Long video discussion thread that is shit

[Momo]

We all know what this thread is going to be

spoiler (click to show/hide)

I really just want to talk about how awesome Stephen Fry is 

[close]

[Nintex]

Stephen Fry is great. He understands what all these other 'intellectuals' think they understand.

[Momo]

You could possibly have caught me out here a little, most of what I know of him is through the british press and social circles all pre the  podcast/longform conversation boom. My reason for not trusting him in this context are quotes attributed to him wrt kick racism out of football, racism in general and his timing thereof, standing back and shouting 'this isnt racism it's classism' rubs me the wrong way especially in the context of football where it kinda was/is racism. He also pops up a number of times in my circles trying to argue a lot of things isnt racism and it just seems fucking toxic. I'm willing to eat crow on this, so i'll watch your video and any long form talk you may know of where he clarifies his thoughts on racism and why he does what he does.

Well, some background. Spiked has its roots in Marxism, which is what it was in its previous incarnation as 'Living Marxism'. Living Marxism closed down due to a notorious Libel case against it. You couldn't really call Spiked, as it now is, particularly Marxist. They have evolved somewhat. It maintains a focus on appealing to a working-class audience though. And so it is obvious why Brendan, for instance, would side with Football fans. It should also be pointed out that Spiked is free speech absolutist. It believes in free speech no ifs or buts. In terms of anti-racism they promote a universalist approach, again something the old-left including Marxists used to believe in. They have a strong emphasis in the idea of freedom in general, but also freedom from the state specifically. And so a lot of their arguments tend to be against policing language no matter how offensive.

In terms of his comments on Racism in football, in was in response to the Lukaku chant.
http://www.spiked-online.com/newsite/article/that-lukaku-chant-its-open-season-on-football-scum-again/20349#.WwxAniAh3IU

Whether you actually agree with his stance on this is kind of beside the point though. I just don't think Alex Jones is a fair comparison. Brendan O'neill at least has a rational argument behind his stances. It's not so much about whether you agree with him, it is simply accepting there is a rational argument there. He isn't simply just talking shit, you can tell actual 'thought' has gone into it. It is the process in which he arrives at a conclusion that is important. He isn't some crazy conspiracy theorist rambling on, in other words.

In terms of what to listen to, there is plenty of stuff out there.
This for instance might give you some perspective of where he is coming from, and where Spiked is coming from for that matter.

Edit: I actually think this is a better video.

I'm 100% behind the right to offend, tbh what he said RE racism in football offended me, but I would never want to stop him from saying it. More than just that I dont find the commentary useful for anything but fueling a class war where it wasn't the primary driver, i'll walk back calling him Alex Jones, he has reason afterall. I'm however still highly critical of what he said there, not that he said it. 

[Stoney Mason]

whoops ignore me. carry on.

[Leadbelly]

You could possibly have caught me out here a little, most of what I know of him is through the british press and social circles all pre the  podcast/longform conversation boom. My reason for not trusting him in this context are quotes attributed to him wrt kick racism out of football, racism in general and his timing thereof, standing back and shouting 'this isnt racism it's classism' rubs me the wrong way especially in the context of football where it kinda was/is racism. He also pops up a number of times in my circles trying to argue a lot of things isnt racism and it just seems fucking toxic. I'm willing to eat crow on this, so i'll watch your video and any long form talk you may know of where he clarifies his thoughts on racism and why he does what he does.

Well, some background. Spiked has its roots in Marxism, which is what it was in its previous incarnation as 'Living Marxism'. Living Marxism closed down due to a notorious Libel case against it. You couldn't really call Spiked, as it now is, particularly Marxist. They have evolved somewhat. It maintains a focus on appealing to a working-class audience though. And so it is obvious why Brendan, for instance, would side with Football fans. It should also be pointed out that Spiked is free speech absolutist. It believes in free speech no ifs or buts. In terms of anti-racism they promote a universalist approach, again something the old-left including Marxists used to believe in. They have a strong emphasis in the idea of freedom in general, but also freedom from the state specifically. And so a lot of their arguments tend to be against policing language no matter how offensive.

In terms of his comments on Racism in football, in was in response to the Lukaku chant.
http://www.spiked-online.com/newsite/article/that-lukaku-chant-its-open-season-on-football-scum-again/20349#.WwxAniAh3IU

Whether you actually agree with his stance on this is kind of beside the point though. I just don't think Alex Jones is a fair comparison. Brendan O'neill at least has a rational argument behind his stances. It's not so much about whether you agree with him, it is simply accepting there is a rational argument there. He isn't simply just talking shit, you can tell actual 'thought' has gone into it. It is the process in which he arrives at a conclusion that is important. He isn't some crazy conspiracy theorist rambling on, in other words.

In terms of what to listen to, there is plenty of stuff out there.
This for instance might give you some perspective of where he is coming from, and where Spiked is coming from for that matter.

Edit: I actually think this is a better video.

I'm 100% behind the right to offend, tbh what he said RE racism in football offended me, but I would never want to stop him from saying it. More than just that I dont find the commentary useful for anything but fueling a class war where it wasn't the primary driver, i'll walk back calling him Alex Jones, he has reason afterall. I'm however still highly critical of what he said there, not that he said it.

That's fine. I just didn't think Alex Jones was a fair comparison that's all. No matter what you think of him, he is clearly well read and has a knowledge of what he speaks about at least. I just think people should recognise those qualities in a person.

I will say actually, I don't always agree with him. I remember him writing an article defending Jeremy Clarkson after he punched one of his staff. He got that wrong in my mind. Where I actually find Brendan sometimes quite brilliant is in areas of free speech and Enlightenment values because it is clear he is well read on this subject and has good knowledge about what he is speaking about. He does also write good articles despite some of them where I think he has missed the mark on.

[agrajag]

[Leadbelly]

That's some next level animation.

[toku]

[agrajag]

[Leadbelly]

There's no utterance of the forbidden word in that one. Kanye could've at least mentioned slavery was a choice. Oh well, an opportunity missed.

[agrajag]

[D3RANG3D]

[Leadbelly]

edit

[Rufus]

https://twitter.com/SarahTaber_bww/status/998385720992595968

(it's a bigger thread, btw; exhasperation very obvious)

[Mandark]

JP explaining that women were never oppressed at any point in (presumably "Western") history. Cause life was rough for everyone back then and they were just trying to ameliorate that with a "division of labor."

Lordy. It feels like you'd have to really actively work at falling for this guy's bullshit.

[Trent Dole]

[agrajag]

I think you took the thread title too literally

[team filler]

[agrajag]

[Nintex]

What I'd like to see is a future Zelda game in which the Hylian or Hyrule tribes are attacked by another power from overseas or whatever which doesn't rely on Magic/Tri-Forces etc. but raw strength and militarization instead.

[benjipwns]

https://twitter.com/SarahTaber_bww/status/998385720992595968

(it's a bigger thread, btw; exhasperation very obvious)

that thread got into discussing sperm insertion much quicker than i expected, who does she think she is, thebore.com?

[benjipwns]

JP explaining that women were never oppressed at any point in (presumably "Western") history. Cause life was rough for everyone back then and they were just trying to ameliorate that with a "division of labor."

Lordy. It feels like you'd have to really actively work at falling for this guy's bullshit.

Thesis: Women are specially oppressed in certain ways.
Antithesis: Life has always sucked for everyone, there is only suffering and oppression.
Synthesis: Clean your desiccated castle.

[Rufus]

that thread got into discussing sperm insertion much quicker than i expected, who does she think she is, thebore.com?

I wanna know how reliable our plungers are. Like, how long can you wait before it's too late?

[Atramental]

PragerU snapped up Etoilet's boy.

[Mandark]

Liked the original more than the remake.

[recursivelyenumerable]

JP explaining that women were never oppressed at any point in (presumably "Western") history. Cause life was rough for everyone back then and they were just trying to ameliorate that with a "division of labor."

Lordy. It feels like you'd have to really actively work at falling for this guy's bullshit.

Thesis: Women are specially oppressed in certain ways.
Antithesis: Life has always sucked for everyone, there is only suffering and oppression.
Synthesis: Clean your desiccated castle.

I guess I can't really break out the Drudge siren to clarify that Hegel wasn't actually big on the "thesis antithesis synthesis" formulation, since you didn't actually cite Hegel, although I can't help but suspect you wanted to.

[agrajag]

12:50
JP: "I don't think facts are true"

what a postmodernist snowflake

[TVC15]

12:50
JP: "I don't think facts are true"

what a postmodernist snowflake

[Leadbelly]

12:50
JP: "I don't think facts are true"

what a postmodernist snowflake

Yeah. I watched that Sam Harris interview. His definition of 'truth' does have a kind of postmodern surrealism to it, that's for sure.

I think I know why he does it. I think it is him trying to reconcile his own religious beliefs with scientific reason. He later describes it has 'higher truth'. This is clearly relgious thinking to me. In other words, there is an earthly truth and then there is a higher spiritual truth. The problem is Jordan knows as an academic that this sort of thinking needs to be grounded in some kind of rational foundation. This is an attempt at him doing so.

[team filler]

[toku]

[Momo]

[team filler]

[Leadbelly]

Jordan Peterson vs Susan Blackmore • Do we need God to make sense of life?


Next up: Steven Pinker vs Nick Spencer: Did Christianity birth the scientific revolution?

preview:

[Momo]

stop unlocking this thread you fucking morons.

[bork]

Why do you keep locking it?

[Momo]

I dont want anything to do with JP circle jerks.

[bork]

So stop posting in the thread and let 'em have it if they want? 

But OK.

[Great Rumbler]

lol jp