Author Topic: Other Forums |OT| ♀ C O R E V A L U E S ♀ Sponsored By THQNordic (Read 7629570 times)

jorma · « **Reply #41040 on:** November 03, 2018, 06:52:24 PM »

Bethesda knows what's what:

Quote

“If we tried to do this last year without announcing what Bethesda Game Studios was doing [Fallout 4] and said, ‘Oh we’re doing a game and it’s on mobile and it’s called Fallout Shelter,’ we’d probably get lynched, right?’.There would be pitchforks at the gate. ‘That’s not the Fallout we asked for, you bastards!’ But doing it this way, they’re like, ‘I’m getting what I want and oh, by the way, while I wait here’s this other free thing that’s fun to play.”

No one gave a shit about fallout shelter, because Bethesda didn't present it at the next big thing in the Fallout universe to people who had been playing nothing but fallout 3 for the last 6 years.

You have to wonder why Blizzard didn't know or care.

Dennis · « **Reply #41041 on:** November 03, 2018, 06:58:40 PM »

People who post about something usually care a least a little bit

PogiJones · « **Reply #41042 on:** November 03, 2018, 07:02:28 PM »

I think we all agree it was a dumb move on Blizzard's part. Dumb for hyping up then disappointing fans, and dumb for pissing off the babies.

EightBitNate · « **Reply #41043 on:** November 03, 2018, 07:02:51 PM »

Quote from: Dennis on November 03, 2018, 06:58:40 PM

People who post about something usually care a least a little bit

“Shut the fuck up you fucking pedo.”

How close was I, Stro?

Joe Molotov · « **Reply #41044 on:** November 03, 2018, 07:05:25 PM »

Quote from: Glen on November 03, 2018, 06:24:50 PM

PD is still unbanned 24+ hours after the Cheebo betrayal

Biggest Top 10 Anime Betrayal of the Weekend: Cheebs' betrayal of PD, Blizzard's betrayal of their fans, or Bobby's betrayal of male feminism??

PogiJones · « **Reply #41045 on:** November 03, 2018, 07:10:28 PM »

Quote from: Stro on November 03, 2018, 07:02:48 PM

I literally don't know what the fuck you guys are talking about, but whatever it is it's not entertaining or funny at all so can you nerds at least post links to people having melt downs over....mobile games in 2018?

https://www.reddit.com/r/Diablo/top/?sort=top&t=week

Some examples:

https://www.reddit.com/r/Diablo/comments/9tnawi/diablo_on_mobile/ "Spit in our faces" 23k upvotes

https://www.reddit.com/r/Diablo/comments/9tnfy0/blizzard_diablo_on_mobile_is_a_slap_in_the_face/ "Slap in the face" 12k

https://www.reddit.com/r/Diablo/comments/9toigf/to_all_people_saying_stop_being_disrespectful_to/ "Disrespectful" 8k

https://www.reddit.com/r/Diablo/comments/9toqw8/id_be_less_offended_if_theyd_just_announced_they/ "Offended" 2k

Etc.

That's not even looking at the comments in each thread, which I don't really care to do.

NOT baby behavior: "Don't like" "Disappointed" "Won't play"

kingv · « **Reply #41046 on:** November 03, 2018, 07:15:49 PM »

Quote from: Dennis on November 03, 2018, 06:45:21 PM

Blizzard fucked up and to be honest it was a pretty obvious fuck-up that they really should have seen coming.

Even if you think a mobile game is fine, you don't know the games business if you couldn't predict that this would be a bad PR move on Blizzards part. Nothing about this backlash is surprising.

Glad we’re finally getting some new blood here.

ashep · « **Reply #41047 on:** November 03, 2018, 07:17:19 PM »

Diablo for mobile babbies is going to sell bajillions.

Who gives a fuck what a bunch of vocal neckbeards think?

kingv · « **Reply #41048 on:** November 03, 2018, 07:19:44 PM »

Quote from: jorma on November 03, 2018, 06:52:24 PM

Bethesda knows what's what:

Quote
“If we tried to do this last year without announcing what Bethesda Game Studios was doing [Fallout 4] and said, ‘Oh we’re doing a game and it’s on mobile and it’s called Fallout Shelter,’ we’d probably get lynched, right?’.There would be pitchforks at the gate. ‘That’s not the Fallout we asked for, you bastards!’ But doing it this way, they’re like, ‘I’m getting what I want and oh, by the way, while I wait here’s this other free thing that’s fun to play.”

No one gave a shit about fallout shelter, because Bethesda didn't present it at the next big thing in the Fallout universe to people who had been playing nothing but fallout 3 for the last 6 years.

You have to wonder why Blizzard didn't know or care.

Actually, wasn’t fallout shelter introduced and released on the same day fallout 4 was revealed?

Bethesda seemed to know that Fallout Shelter is really just marketing for its real business.
I think that’s what Blizzard got wrong with their marketing. Most PC/console companies view the mobile games as ancillary products to the “real” products.

Blizzard apparently does not.

Also, is it really just a reskin? Like does whatever crappy China mobile game literally have the same moves/mechanics/etc as Infinite, but with diablo graphics, or is that hyperbole?

thisismyusername · « **Reply #41049 on:** November 03, 2018, 07:31:34 PM »

Quote from: riotous on November 03, 2018, 06:26:16 PM

Quote from: Jansen on November 03, 2018, 06:24:39 PM
Can you dumbasses really not understand that the timing and place of announcing diablo mobile was extremely poor form on Blizzard's part?

I don't care diablo at all and still get the frustration.

A company marketing their game at a marketing event is poor form?

Marketing a game that doesn't target their core audience is poor form, yes. Nobody besides like China wanted Diablo Mobile. People paid $200 to see Diablo 4 Live (or $50 for Diablo goodies to watch a Livestream), not Diablo: The Hunt for Whales.

thisismyusername · « **Reply #41050 on:** November 03, 2018, 07:39:37 PM »

Quote from: kingv on November 03, 2018, 07:19:44 PM

Also, is it really just a reskin? Like does whatever crappy China mobile game literally have the same moves/mechanics/etc as Infinite, but with diablo graphics, or is that hyperbole?

https://www.reddit.com/r/Diablo/comments/9toc9n/diablo_immortal_is_just_a_reskinned_version_of_a/

You tell me.

NegativeCrepe · « **Reply #41051 on:** November 03, 2018, 07:43:48 PM »

nobody cares about your dumbass video game

thisismyusername · « **Reply #41052 on:** November 03, 2018, 07:46:31 PM »

Ok.

But you cared enough to reply.

Nintex · « **Reply #41053 on:** November 03, 2018, 07:47:58 PM »

Blizzard decided that this would make them a ton of money and the journo's would bail them out of any criticism. And so far they've been proven right.

Nintex · « **Reply #41054 on:** November 03, 2018, 07:56:04 PM »

Also next year Blizzard gets to do the Diablo 4 "WE TOTALLY LOVE THE FANS NOW!" reveal that gets them more positive press.
Maybe they'll have it at Keighly's show.

"So the fans you know, were happy with Diablo Immortal but they'd really like to see the next big thing in the Diablo universe. When's that coming?"

"OOh they're going to be excited today Geoff. We're announcing Diablo 4 today exclusively at the video game awards"

"Wow this is super exciting guys. Did you happen to bring a 2 minute CG trailer?"

"Honestly, Geoff, I thought you'd never ask!"

Straight Edge · « **Reply #41055 on:** November 03, 2018, 07:56:05 PM »

Is Diablo the game where you hold down left click?

agrajag · « **Reply #41056 on:** November 03, 2018, 08:02:01 PM »

Should I get Diablo 3 for Switch?

Straight Edge · « **Reply #41057 on:** November 03, 2018, 08:07:12 PM »

I heard it's perfect for Switch.

Nabbis · « **Reply #41058 on:** November 03, 2018, 08:08:57 PM »

Might as well just buy anything on the market if you have a Switch and plan on playing games.

HaughtyFrank · « **Reply #41059 on:** November 03, 2018, 08:09:15 PM »

The true mobile Diabolo

agrajag · « **Reply #41060 on:** November 03, 2018, 08:11:47 PM »

Quote from: Nabbis on November 03, 2018, 08:08:57 PM

Might as well just buy anything on the market if you have a Switch and plan on playing games.

I haven't played anything in months. Then again, I don't really game.

Transhuman · « **Reply #41061 on:** November 03, 2018, 08:12:27 PM »

Quote from: bork on November 03, 2018, 06:13:04 PM

https://www.resetera.com/threads/smash-ultimate-has-74-characters-yet-lacks-black-brown-characters-read-op.78580/page-15#post-14529530

Quote from: ShinNL, post: 14541096, member: 34513
Quote from: Nepenthe, post: 14529530, member: 1995
Making jokes and comments about non-human characters being examples of black characters due to stereotypical features is both racist and dismissive of the issue of media representation. Any posts that cross this line will continue to be moderated appropriately.
I agree jokes are inappropriate, but I do like to voice my opinion on representation. And I feel like I have to care with thread while the pro force are allowed to shout from their lunges (basically, censoring)

Do you state that dismission of media representation in games is a racist argument by itself? Or a bad thing to do in general?

See, as a Chinese living in mostly white towns in the Netherlands (never caring for communities nor seeking for racial communities) I feel like I'm completely Dutch. If there are any other minorities around, everyone treats that person as Dutch first as well. However, if someone suddenly brings up race and asks me the same questions I've heard over ten thousand times like where i am from (born in the Netherlands), if I eat dogs (no, I'm raised in the Netherlands), how it is like in my parent's hometown (how do I know that, I live here) I feel isolated. So for me, I much more prefer the no-color approach as there is absolutely no room to brew any racism, whereas color differentiation can brew problems. If there are kind hearted color differentiation, there are also ill intended color differentiation.

This leads me to Smash. I just see game video characters. Media representation is the last thing on my mind. Why is bringing up colors a thing? Before this thread, I literally didn't even remember what color each character was. For me it's a game characters representation. Why does it have to be about race?

For me, someone who doesn't care if a game is full white, full asian or full black, bringing up race sparks the same fear as when someone starts pointing out I'm that one Chinese guy or someone starts pointing out that one of my colleagues is that one black guy. So I feel that forcing media representation as a valid argument and censoring those who oppose it more as an enemy to race neutrality than those who dismiss it. That's my view due to my background as living as a minority.
Quote from: SweetNicole, post: 14541460, member: 15
If you've got an issue with a modpost, you can reach out to one of our mod captains. Ignoring, questioning, or trying to pick an argument over a modpost in the thread is thread derailment and will be actioned accordingly.

ShinNL: *heartfelt post explaining his own experiences being treated like an outsider due to race*
SweetNicole: "Do you want to get banned?"

Typical resetera. No-one's experiences are valid except for theirs. I don't know what they could do to be of greater embarrassment to the political left.

Uncle · « **Reply #41062 on:** November 03, 2018, 08:13:53 PM »

Quote from: agrajag on November 03, 2018, 08:02:01 PM

Should I get Diablo 3 for Switch?

It's awesome, yes

Nintex · « **Reply #41063 on:** November 03, 2018, 08:19:09 PM »

Quote

See, as a Chinese living in mostly white towns in the Netherlands (never caring for communities nor seeking for racial communities) I feel like I'm completely Dutch. If there are any other minorities around, everyone treats that person as Dutch first as well.

Straight Edge · « **Reply #41064 on:** November 03, 2018, 08:22:12 PM »

Sounds like they are downplaying the history of white supremacy.

Jenkem · « **Reply #41065 on:** November 03, 2018, 09:06:41 PM »

http://playdiablo4.com

PogiJones · « **Reply #41066 on:** November 03, 2018, 09:29:45 PM »

Quote from: Stro on November 03, 2018, 07:39:05 PM

Quote from: PogiJones on November 03, 2018, 07:10:28 PM
Quote from: Stro on November 03, 2018, 07:02:48 PM
I literally don't know what the fuck you guys are talking about, but whatever it is it's not entertaining or funny at all so can you nerds at least post links to people having melt downs over....mobile games in 2018?

https://www.reddit.com/r/Diablo/top/?sort=top&t=week

Some examples:

https://www.reddit.com/r/Diablo/comments/9tnawi/diablo_on_mobile/ "Spit in our faces" 23k upvotes

https://www.reddit.com/r/Diablo/comments/9tnfy0/blizzard_diablo_on_mobile_is_a_slap_in_the_face/ "Slap in the face" 12k

https://www.reddit.com/r/Diablo/comments/9toigf/to_all_people_saying_stop_being_disrespectful_to/ "Disrespectful" 8k

https://www.reddit.com/r/Diablo/comments/9toqw8/id_be_less_offended_if_theyd_just_announced_they/ "Offended" 2k

Etc.

That's not even looking at the comments in each thread, which I don't really care to do.

NOT baby behavior: "Don't like" "Disappointed" "Won't play"

"Someone give me links."

*gives links*

"no1curr"

Jenkem · « **Reply #41067 on:** November 03, 2018, 09:41:36 PM »

you got baited

princess_breanna · « **Reply #41068 on:** November 03, 2018, 09:46:45 PM »

free Creepy Stalker

EightBitNate · « **Reply #41069 on:** November 03, 2018, 09:58:16 PM »

https://www.resetera.com/threads/jewish-fsu-student-activist-arrested-for-throwing-chocolate-milk-at-republican-volunteer.78863/

Quote

the crime or tort of unconsented physical contact with another person, even where the contact is not violent but merely menacing or offensive.

I mean I understand her frustration but that’s literally the definition of battery.

EightBitNate · « **Reply #41070 on:** November 03, 2018, 10:07:17 PM »

Quote from: shosta on November 03, 2018, 10:01:27 PM

ok but throwing chocolate milk at someone makes you an asshole, not a CRIMINAL that should suffer a scarlet letter with enduring consequences

It's always rich to me that these conservatives call people snowflakes but are so quick to file the most pussy sounding criminal cases ever. Your honor, my ugg boots were stained!

More than one person is arguing that it’s not battery. It is. I don’t disagree that pressing charges is too far, but you’re literally redefining the word to say it’s not battery.

EightBitNate · « **Reply #41071 on:** November 03, 2018, 10:12:52 PM »

Google “demurrer”. A judge can dismiss a case without discrediting the claims of the plaintiff. Just means the judge doesn’t believe they’re entitled to anything for it.

In this situation, she’s guilty of battery, but “who cares?” basically. Arguing it’s not battery is stupid.

EightBitNate · « **Reply #41072 on:** November 03, 2018, 10:20:01 PM »

stupid ass bitch

PogiJones · « **Reply #41073 on:** November 03, 2018, 10:31:44 PM »

The whole reason the common law defines offensive contact as battery is the whole point of it is to make someone feel unsafe and unwelcome in a place, often public.

Just look at that thread. "Good." "No quarter." They want republicans to feel unsafe and unwelcome in public, and they all feel that throwing the milk furthers that goal.

So yeah. Making someone feel unwelcome/threatened in society by using offensive contact is a crime.

The quintessential case we learned about was someone yanking a plate of food out of someone's hands. It was a battery (although it was a civil case, IIRC), because the point was to offend and make them feel unwelcome and/or threatened.

Why is Shosta wrong about almost everything?

agrajag · « **Reply #41074 on:** November 03, 2018, 10:35:29 PM »

Quote from: riotous on November 03, 2018, 10:30:09 PM

Like when you battered your sister.

That's wasn't batter

Jansen · « **Reply #41075 on:** November 03, 2018, 10:37:59 PM »

Quote from: Stro on November 03, 2018, 09:50:50 PM

Quote from: PogiJones on November 03, 2018, 09:29:45 PM
Quote from: Stro on November 03, 2018, 07:39:05 PM
Quote from: PogiJones on November 03, 2018, 07:10:28 PM
Quote from: Stro on November 03, 2018, 07:02:48 PM
I literally don't know what the fuck you guys are talking about, but whatever it is it's not entertaining or funny at all so can you nerds at least post links to people having melt downs over....mobile games in 2018?

https://www.reddit.com/r/Diablo/top/?sort=top&t=week

Some examples:

https://www.reddit.com/r/Diablo/comments/9tnawi/diablo_on_mobile/ "Spit in our faces" 23k upvotes

https://www.reddit.com/r/Diablo/comments/9tnfy0/blizzard_diablo_on_mobile_is_a_slap_in_the_face/ "Slap in the face" 12k

https://www.reddit.com/r/Diablo/comments/9toigf/to_all_people_saying_stop_being_disrespectful_to/ "Disrespectful" 8k

https://www.reddit.com/r/Diablo/comments/9toqw8/id_be_less_offended_if_theyd_just_announced_they/ "Offended" 2k

Etc.

That's not even looking at the comments in each thread, which I don't really care to do.

NOT baby behavior: "Don't like" "Disappointed" "Won't play"

"Someone give me links."

*gives links*

"no1curr"

I meant RE links not redsit ya whiny binch

Shut the fuck up you wrestling loving piece of human garbage.

Jansen · « **Reply #41076 on:** November 03, 2018, 10:43:41 PM »

Polari · « **Reply #41077 on:** November 03, 2018, 10:44:34 PM »

Anyone want to get rich with me. I'm easy who plays the repub and who plays the dem but we can split the venmo proceeds 60/40 (I get the extra points for having the idea)

kingv · « **Reply #41078 on:** November 03, 2018, 11:19:12 PM »

Quote from: thisismyusername on November 03, 2018, 07:39:37 PM

Quote from: kingv on November 03, 2018, 07:19:44 PM
Also, is it really just a reskin? Like does whatever crappy China mobile game literally have the same moves/mechanics/etc as Infinite, but with diablo graphics, or is that hyperbole?

https://www.reddit.com/r/Diablo/comments/9toc9n/diablo_immortal_is_just_a_reskinned_version_of_a/

You tell me.

Damn, same interface and I’m pretty sure I saw that whirlwind move with the exact same animations in the trailer.

Jansen · « **Reply #41079 on:** November 03, 2018, 11:19:55 PM »

https://www.resetera.com/posts/14572093/

Quote from: BurntFoot, post: 14572093, member: 41935

Obama is mixed, not black. Let's stop with the one drop rule which is rooted in racism.

Quote from: BurntFoot, post: 14572051, member: 41935

I'm a solutions oriented guy, look above.

The idea that voting is the way to bring about change is indicative of a slave mentality tbh. We dishonour the ancestors with that nonsense.

daemon · « **Reply #41080 on:** November 03, 2018, 11:22:52 PM »

What's this i'm reading about Hobbits Mc.Robertson assaulting a woman

Tripon · « **Reply #41081 on:** November 03, 2018, 11:30:36 PM »

Bobby Roberts has to be a fake name right? Who names their son Robert Roberts?

EightBitNate · « **Reply #41082 on:** November 03, 2018, 11:51:26 PM »

Quote from: Tripon on November 03, 2018, 11:30:36 PM

Pretentious Hobo has to be a fake name right? Who names their son Robert Roberts?

ashep · « **Reply #41083 on:** November 04, 2018, 12:36:07 AM »

https://www.resetera.com/threads/ups-fires-employee-for-blackface.78838/

Painting your face in 2018 is suspect as fuck no matter what, but its idiotic the way the usual suspects try to argue theres no difference between this dude and a woman trying to look like Beyonce.

NegativeCrepe · « **Reply #41084 on:** November 04, 2018, 01:03:22 AM »

Quote from: Exodust on November 03, 2018, 11:20:55 PM

Quote from: Glen on November 03, 2018, 06:24:50 PM
PD is still unbanned 24+ hours after the Cheebo betrayal

Teflon Don

mods must realize the users are all lunatics so they won't do a thing lol

Jansen · « **Reply #41085 on:** November 04, 2018, 01:10:53 AM »

https://www.resetera.com/posts/14572093/

User banned: (3 Days) Racism, Barack Obama identifies as African America.

Lol only 3 days mods are just insanely inconsistent

clothedmacuser · « **Reply #41086 on:** November 04, 2018, 01:38:02 AM »

The milk thing.

Imagine if a proud boy splashed Fiji water at Excel or others. They would crumple to the ground and scream "acid attack!"

Or imagine anyone on Era having milk thrown on them while they were in a pro-choice protest? Would they press charges? It's more "assault is funny when we do it but it's literally the holocaust otherwise. Oh, you are Jewish and find that offensive, well then you should agree with me."

Jansen · « **Reply #41087 on:** November 04, 2018, 01:40:47 AM »

The only time any of them would have milk thrown on them is if their mom got pissed off enough after they demanded their 4th serving of tendies for the day

clothedmacuser · « **Reply #41088 on:** November 04, 2018, 01:50:25 AM »

Quote from: RedMercury

Good on her, this is what we gotta be doing. No quarter. I'm going to Venmo her some cash.

Quote

Whatever you have in your hands and ready to go, really

Quote

We're past "disagreeing" when the other party can't even agree on basic human rights. Don't cry for them, they won't for you, and if you're a minority or poor they want you either dead or as a non-entity in our Democratic process.

Quote

Could she have probably made better use of herself protesting in a different way? Probably, but at least she did *something* when a lot of people are content with sitting on their hands.

Someone finally asks what he means

Quote from: Teh Hamburgler

What do you mean by civil and proper

Quote from: RedMercury

Like not throwing chocolate milk at them given the opportunity!

Quote from: Teh Hamburgler

Uhh, okay.

https://www.resetera.com/posts/14574593

Apparently Red Mercury has never in his life had the opportunity to throw milk on a republican. Because otherwise he would totally do it. For real. He means it!

benjipwns · « **Reply #41089 on:** November 04, 2018, 01:08:09 AM »

So much for the Lactose Tolerant Left.

BrokenEchelon · « **Reply #41090 on:** November 04, 2018, 02:55:02 AM »

Welp. I lasted one year. One year of listening to those idiots losing their shit over everything. The final straw was the whole "HOW DARE THIS INDUSTRY STILL MAKE SEXY FEMALE CHARACTERS!" shit. I just got tired of those ugly she-trolls being mad that men would literally prefer fapping to cartoon boobs than their mentally deranged asses, so I said one too many things and got perm'd.

Excelsiorlef and Enzom are particularly trash humans.

benjipwns · « **Reply #41091 on:** November 04, 2018, 03:21:06 AM »

stolen from elsewhere so dunno what thread sry:

one of these "finally snaps at incelsiorlef posts" needs a shot about the wrasslin addiction, like just a savage paragraph denying their humanity, a wrasslin' input and ResetERA spam output based Canadian WMD that attaches it to the hysteria thread of the moment as proscribed by the discord, not an actual human being

benjipwns · « **Reply #41092 on:** November 04, 2018, 03:25:16 AM »

oh, it's our beloved bigoted gamer trash tiesto

Transhuman · « **Reply #41093 on:** November 04, 2018, 03:27:01 AM »

Remember when Rosa Parks would pour splash people with chocolate milk and run away?

benjipwns · « **Reply #41094 on:** November 04, 2018, 03:33:57 AM »

i see this was all discussed pages back, this is why i should always read pages back, along with making sure that likes are properly dispensed

Quote from: Exodust on November 03, 2018, 12:08:59 PM

she realizes she has no real legs to stand on

wow, she's disabled too? and you pigs are attacking her constantly?

i'd defend and protect you queen, but you have to stop funding the McMahon family and their pro-GOP agenda!

seagrams hotsauce · « **Reply #41095 on:** November 04, 2018, 03:39:57 AM »

if you call the cops on someone for pouring a cold drink on you you're a total pussy

benjipwns · « **Reply #41096 on:** November 04, 2018, 03:40:52 AM »

the gaming related video that tiesto wants you to forget:

spoiler (click to show/hide)

actually, it's this one

spoiler (click to show/hide)

[close]

Transhuman · « **Reply #41097 on:** November 04, 2018, 03:50:41 AM »

Quote from: seagrams hotsauce on November 04, 2018, 03:39:57 AM

if you call the cops on someone for pouring a cold drink on you you're a total pussy

Unless it's a Republican throwing milk on a Democrat. Then it's a triumph of justice.

benjipwns · « **Reply #41098 on:** November 04, 2018, 03:58:49 AM »

Quote from: Jansen on November 04, 2018, 01:10:53 AM

https://www.resetera.com/posts/14572093/

for an ERA thread, uhnomoli is completely destroying the regulars in there without getting baited...

Quote

Member Since: Oct 29, 2017
Messages: 58

r.i.p. in pieces uhnomoli

Occam · « **Reply #41099 on:** November 04, 2018, 04:16:20 AM »

https://www.resetera.com/threads/americans-not-voting-makes-a-statement-alright-f-ck-you-got-mine.78865/page-2#post-14573897
"Denies the racial identity of a man because he's not racially pure enough for your taste." -Syriel, Resetera

Serious post in 2018 by an American who considers himself a liberal, that no-one in the leftist forum takes issue with. Hitler would be so proud that racial theory is alive and well even on the left side now.
Horseshoe theory?

News:

Author Topic: Other Forums |OT| ♀ C O R E V A L U E S ♀ Sponsored By THQNordic (Read 7629570 times)