard for the law and the constitution. A show of backbone, even if just symbolic would go a long way. Additionally, the process should keep Trump occupied for months and maybe prevent him from doing some of the damage he otherwise would.
504

Propagandhim

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Re: U.S. Politics |OT| Jeffrey Epstein? I don't know her.
« Reply #37446 on: July 15, 2019, 08:34:09 AM »
Epstein bail hearing at 10 est  :rejoice


Bail decision postponed until Thurs

 :shaq2
« Last Edit: July 15, 2019, 11:29:03 AM by Propagandhim »

ToxicAdam

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Re: U.S. Politics |OT| Jeffrey Epstein? I don't know her.
« Reply #37447 on: July 15, 2019, 09:06:22 AM »
A show of backbone, even if just symbolic would go a long way.

Only to people that weren't going to vote for Trump anyways.

Political theater does nothing for the average person that is still on the fence. If anything it might make them more apathetic.




Mandark

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Re: U.S. Politics |OT| Jeffrey Epstein? I don't know her.
« Reply #37448 on: July 15, 2019, 11:24:31 AM »
I was thinking about their chances in the upcoming presidential election. A demonstration that they are not ok with Trump's blatant disregard for the law and the constitution. A show of backbone, even if just symbolic would go a long way. Additionally, the process should keep Trump occupied for months and maybe prevent him from doing some of the damage he otherwise would.

so we've gone from "people voted for dems specifically to impeach trump" to you speculating on how a symbolic failure might resonate with voters based on your own gut feeling

aight

Tripon

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Occam

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Re: U.S. Politics |OT| Jeffrey Epstein? I don't know her.
« Reply #37450 on: July 15, 2019, 12:00:25 PM »
so we've gone from "people voted for dems specifically to impeach trump" to you speculating on how a symbolic failure might resonate with voters based on your own gut feeling

aight

Yes, the conversation moved on. While I don't know how many people also had impeachment on their minds when they voted D last November (I perhaps incorrectly assumed it played a major role), there are now more Americans in favor of impeachment than against. That's a fact. And impeachment makes sense, even if the Senate won't convict Trump.

This article from six weeks ago explains it nicely.
https://www.salon.com/2019/05/31/why-are-the-democrats-so-reluctant-to-impeach-trump-theres-a-theory-about-that/
504

Mandark

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Re: U.S. Politics |OT| Jeffrey Epstein? I don't know her.
« Reply #37451 on: July 15, 2019, 12:58:24 PM »

Dickie Dee

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Re: U.S. Politics |OT| Jeffrey Epstein? I don't know her.
« Reply #37452 on: July 15, 2019, 12:59:47 PM »
Trump live giving statements, tripling down

"If they don't like it here, they can leave."

 They hate our country.  They hate our country.  They hate our country.  They hate our country.  They hate our country.  They hate our country.  They hate our country.  They hate our country.  They hate our country.  They hate our country.  They hate our country.  They hate our country.  They hate our country.  They hate our country.  They hate our country.  They hate our country.  They hate our country.  They hate our country.

Lol, doesn't concern him that white nationalists agree with him.
___

Great Rumbler

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Re: U.S. Politics |OT| Jeffrey Epstein? I don't know her.
« Reply #37453 on: July 15, 2019, 01:09:21 PM »
Graham has really been off the rails since his husband John McCain died.
dog

Mandark

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Re: U.S. Politics |OT| Jeffrey Epstein? I don't know her.
« Reply #37454 on: July 15, 2019, 01:14:59 PM »
Every white person who talks about how important it is to not sling accusations of racism around carelessly will then turn around and accuse a nonwhite person of being racist, reverse-racist, or antisemitic based on the flimsiest shit. Every single one.


edit: Favorite real life example is someone who defended a mutual acquaintance who regularly used racial slurs because "you know he's just joking with that shit" but was fucking adamant that a local black radio host was racist because they kept criticizing Kirk Cousins. :doge

ToxicAdam

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Re: U.S. Politics |OT| Jeffrey Epstein? I don't know her.
« Reply #37455 on: July 15, 2019, 01:20:37 PM »
I think it's larger than that.

Certain people will tell you there is a "culture of victimhood", but without missing a beat, will tell you why they are being unfairly targeted in some way (be it because they are white, christian, middle class or whatever).


It's like they resent groups for having access to some secret superpower they want to have.


kingv

  • Senior Member
Re: U.S. Politics |OT| Jeffrey Epstein? I don't know her.
« Reply #37456 on: July 15, 2019, 01:24:02 PM »
What the Republicans realized that Democrats didn’t is that it’s better electorally to have 25% of the population love you than it is to have 55% of the population barely prefer you.

Nintex

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🤴

Tasty

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Re: U.S. Politics |OT| Jeffrey Epstein? I don't know her.
« Reply #37458 on: July 15, 2019, 01:26:59 PM »
What the Republicans realized that Democrats didn’t is that it’s better electorally to have 25% of the population love you than it is to have 55% of the population barely prefer you.

:thinking

This tracks.

Mandark

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Re: U.S. Politics |OT| Jeffrey Epstein? I don't know her.
« Reply #37459 on: July 15, 2019, 01:32:14 PM »
It only works* for the GOP thanks to factors the Dems can't easily replicate (ie Senate malapportionment, the rural/urban divide, aggressive gerrymandering).

spoiler (click to show/hide)
*Also the GOP got crushed in the last election we had and the "25% of the population loves you" formula lost them a Senate seat in Alabama of all places, so.
[close]

Mandark

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Re: U.S. Politics |OT| Jeffrey Epstein? I don't know her.
« Reply #37460 on: July 15, 2019, 01:33:36 PM »
I think it's larger than that.

Certain people will tell you there is a "culture of victimhood", but without missing a beat, will tell you why they are being unfairly targeted in some way (be it because they are white, christian, middle class or whatever).


It's like they resent groups for having access to some secret superpower they want to have.

"When you're accustomed to privilege, equality feels like oppression."

It's a cliche among the social justice set but it's true and explains a lot.

Nintex

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Re: U.S. Politics |OT| Jeffrey Epstein? I don't know her.
« Reply #37461 on: July 15, 2019, 01:39:37 PM »
I guess he didn't pivot  :lol

https://twitter.com/FDRLST/status/1149793303149199360

Quote
I don’t think we are far from that. And I see a President Trump who is settling into a new identity, one that is more normal than any of us could have expected from him.

🤴

kingv

  • Senior Member
Re: U.S. Politics |OT| Jeffrey Epstein? I don't know her.
« Reply #37462 on: July 15, 2019, 01:42:19 PM »
It only works* for the GOP thanks to factors the Dems can't easily replicate (ie Senate malapportionment, the rural/urban divide, aggressive gerrymandering).

spoiler (click to show/hide)
*Also the GOP got crushed in the last election we had and the "25% of the population loves you" formula lost them a Senate seat in Alabama of all places, so.
[close]

There is zero question that the Gingrichization of the Republican Party has been incredibly successful for them. Going hard in the paint for gun rights, lower taxes, and fighting brown people has won them control of the house for like 2/3 of elections since 1994.

You can say “oh Gerrymandering” but what enabled Gerrymandering? => Winning elections

What enabled the collapse of the democrats in 2010? Centrist policies that tried to split the baby but nobody on any side really loved.

Sure they won in 2018... but relying on your opponents to be dog shit to win elections is not a winning plan. If Marco Rubio or Hillary was President, Dems would have lost the House and lost seats in the Senate.

Edit: *more seats*

Joe Molotov

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Re: U.S. Politics |OT| Jeffrey Epstein? I don't know her.
« Reply #37463 on: July 15, 2019, 02:13:52 PM »
what are the odds nintex regularly reads the federalist

I'm sure he reads any dank memes they tweet out.
©@©™

ToxicAdam

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Re: U.S. Politics |OT| Jeffrey Epstein? I don't know her.
« Reply #37464 on: July 15, 2019, 02:14:56 PM »
I can't speak for the whole country, but in the Rust Belt, as people fled the industrialized cities that were falling apart (75-83), they were all run by Democrats (for decades).  At the same time, you had a Congress that was also controlled by the Democrats for 40 years (roughly 1950-1994) during that time.

These people didn't forget and when they moved out to the suburbs or rural communities they became more conservative or were more easily plied by conservative ideals.

So, I think it's less about gerrymandering (although that's still at play on the edges) and more about suburbia attracting similar types of people that were being driven away from these centralized cities for various reasons (real and imagined).


Occam

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Re: U.S. Politics |OT| Jeffrey Epstein? I don't know her.
« Reply #37465 on: July 15, 2019, 02:35:42 PM »
there are now more Americans in favor of impeachment than against. That's a fact.

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/meet-the-press/support-impeachment-falls-2020-heats-n1029656

And according to a Fox poll from a few weeks it was at 50%, which is the highest ever for any US president.
Before Nixon's impeachment proceedings started, public support for impeachment was at 19%, and it steadily grew as the process went on. I don't see why it would be different for Trump.
Be that as it may, impeachment is the right thing to do. Not doing it because it might backfire (which I very much doubt; that's Republican propaganda) is the spineless thing to do.
504

Steve Contra

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Re: U.S. Politics |OT| Jeffrey Epstein? I don't know her.
« Reply #37466 on: July 15, 2019, 02:46:17 PM »
I think it's larger than that.

Certain people will tell you there is a "culture of victimhood", but without missing a beat, will tell you why they are being unfairly targeted in some way (be it because they are white, christian, middle class or whatever).


It's like they resent groups for having access to some secret superpower they want to have.
vin

Mandark

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Re: U.S. Politics |OT| Jeffrey Epstein? I don't know her.
« Reply #37467 on: July 15, 2019, 03:10:31 PM »
I can't speak for the whole country, but in the Rust Belt, as people fled the industrialized cities that were falling apart (75-83), they were all run by Democrats (for decades).  At the same time, you had a Congress that was also controlled by the Democrats for 40 years (roughly 1950-1994) during that time.

These people didn't forget and when they moved out to the suburbs or rural communities they became more conservative or were more easily plied by conservative ideals.

So, I think it's less about gerrymandering (although that's still at play on the edges) and more about suburbia attracting similar types of people that were being driven away from these centralized cities for various reasons (real and imagined).

I realize that you're invested in the idea of a nobler GOP that existed before the Fall, but what you're talking about was a million percent about race.

curly

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Re: U.S. Politics |OT| Jeffrey Epstein? I don't know her.
« Reply #37468 on: July 15, 2019, 03:16:56 PM »
It only works* for the GOP thanks to factors the Dems can't easily replicate (ie Senate malapportionment, the rural/urban divide, aggressive gerrymandering).

spoiler (click to show/hide)
*Also the GOP got crushed in the last election we had and the "25% of the population loves you" formula lost them a Senate seat in Alabama of all places, so.
[close]

Hey it also works for democratic social democrats running for office in Queens

curly

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Re: U.S. Politics |OT| Jeffrey Epstein? I don't know her.
« Reply #37469 on: July 15, 2019, 03:19:42 PM »

agrajag

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Re: U.S. Politics |OT| Jeffrey Epstein? I don't know her.
« Reply #37470 on: July 15, 2019, 03:28:37 PM »
What the Republicans realized that Democrats didn’t is that it’s better electorally to have 25% of the population love you than it is to have 55% of the population barely prefer you.

lol they talked about this very thing on the Seder show a couple of days ago. It's the depth of their electorate, not the breadth. Republicans will show up to vote every time, while registered D's, while more numerous are typically more apathetic and sit midterms and local elections out.

curly

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Re: U.S. Politics |OT| Jeffrey Epstein? I don't know her.
« Reply #37471 on: July 15, 2019, 03:47:38 PM »
https://www.cnn.com/2019/07/13/media/tnr-pete-buttigieg-op-ed-league-of-conservation/

Quote
New York (CNN Business)The League of Conservation Voters is cutting ties with an upcoming forum on climate change after its co-host for the event, The New Republic, published an "offensive" article about Democratic presidential candidate Pete Buttigieg.

Quote
Editor Chris Lehmann told CNN Business on Friday that "The New Republic recognizes that this post crossed a line, and while it was largely intended as satire, it was inappropriate and invasive." The post was later taken down.


I thought this was an interesting contrary opinion on the whole brouhaha

Quote
But there I was, virtually surrounded by people and news outlets who seemed extremely convinced that an act of gross homophobia had taken place, when it never would have occurred to me to categorize it as such. Now after the fact, I remain unconvinced that author and critic Dale Peck’s critique of presidential candidate Pete Buttigieg, “My Mayor Pete Problem,” originally published (and then unpublished) by The New Republic, was homophobic in any definition of the word that I have ever experienced, despite having experienced the exact sort of gay-on-gay bitchery and contempt for the way I live my life as a gay man that Peck displays in his essay. NBC, The Hollywood Reporter, our sister site Gizmodo, on top of legions of tweeters all deemed it “homophobic” without much support, as if it was so self-evidently bigoted that they didn’t need to waste their time explaining. Or maybe it was as if they believed the definition of “homophobic” to be “being mean to a gay person.”
These arguments largely overlooked the history baked into Peck’s contemporary critique. Though he used language and techniques that were too outrageous for their own good, Peck spoke to a topic that has preoccupied gay people for decades: How we present ourselves in public, and how that relates to our status within the larger, straight-dominated world. Is it cheating to iron out queerness for the sake of straights or is it merely savvy? To fail to examine Buttigieg through this lens of authenticity is to willfully fail to examine Buttigieg as a candidate.

https://jezebel.com/define-homophobic-1836367531

as a het I will refrain from judgement

Mandark

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Re: U.S. Politics |OT| Jeffrey Epstein? I don't know her.
« Reply #37472 on: July 15, 2019, 03:48:13 PM »
It only works* for the GOP thanks to factors the Dems can't easily replicate (ie Senate malapportionment, the rural/urban divide, aggressive gerrymandering).

spoiler (click to show/hide)
*Also the GOP got crushed in the last election we had and the "25% of the population loves you" formula lost them a Senate seat in Alabama of all places, so.
[close]

There is zero question that the Gingrichization of the Republican Party has been incredibly successful for them. Going hard in the paint for gun rights, lower taxes, and fighting brown people has won them control of the house for like 2/3 of elections since 1994.

You can say “oh Gerrymandering” but what enabled Gerrymandering? => Winning elections

What enabled the collapse of the democrats in 2010? Centrist policies that tried to split the baby but nobody on any side really loved.

Sure they won in 2018... but relying on your opponents to be dog shit to win elections is not a winning plan. If Marco Rubio or Hillary was President, Dems would have lost the House and lost seats in the Senate.

Edit: *more seats*

"If they did what I want them to do they'd also win elections."

It's nice to believe but it's not true. Minority rule only works if you've got some mechanism to translate <50% of the votes into a win. Those tools aren't readily available for Dems because of the current asymmetric nature of American politics.

Kara

  • It was all going to be very admirable and noble and it would show us - philosophically - what it means to be human.
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Re: U.S. Politics |OT| Jeffrey Epstein? I don't know her.
« Reply #37473 on: July 15, 2019, 03:49:46 PM »
what are the odds nintex regularly reads the federalist

Gateway Pundit got linked the other day itt and no one said anything. :goty

Mandark

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Re: U.S. Politics |OT| Jeffrey Epstein? I don't know her.
« Reply #37474 on: July 15, 2019, 03:59:15 PM »
Gateway Pundit got linked the other day itt and no one said anything. :goty

you're doing that thing again kara

Kara

  • It was all going to be very admirable and noble and it would show us - philosophically - what it means to be human.
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Re: U.S. Politics |OT| Jeffrey Epstein? I don't know her.
« Reply #37475 on: July 15, 2019, 04:04:53 PM »
Call me a snitch at least!

Mandark

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Re: U.S. Politics |OT| Jeffrey Epstein? I don't know her.
« Reply #37476 on: July 15, 2019, 04:11:35 PM »
I mean where you see a bad post and then later on mildly scold everyone for having ignored it and let it slide.

And yeah it would be cool if we were dedicated to fighting the good fight, but out of all the Bore's faults can we really be accused of not engaging enough with dumb shitposts? Multiple users were giving fucking Assimilate 32 bars on the regular. Mollys Fruity Loops is the poor man's hungrynoob, no1curr, let us sit one out. We're tired.

Kara

  • It was all going to be very admirable and noble and it would show us - philosophically - what it means to be human.
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Re: U.S. Politics |OT| Jeffrey Epstein? I don't know her.
« Reply #37477 on: July 15, 2019, 04:16:15 PM »
I mean where you see a bad post and then later on mildly scold everyone for having ignored it and let it slide.

And yeah it would be cool if we were dedicated to fighting the good fight, but out of all the Bore's faults can we really be accused of not engaging enough with dumb shitposts? Multiple users were giving fucking Assimilate 32 bars on the regular. Mollys Fruity Loops is the poor man's hungrynoob, no1curr, let us sit one out. We're tired.

OK, dad. :fbm

spoiler (click to show/hide)
I was more disappointed in the lack of fuckery than a lack of scolding, but that's obviously not conveyed in my post very well.
[close]


curly

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ToxicAdam

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Re: U.S. Politics |OT| Jeffrey Epstein? I don't know her.
« Reply #37480 on: July 15, 2019, 04:51:57 PM »

I realize that you're invested in the idea of a nobler GOP that existed before the Fall, but what you're talking about was a million percent about race.

My comments had nothing to do with the GOP or trying to present them in a better light. It was about how white flight (and the rise of surburbia) and failed Democrat rule for many decades in major cities led to the current paradigm we have today.  At least among those of a certain age and background.

There was a reason why Clinton had to run as a "new Democrat" in 1992. There was a reason why 1994 happened in Congress. It was a collective of middle-aged people, from middle America,  that watched their towns and cities from 1960-1983 fall apart and blamed the party that ran the show (both locally and nationally).

Yes, race comes into play because race infects every issue in America. But to diminish what happened during this time period and how it effected the current state of politics is being disingenuous. But I understand why you do it.


curly

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Mandark

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Re: U.S. Politics |OT| Jeffrey Epstein? I don't know her.
« Reply #37482 on: July 15, 2019, 04:59:43 PM »

agrajag

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Re: U.S. Politics |OT| Jeffrey Epstein? I don't know her.
« Reply #37483 on: July 15, 2019, 05:08:07 PM »
https://twitter.com/reidepstein/status/1150868129347768325

:thinking :thinking

I love my premiums and deductibles!

spoiler (click to show/hide)
jk I've been uninsured for a while now
[close]

curly

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Re: U.S. Politics |OT| Jeffrey Epstein? I don't know her.
« Reply #37484 on: July 15, 2019, 05:22:24 PM »
My pitch for an article for fivethirtyeight.com: did progressives luck out that the standard bearer for centrist democrats is an incompetent campaigner?

Nintex

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🤴

Tripon

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Re: U.S. Politics |OT| Jeffrey Epstein? I don't know her.
« Reply #37486 on: July 15, 2019, 05:33:37 PM »
My pitch for an article for fivethirtyeight.com: did progressives luck out that the standard bearer for centrist democrats is an incompetent campaigner?

https://twitter.com/TOMEGUY/status/1148920950718644229

Boredfrom

  • Senior Member
Re: U.S. Politics |OT| Jeffrey Epstein? I don't know her.
« Reply #37487 on: July 15, 2019, 05:45:30 PM »
Feels like Trump is genuinely throwing a fit.

kingv

  • Senior Member
Re: U.S. Politics |OT| Jeffrey Epstein? I don't know her.
« Reply #37488 on: July 15, 2019, 06:06:14 PM »
It only works* for the GOP thanks to factors the Dems can't easily replicate (ie Senate malapportionment, the rural/urban divide, aggressive gerrymandering).

spoiler (click to show/hide)
*Also the GOP got crushed in the last election we had and the "25% of the population loves you" formula lost them a Senate seat in Alabama of all places, so.
[close]

There is zero question that the Gingrichization of the Republican Party has been incredibly successful for them. Going hard in the paint for gun rights, lower taxes, and fighting brown people has won them control of the house for like 2/3 of elections since 1994.

You can say “oh Gerrymandering” but what enabled Gerrymandering? => Winning elections

What enabled the collapse of the democrats in 2010? Centrist policies that tried to split the baby but nobody on any side really loved.

Sure they won in 2018... but relying on your opponents to be dog shit to win elections is not a winning plan. If Marco Rubio or Hillary was President, Dems would have lost the House and lost seats in the Senate.

Edit: *more seats*

"If they did what I want them to do they'd also win elections."

It's nice to believe but it's not true. Minority rule only works if you've got some mechanism to translate <50% of the votes into a win. Those tools aren't readily available for Dems because of the current asymmetric nature of American politics.

Realistically, we haven’t had a president that has one a raw majority of the voting age population probably ever. Certainly not in any of our lifetimes on this forum. So we are talking about minority rule.

Trump won in part by expanding the Republican coalition  a few percentage points into pockets of people that usually don’t vote against an opponent that Could barely inspire her own base much less non-voters.

Trying to pretend the 55% of turnout is a non-mutable fixed population, and the only strategy is to blow out your left flank in an attempt to convince people in the middle to switch is a suckers game. We’ve seen how well that’s worked over the last 25 years, where the democrats can only win when they have a great candidate or democrats or when the Republicans threaten to fuck up Medicare or social security.

Giving up 10% of registered Democrats for 10% of thecurrently  non-voting population would be a net gain. Can that be done? I have no idea. The only candidate that has really tried it in a general election is Trump. But I do know the math is a lot more complex than you are suggesting.

Mandark

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Re: U.S. Politics |OT| Jeffrey Epstein? I don't know her.
« Reply #37489 on: July 15, 2019, 06:57:04 PM »
I don't think "you can win by driving up turnout" is really compatible with "you only need 25% of the population."

kingv

  • Senior Member
Re: U.S. Politics |OT| Jeffrey Epstein? I don't know her.
« Reply #37490 on: July 15, 2019, 07:36:31 PM »
My point is that trying to divide up the current electorate by being everything to everyone is going to always have results where you win or lose based on how overtly awful the republicans are being at any moment.

26% of the voting age population currently identify as democrats and their turnout is historically pretty marginal compared to Republicans. So yeah, if they had 25% that would reliably turn out they would win more elections.

Mandark

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Re: U.S. Politics |OT| Jeffrey Epstein? I don't know her.
« Reply #37491 on: July 15, 2019, 08:27:51 PM »

agrajag

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Re: U.S. Politics |OT| Jeffrey Epstein? I don't know her.
« Reply #37492 on: July 15, 2019, 08:33:35 PM »
at least Mandark agrees that Biden is an asshole  :jawalrus

Tripon

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Re: U.S. Politics |OT| Jeffrey Epstein? I don't know her.
« Reply #37493 on: July 15, 2019, 08:44:21 PM »
https://twitter.com/ErinBanco/status/1150906185081643010

Turkey paid for some top tier lobbying...

kingv

  • Senior Member
Re: U.S. Politics |OT| Jeffrey Epstein? I don't know her.
« Reply #37494 on: July 15, 2019, 08:52:20 PM »
at least Mandark agrees that Biden is an asshole  :jawalrus

We all need something to rally behind.


toku

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agrajag

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Re: U.S. Politics |OT| Jeffrey Epstein? I don't know her.
« Reply #37497 on: July 15, 2019, 11:05:30 PM »

Tripon

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curly

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