Game of Thrones Season 8, we can finally stop waiting on GURM

[Momo]

dont let your dreams become memes

[VomKriege]

These dudes really bailed on GOT (to the point of straight up rushing a season just to get it over with, at the expense of the writing and 7 years of build, with HBO begging them to do more), which was only growing in popularity and could have gone on basically infinitely with more and more money each year, for Star Wars, which hit critical mass and has had diminishing returns 3 movies in a row?

 

Guys might have been a bit spent after writing 8 years of the same stuff in a potentially high pressure / deadline driven environment. And maybe didn't want to just be the Thrones dudes.


And that offer from Disney/Lucasfilm/Star Wars was up for grabs then, probably not for an indefinite time.

Arguably it's the smart move to get that next golden gig while you're hot. Adding more seasons wasn't a guarantee that the ending would have been better received.

The real failure was on the part of HBO's brass for not putting their foot down. They should have given D&D an ultimatum: finish the show with two full seasons, or get replaced as showrunners. If you'd rather be on Star Wars, there's the door.

Without being privy to the different deals in place, it's difficult to assess what HBO could or could not do here.

[VomKriege]

DP

[agrajag]

What did I expect Dany to do when she wins? Rule like Aegon the conqueror? Rule like she did Mereen? I don't know, I didn't map out an entire fanfic plot in my head I wanted the show to follow, I'm not a writer.

[agrajag]

good review

[Don Rumata]

"Dany's not her father, she's not insane, she's not a sadist, she's one of the good Targaryans"[/url]

Bobby Baratheon: "The only good Targaryen, is a dead Targaryen." 

[agrajag]

this video really nails how I feel about this season

https://youtu.be/qvRDXZqczhY?t=844

And so now the show doesn't feel like it's ending in the natural way it's always unfolded. And worse yet, now subversive moments like a dragon being shot out of the sky don't feel earned or shocking, they feel frustrating because we can see it was only done to serve the plot, to limit Daenerys's capabilities for the final battle. Just like when the Dothraki were foolishly sent charging into the darkness against the army of the dead, it was actually done just to serve to story, to thin out their numbers for the coming battle at King's Landing. It was done or future drama, not because it made any sense in the moment and this is all happening because they now working backwards. They've come up with an ending to the story and they now need to aim everything in that direction instead instead of letting the characters move about as they would normally and letting events unfold in their natural way.

Similarly to how the Iron Fleet and the giant crossbows are this big threat in one episode, and not even a factor in the next. It's just all so cheap. It's all spectacle.

[BobFromPikeCreek]

I can't imagine a less appealing video thumbnail.

[toku]

https://twitter.com/hyenasandgin/status/1128439540098715648

[Himu]

http://www.twitter.com/HunterxHunter56/status/1128513128923324416

http://www.twitter.com/HunterxHunter56/status/1128502047668568064

http://www.twitter.com/anthal_yogesh/status/1128466296536879106

VARYS DA GAWD

http://www.twitter.com/cerseilannistr/status/1128419276552056832

http://www.twitter.com/Luvvie/status/1128458158622613504

http://www.twitter.com/harryjaen/status/1128504032006266880

[Himu]

[MMaRsu]

Anyone have a link to that post where all the foreshadowing is laid bare? re dany?

[agrajag]

what a horrible monster that was ready to indiscriminently burn down innocent women and children at any moment! It's all there in the books, this ending is all according to Keikaku! The signs were there she was a mad titan all along!

 

[agrajag]

it's evidence of her not viewing people as expendable fodder and of her having empathy.

[Himu]

Here we are, a book fan, asking if Dany is a bad person. A Song of Ice and Fire isn't not about bad people. There are very few actual bad people in this story. Ramsay, Joffrey, and arguably Tywin. She is not bad, but she's certainly not good.

[Himu]

it's evidence of her not viewing people as expendable fodder and of her having empathy.

It also shows her inability to rule wisely and her impulsiveness.

Why are we even comparing book Dany to tv Dany? Haven't we all accepted that the books aren't the tv show? Why is he comparing tv Dany to the book Dany in season 8? He should have gotten used to this by now.

But nope. gotta make another bitch vid. This guy has made four videos in the past three days. He's a little bitch.

[agrajag]

after re-reading (listening) to that passage, do you believe that gleefully committing genocide is in her character?

edit: why compare them? Because of people like you saying "this ending is SO GRRM, he planned her to burn everything down all along" duh

[agrajag]

all my posts combined are shorter than your one long ass carepost, riopogi!

 

[agrajag]

She probably will feel remorse in the next episode. If you think she was gleefully burning King's Landing down you should rewatch Missandei's execution.

are you saying she mentaly snapped?

[agrajag]

all my posts combined are shorter than your one long ass carepost, riopogi!

 

How many hours of videos have you watched in the last day about this?  lol

probably a couple, I watch a lot of youtube and the algo keeps recommending me GoT videos

[Himu]

after re-reading (listening) to that passage, do you believe that gleefully committing genocide is in her character?

Absolutely. The problem with this passage is that it's taken out of context as if it's made in a bubble. And yet here's Dany's final chapter. In A Dance With Dragons Dany goes from caring for the people to marinating herself with her power and heritage. By the end of the novel she has resolved herself to not bother herself with the petty lives of the common people. "What was even that Meereneese girls name? I am the blood of the dragon."

You know what? I'm going to retire the "mad queen" phrase going forward because it does injustice to her character.

However, Dany has shown in both mediums to be capable of much cruelty. Almost as much as the goodness she's capable of bearing. This is why she is compelling.

[Himu]

Here we are, a book fan, asking if Dany is a bad person. A Song of Ice and Fire isn't not about bad people. There are very few actual bad people in this story. Ramsay, Joffrey, and arguably Tywin. She is not bad, but she's certainly not good.

"Arguably" Tywin?

Directly responsible for wanton rape and murder.  Horrific abuse to his own children.  I reminded someone the other day who had forgotten about Tyrion's first wife; that story tells you exactly what kind of man Tywin was...

What's the "argument," that he thought the definition of a "good man" was doing literally whatever it took to make his family - the ones he liked anyway - stronger?  All that is is a motive. 

Monsters almost never think they're monsters.  There are total monsters everywhere in this crapsack setting; the difference between Tywin and the others you might list off is just that he was the most calculating and intelligent monster.

I say arguably because while I personally think he's a bad man, I still struggle to place him on the same footing as Ramsay or Joffrey. But you're right. I'll add Roose Bolton to the list.

[agrajag]

lol there are a shitload of "bad people," Cindi.  Sir Gregor? His whole possee? The Torturer, Dick Twister, Biter, Rorge, etc.

[Himu]

Most of those aren't major characters.

In any case I still do not like using "good guys" and "bad guys" in reference to anyone in this story and asking if Daenerys is a bad person is a stupid question in a series where a man like Jaime Lannister can show depth after thinking he's a villain.

[agrajag]

The Mountain is a major character. Lord Frey, the Mad King himself, Euron, etc. etc.

[Himu]

The Mountain is a major character. Lord Frey, the Mad King himself, Euron, etc. etc.

The point was that truly bad people are, much like in life, very, very rare in ASOIAF/GOT. Not that they don't exist.

[team filler]

https://twitter.com/TVGuide/status/1128698197357092865

[team filler]

https://twitter.com/espn/status/1127728277924265984

[CatsCatsCats]

My god y’all putting more thought and energy into this than the show runners

[brawndolicious]

What did I expect Dany to do when she wins? Rule like Aegon the conqueror? Rule like she did Mereen? I don't know, I didn't map out an entire fanfic plot in my head I wanted the show to follow, I'm not a writer.

I mean, her conquest of slave cities was entirely through using fear and power. She never formed an alliance with anybody unless it was to defeat a bigger enemy. She's just not the diplomat type.

When she gets to King's Landing, there are no more enemies left, so she solidifies her power. The writing could be better to prepare for that, but I don't think that burning King's Landing is some unusually evil thing to do. If anything, the point is probably to make you think about whether Dany was just like every other asshole in the world.

[agrajag]

maybe if the writing was good, there would be no confusion over her going insane or solidifying her power.

Besides, the whole city was already cowering in fear. It wasn't Jon's army the Golden Company laid down their swords for. It was Dany on her dragon single handedly obliterating the Iron Fleet and destroying walls and battlements like a wrecking ball. They were already filled with fear. Of her. There was zero need to burn women and children. If she wanted to cap it off with an exclamation point, destroying the Red Keep with the Cersei inside would have sufficed.

And it's hardly pragmatic to utterly raze the entire capital city that you are going to have to spend millions of man hours and unthinkable amounts of Westerosi currency rebuilding.

[Himu]

maybe if the writing was good, there would be no confusion over her going insane or solidifying her power.

Maybe if you'd wait till the next episode you would find out.

I said days ago: you don't even see her face during the sack. You have no idea. All you can literally do is wait. This discussion is pointless now and has been for days. Every argument has been pulled, every juncture seen. Your judgement, however valid, is completely premature.

I've shat on this show more than anyone here besides maybe Glen, and look at what you wrote dude.

"there would be no confusion over her going insane or solidifying her power. "

Regarding a penultimate episode where we don't even see her reaction.

Sit down, cool your jets, and wait for the final episode.

This entire discussion is exhausted. Fuck.

[agrajag]

bro the writers are literally spelling it out for you that she's gone nuts. Not only in their commentary, but with "every Targ is a coin flip." People are ignoring that and coming up with their own motives that make slightly more sense (but still not completely, as I laid out above). The writers spelled out for you that Jaime still loves Cersei and went to be with her. You chose to ignore them and claim it's a "misdirection" and called everyone who disagreed with you dummies who don't know good storytellin'. You were wrong. When the writers outright tell me something, I believe them.

 

[Himu]

Oh, I believe that she's nuts.

[agrajag]

ok, that's it. No more from me in this thread except for memes until S6.

 

[Himu]

In any case, I believe she's nuts (she has shown she's does not care for the blood of innocents before) but I also think it's a fear based tactic. After all," let it be fear."

[agrajag]

nope, not gonna rope me back in

[Himu]

I'm not.

[MMaRsu]

maybe if the writing was good, there would be no confusion over her going insane or solidifying her power.

Besides, the whole city was already cowering in fear. It wasn't Jon's army the Golden Company laid down their swords for. It was Dany on her dragon single handedly obliterating the Iron Fleet and destroying walls and battlements like a wrecking ball. They were already filled with fear. Of her. There was zero need to burn women and children. If she wanted to cap it off with an exclamation point, destroying the Red Keep with the Cersei inside would have sufficed.

And it's hardly pragmatic to utterly raze the entire capital city that you are going to have to spend millions of man hours and unthinkable amounts of Westerosi currency rebuilding.

rebuilding? Why?

Why would you want to live there?

[agrajag]

why wouldn't you?

[MMaRsu]

I just felt like she didn't really give a fuck about the actual city at this point

aww you edited your comment

[agrajag]

yes her motivations have seemed to change in the span of one episode because Tormund snubbed her at an awards ceremony, while her entire life mission was laser focused on the singular goal of reclaiming the crown and ruling, not going on a nihilistic killing spree.

I edited because I misread your wording.

[MMaRsu]

Her entire life was ruling, that doesn't mean she has to rule from that particular city.

[Himu]

Agrajag, I was talking on the phone for work while chatting earlier.

Anyways, my point wasn't directed towards you specifically. My point was that many people are like,"WHAT IS HER MOTIVATION?!!?!?" and using that as a criticism of the episode when you don't even see her face during the sack. It's like, wait till the next episode?

[Himu]

Like as flawed as the writing is this season...

Lots of folks are fully on board the idea that because you don't know her motivation it equates to bad writing. It's like some people have forgotten how to watch a tv show.

Criticism is fine. But when you're all,"we don't know her motivation for this and therefore it's bad" it makes me wonder if some people have forgotten how to watch a tv show that airs week to week rather than something they binge.

[Himu]

Why are you guys paying attention to anything the showrunners even say?

[agrajag]

haha, fuck you reeotous

[Himu]

He’s ignored every post about her possible motivations.

Like her very clearly spelled out belief that the people will want Jon as King.

Whether she needed to burn down the entire city or not to make people too scared to go that route is besides the point, it’s a pretty obvious set up for a motivation.  She also may not have needed to crucify people or burn them alive but she did.  Including people she found out were innocent and didn’t give 2 shits about.

But I guess she’s been completely sane and purely good for 8 and a half seasons and this sudden heal turn is shocking because the show runners claimed she was good in some interview a while back.

Even fear probably won't fully cover it. Creating fear can't be the sole factor for going street by street and burning every person alive. She was ready to execute anyone who betrayed her father in the past, especially Jaime. Revenge has been on her mind a lot. That, and entitlement. Which is why I say wait for the next episode. There's multiple things leading to this.

[El Babua]

what a horrible monster that was ready to indiscriminently burn down innocent women and children at any moment! It's all there in the books, this ending is all according to Keikaku! The signs were there she was a mad titan all along!

 

Having skipped all the posts following this, I'll say that Dany still has a savior complex going on here, despite her kindness to those suffering. She's also shown a tendency to deliver tremendous suffering on those who she felt has wronged her, in many more cases in the books compared to the show. The final chapter of ADWD may be GRRM setting up her turn.

https://www.reddit.com/r/asoiaf/comments/bnzlv7/spoilers_main_daenerys_x_adwd_in_light_of_8x05/

Consider this, you have a motivated Daenerys fresh off liberating Essos of slavery arriving in Westeros with her army, slave soldiers, and (book wise, anyway) Red Priests calling her Azhor Ahai, the savior. She finds success in the Fire and Blood mentality by destroying the slave trade in Essos and being held up as a savior coming home to see her birthright snatched by some kid calling himself Aegon VI. He's considered the savior of the realm deposing Cersei, and Lannister tyranny. He has allies all throughout the realm, from Dorne, the Stormlands, and probably the Reach as well. Totally store Khaleesi's thunder. She's seen as a foreigner with a foreign army that will only bring more suffering as Winter only gets worse and worse. (I'm pretty sure GRRM won't forget Winter am i right)

I can see Dany being like, "You want to see what a real Targaryen looks like?" to them.

[agrajag]

Meh. I don't want to keep going in circles, but nothing you have brought up suggests her suddenly mowing down tens, if not hundreds of thousands of innocent people. Nothing in the show or the books establishes that she would do that. But it seems we will never come to a head on this, so it's a pointless debate. I could see the outcome ending up being similar in the book when GRRM gets around to it, but it will likely be mass casualties of war. I suspect stuff that doesn't make sense here will make sense in the book.

[Himu]

A lot of stories don’t work on the show without fAegon.

For example Cersei lasting this long is what has made Jaime’s story end the way it did.

[agrajag]

Shosta, if people keep @ing me, I must be given a chance to respond. 

the only one I will not engage with is reeeotous, that disingenuous fuck

[Mandark]

Meh. I don't want to keep going in circles, but nothing you have brought up suggests her suddenly mowing down tens, if not hundreds of thousands of innocent people. Nothing in the show or the books establishes that she would do that.

She yells something about burning cities to the ground like once a season. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

[agrajag]

That's a figure of speech. 

[agrajag]

you never threaten to burn people's cities to the ground when they cross you? I do it all the time

[mormapope]

I found a very NSFW spoiler pic for the series finale.

This is a huge spoiler and NSFW.


   

spoiler (click to show/hide)

[close]

Winter is nothing compared to this!

[bluemax]

It seems like all Daeny has said this season is how throne is her birthright and nothing about how she will be a good queen or change the world.  The show hasn't really been subtle about her change in attitude for awhile.

[Raist]

Daenerys is trash, been since the beginning (book or show). She's second only to Sansa.

[team filler]

PuppetBeast
juego de haciendas:

Stark= Los Estrada de Hacienda Las Nieves del Norte
Lannister= Los Linares de Hacienda Castillo de Roca
Baratheon= Los Barraza de Hacienda Tierra Tormentosa
Arryn= Los Arriaga de Hacienda Las Aguilas del Valle
Tully= Los Tellez de Hacienda Los Rios
Tyrell= Los Toledo de Hacienda La Rosa del Altiplano
Martell= Los Martinez de Hacienda Las Lanzas
Greyjoy= Los Grijalva de Hacienda Las Islas de Hierro
Targaryen=Los Torres de Hacienda Los Dragones

King's Landing= Guadalajara, Jalisco

Dothraki=Tribus del norte de Mexico

the night watch= la guardia charra

the night king: Tlatoani oscuro o algun antepasado de Trump

white walkers= momias de Tenochtitlan

fe de los siete: iglesia catolica

culto al dios ahogado: adoracion a Tlaloc

Señor de la luz: Huitzilopochtli

el dios de muchos rostros: santa muerte

Niños del bosque: Aluxes

mother of dragons= madre de las serpientes

the prince that was promised: El charro que fue prometido

[agrajag]