Maybe the real NeoGAF was the friends we made along the way...

[Polyh3dron]

He has nothing to make amends for.

He did nothing wrong, and his game looks cool.

Drama for drama's sake by distinguished mentally-challenged fellows.

AHA! GOTCHA! So you finally admit the market fails!

Fisted by the invisible hand.

[etiolate]

so wait

Evilore was the "my sister was assaulted" post?


http://archive.is/tKRxo

That avatar is a crop of a pic satirizing the situation. I doubt someone who was concerned about their sister would chose that of all things.

The again, you're not saying they are sincere. Nevermind.

Ah, you're right. That av is the drawing cropped.

[VomKriege]

I think the "sister" bit was a shrewd move to get the story on GAF without the thread being nuked in the minute.

[StealthFan]

smh at continually doubting the legitimacy of the story. That's how predators continue to thrive. The story is true.

[Rufus]

smh at continually doubting the legitimacy of the story. That's how predators continue to thrive. The story is true.

That's not what we're talking about at the minute, click the thread he linked.

[nudemacusers]

Pretty suspicious that the mods recognize it on sight

[Takao]

http://m.neogaf.com/showthread.php?t=1450620

So he's saying this is a movie with Finger Guns ... 

[benjipwns]

The moderators didn't even know Evilore's username or real name until today, nobody had even heard of him. Plus there was no way of getting in contact with administration staff at all.

It's best to wait for the facts from an unbiased source like Evilore rather than jumping on whatever fake smears the gamergate trolls are cooking up in Mother Russia and 4chan to try and undermine NeoGAF.com's mission.

[benjipwns]

Cheers.

[benjipwns]

Of course, is NeoGAF "the market?"

At this point, it needs to be. The danger otherwise is becoming too great.

[StealthFan]

What's with the Russia panic? I keep seeing it but why the fuck would Russian marks bother posting on a videogame messageboard that nobody outside the gaming community recognizes. Even folks in the gaming community haven't heard of that shit. I had a convo with a friend years back that plays games all day and night and mentioned GAF and he was like wtf is GAF.

[etiolate]

Was sad that there was no Bobby Roberts on this page yet.

[Brehvolution]

The moderators didn't even know Evilore's username or real name until today, nobody had even heard of him. Plus there was no way of getting in contact with administration staff at all.

It's best to wait for the facts from an unbiased source like Evilore rather than jumping on whatever fake smears the gamergate trolls are cooking up in Mother Russia and 4chan to try and undermine NeoGAF.com's mission.

[Switters]

Revolutionary META, guys.

[VomKriege]

What's with the Russia panic? I keep seeing it but why the fuck would Russian marks bother posting on a videogame messageboard that nobody outside the gaming community recognizes. Even folks in the gaming community haven't heard of that shit. I had a convo with a friend years back that plays games all day and night and mentioned GAF and he was like wtf is GAF.

Because Russian intelligence is supposedly piloting opinion shaping on every relevant quarter of the Internet. Surely they must be on GAF which is about to blow the lid on the Trump conspiracy. Any day now.

[benjipwns]

You guys forget that it's been less than ten years since everything seemingly was spinning out of control*, just imagine what gamergate and their Russian allies have done in that time to boost their capabilities to cause even more of a great unraveling like eroding our trust in Evilore, especially now that they have King Milkshake Duck in the White House checked only by besada's lonely twitter vigil.

*

spoiler (click to show/hide)

Sunday, June 22, 2008
Associated Press

Everything Seemingly Is Spinning Out of Control
by Alan Fram and Eileen Putman

WASHINGTON - Is everything spinning out of control?

Midwestern levees are bursting. Polar bears are adrift. Gas prices are skyrocketing. Home values are abysmal. Air fares, college tuition and health care border on unaffordable. Wars without end rage in Iraq, Afghanistan and against terrorism.

Horatio Alger, twist in your grave.

The can-do, bootstrap approach embedded in the American psyche is under assault. Eroding it is a dour powerlessness that is chipping away at the country's sturdy conviction that destiny can be commanded with sheer courage and perseverance.

The sense of helplessness is even reflected in this year's presidential election. Each contender offers a sense of order - and hope. Republican John McCain promises an experienced hand in a frightening time. Democrat Barack Obama promises bright and shiny change, and his large crowds believe his exhortation, "Yes, we can."

Even so, a battered public seems discouraged by the onslaught of dispiriting things. An Associated Press-Ipsos poll says a barrel-scraping 17 percent of people surveyed believe the country is moving in the right direction. That is the lowest reading since the survey began in 2003.

An ABC News-Washington Post survey put that figure at 14 percent, tying the low in more than three decades of taking soundings on the national mood.

"It is pretty scary," said Charles Truxal, 64, a retired corporate manager in Rochester, Minn. "People are thinking things are going to get better, and they haven't been. And then you go hide in your basement because tornadoes are coming through. If you think about things, you have very little power to make it change."

Recent natural disasters around the world dwarf anything afflicting the U.S. Consider that more than 69,000 people died in the China earthquake, and that 78,000 were killed and 56,000 missing from the Myanmar cyclone.

Americans need do no more than check the weather, look in their wallets or turn on the news for their daily reality check on a world gone haywire.

Floods engulf Midwestern river towns. Is it global warming, the gradual degradation of a planet's weather that man seems powerless to stop or just a freakish late-spring deluge?

It hardly matters to those in the path. Just ask the people of New Orleans who survived Hurricane Katrina. They are living in a city where, 1,000 days after the storm, entire neighborhoods remain abandoned, a national embarrassment that evokes disbelief from visitors.

Food is becoming scarcer and more expensive on a worldwide scale, due to increased consumption in growing countries such as China and India and rising fuel costs. That can-do solution to energy needs - turning corn into fuel - is sapping fields of plenty once devoted to crops that people need to eat. Shortages have sparked riots. In the U.S., rice prices tripled and some stores rationed the staple.

Residents of the nation's capital and its suburbs repeatedly lose power for extended periods as mere thunderstorms rumble through. In California, leaders warn people to use less water in the unrelenting drought.

Want to get away from it all? The weak U.S. dollar makes travel abroad forbiddingly expensive. To add insult to injury, some airlines now charge to check luggage.

Want to escape on the couch? A writers' strike halted favorite TV shows for half a season. The newspaper on the table may soon be a relic of the Internet age. Just as video stores are falling by the wayside as people get their movies online or in the mail.

But there's always sports, right?

The moorings seem to be coming loose here, too.

Baseball stars Barry Bonds and Roger Clemens stand accused of enhancing their heroics with drugs. Basketball referees are suspected of cheating.

Stay tuned for less than pristine tales from the drug-addled Tour de France and who knows what from the Summer Olympics.

It's not the first time Americans have felt a loss of control.

Alger, the dime-novel author whose heroes overcame adversity to gain riches and fame, played to similar anxieties when the U.S. was becoming an industrial society in the late 1800s.

American University historian Allan J. Lichtman notes that the U.S. has endured comparable periods and worse, including the economic stagflation (stagnant growth combined with inflation) and Iran hostage crisis of 1980; the dawn of the Cold War, the Korean War and the hysterical hunts for domestic Communists in the late 1940s and early 1950s; and the Depression of the 1930s.

"All those periods were followed by much more optimistic periods in which the American people had their confidence restored," he said. "Of course, that doesn't mean it will happen again."

Each period also was followed by a change in the party controlling the White House.

This period has seen intense interest in the presidential primaries, especially the Democrats' five-month duel between Obama and Hillary Rodham Clinton. Records were shattered by voters showing up at polling places, yearning for a voice in who will next guide the country as it confronts the uncontrollable.

Never mind that their views of their current leaders are near rock bottom, reflecting a frustration with Washington's inability to solve anything. President Bush barely gets the approval of three in 10 people, and it's even worse for the Democratic-led Congress.

Why the vulnerability? After all, this is the 21st century, not a more primitive past when little in life was assured. Surely people know how to fix problems now.

Maybe. And maybe this is what the 21st century will be about - a great unraveling of some things long taken for granted.

© 2008 Associated Press

[close]

[VomKriege]

http://m.neogaf.com/showpost.php?p=252646977

I expected India when I first saw the pic since there's enough history behind this type of bullshit there for it to fly. But West Africa? Nivea gotta be out of their minds.

Isn't there a demand for those products in Africa too, whatever you may think of the reasons ?
Like Nivea is not just doing potentially problematic ads just for the sake of being evil.


Edit : to be fair the responses in this thread are ok.

[clothedmacuser]

If Nivea had those ads in America or Europe I would be more upset but isn't that a product that the locals want?  I looks bad because Nivea is a global corporation and it's HQ is in Germany but I'm sure there is a India branch or a Western Africa division that saw people were already buying local whitening creams and realized there was an opportunity. 


It's icky for sure but it's also kind of like Coke Japan selling vegetable flavor Coke.  The local division is catering to their consumers.

[EightBitNate]

http://m.neogaf.com/showpost.php?p=252646977

I expected India when I first saw the pic since there's enough history behind this type of bullshit there for it to fly. But West Africa? Nivea gotta be out of their minds.

Isn't there a demand for those products in Africa too, whatever you may think of the reasons ?
Like Nivea is not just doing potentially problematic ads just for the sake of being evil.


Edit : to be fair the responses in this thread are ok.

I never got the controversy over people wanting to lighten their skin. Tanning is accepted in society. Why is the reverse suddenly taboo?

[EightBitNate]

(Image removed from quote.)

(Image removed from quote.)

[shosta]

did you just shitpost twice in a row

[VomKriege]

It's theorized that the desire for fairer skin is largely the product of Eurocentric views imprinted on other civilizations (can't really comment on the validity of that idea though the fetishism for fair skin seem to sometimes have roots in local cultures before any contact with whites). From that perspective those companies are basically fueling 19th century racist self depreciation on those people.

I don't think it's that simple but it's not totally invalid either.

[TVC15]

Does that stuff actually make your skin fairer or is it marketing hype?

[EightBitNate]

did you just shitpost twice in a row

...

What?

[VomKriege]

Does that stuff actually make your skin fairer or is it marketing hype?

The English wiki page is pretty extensive. It does affect melanin in the skin, so the effects are real. Compounds used may have adverse effects so it's not risk free long term. Some products are prescription only in Europe. It does seem to have "legit" uses to reduce dark spots on one's skin.

[Rufus]

Does that stuff actually make your skin fairer or is it marketing hype?

https://np.reddit.com/r/CHICubs/comments/6n1pqo/oh_sammy_what_have_you_done_to_yourself/dk69crz/

[counterhit]

He has nothing to make amends for.

He did nothing wrong, and his game looks cool.

Drama for drama's sake by distinguished mentally-challenged fellows.

They think they know the plot based on some of those very vague tweets. A few reasonable members are like "okay, if it's bad, then it'll be bad I won't like it when I play it". What I have noticed that within those complaints there's a strain of post that can't even possibly conceive a left-themed "utopia" being bad as a premise. It's impossible to comprehend a negative interpretation of their ideology even as an extreme sci-fi premise. These guys argue how everything is politics, but they are too philosophically brain-dead to mean anything but their politics.

[VomKriege]

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=247280026&postcount=1644

WOOOOOOWWWWW

[etiolate]

i don't experience cringe humor

just cringe

[Raist]

https://twitter.com/messofanego/status/919966436554047488

 

Why the fuck does he have this pic as an account banner.

[clothedmacuser]

https://twitter.com/messofanego/status/919966436554047488

 

Why the fuck does he have this pic as an account banner.

Someone really needs to explain how dangerous it is to post all his personal info on the internet. SAD!

[EightBitNate]

Apparently Kotaku is working on an Evilore article. Oh boy...

[recursivelyenumerable]

Everything Seemingly Is Spinning Out of Control
by Alan Fram and Eileen Putman

WASHINGTON - Is everything spinning out of control?

Yes, seemingly

[clothedmacuser]

Apparently Kotaku is working on an Evilore article. Oh boy...

This is gonna be like Harvey Weinstein x .000001

[Himu]

Apparently Kotaku is working on an Evilore article. Oh boy...

[I'm a Puppy!]

You know, when this whole new wave of neo puritanism came up I was like "you guys should stop because pretty soon you'll turn on yourselves." And of course, people thought I was crazy for equating it to be like religion. Well...I'd say I hate to say "I told you so." But that's a lie. I love it.

[zepblackstar]

Apparently Kotaku is working on an Evilore article. Oh boy...

jason schreier  is so getting permbanned

[Jansen]

Apparently Kotaku is working on an Evilore article. Oh boy...

According to whom?

[recursivelyenumerable]

You know, when this whole new wave of neo puritanism came up I was like "you guys should stop because pretty soon you'll turn on yourselves." And of course, people thought I was crazy for equating it to be like religion. Well...I'd say I hate to say "I told you so." But that's a lie. I love it.

what is the downside in this case tho?

[Averon]

Apparently Kotaku is working on an Evilore article. Oh boy...

I hope this is true. The entertainment value from the drama will easily reach Amir0x level.
Hopefully this will force mods like Besada to explain why they are still working for a habitual sexually harasser.

[EightBitNate]

Apparently Kotaku is working on an Evilore article. Oh boy...

According to whom?

Someone from the thread on KiA said they’ve been in contact with the accuser. They claim the Jason guy from Kotaku is working on it. Not a complete confirmation, but I wouldn’t be surprised if we get something on it this weekend.

[benjipwns]

using the poly precedent...

jason schreier  is so getting permbanned

They claim the Jason guy from Kotaku is working on it.

mwaaa ha ha ha ha ha now i know what the power to get people banned from NeoGAF.com that Steve Youngblood possesses feels like

IT'S INTOXICATING

CHEERS

[toku]

[counterhit]

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=252634500&postcount=905

GamerGate is a lot more than a criticism of feminism. Nice gaslighting though.

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=252664929&postcount=998

low-key gaslighting ("What evidence is there that the story was about that to begin with?" when your posts are surrounded by posts quoting tweets that tell you exactly that

Gaslighting is a form of manipulation that seeks to sow seeds of doubt in a targeted individual or in members of a targeted group, hoping to make them question their own memory, perception, and sanity.

[stufte]

like that time evilore gaslighted the entire site about his familiarity with Amirox.

[benjipwns]

Tim replied following this that his stance from his previous position has since changed, and that The Last Night was in no way meant to be commentary surrounding the Gamergate controversy. He apologized for his past tweets while on stage during the PC Gaming Show the next day, stating "They don’t in any way represent where I am today or what The Last Night will be about".

holy crap i didn't know this, and they're still going mad about this guy tweeting some stuff in 2014?

edit: even waypoint seems to be okay with the dude

[benjipwns]

A note about this transcript: Soret has a pronounced accent and is clearly someone for whom English is a second language. Something to bear in mind as you read this is that he is often struggling to articulate his meaning, and that can lead to inartful and even more insensitive-sounding sentences than I believe he actually intends. That said, there is much he says and believes that you might find objectionable however artfully packaged.

[benjipwns]

THIS SORET DUDE IS FUCKING FRENCH

But a persistent theme to Soret's remarks is a desire for a kind of apolitical or passive progressivism. While it might be overstating things to say he's a GamerGate developer making a work of reactionary cyberpunk, he does share the suspicion of progressive / leftist critique that animated a lot of the people who really, truly believed they were part of a movement to protect "gamers" from a hostile and biased media.

Which is what lies at the heart of my own unease with The Last Night. The confused and thoroughly political apoliticism that Soret often defaults to preaching is too familiar at this point, betraying a hesitation to grapple with the choices and compromises of the status quo. With those underpinnings, I have my doubts that The Last Night can comprehend the present moment well enough to extrapolate an interesting and thought-provoking possible future.

HE'S FRENCHHHHHHHH DUDE

Progressive Americans trying to import how the French (even the French Left) approach politics into the American model never stops being funny; literally Rousseau's neverending nightmare in the English speaking world replaying for the rest of history

[clothedmacuser]

If they were told they had to read The Fountainhead these SJW's (unironically!!!!!!) would protest the school. Probably demand it be banned and burned.

[stufte]

If they were told they had to read The Fountainhead these Social Studies Warrior's (unironically!!!!!!) would protest the school. Probably demand it be banned and burned.

I mean...

https://www.nbcnews.com/think/opinion/why-are-we-still-teaching-kill-mockingbird-schools-ncna812281

[benjipwns]

  at this whole thing actually https://waypoint.vice.com/en_us/article/8x9wyv/gamergate-feminism-cyberpunk-an-interview-with-the-last-night-designer

interview input:

Waypoint: But you're describing a not-too-far-distant future. A lot of this already does exist under our current market structure. Like, a lot of the dystopian things you're describing are already here. The UBI aspect of it… all that does is eliminate a lot of the bullshit jobs that people need distractions from.

Soret: Yeah, it's not a critique of UBI. I love the idea! It's a thing we should go for! Because with automation and the loss of jobs, I think we won't have a choice anyway. So it's a good thing anyway.

But it's not UBI alone, it's UBI combined with loss of jobs entirely. The fact that you're not the ultimate form of life on earth anymore. You're not the center of the universe anymore. We've not been created by some god. We are evolved from apes. And the next step is probably: We're not the most intelligent thing on earth anymore. And this is going to be… a bit worrying, right?

How can you strive for anything, right? You cannot create anything new or interesting because AIs are using all the social media and everything to probe what is going to work. And they can make a new series, you know? And create new trends. And they can also make them obsolete in the same week.

They are going to be so much faster than anything we can do as humans. In the future, I guess I show this trailer on stage, and in five hours there are ten games like mine. That's what's going to happen. Right now, if someone wants to do what I do, then it will take 2-3 years to catch up, right? But that's what I want to describe! In the future, how can you get any advantage? How can you compete with machine learning, basically?

So that's the situation. In a world like that I feel I can't be dogmatic if I want to make any kind of interesting contemporary work. I can't just push an agenda and say, hey, UBI is awesome right? I have to be able to explore its beauty, and some people are going to be super happy under it, and some people in the game are going to be maybe you know be enriched. Because a rich family that's had a lot of wealth, they've inherited a lot. And I've got nothing, I've just got UBI as a basis. I don't have the same power as these people who had so much capital before.

I'm not trying to dismiss UBI, I'm just trying to be critical of it.

Huxley, for instance, in a Brave New World explored the idea of this perfect world and realized of course that they are never perfect. I'm trying to explore that, right? Every time we think we reach a state of balance, maybe some stuff is still worth being angry at? I'm trying to do that. To show the appeal of trying to change this world.

For me it's also a game about the danger of being too entrenched in your dogma.

David Martinez (Publisher, Raw Fury): The other thing you were alluding to is a lot of these systems are already in place. It's interesting because I've heard this presentation now twenty times. And one thing… did you say the part about how we're already living in a cyberpunk world? It's crazy when you think about it.

Soret: Cyberpunk, we already living in it I think today. It means we have cryptocurrencies, we have a machine army, we have drones, they're delivering stuff. We have multinational corporations evading taxes. We had Snowden expose massive state surveillance. All of that is textbook cyberpunk. So we are already living in it.

So I don't think it's that interesting for me to just make a game about that. So I want to put back the future and anticipation in cyberpunk. So I wanted to go the next step, and see whats there. So the game takes place in a world where we failed to address climate change and social and political issues.

Waypoint author output:

The confused and thoroughly political apoliticism that Soret often defaults to preaching is too familiar at this point, betraying a hesitation to grapple with the choices and compromises of the status quo. With those underpinnings, I have my doubts that The Last Night can comprehend the present moment well enough to extrapolate an interesting and thought-provoking possible future.

[benjipwns]

Yeah, I appreciate that you ask that because I can clarify. And I think you'll get a much better understanding of who I am and what I'm trying to do. I stand completely for equality and inclusiveness. I've already stated that in the past. You can look it up.

[Indeed you can, and the record here is equivocal. Soret's past statements largely support equality provided it's equality as he defines it. Your mileage may vary.]

I'm sad that there is no… I don't have a female team member on my team, right? Because among all the hundred of applications we received from people who want to work on this game, very few women came. For me this is really sad. I want women in this industry.

It's very simple. I feel very sad. I feel terrible about bringing back all that. I know the wound is still fresh for a lot of people. And it's been—

(Pauses, visibly starting to choke-up)

I regret using the hashtag. Really. I think I could have said the same thing, still standing for journalistic integrity. Still standing for the same thing without using the hashtag.

About feminism for instance, when I said I'm against feminism… that's the thing I was coming from a European background, I was quite strong in my stances and I was just starting to navigate all these complex socio-political issues. It's not at all that I'm against the goal of feminism, which is equality right. Actually, if you take the definition of feminism, I completely stand for it and I would call myself a feminist.

this fucking monster

[benjipwns]

NOTE: An earlier version of this article had Tim Soret quoted as saying he "condones" harassment. He does not. There was a mixup with his language and he said "condone" rather than "condemn" and he corrected himself a moment later. The raw transcript included that moment, but in editing it I left in "condone" and thus misrepresented what Soret's meaning. I regret the error, and the text is amended above.

[Brehvolution]

I regret using the hashtag.

 

[toku]

what

[benjipwns]

this is what they link to with the "the record here is equivocal. Soret's past statements largely support equality provided it's equality as he defines it. Your mileage may vary." part

https://twitter.com/timsoret/status/505220625066364928

https://twitter.com/timsoret/status/596659612033613825

[stufte]

Gamergate is/was a nothing burger that most people don't even care about outside of GAF and some twatters.

[benjipwns]

a guy who game journalists still apparently can't conduct interviews with well enough to not completely reverse the meaning of his statements is basically Hitler David Duke Palmer Luckey to NeoGAF.com because he tried to argue in English with people on twitter in 2014 and 2015 after using the gamergate hashtag and getting swarmed for it

this (along with Bobby Roberts' ban) is probably why Massive Duck C.M. felt he had to leave, his faith in the nexus was shaken

[benjipwns]

The thing is, between progressive persons, we can completely strive on the same end goal and destination, but still disagree on the way to get there. And the reason I say that is, you know, yeah I grew up in the 90s. And I kind of miss when the social fights were about being united together instead of these endless divisions between gender, races, sex, and everything. I loved when we were just… when it was about unification and fighting back together.

In a way I've seen the election of Trump and Brexit and everything and… did this new strategy work, you know? Did this way of fighting for equality and everything work?

It's not that I'm against these goals. But we have the right to be critical of the way to get there. In the same way, democracy we are all for it. But we can be critical of its implementation.

nope, not a good fit for NeoGAF.com at all

[benjipwns]

thanks a lot counterhit, everyone was much happier when i was ignorant of this "controversy"