Author Topic: Baldur's Gate 1, man this game is old  (Read 4818 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Bebpo

  • Senior Member
Baldur's Gate 1, man this game is old
« on: June 07, 2019, 10:37:35 PM »
About 2 hours in on BG1 EE, about to end chapter 1 and start 2 at Nashkel. Have 6 people in my party but everyone's a freaking fighter or thief outside the necromancer. Where are my wizards?
Game is pretty alright so far except for some weird stuff in the combat, slowness and UI. Like you get to the first inn and that Tashern guy hits your 2 party members with a panic spell and they spend the next 5 mins running around like chickens with no control over them while he one-shots them with attack spells.

-Not really a fan of the combat essentially just being a bunch of people swinging and missing over and over until someone hits
-limited inventory suckssss; guess I won't grab and sell any of the loot from the dead because going back and forth to town is tedious
-couldn't figure out how to move inv item from one character to another for a while, was dropping stuff on the ground and having them pick it up
-I swear like 1/4th of the time so far has been walking back to quest givers. Wish there was a FF button. The map areas are pretty big
+exploring the map areas is cool, they're pretty big

So I was looking at a guide for what some of these stats do and figure out how to play and saw a list of the sidequests and I've already done half of the sidequests in the game in 2 hours? Uhhh, is BG1 really short like Fallout 1? Also do you actually get to max level in BG1's campaign? Because I am just hitting lvl.2 with my MC now. Rolling a Paladin for the DEF and healing spells.

BG2 is a lot better, right?

And what's the point of resting at inns when you have infinity resting anywhere with the rest button?

benjipwns

  • your bright ideas always burn me
  • Senior Member
Re: Baldur's Gate 1, man this game is old
« Reply #1 on: June 07, 2019, 11:05:28 PM »
Saw the popup for you playing this on GOG, didn't even realize I had added anyone on there :lol

The BG games are around 30-40 hours long, I think they get up to 60 or so with all the sidequests. The second game is noticeably longer IIRC. The max level in the BG games is like 20 or something, then the expansions take you up to 30 usually. It's a D&D second edition rules thing. Levels have like millions of XP required and stuff.

Rufus

  • 🙈🙉🙊
  • Senior Member
Re: Baldur's Gate 1, man this game is old
« Reply #2 on: June 07, 2019, 11:26:02 PM »
Nah, it's quite long. About 20-30 hours, I'd say.

I don't remember the quest density, but I'm pretty sure it railroads you to the finale once you solve the iron shortage or whatever. I don't remember where and how the expansion or Durlag's Tower (long challenge dungeon) fit into things, so you might hit another throng of quests again.

You tap out around level 6 or 7. It differs by class. You can't grind either, because there's an XP cap.

BG2 is bigger in every way and it's where a lot of Bioware character writing tropes were established. It's legendary for good reason, but it also won't really fix the things you have issues with now. Instead, you just become stupid powerful and get items like boots of speed which perma-haste you. :doge

---

Benji made me doubt myself and so I looked up some stuff. Levels top out at 8-10 with the expansion (7-8 in the base game). I have played it with the Sword Coast expansion for sure, but I can't remember it At. ALL. :doge

BG:EE goes from 30h to 85h accordig to HLTB. 👀
BG2:EE from 50h to 130h. 👀👀👀
« Last Edit: June 07, 2019, 11:36:26 PM by Rufus »

Bebpo

  • Senior Member
Re: Baldur's Gate 1, man this game is old
« Reply #3 on: June 07, 2019, 11:38:53 PM »
Yeah, I just said fuck it and got a save editor and increased movement speed for everyone until it moves like Pillars II on FF when walking around. It might have some effect on battle but /shrug
I found some gem/scroll bags to help with the inventory management, so that's nice.

I found a couple more potential party members but I can't tell if when you remove a party member they leave for good? So for now I'm not dropping the initial ones (Imeon who joins you at the start + 2 you find on first map + 2 you get at first inn). Found Neera & Garrick & The Dwarf guy who runs a shop and needs mercs.

I'm definitely liking the little stories and stuff I run into while exploring towns/fields. Best part for sure. Game just feels a little basic compared to modern crpgs.


20-30 hours is pretty short to me. The Pillars games (last crpgs I've played) were like 75-90 hours each with expansions. At 20-30 hours I'll probably stick with this.

benjipwns

  • your bright ideas always burn me
  • Senior Member
Re: Baldur's Gate 1, man this game is old
« Reply #4 on: June 07, 2019, 11:46:43 PM »
Rufus is right, even BG2 base is like level 15 tops, the expansion was what took it up to 30+. I remember that and I think 800x600 were the big selling points for it. :lol

Rufus

  • 🙈🙉🙊
  • Senior Member
Re: Baldur's Gate 1, man this game is old
« Reply #5 on: June 07, 2019, 11:52:38 PM »
Evil characters will ditch you if you become a shining example of virtue. Otherwise, don't remember. Would have to look at a guide. Usually, if you've done someone's quest, they won't abandon you if you park them somewhere, but I might be wrong about that.

I'm definitely liking the little stories and stuff I run into while exploring towns/fields. Best part for sure. Game just feels a little basic compared to modern crpgs.
You'll like BG2 more, for sure. As most everyone does. 
« Last Edit: June 07, 2019, 11:57:56 PM by Rufus »

benjipwns

  • your bright ideas always burn me
  • Senior Member
Re: Baldur's Gate 1, man this game is old
« Reply #6 on: June 08, 2019, 12:08:28 AM »
ya I think BG is the hardest/clunkiest of these games in general, I imagine it's more because it's the first one overall more than anything, it's not as polished, Icewind Dale similarly is more so than Planescape in most of the gameplay parts

Bebpo

  • Senior Member
Re: Baldur's Gate 1, man this game is old
« Reply #7 on: June 08, 2019, 12:15:31 AM »
I also keep forgetting that even though it's IE, it's not a Black Isle or Obsidian game. I'm so used to quests being dialogue driven with a million stat check choices and being able to talk your way out of everything that every quest being like "fight me!" and 3 lines of dialogue that all lead to fight me or leave is a little more simplistic for sure.

I'm still trying to figure out the battle system. Right now at lvl.1/2 since a lot of sword fighting misses, it seems like ranged spells/bows are better than swords outside 1-2 tanks keeping the enemy at bay.

Also the HP/death thing is weird. Like you swing/swing/swing and everyone is missing and then the enemy hits you once and you're 1 hit from death and if you die you're fucked and have to go DQ style to a church and revive. Like if death was going to be such a pain the ass, then maybe HPs shouldn't be so low that you die in 2 hits?

Oh and can you not make your own party members outside your MC? I thought it was gonna be like Pillars where you can go to an Inn and recruit/make a new character or manage your team.

Rufus

  • 🙈🙉🙊
  • Senior Member
Re: Baldur's Gate 1, man this game is old
« Reply #8 on: June 08, 2019, 12:30:21 AM »
Yeah, don't expect Obsidian-tier quest complexity. The writing is less dry in BG2, but quests won't branch much or have a lot of (or any?) skill checks in either BG or BG2. Companion quests are at ME2 levels. It's all about the character writing, from the villain to the party banter and even romance options.

BG2 will allow you to make an entire party from scratch. The Icewind Dales expect you to.

Oh, and save-scum. Just do it. There's no shame in it at all, especially while you're still weak. Early D&D is harsh.
« Last Edit: June 08, 2019, 12:37:44 AM by Rufus »

Bebpo

  • Senior Member
Re: Baldur's Gate 1, man this game is old
« Reply #9 on: June 08, 2019, 03:29:02 AM »
Ok, beat the mines and got to Ch.3, most of my team is lvl.2 with one lvl.3 at lvl.2/3 you start getting a few more HP which helps. Still can't hit shit with my main Paladin but I guess they tank ok.


My biggest gripe with BG1 is that the game has like a billion companions. Like every other character you meet to give you a quest wants to join your party to do the quest. But at least from what the game has told me I feel like the 2 good guy characters you go meet at the inn that old dead gramps in the intro referred you to are kind of part of the main quest line to discover what's going on. Like-wise the thief & necromancer guy had a quest that said they wanted you to take them to Nashlek (mining town) and it turned completed when I did...but nothing triggered so I dunno know if I'm supposed to be keeping them around too since they're here for the main story as well. Plus I like keeping the necromancer because he has identify spell and can identify all this loot for me. Which leaves one slot and I've just been keeping the main girl who first joins you. So like I have no room to recruit any of these dozens of companions or do their quests...

I finally ditched starting girl to pick up Xan at the heart of the mines because he starts with a glowing moonlight sword that only he can use. But now if I ever want to pick up the girl Imeon again I have to go 3 maps into the mines because she just stands there when I remove her wtf. I wish I could just warp all the party members I remove back to an Inn and then cycle party members at an inn.

I mean there are so.many.party.members in this game. I've already lost 2 just because they said hi I wanna do something evil and I said "i dunno about that" and then they said, ok bye and they show up in the journal as a finished quest -_-

As someone who OCD plays games and generally does all the quests, the way party members work in this really annoys me.

pilonv1

  • I love you just the way I am
  • Senior Member
Re: Baldur's Gate 1, man this game is old
« Reply #10 on: June 08, 2019, 05:02:56 AM »
BG2 is a lot better, right?

I actually preferred BG1 because 

Instead, you just become stupid powerful and get items like boots of speed which perma-haste you. :doge

BG1 & expansion were fun because if you took a wrong turn you could be wiped out instantly. BG2 was amazing but at some point I didn't fear anything, just my own time.

spoiler (click to show/hide)
Spent so many reloads trying to take down Drizzt
[close]
itm

Crash Dummy

  • teleiophile
  • Member
Re: Baldur's Gate 1, man this game is old
« Reply #11 on: June 08, 2019, 07:09:49 AM »
"you must gather your party before venturing forth"
 :rage :rage :rage :rage

thisismyusername

  • GunOn™! Apply directly to forehead!
  • Senior Member
Re: Baldur's Gate 1, man this game is old
« Reply #12 on: June 08, 2019, 08:45:56 AM »
-Not really a fan of the combat essentially just being a bunch of people swinging and missing over and over until someone hits

That's AD&D 2E baby. XD!

MMaRsu

  • Administrator
  • Senior Member
Re: Baldur's Gate 1, man this game is old
« Reply #13 on: June 08, 2019, 10:52:02 AM »
With all this crpg talk I had to go out and buy Divinity Original Sin 2 on Steam thanks to you guys
What

Himu

  • Senior Member
Re: Baldur's Gate 1, man this game is old
« Reply #14 on: June 08, 2019, 10:52:46 AM »
BG2 is my favorite crpg of all time. I don’t know what to tell you. Played these games in 2004 or so. They used to be cheap at Half Priced Books with other pc classics.
IYKYK

Rufus

  • 🙈🙉🙊
  • Senior Member
Re: Baldur's Gate 1, man this game is old
« Reply #15 on: June 08, 2019, 11:56:25 AM »
Oh, and save-scum. Just do it. There's no shame in it at all, especially while you're still weak. Early D&D is harsh.

Isn't level up HP random (I mean rolled like 1D6)? I might rememer incorrectly but I had to reload dozens of times when levelling up just to NOT get 1 HP level up... maybe they fixed that in EE?
Yup. There is an option to always gain the maximum possible.

Rufus

  • 🙈🙉🙊
  • Senior Member
Re: Baldur's Gate 1, man this game is old
« Reply #16 on: June 08, 2019, 11:58:43 AM »
-Not really a fan of the combat essentially just being a bunch of people swinging and missing over and over until someone hits

That's AD&D 2E baby. XD!
Bioware went above and beyond on that. Part of your swings have nothing to do with the rolls you're making. They're just there to look dramatic. They kept that going until Neverwinter Nights. :doge

I'm kind of itching to replay this game. I forgot so much of it. Maybe for good reason, but still... Fucking nostalgia. /shakefist
« Last Edit: June 08, 2019, 12:03:55 PM by Rufus »

Bebpo

  • Senior Member
Re: Baldur's Gate 1, man this game is old
« Reply #17 on: June 08, 2019, 03:59:58 PM »
Before I fell asleep last night I skimmed some NPC guides because I didn't know what I was supposed to be doing with all these recruitable chars. Like was I supposed to just stick with the starting 5? For how long? For instance Xzar & Montaro's quest is to get to Nashlek Mines, but they have no interaction once you get there and are they...done after that? Do they have further story involvement in the plot to keep them in the party? Same with J & K from the Inn. Etc...

So skimming some guides it's still kinda confusing on that point, but it seems more like just grab whoever you like and make whatever party you want and after the initial quest most characters don't have much interaction so do their quest and then ditch them if you want.

The one thing I did learn was a lot of these recruitable characters have really restrictive time periods where if you don't grab them and do their quest within 5-10 days they vanish.

Will keep this in mind from this point on. BG1 sounds like a game that's meant to be very replayable like Fallout 1 where you try playing with different party members each time.




At this point I need to learn/read up on the D&D 2E gameplay/rules because even having played lots of D&D inspired rpgs, never having played D&D I don't really get THAC0 (do you want lower or higher # to hit better?) and Armor Class seems like you want it to go down to 0 and then up to +1/+2, and I don't understand weapon damage that has dice rolls in them like a weapon stat says 1d10 or something and I just assume it means it hits for 10 damage? But some say like 4d6e or something and I don't know what the fuck that means. I also don't understand how spell resistance works and saving throws and all that stuff. So I'm just winging it on equip stuff that looks strong and attack.


My goal for BG1 is to get the hang of how BG plays so I know what I'm doing a more when I go into BG2. (I hear the new Siege of Dragonspear BG1 expansion should be played after BG2 because it spoils some BG2 stuff).

Bebpo

  • Senior Member
Re: Baldur's Gate 1, man this game is old
« Reply #18 on: June 08, 2019, 04:49:39 PM »
From what I understand the companions kinda remind me of Suikoden. They all have their little event when you get them, a few dialogues and a quest and then they just kinda come along for the ride.

Himu

  • Senior Member
Re: Baldur's Gate 1, man this game is old
« Reply #19 on: June 08, 2019, 04:49:49 PM »
Read the damn game manual. These games came with 100 page tomes and you were expected to read them before even playing the game or at least during it. Major lapse in the core experience of buying these games digitally when they were not designed for pick up and play, turning on the game and instantly knowing what to do or what’s going on.
IYKYK

MMaRsu

  • Administrator
  • Senior Member
Re: Baldur's Gate 1, man this game is old
« Reply #20 on: June 08, 2019, 05:30:12 PM »
So who's the best starting character and/or class in OS2?
What

naff

  • someday you feed on a tree frog
  • Senior Member
Re: Baldur's Gate 1, man this game is old
« Reply #21 on: June 08, 2019, 05:48:31 PM »
1D10 means "1 roll of 10-sided dice" so damage between 1 - 10.

then why not just say that yo

D&D rules in videogames is trash

 :rage

 :expert :paul
◕‿◕

Bebpo

  • Senior Member
Re: Baldur's Gate 1, man this game is old
« Reply #22 on: June 08, 2019, 05:52:17 PM »
Yeah Cindi, if I gotta read a 100 page manual, I'm not going to play Baldur's Gate. I've played enough crpgs over the years that I can wing it and just look up/ask questions on the stuff I don't know.

1D10 means "1 roll of 10-sided dice" so damage between 1 - 10.

4D6+4 means "4 rolls of 6-sided dice plus minimum 4" so damage between 8 - 28 (4*1+4 - 4*6+4).

It's basic math!!!!!1D1

It's the same damn thing in Pillars... how can you misunderstand it here? You finished all Pillars games.

Because in Pillars the weapons just say 8-28 or 1-10.

Bebpo

  • Senior Member
Re: Baldur's Gate 1, man this game is old
« Reply #23 on: June 08, 2019, 05:59:38 PM »
Anyhow, after I beat BG1 + Expac, I'm gonna play Planescape finally since I'm back in the hang of this stuff. Will be nice to go back to Black Isle. I'm just not a huge Bioware fan of their morality/reputation system.

We talk about how modern Bioware stuff is all dumbed down between GOOD/BAD and no grey area, but literally BG1's entire companion system is like 1/3rd are good chars, 1/3rd are bad characters, 1/3rd are neutral and everytime you do something good you get +1 rep and bad -1 rep and if you're too good the bad characters leave and if you're too bad the good characters leave and neutral characters just kinda hang.

To me that's just way too simplistic which is the same issue I have with modern (well not modern since the last Bioware game I played was ME2, so by modern I mean X360 gen Bioware) Bioware games. Compared to Black Isle/Obsidian's reputation systems it just feels shallow. And almost all the quest writing so far is the black & white good/bad for choices.

Like the writing is enjoyable but it's annoying that everytime I make a good choice in a quest my bad characters like Xzar bark "hey, can you stop being so good?" and vice-versa on bad choices I get a bark from Imeon going "hey can you stop being so bad?"; it's kinda...lame and doesn't feel immersive/realistic at all. Maybe BG2 improves on this part.

Bebpo

  • Senior Member
Re: Baldur's Gate 1, man this game is old
« Reply #24 on: June 08, 2019, 06:35:21 PM »
Ok, reading up and THAC0 & Armor Class make sense to me, although since everyone at lvl.1/2 is still like 20 THACO if fighting an armor class 0 enemy it means they will always miss unless they roll 20? So basically 5% accuracy. Wtf how is that even playable.

But, trying to read Saving Throws is hurting my brain:

Quote
When a creature attempts to make a save, it throws a d20 die and the number rolled is modified by the save modifiers that the source bears. For example, Chromatic Orb allows the target to save vs. spells with a +6 bonus, but a specialist mage's chosen spell school carries a -2 save penalty. The combined number is compared to the creature's ST scores; if less, the creature fails the save, if equal to or greater, they successfully make the save. (In this case d20 + 4 would be compared to the creature's ST.)

Ok, so if you are using Chaotic Orb and it's not a specialist school than it would be d20 +6 compared to creatures ST. So if you rolled a 10 and the creatures ST was 15, it would be 16 vs 15 and the creature would not be hit by the spell. But if it's in the school it's a + 4 so a 10 + 4 = 14 vs 15 and the spell would hit. Ok, I sorta get this.

Quote
There’re three ST outcomes:

Negates - save or else
1/2 - To implement save for half damage for most spells and items, the game divides the total number of dice thrown into two portions, and makes one of them no-save, the other savable negation, eg, Potion of Explosions with the description of 6d6 total damage (save vs. Spell for half) will have one no-save 3d6 part and the other save negs 3d6 part. For odd dice numbers, the no-save portion will always have 1 extra dice over the other, eg, Oil of Fiery Burning whose total is 5d6 (save vs. Breath for half) in the description will actually be separated into one no save 3d6, and one save negs 2d6, not exactly the half
None - No save is allowed by the source

Ok, I don't understand 1/2 save at all. 6d6 means rolling...6 die which are 6 sided? If all you're rolling is if a spell hits or not, why wouldn't it be 2 die (one die for hit or no hit, one die for 1/2 damage or no 1/2 damage).

Can someone explain to me how that 6d6 roll would actually work in a way for non-D&D people to understand? I feel like I'm back in fucking calculus.

Bebpo

  • Senior Member
Re: Baldur's Gate 1, man this game is old
« Reply #25 on: June 08, 2019, 06:47:52 PM »
Ok, I'm reading the original game manuals. They're pretty cool, but in some parts this game just seems complicated as hell.

Himu

  • Senior Member
Re: Baldur's Gate 1, man this game is old
« Reply #26 on: June 08, 2019, 07:22:24 PM »
Yeah Cindi, if I gotta read a 100 page manual, I'm not going to play Baldur's Gate. I've played enough crpgs over the years that I can wing it and just look up/ask questions on the stuff I don't know.

1D10 means "1 roll of 10-sided dice" so damage between 1 - 10.

4D6+4 means "4 rolls of 6-sided dice plus minimum 4" so damage between 8 - 28 (4*1+4 - 4*6+4).

It's basic math!!!!!1D1

It's the same damn thing in Pillars... how can you misunderstand it here? You finished all Pillars games.

Because in Pillars the weapons just say 8-28 or 1-10.

You said it was an old game. In old games like these crpgs reading the manual is REQUIRED. These are not games you can nor should wing.
IYKYK

Himu

  • Senior Member
Re: Baldur's Gate 1, man this game is old
« Reply #27 on: June 08, 2019, 07:39:31 PM »
Not only do the manuals contain crucial gameplay details they have deep lore. Reading the manual is a part of the experience of these games as they inspired by pen and paper rpgs. The crpgs you claim to have played, I bet they have one ounce the depth of the Baldur’s Gate games. These are deep, rich games. With something like Diablo you can get away with it. With KOTOR you can ignore the manual. The game is shallow as a kiddie pool. It has what, three alignments? BG has like 9! That is the difference you are playing with. Few crpgs if any have beaten the depth contained within the games you are playing now. It is just a part of the experience. They didn’t make nearly 200 page manual for no reason. A big thing to consider when playing these games is that they’re Dungeons and Dragons brought to video games. Anyone who has played D&D knows the importance of the manual and reading for lore and detail. It’s just a part of the game, for better or worse.

It’s great you’re giving them a chance but your NEED to know what you’re getting into!
IYKYK

Bebpo

  • Senior Member
Re: Baldur's Gate 1, man this game is old
« Reply #28 on: June 08, 2019, 08:27:33 PM »
Eh, ditched the evil duo Xzar & Montaron since my rep is pretty positive and picked up Minsc & Dhynaheir. Still don't have a healer outside my 2 paladins with their healing and healing potions. Messed around with everyone's equipment based on what I learned from the manual and people are doing better and hitting more. Got my THAC0 down to about 16-17 instead of 19-20. Using Imeon thief to scout ahead while invisible.

Heading up to the bandit camp now. Still not all that sold on this but it's enjoyable enough.

Anyone remember what the point of all the gems/rings/necklaces are for that you put in the gem bag? Are they just sellable loot for money?

Rufus

  • 🙈🙉🙊
  • Senior Member
Re: Baldur's Gate 1, man this game is old
« Reply #29 on: June 08, 2019, 09:56:27 PM »
Gems and jewellery are just for selling, yeah. There might be a side-quest that requires some. The only one I remember is from BG2.

Don't sweat the saving rolls. Just know that +n [to whatever ST] is a good stat to have on an item (in the calculation it's actually doing -n, but pfffffrrrrt).

Anyhow, after I beat BG1 + Expac, I'm gonna play Planescape finally since I'm back in the hang of this stuff. Will be nice to go back to Black Isle. I'm just not a huge Bioware fan of their morality/reputation system.
Aw ye, can't wait to see your reactions. I :heart P:T.

thisismyusername

  • GunOn™! Apply directly to forehead!
  • Senior Member
Re: Baldur's Gate 1, man this game is old
« Reply #30 on: June 09, 2019, 12:28:58 AM »
1D10 means "1 roll of 10-sided dice" so damage between 1 - 10.

then why not just say that yo

D&D rules in videogames is trash

...Because it makes fucking sense if you take two seconds of brain power, you jackass.

1(<-Dice-sides->)10 result anywhere from 1-10 is the result of a successful swing.

It's the fucking same, just shows how many dice (since the fucking table-top RPG's buff/nerf the dice pools with multiple of the same dice) to get a result which is better than showing 1-10 for a TTRPG based CRPG because of said buffing/nerfing the pool.

The dice pool is what is fucking determining the damage, not the fucking game designer (who only designed where the range is for the pool before buff/nerfs to said pool).
« Last Edit: June 09, 2019, 12:33:18 AM by thisismyusername »

Bebpo

  • Senior Member
Re: Baldur's Gate 1, man this game is old
« Reply #31 on: June 09, 2019, 01:41:17 AM »
1D10 means "1 roll of 10-sided dice" so damage between 1 - 10.

then why not just say that yo

D&D rules in videogames is trash

...Because it makes fucking sense if you take two seconds of brain power, you jackass.

1(<-Dice-sides->)10 result anywhere from 1-10 is the result of a successful swing.

It's the fucking same, just shows how many dice (since the fucking table-top RPG's buff/nerf the dice pools with multiple of the same dice) to get a result which is better than showing 1-10 for a TTRPG based CRPG because of said buffing/nerfing the pool.

The dice pool is what is fucking determining the damage, not the fucking game designer (who only designed where the range is for the pool before buff/nerfs to said pool).

Look, I get what you're saying but

Quote
Potion of Explosions with the description of 6d6 total damage (save vs. Spell for half) will have one no-save 3d6 part and the other save negs 3d6 part. For odd dice numbers, the no-save portion will always have 1 extra dice over the other, eg, Oil of Fiery Burning whose total is 5d6 (save vs. Breath for half) in the description will actually be separated into one no save 3d6, and one save negs 2d6, not exactly the half
None - No save is allowed by the source

6 dice rolls with 3 being no-save, and 3 being save negate...is that because the explosions hit 6 times? Or do they hit 3 times and there are 2 rolls for each hit?

It gets...confusing for people who've never touched DnD. I'm sure there are ways the above stat can be displayed in a simpler form like how 1d10 can just be displayed as 1-10 damage.

Bebpo

  • Senior Member
Re: Baldur's Gate 1, man this game is old
« Reply #32 on: June 09, 2019, 01:42:19 AM »
Anyhow, what I'm getting more out of this BG experience is that now I feel like I could join a irl D&D group and have some idea of how it works and be able to play. This game is essentially "Teach me D&D rules" the game.

Rufus

  • 🙈🙉🙊
  • Senior Member
Re: Baldur's Gate 1, man this game is old
« Reply #33 on: June 09, 2019, 11:04:15 AM »
6 dice rolls with 3 being no-save, and 3 being save negate...is that because the explosions hit 6 times? Or do they hit 3 times and there are 2 rolls for each hit?

It gets...confusing for people who've never touched DnD. I'm sure there are ways the above stat can be displayed in a simpler form like how 1d10 can just be displayed as 1-10 damage.
The wiki for that section is not as clear as it could be.

You roll 3d6 if you succeeded your saving throw, because Potion of Explosion only allows to save vs spell for half damage, i.e. half the damage dice are not rolled. Hence 6d6 if you don't succeed your ST, 3d6 if you do.

Some spells don't allow for ST (e.g. Melf's Acid Arrow). Some allow for half damage (e.g. Fireball, Potion of Explosion; all AoE's, I think). Some can be evaded completely (e.g. Blindness).

Oh, and you roll all damage dice at once. One explosion, regardless of the number of dice involved in the formula.

The descriptions will generally paint the image quite well. Flame Arrow for instance:
Quote
This spell enables the caster to hurl fiery bolts at opponents within range. Each bolt inflicts 1d6 points of piercing damage plus 4d6 points of fire damage. only half of the fire damage is inflicted if the creature struck saves vs. Spell. The caster receives one bolt every 5 levels beyond the 5th (2 bolts at 10th level, 3 at 15th level, etc.). All of the bolts will streak toward the target of the spell.
https://baldursgate.fandom.com/wiki/Flame_Arrow
« Last Edit: June 09, 2019, 11:23:35 AM by Rufus »

Bebpo

  • Senior Member
Re: Baldur's Gate 1, man this game is old
« Reply #34 on: June 09, 2019, 12:43:28 PM »
Yeah, that description is pretty good.

Bebpo

  • Senior Member
Re: Baldur's Gate 1, man this game is old
« Reply #35 on: June 09, 2019, 03:31:13 PM »
I don't think I have that. My one wizard keeps picking up spells but it just using magic missile really.

Oh and I beat the bandit camp and got to ch.4 last night. I guess I'm like halfway because I think it's 7 or 8 chapters. I've been missing a lot of the sidequests though (because some are pretty tedious and backtracking is boring in this) so my party is only lvl.3 with Imeon at lvl.4 since she gains xp faster for some reason. Probably a little underleveled.

For BG2 I plan to try to do all the sidequests I can, but for BG1+Xpac I'm just kinda speedrunning to beat it in a week or two and learn the ropes. I don't dislike it but I don't really love any aspect of it. There's times I feel I'm getting into it and then there wil be some tedious/annoying bit that burns me back out of it. Story's kinda minimal and the companions don't do much talking. I thought I installed the BG1 NPC pack that makes them have more character but I don't really notice it.

Himu

  • Senior Member
Re: Baldur's Gate 1, man this game is old
« Reply #36 on: June 09, 2019, 03:49:35 PM »
Magic missile and fireball are D&D mainstays. Especially magic missile.

There’s even a meme.

IYKYK

Bebpo

  • Senior Member
Re: Baldur's Gate 1, man this game is old
« Reply #37 on: June 10, 2019, 12:46:56 AM »
Got to Chapter 5, heading to Baldur's Gae city.

I like the game at this point but I hate the party member setup. Ok so I have:

MC - Paladin, uh I tank and heal a little but mostly just suck
Imeon - My main thief/trap detector/bow & arrow
J & K - The two starting people are both tanks, and pretty much hold the line and get hits in with good HP pools and alright defense. I like that J is a multi-class priest and can heal a bit too and buff her DEF
Minsc & Dynarhaes - come as a combo like half the party members. Dyna is my main wizard and I've had her memorize like a million spells and she is useful as the wizard doing debuffs and attack spells, Minsc is a decent attacker and if I give him a bow he is a decent 2nd archer

Now if I could I would throw Khalid & Minsc off a fucking cliff to free up those 2 spaces. But Jhaeres or whatever is my main good tank and has slight heals and Dyna is my main wizard and both are chained to the other characters so I'm stuck with them.

The problem with that setup is I DO NOT HAVE A HEALER. I mean my Paladin has a couple minor heals and Jhaeres has a few minor heals but otherwise I'm just like "try not to get hit everyone and down healing potions if you do" and that's about it. 

And at the same time I haven't even run across a recruitable NPC that is a priest healer character for GOOD (since my party rep is like 20 max goodness). So I don't even know where I'm supposed to find one. I guess if I did I could ditch J & K and have Minsc sorta 2nd tank or recruit another tank or a 2nd wizard (Neera added in the EE seems like a good wizard?).

I just wish I could go to an inn, pick my party member team out of selectable ones either pre-made or ones I just make myself and make the team setup I want. I feel like if I restarted BG1 and read an NPC guide and made up my team of who I want before I even started playing it'd go a lot better. Either that or I'd run the same team but make my MC a healing druid/priest. Miss that respec.
« Last Edit: June 10, 2019, 01:15:47 AM by Bebpo »

Bebpo

  • Senior Member
Re: Baldur's Gate 1, man this game is old
« Reply #38 on: June 10, 2019, 12:58:42 AM »
Hmmm, apparently Branwen (cleric) and Yeslick (Fighter/Cleric) would be good substitutes for J & K to get a little more healing in.

But I flooded the mine in the end of Ch.4 and...Yeslick was not in the room he was supposed to be so I never met him and I guess he's dead and flooded now :| I was in that room he's in because I met the slave guy and gave him 100 coins to leave with all the slaves...but there was not dwarf Yeslick in there...wtf.

Anyhow googling says that most people survive with Jaheries person being their main in-battle healer + potions, so I guess I can keep winging it with my team...

Bebpo

  • Senior Member
Re: Baldur's Gate 1, man this game is old
« Reply #39 on: June 10, 2019, 01:08:00 AM »
Actually just checked and Yeslick was there. Dunno how I walked right by him. But if I pick him than J & K both drown and die permanently :| Will just stick to the starting team.

Eh, at the end of the day it doesn't really matter. I'm almost certain the NPC Project mod I installed didn't install right and none of my companions have stopped to have a single conversation with me the whole game so far. The companions are nothing more than a picture and a voice line or two and 1 quest at the start when you get them. Most empty party members I've ever seen in an rpg. Like what is the point of 25+ recruitable party members when they are barely a character.

It sounds like BG2 fixes this and makes them more like Pillars where they actually stop you at a times and have conversations. I really just want to get to BG2. Do I even need to play the Tales of Sword Coast expansion for BG1 to understand BG2? If I can skip it I'll just beat BG1 vanilla and then skip to BG2. I'm not even gonna import my save because my MC sucks and all the party member choices suck so I'd rather just start fresh in BG2.
« Last Edit: June 10, 2019, 01:14:48 AM by Bebpo »

Himu

  • Senior Member
Re: Baldur's Gate 1, man this game is old
« Reply #40 on: June 10, 2019, 02:10:23 AM »
BG2 is my all time favorite crpg. Only thing that comes close is New Vegas.

And like Borys said team Jaheira.
IYKYK

Bebpo

  • Senior Member
Re: Baldur's Gate 1, man this game is old
« Reply #41 on: June 10, 2019, 02:18:25 AM »
Yeah, sounds good. Minsc has good HP & hits hard when he hits. I was pushing him back to archer because right now I essentially have 4 tanks wailing and missing on the enemies while my archer & wizard hit more often. So having a second archer generally means more hits.

I know people like Minsc but all he does is shout the same dumb line at the start of every battle and never really talks so I don’t get it. When you talk to teammates you get like 6 choices and most have a 1-2 line response and then charm gives a one paragraph background and that’s all you get from these people. I’m a story/character driven rpg player and I just need more character to the characters :|

The plot is kind of funny in that so far you just go kill one bad guy and pick up a letter from his boss and then go kill his boss and pick up a letter from his boss and then go kill his boss and then..lol

Idk maybe I’ll import my character but I made the same mistake in Pillars 1 of making my MC a tank. These games give you plenty of meaty tank characters. Probably better to spec your MC as a damage dealer or healer. In Pillars 2 I did that and was a psychic gunner with stun locks & debuffs & damage spells. Was much more fun. I like that Pillars 2 let you keep your choices but respec your class entirely. Just not sure I wanna be stuck running a zzz Paladin in BG2 though I read in D&D rules I’ll start getting Priest spells at lvl.9 aka BG2 so maybe it’ll open up. I could also dual-class my MC but not sure how that works here.

Bebpo

  • Senior Member
Re: Baldur's Gate 1, man this game is old
« Reply #42 on: June 10, 2019, 02:24:23 AM »
One problem I have with Jaheira is she’s the first to die most of the time. She has good HP but she seems to suck at evading with good armor. I have her use bless at the start to buff but if she’s getting beat up, by the time she gets minor heal off on herself or a potion she is losing more HP than gaining.

Then again she has some lvl.2 spells and one is barkskin so I should try to have her buff that early. Also her partner K guy has Defend mode and maybe if I have him defending her while she & minsc & MC tank and buff while wizard debuffs and Imeon rains archer bolts it’ll work pretty well.

Also fuck traps in this game, Imeon with find trap mode doesn’t see them until she runs into them half the time and trap effects last forever. I get in a random encounter and trigger a web hold trap on my party afterwards when trying to leave the map and I pick up my phone and read some threads for minute or two until I can actually control my characters again.

Bebpo

  • Senior Member
Re: Baldur's Gate 1, man this game is old
« Reply #43 on: June 10, 2019, 02:31:21 AM »
I also hate when you’re playing with team good and you run into evil characters that are interesting. Like on the way to the mines I ran into the evil bard who wants to go kidnap some royal’s niece and idk that sure sounds more interesting than anything I’m doing plot wise atm, but bringing him on to do the quest causes all sorts of issues with my party setup and rep.

It’s like I realized that BG1 has a ton of quests, it’s just that half the quests or 2/3rds the quests in the game are character quests that you have to take the character along to do them. So if you have a set party and don’t want to ditch anyone you basically miss half or more of the quests in the game. Probably a lot of xp too!

I guess the opposite way to do that is to keep 1-2 slots always open and every time you meet a recruitable NPC with a quest, you recruit them, do the quest and then ditch them for the next recruitable and do their quest. I kinda wish you could do some of these quests without having to take the character! I’m doing most of the quests from normal non-recruit NPCs since I don’t have that dilemma.

pilonv1

  • I love you just the way I am
  • Senior Member
Re: Baldur's Gate 1, man this game is old
« Reply #44 on: June 10, 2019, 06:04:55 AM »
Also fuck traps in this game, Imeon with find trap mode doesn’t see them until she runs into them half the time and trap effects last forever. I get in a random encounter and trigger a web hold trap on my party afterwards when trying to leave the map and I pick up my phone and read some threads for minute or two until I can actually control my characters again.

Pretty sure that's one of the reasons I went with a Thief as my main the first time I finished it. Ended up with myself, Minsc, Edwin, Jaheria and DJ Khalid IIRC. Possibly Dynaheir.

This thread and reading the wikia is making me want to play it again. Not sure it will feel the same if I'm not constantly changing CDs though
itm

Bebpo

  • Senior Member
Re: Baldur's Gate 1, man this game is old
« Reply #45 on: June 11, 2019, 02:48:59 AM »
Got to Baldur's Gate. Took my time in the area or two on the way to the city doing quests. City is HUGE. Explored out the first area you enter and called it good for the night. Gonna take a while to just explore out the whole city. Reminds me of the main city in Pillars 1 which obviously was inspired by the BG city. Team just hit lvl.5 across the board, starting to get some better gear/spells. Oh and when running across recruitable characters now I've started saying "yes, join me", dropping Imeon, and then I talk through their dialogue choices and learn a little about them and then I ditch them on the spot and re-grab Imeon. At least finding out a little about them.

Definitely enjoying the city exploration and dialogues. Talking to every npc and stumbling across quests chains and factions and stuff. While the combat and a lot of the quest design feels dated imo, the city exploration part feels pretty much as good as modern games.

So since the city is very, very big, does Baldur's Gate 2 use the city as well?


Also biggest pet peeve in this game is every fucking time I click for my party to move the main character says ON IT LIKE AN ORC or ITS IN THE BAG. Like I hear those two lines about 100 times an hour. Who thought having them bark every time you click a new spot to move makes any sense at allllll omgggggg

Bebpo

  • Senior Member
Re: Baldur's Gate 1, man this game is old
« Reply #46 on: June 11, 2019, 02:54:50 AM »
No, BG2 uses a different city :(

Ok, then Baldur's Gate (the city) will definitely be one of, if not the, high point of BG1.

Rufus

  • 🙈🙉🙊
  • Senior Member
Re: Baldur's Gate 1, man this game is old
« Reply #47 on: June 11, 2019, 02:57:37 AM »
BG2 starts in Amn, which is also a huge city. It's overwhelming and you will spend a very large chunk of the game there.

You should be able to tone down (or even turn off, I forget) the barks in the options. It's under "Feedback", I believe. Nope, it's in sound. 🤦‍♂️ Selection and command sounds. Feedback is about combat text and such.
« Last Edit: June 11, 2019, 03:14:17 AM by Rufus »

Bebpo

  • Senior Member
Re: Baldur's Gate 1, man this game is old
« Reply #48 on: June 12, 2019, 02:06:45 AM »
Turning off command barks is nice. Explored half the city and then accidently triggered ch.6 which warped me back to Candlekeep so I reloaded my last save to finish up exploring the city and finishing the sidequests. Then will go to ch.6.

The questing in the city, having done a good amount of it now, is ok but definitely quest complexity/writing-wise the quests don't really hold a candle to Obsidian writing. Still pretty fun.

Bebpo

  • Senior Member
Re: Baldur's Gate 1, man this game is old
« Reply #49 on: June 12, 2019, 03:57:27 AM »
Played a little more and ended up running into the YOUR PARTY IS POISONED quest. Didn't think it was real so told the guy to fuck off but then checked online if my party really was gonna die in 10 days so I don't waste a dozen hours of game in the meantime and oh shit you do game over lol, so I went and did the quest and it was pretty fun.

Bebpo

  • Senior Member
Re: Baldur's Gate 1, man this game is old
« Reply #50 on: June 12, 2019, 11:39:01 AM »
Game's pretty good, huh? For being the first BioWare IE title. Preceding all Dragon Ages, Planescape Torments and Mass Effects.

Yeah, I mean I see where all this stuff came from and I appreciate that BG was doing a lot of groundbreaking when it came out.

It's definitely clicking more and I'm enjoying it. Started reading the lore books last night and I probably will at least check out the expansion area before going past the point of no return. I hadn't messed around with stealth much until Baldur's Gate city where I had to infiltrate the Iron Throne HQ and I had Imeon stealth and go solo up to the top floor and get the plans and stealth back down. Was pretty fun.[/quote]

Quote
D&D is pretty good, huh? THAC0, Dice Rolls, memorizing spells, +1/2/3 enchantements etc. It all makes sense.

Haha, yeah I don't know about this yet. It's ok but I feel like everything D&D is doing gameplay-wise, Pillars of Eternity with their fake D&D did better.

It's neat seeing where Dragon Quest's coffin-dragging to church revive death mechanic comes from though!

Also in old-school D&D like this how the fuck are you supposed to even use AoE spells like Fireball since they don't differentiate between friend & foe and the enemies will rush your tanks so if you fireball the enemies your tanks are going to eat the fireball??

Quote
If you want to play the best turn-based, isometric, D&D title please buy Temple of Elemental Evil. It takes the awesome D&D rules and IE's RTwP combat, blends it, and outputs pure turn-based bliss. Heavily recommended but mind you it is 100% dungeon crawler (almost no questing/ talking IIRC but has some great puzzles).

For reference:

- Baldur's Gate = 50% talking, 50% fighting
- Icewind Dale = 10% talking, 90% fighting
- Planescape Torment = 90% talking, 10% fighting
- ToEE = Icewind Dale

Yeah, I own all the IE games on GoG because I've been wanting to play the ones I haven't yet at some point. Lore-wise, do all of these take place in the D&D universe lore? I feel like Planescape is a separate thing, right?

I'm actually more excited about BG3 now because I feel like I'd probably enjoy this D&D combat more if it was true turn-based and not all this swing, swing, swing and everyone is missing until they hit and you lose 20 HP in one attack.


Since FF14's new expansion is out in like 16 days, for now just gonna finish up BG1, World of FF (which is great), and Super Robot Wars T. After done with FF14 in a couple months will do a Planescape & BG2 run and then I'll see about playing other IE stuff after. Plus I wanna play Divinity OS1 & 2 before BG3 comes out.

Rufus

  • 🙈🙉🙊
  • Senior Member
Re: Baldur's Gate 1, man this game is old
« Reply #51 on: June 12, 2019, 01:51:29 PM »
Also in old-school D&D like this how the fuck are you supposed to even use AoE spells like Fireball since they don't differentiate between friend & foe and the enemies will rush your tanks so if you fireball the enemies your tanks are going to eat the fireball??
Do it early, before they've lost any health.  :cody
Proper solution: Cast Protection from Fire on them.
Actual solution: Quickload, then fire into the fog of war to begin the fight. :itagaki

Yeah, I own all the IE games on GoG because I've been wanting to play the ones I haven't yet at some point. Lore-wise, do all of these take place in the D&D universe lore? I feel like Planescape is a separate thing, right?
Planescape is odd, but it's still in the D&D multiverse. You go to the place where some of the demons you can summon in other D&D games come from, for instance. Most of it takes place in Sigil, a hub city at the center of all the planes. The prime material plane (?) is the one where most "high fantasy" D&D takes place in. Every alignment has it's own plane, I believe.

I'm actually more excited about BG3 now because I feel like I'd probably enjoy this D&D combat more if it was true turn-based and not all this swing, swing, swing and everyone is missing until they hit and you lose 20 HP in one attack.
Temple of Elemental Evil is about as faithful as it gets. That will be your test.
spoiler (click to show/hide)
I couldn't stand the pace. :doge
[close]

Bebpo

  • Senior Member
Re: Baldur's Gate 1, man this game is old
« Reply #52 on: June 14, 2019, 03:59:29 AM »
Finished all the sidequests in BG city, next up going to finish the old ch.1-4 sidequests I didn't do and finish exploring all the fields so I'm pretty much 100% before going to candlekeep since I saw something that said it's basically a point of no return and story-heavy from that point to the end. Part is a few xp away from hitting lvl.6, finally starting to get some good THACO and getting the hang of fireballing all enemies. Combat is starting to get better!

The thing is that back when I was doing ch.1-4 I didn't feel like bothering to do all the sidequests and exploring out all the wilderness maps since I wasn't feeling the game a ton. Now that I'm pretty into it I'm excited about doing that stuff and want to do everything haha. I guess I even should go and do the expansion area? Funny how perspective changes when the game becomes a lot better. BG1 really should've gotten to the main city quicker.

Bebpo

  • Senior Member
Re: Baldur's Gate 1, man this game is old
« Reply #53 on: June 14, 2019, 04:31:04 AM »
Worse than gather your party is trying to go in and out of doors when your party blocks all the door entry trigger area with their selections.

Reminds me of the old assassin creed games where trying to go into windows instead of climbing around them drove you nuts.

Bebpo

  • Senior Member
Re: Baldur's Gate 1, man this game is old
« Reply #54 on: June 14, 2019, 04:32:58 AM »
Also I definitely missed some questlines because there’s all these locked doors in towns/bg and playing a lawful good character I don’t want to lockpick and barge into people’s houses and fuck up my rep, so I’m missing questlines that start in those.

Rufus

  • 🙈🙉🙊
  • Senior Member
Re: Baldur's Gate 1, man this game is old
« Reply #55 on: June 14, 2019, 04:55:54 AM »
Ah, IE pathfinding. I liked to watch the inevitable disaster unfold on the map. Without fail, one or two people will arrive much later because they got stuck on a corner or, more commonly, one another.

For mopping up sidequests, I recommend:
http://www.gamebanshee.com/baldursgate/walkthrough/fullmap.php (can't click the labels directly, unfortunatley)

They number all the interesting spots on every screen of the game and are apparently even up-to-date with the enhanced edition. They list the rewards, too, so you can prioritize.
« Last Edit: June 14, 2019, 05:02:50 AM by Rufus »

Bebpo

  • Senior Member
Re: Baldur's Gate 1, man this game is old
« Reply #56 on: June 15, 2019, 04:08:04 AM »
So many wilderness maps in this game and they’re all huge and mostly empty :| I kinda hope BG2 is more maps with stuff and less empty wilderness fog of war to take 20-40 mins to walk around and then unlocks two more wilderness maps.


Cleared most of the exploring/sidequests I wanted to clear before endgame and got to expansion town and saved for the night. Will spend next few sessions on expansion areas before finishing up the main game.

Rufus

  • 🙈🙉🙊
  • Senior Member
Re: Baldur's Gate 1, man this game is old
« Reply #57 on: June 15, 2019, 04:14:09 AM »
BG2 is much more focused, yeah. Outside areas are still big, but there's not nearly as many and all of them are involved in major quests or extensive side content.

Bebpo

  • Senior Member
Re: Baldur's Gate 1, man this game is old
« Reply #58 on: June 15, 2019, 04:36:56 PM »
I always heard NWN1 isn't worth playing. I would like to play NWN2 at some point. I hear the expansion is one of Obsidian's better projects.
I still need to play KoTOR2 though, that and Planescape/BG2 are like highest priority for backlog crpgs for me.

I was supposed to go to a funeral today of a family friend, but came down sick this morning with a nasty cold so just gonna play BG1 and get a lot done today. Maybe get through the expansion areas and back to the main game.

Bebpo

  • Senior Member
Re: Baldur's Gate 1, man this game is old
« Reply #59 on: June 15, 2019, 05:29:39 PM »
Also I haven't brought this up yet, but in the BG community, the official name for the MC the Bhaalspawn and the games the Bhaalspawn saga is pretty spoilerish for new players. I mean one of the first books you get is the story of Bhaal taking over the throne of Death so you can kind of infer who the MC is just from being called Bhaalspawn which I guess is supposed to be a big twist at some point down the line.

Gorion's Ward is a lot better and non-spoilerish name for the MC!