Author Topic: The Economy |OT| Guess I'll Just Die?  (Read 37240 times)

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Propagandhim

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Re: Econ |OT| margin call your ex
« Reply #120 on: April 23, 2020, 10:36:04 AM »
So I have some bonds that my grandpa left me when he died a while back. I sold most of them to pay for grad school, but still have some. I don't really know anything about them other than I get like $1,000 a year check which is cool and they seem to go up and down slightly over the quarters.

Anyhow, my parents are telling me that during major recessions it's likely a lot of these small municipals will file bankruptcy and then all your bonds become $0 and you lose everything, so they're telling me to sell my whole portfolio now before that happens. It's down a little (like $3,000 or something from when they were purchased) and they're paying out at like 3-5% and won't be able to put it into anything right now beyond like 1% online bank. So will lose some money if I dump it all now.

Just looking for second opinions since I know nothing about bonds. I'm super financially conservative and don't invest at all so don't know much about this stuff.

So I have some bonds that my grandpa left me when he died a while back. I sold most of them to pay for grad school, but still have some. I don't really know anything about them other than I get like $1,000 a year check which is cool and they seem to go up and down slightly over the quarters.

Anyhow, my parents are telling me that during major recessions it's likely a lot of these small municipals will file bankruptcy and then all your bonds become $0 and you lose everything, so they're telling me to sell my whole portfolio now before that happens. It's down a little (like $3,000 or something from when they were purchased) and they're paying out at like 3-5% and won't be able to put it into anything right now beyond like 1% online bank. So will lose some money if I dump it all now.

Just looking for second opinions since I know nothing about bonds. I'm super financially conservative and don't invest at all so don't know much about this stuff.

 

If it were me, I'd hold onto them.  I think the muni market will hold up.   In general, municipals act as a buffer against equity volatility.  There's been increased attractiveness of municipal bond yields after taxes, relative to Treasuries during the increased market activity of the pandemic.  The conventional wisdom is that muni's benefit from a flight to safety, that muni bond issuers are equipped to deal with the challenges of normal credit cycles, and Treasury yields being driven lower is an indication of that 'flight' happening. A municipal/Treasury ratio above 100% indicates investors should strongly favor municipal bonds over Treasuries and the Muni-Treasury ratios remain significantly higher than their historical averages (there are a lot of numbers  to sift through here over different periods of time etc. but we'll leave it at that).   Also, municipal governments have used the longest economic expansion on record to shore up their balance sheets and rainy-day reserve funds with high tax receipts - In fact, states began the coronavirus crisis with record-level reserves.   

Your parents reservations aren't exactly wrong though: A recession will reduce most tax and fee revenues pledged to bondholders, and municipal bonds tend to be sensitive to issuer rating downgrades.  As this corona stuff keeps goes on, everyone does anticipate disruptions and downgrades.  Again, State and local govt's have historical levels of cash-reserve funds, and the federal gov't taking up a higher share of things like Medicaid to soften the blow to states should help, too.  Sales and income taxes decline in economic recessions - and of course people aren't going out and buying as much stuff right now.  As layoffs begin, income tax revenue will suffer too.  But states and municipalities have the authority to raise taxes, tap reserves and cut expenditures, allowing them to ride out a downturn better than most. 

I mean, it's only $1000 a year - you're not going to really feel any impact if anything does happen.  Also, try to find a competing perspective, I don't want to actually have an influence on your financial decisions because of my dumb opinions.   :lol
« Last Edit: April 23, 2020, 10:40:09 AM by Propagandhim »

Nintex

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Re: Econ |OT| margin call your ex
« Reply #121 on: April 23, 2020, 12:17:46 PM »
So I have some bonds that my grandpa left me when he died a while back. I sold most of them to pay for grad school, but still have some. I don't really know anything about them other than I get like $1,000 a year check which is cool and they seem to go up and down slightly over the quarters.

Anyhow, my parents are telling me that during major recessions it's likely a lot of these small municipals will file bankruptcy and then all your bonds become $0 and you lose everything, so they're telling me to sell my whole portfolio now before that happens. It's down a little (like $3,000 or something from when they were purchased) and they're paying out at like 3-5% and won't be able to put it into anything right now beyond like 1% online bank. So will lose some money if I dump it all now.

Just looking for second opinions since I know nothing about bonds. I'm super financially conservative and don't invest at all so don't know much about this stuff.
Unless you're really short on money now I would keep it around. Those type of investments are usually for a longer term.
In a few years it's probably worth a lot more than dumping it all now.

Ok never mind

Quote
Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell on Wednesday insisted that flailing state and local governments should be able to “use the bankruptcy route” rather than receive aid from the federal government — signaling renewed opposition to a top Democratic demand for the next coronavirus relief package.

In an interview with conservative radio host Hugh Hewitt, the Kentucky Republican also expressed concern about adding billions more to the national debt in addition to the nearly $3 trillion Congress has already sent out the door to combat the economic and public health challenges of the pandemic.
I think that sooner or later Trump, the producer of LEGO The Movie and Mitch will clash over the spending.
Trump will spend whatever he thinks is needed to save his election or at the very least end with a higher DOW than Obama.

Mitch and the House Republicans are in this for the long haul. Once they realize that keeping the brrrrr going is like masturbating into a forest fire (rip james) they will opt for more targeted bailouts.
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Propagandhim

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Re: Econ |OT| margin call your ex
« Reply #122 on: April 23, 2020, 12:38:15 PM »


Mitch and the House Republicans are in this for the long haul. Once they realize that keeping the brrrrr going is like masturbating into a forest fire (rip james) they will opt for more targeted bailouts.

McConnell is a senator from Kentucky.  That entire state's existence is one long brrrrrr from the federal government. 

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Re: Econ |OT| margin call your ex
« Reply #123 on: April 24, 2020, 09:46:21 AM »
https://twitter.com/ReformedBroker/status/1253674434659041280

Move your shit into a storage unit, buy some pizza and booze and go live with the parents.

Nintex

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Re: Econ |OT| margin call your ex
« Reply #124 on: April 26, 2020, 06:39:05 AM »
So on the backdrop of all this the Eurobonds fight continues.

The Dutch are appalled that Spain demanded an apology from our Prime Minister for blocking Eurobonds.
A prominent member of the Dutch labour party and former minister has argued in an op-ed in our biggest newspaper that if the Italian and Spanish don't drop their Eurobonds we should do what Macron and the Italians said which is to leave the Euro to those in favor of Eurobonds. We would remain an EU member but wouldn't share the same currency as taking on the debt of Italy and Spain directly is not an option.

This would be the best outcome. The southern countries can share their debt and assuming they pressure Merkel with 'ze War' the Germans will pay for the party.
Meanwhile we stay in the EU like most Scandinavian countries and all trade and commerce will continue. Our new currency would in fact be more valuable than the Euro (much like how the Guilder was coupled to the Deutsche Mark but less volatile).

Economists are proposing a test, to issue a 30 year bond of our new currency to test the waters and see if investors will indeed bite as predicted.
Although they admit that it could signal to the markets that the EU would completely unravel so they'd rather have Merkel come out in support of Eurobonds so we are the only remaining rebel in the block.
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Propagandhim

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Re: Econ |OT| margin call your ex
« Reply #125 on: April 26, 2020, 09:46:03 AM »
A universal European currency is a mistake, but it's hard to know what to do next.  I'd be interested to see the Dutch experimenting with leaving if they think they're so burdened with the 'dumb' and 'lazy' south.  Lord knows, the "PIGS" (they sure love being called that) are tired of hearing the sound of you guys crying.  A warning: an independent currency would include a bunch of externalities that would make their tax haven a little harder to maintain.

As for places like Italy and Spain....the euro was sold to Southern Europe as an uplift to prosperity, after lagging behind more successful northern economies for decades. The conventional wisdom was that by eliminating the exchange rate risk + lowering interest rates, a more competitive Southern Europe would emerge.  And when the Euro was introduced, there was an immediate but very short lived boost for these economies.  Countries like Spain/Italy/Portugal, which had historically high inflation did actually benefit from lower interest rates, but the cheaper financing also had the unintended consequence of taking away pressure, a sense of urgency, and mandate on governments to enact economic policy reforms and they stagnated as a result of that.  In Germany, and the small surrounding countries that integrated into its industrial economy, the reverse was true.  Don't underestimate the effect of having the sovereign ability to make sweeping economic reforms at notice: Germany was called "the sick man of Europe" in the early 2000s, then their economy took off following huge labor market reforms. They were once stymied by the strength of the deutsche mark, but now Germany benefits from the euro’s lower exchange rate, which made its goods more competitive abroad.  And that's really particularly true of the eurozone itself, which accounts for something like 40 percent of Germany’s exports.  So for decades, exporters from Southern Europe could undercut their German competitors on price -- no, not anymore.   That wouldn’t be such a problem if Germans reciprocated by buying their neighbors’ exports, but they don't.  Germans prefer to save, both in the public and private sectors, so the country has large trade surpluses with almost every country in the eurozone.  Instead of acting as the great equalizer, as the progenitors of the euro promised, the euro exacerbated Europe’s economic divisions and left some countries worse off.   In Italy, per/capita capita GDP in 1999, the year the euro was introduced, was about €1,000 above the eurozone average...by the end of last year, it had fallen to about €4,000 below the average. The economy has been stalled for 20+ years.

And you know, contrary to the perception you guys have of Italy today - they actually have run a small budgetary surplus, before interest payments, year after year.  But without economic growth, the country's debt (from a legacy of overspending in the 80s and 90s when their GDP overtook the UK ("il sorpasso") has remained high.  Relinquishing their financial sovereignty has given them very little to show for themselves.  At €2.5 trillion, Italy has the greatest debt burden of any country in the euro area except for Greece -- something like 140% of GDP. Germany’s debt is less than 60 percent of its GDP.  Rome can continue to finance itself for now because the ECB is buying its debt in the markets, keeping quiet on the interest it pays...that's not going to last forever.

So yeah, Rome wants the EU to issue common debt, but there's the question:  "what difference will it really make?"  Germans wonder, 'what's the point?' Bailing out a country like Italy would just bring them back to the pre-crisis point and it wouldn't solve the underlying issues that the Euro has been implicated in less successful economies.  A single currency would still have all the same problems and be just as exposed as it always was.  On the other hand, Italy isn't Greece - German industry is heavily engaged in the country, as are German banks.  Germans actually have an interest in uplifting the economy there, and can't fuck them over as badly as they did with austerity for the Greeks.  And in regards to Italy's massive debt: if it were to leave the Euro and bring back the lira, it'll just be servicing its euro debt with a weaker currency -- a much weaker currency.  That debt mountain is not something to gloss over for a Euro exit, no matter what il capitano Salvini says to his idiot followers.

This is hard.  Much harder than "My country is just so much better at policy and managing money than these dumb southerners". 
spoiler (click to show/hide)
PS:  Van Goghe had no artistic talent  and wouldn't even be noticed on Deviant Art today.  Starry Ass.
[close]
« Last Edit: April 26, 2020, 10:43:43 AM by Propagandhim »

Nintex

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Re: Econ |OT| margin call your ex
« Reply #126 on: April 26, 2020, 10:49:02 AM »
The issue has always been that Germany wants budgetary control and the French want their debt shared.
Neither country wants to bend on those issues so instead the Brussels bureaucrats believe more Europe or rather a Federal Europe is the answer to all their problems which has only distanced them further from the citizens.

The block keeps kicking the can down the road on pretty much all issues until countries decide to have a go at it themselves.
The only way Eurobonds will ever make it is when the EU has a common budget or Germany and others can impose austerity on Italy and France if necessary to balance the books.
Everyone knows that the southern states will never accept such harsh measures such as a higher retirement age (France is 62, Netherlands 68) and dealing with the 'grey' markets.
Greece has shown them what budget control from Germany and the Netherlands will look like and they didn't like it.

Especially Italy would lose a living standard that is far above what their economy could actually support if they would meet the current EU spending regulations (let alone if they wanted to balance the books).
That was true before and even more so during the Covid 19 crisis.
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Propagandhim

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Re: Econ |OT| margin call your ex
« Reply #127 on: April 26, 2020, 10:49:15 AM »
You're not supposed to like the post, you're supposed to argue with me.

edit:  Oh nvm

Propagandhim

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Re: Econ |OT| margin call your ex
« Reply #128 on: April 26, 2020, 11:11:11 AM »
The issue has always been that Germany wants budgetary control and the French want their debt shared.
Neither country wants to bend on those issues so instead the Brussels bureaucrats believe more Europe or rather a Federal Europe is the answer to all their problems which has only distanced them further from the citizens.

The block keeps kicking the can down the road on pretty much all issues until countries decide to have a go at it themselves.
The only way Eurobonds will ever make it is when the EU has a common budget or Germany and others can impose austerity on Italy and France if necessary to balance the books.
Everyone knows that the southern states will never accept such harsh measures such as a higher retirement age (France is 62, Netherlands 68) and dealing with the 'grey' markets.
Greece has shown them what budget control from Germany and the Netherlands will look like and they didn't like it.

Especially Italy would lose a living standard that is far above what their economy could actually support if they would meet the current EU spending regulations (let alone if they wanted to balance the books).
That was true before and even more so during the Covid 19 crisis.

France’s usual approach seems to be trying to push Germany to the limit, and then caving in to what Berlin wants.  As for Italy, while I think you're massively overestimating the impact of EU spending regulations on livings standards: If you're going to complain about anything, it should be that Italy is already the biggest beneficiary of the ECB bond-buying program, which has kept a lid on its borrowing costs. The central bank has bought more than 50 billion euros in assets via its new pandemic-related program over its first three weeks — many of them Italian government bonds.  But beyond that - they've avoided excessive deficit procedure, not because of the kindness of the EU's heart, but because despite massive public debt, they've been under the 3 percent deficit ceiling.  Their books are balanced.  They're following the rules.  They produce a budgetary surplus every single year, pre-interest payments.  They just can't get out of the debt mountain because the Euro doesn't serve them.  In 20 years, the average citizen lost 1/5 to 1/4 of their relative eurozone income and an export advantage b/c of the Euro being suited for the German and surrounding economies.  Italy’s economy is set to shrink by 9%+ this year.  Their living standards have never been worse, and it keeps getting worse.  And the real tragedy of this whole thing is that Vincent Van Gogh was a child molestor. 

« Last Edit: April 26, 2020, 11:49:23 AM by Propagandhim »

Nintex

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Re: Econ |OT| margin call your ex
« Reply #129 on: April 26, 2020, 12:00:34 PM »
In other economic news



Even Animal Crossing has gone into full stimulus mode.
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Pissy F Benny

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Re: Econ |OT| margin call your ex
« Reply #130 on: April 26, 2020, 12:17:54 PM »
nook directness :rejoice
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Flannel Boy

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Re: Econ |OT| margin call your ex
« Reply #131 on: April 28, 2020, 12:19:03 AM »
Oil tanking again.

What explains the stock market optimism?


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Re: Econ |OT| margin call your ex
« Reply #133 on: April 28, 2020, 12:36:13 PM »
https://ca.reuters.com/article/businessNews/idCAKCN22A26C

Quote
In the April 23-28 Reuters poll of 25 economists Canada’s economy was predicted to have contracted at an annualized rate of 9.8% last quarter and to shrink 37.5% this quarter.

Tripon

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Re: Econ |OT| margin call your ex
« Reply #134 on: April 28, 2020, 12:44:18 PM »
Oil tanking again.

What explains the stock market optimism?

In the U.S.? Major firms literally have an easy access to favorable loans that are easier to pay back via the FED.

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Re: Econ |OT| margin call your ex
« Reply #135 on: April 29, 2020, 08:59:11 AM »
1Q GDP annualized, QoQ: -4.8% vs. -4.0% expected


One quarter down, Shosta--but I feel good about quarter two!

Nintex

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« Last Edit: April 29, 2020, 04:39:23 PM by Nintex »
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Nintex

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Re: Econ |OT| CAPM Crunch
« Reply #138 on: May 05, 2020, 03:59:44 PM »
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Nintex

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Re: Econ |OT| CAPM Crunch
« Reply #141 on: May 09, 2020, 06:54:35 AM »
our government 2 months ago: "We will protect all the jerbs! If you take the stimulus money you can't fire anyone!"

our government today: "From June forward, you can take the stimulus and fire people to save the jobs of others"

 :money :success
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Pissy F Benny

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Re: Econ |OT| CAPM Crunch
« Reply #142 on: May 09, 2020, 09:31:14 AM »
dutch directness :tocry
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who is ted danson?

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Re: Econ |OT| CAPM Crunch
« Reply #143 on: May 09, 2020, 11:20:29 AM »
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-05-08/oil-crash-busted-a-broker-s-computers-and-inflicted-huge-losses

Quote
That could help Shah. The day trader in Mississauga, Canada, bought his first five contracts for $3.30 each at 1:19 p.m. that historic Monday. Over the next 40 minutes or so he bought 21 more, the last for 50 cents. He tried to put an order in for a negative price, but the Interactive Brokers system rejected it, so he became more convinced that it wasn’t possible for oil to go below zero. At 2:11 p.m., he placed that dream-turned-nightmare trade at a penny.

It was only later that night that he saw on the news that oil had plunged to the never-before-seen price of negative $37.63 per barrel. What did that mean for the hundreds of contracts he’d bought? He frantically tried to contact support at the firm, but no one could help him. Then that late-night statement arrived with a loss so big it was expressed with an exponent.

 :lol :lol :lol
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Nintex

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Re: Econ |OT| CAPM Crunch
« Reply #144 on: May 11, 2020, 01:08:17 PM »
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-05-08/oil-crash-busted-a-broker-s-computers-and-inflicted-huge-losses

Quote
That could help Shah. The day trader in Mississauga, Canada, bought his first five contracts for $3.30 each at 1:19 p.m. that historic Monday. Over the next 40 minutes or so he bought 21 more, the last for 50 cents. He tried to put an order in for a negative price, but the Interactive Brokers system rejected it, so he became more convinced that it wasn’t possible for oil to go below zero. At 2:11 p.m., he placed that dream-turned-nightmare trade at a penny.

It was only later that night that he saw on the news that oil had plunged to the never-before-seen price of negative $37.63 per barrel. What did that mean for the hundreds of contracts he’d bought? He frantically tried to contact support at the firm, but no one could help him. Then that late-night statement arrived with a loss so big it was expressed with an exponent.

 :lol :lol :lol
Poor james
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Tripon

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Tripon

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Re: Econ |OT| CAPM Crunch
« Reply #146 on: May 15, 2020, 07:05:55 PM »

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Re: Econ |OT| CAPM Crunch
« Reply #147 on: May 16, 2020, 10:39:20 PM »
So I was talking to a couple of friends - one is a chemical engineer and the other does traffic analysis - and the most amazing thing to me is that the work that's really most likely to die soon isn't unskilled work, it's white collar stuff. They both agreed without any hedging that their entire department could be completely automated. These are people with challenging jobs and a few years of experience. Can you guys imagine 75% of engineering jobs just disappearing? And being replaced by ML technicians with domain training. It's just crazy.

You guys are seriously overestimating the usefulness of current ML tech.

Yeah, my gut feeling is that anything which is an "art" is safe, but things which are fundamentally algorithmic but take a lot of years of training to do competently are vulnerable in the near future.

ML is the biggest art of all.

Though I do hope it can replace layers.  I think it's immoral for a government to create laws that are so complex they require skilled people to interpret them but do not offer this as a free survice.     

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Re: Econ |OT| CAPM Crunch
« Reply #148 on: May 16, 2020, 10:41:11 PM »
So I was talking to a couple of friends - one is a chemical engineer and the other does traffic analysis - and the most amazing thing to me is that the work that's really most likely to die soon isn't unskilled work, it's white collar stuff. They both agreed without any hedging that their entire department could be completely automated. These are people with challenging jobs and a few years of experience. Can you guys imagine 75% of engineering jobs just disappearing? And being replaced by ML technicians with domain training. It's just crazy.

You guys are seriously overestimating the usefulness of current ML tech.

Don't doubt the science of Marxism-Leninism.

Tripon

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Re: Econ |OT| CAPM Crunch
« Reply #149 on: May 16, 2020, 11:09:00 PM »
https://twitter.com/VanityFair/status/1261725309507907585

Shosta couldn't crush wall street's spirit.

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Re: Econ |OT| CAPM Crunch
« Reply #151 on: May 17, 2020, 01:10:04 AM »
I sold my bitcoins btw and made 400 usd :)

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Re: Econ |OT| CAPM Crunch
« Reply #152 on: May 17, 2020, 03:25:07 PM »
They're trying to convince Oregon to let them sell across state lines and expect the feds not to do anything? Sounds extremely questionable

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Re: Econ |OT| CAPM Crunch
« Reply #153 on: May 17, 2020, 08:21:02 PM »
Why would they need an excuse   ??? They don't want to give money to poor people

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Re: Econ |OT| CAPM Crunch
« Reply #154 on: May 17, 2020, 08:52:46 PM »
you guys are bullying me because it sounds like I don't understand the primary function of the state in capitalism :rage

The thing that's just fucking killing me every day is the total absurdity of the present situation, an absurdity that goes even farther than that demanded by its principal actors. Local acts of rationality summing up to the pursuit of irrational ends. There couldn't be anything more kafkaesque.

it's one thing to read a description of the world and another to sit past the event horizon and have your ego torn apart in a million different directions as psychic annihilation destroys society in a chorus of screams
https://twitter.com/Stephaniejing2/status/1262183452255719425

 :kermit
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Re: Econ |OT| CAPM Crunch
« Reply #155 on: May 17, 2020, 09:55:48 PM »
jerk off to some hentai, you'll feel better

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Re: Econ |OT| CAPM Crunch
« Reply #156 on: May 18, 2020, 10:25:07 PM »

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Re: Econ |OT| CAPM Crunch
« Reply #158 on: May 21, 2020, 11:22:52 AM »
Sell your expensive city real estate.

https://twitter.com/tobi/status/1263483496087064579

Tripon

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Re: Econ |OT| CAPM Crunch
« Reply #159 on: May 21, 2020, 11:56:43 AM »
Quote
Georgia’s early move to start easing stay-at-home restrictions nearly a month ago has done little to stem the state’s flood of unemployment claims — illustrating how hard it is to bring jobs back while consumers are still afraid to go outside.

Weekly applications for jobless benefits have remained so elevated that Georgia now leads the country in terms of the proportion of its workforce applying for unemployment assistance. A staggering 40.3 percent of the state's workers — two out of every five — has filed for unemployment insurance payments since the coronavirus pandemic led to widespread shutdowns in mid-March, a POLITICO review of Labor Department data shows.

Georgia's new jobless claims have been going up and down since the state reopened, rising to 243,000 two weeks ago before dipping to 177,000 last week. The state cited new layoffs in the retail, social assistance and health care industries for the continued high rate of jobless claims that have put it ahead of other states in the proportion of its workforce that has been sidelined.

Georgia, which began pushing to resume economic activity on April 24, presents an early reality check as the White House amps up pressure on governors to lift shutdown orders and President Donald Trump’s economic advisers predict jobless claims will nosedive after the reopening. The state’s persistent unemployment numbers suggest that government restrictions aren’t the only cause of skyrocketing layoffs and furloughs — and that the economy might not fully recover until consumers feel safe.

Georgia, one of the last states to impose widespread shutdowns, has loosened restrictions on a broad array of businesses and dine-in restaurants since its stay-at-home order officially expired on April 30. Only bars, nightclubs, theaters, live music venues and amusement parks remain fully shuttered through the end of May.

https://www.politico.com/news/2020/05/21/georgia-reopening-coronavirus-jobs-273070



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Re: Econ |OT| Batten down the tranches
« Reply #162 on: May 21, 2020, 09:53:22 PM »
inshallah :rejoice
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Re: Econ |OT| Batten down the tranches
« Reply #163 on: May 21, 2020, 11:33:14 PM »
Local bbq joint I like to frequent has had to take brisket off the menu because prices have nearly tripled in the past few months. They're worried that pork might be going next. :fbm
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Re: Econ |OT| Batten down the tranches
« Reply #164 on: May 22, 2020, 01:25:29 PM »
We call it Transition to Greatness
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Re: Econ |OT| Batten down the tranches
« Reply #166 on: May 22, 2020, 11:45:09 PM »
Quote
https://twitter.com/dickophrenic/status/1263458506948182016
I bet mall mortgages are amazing, I've never thought about them before now.

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Re: Econ |OT| Batten down the tranches
« Reply #169 on: May 25, 2020, 03:59:34 PM »
https://twitter.com/CNN/status/1264968234417238017
These people are very uncreative.
Rent them out as:
- Covid shelters for doctors/nurses who want to protect their families
- Porn productions
- Political campaign offices
- temp housing for self-isolation
- Russian/CIA/Mossad spy safe houses
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Tripon

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Re: Econ |OT| Batten down the tranches
« Reply #170 on: May 27, 2020, 11:16:32 AM »
Quote
Fireworks sparked Wednesday morning on the Squawk Box set as CNBC anchor Andrew Ross Sorkin blasted his own colleague Joe Kernen for dismissing the severity of the coronavirus pandemic that has now killed 100,000 Americans. At one point, Sorkin accused Kernen of trying to help his “friend” President Donald Trump “every single morning.”

As the two discussed the recent stock-market gains, the segment grew increasingly heated as Kernen openly bashed Sorkin and “other smart people” for not being able to see why the market is rising despite the current poor state of the economy.

“Joe, you missed it a hundred percent on the way down and you missed 100,000 deaths,” Sorkin snapped back. “So we can have this debate back and forth and you can try to question the questions I’m asking.”

Kernen attempted to talk over Sorkin, prompting the usually mild-mannered business host to angrily interject.

“Hold on, hold on,” Sorkin shouted. “I’m not going to do this with you Joe! Every morning, you try to question the questions I’m asking—these are questions investors are asking every single morning. I’m just trying to get through some of this clutter. I may be right or wrong. Investors may be right or wrong. That’s what makes the market. It doesn’t make people good or bad or right to act the way you are. I’m sorry.”

After a dramatic sigh, Kernen began chiding Sorkin for scolding him as well as lecturing others over the pandemic, causing Sorkin to wave him off and tell him to read the news.

“I’m sorry?” Kernen asked, prompting an incensed Sorkin to exclaim: “No you’re not. No you’re not!”

At this point, Kernen began running down all the things his colleague “panicked” over, such as the virus itself, ventilators, and personal protection equipment, causing Sorkin to lose it.

“Joseph, you didn’t panic about anything,” he shouted as Kernen objected. “One-hundred thousand people died. One-hundred thousand people died, Joe, and all you did was try to help your friend, the president—every single morning on this show. You abused your position!”

Kernen, one of the few non-Fox hosts Trump grants interviews to, claimed Sorin was being “unfair” and that all he’s been trying to do is help “investors keep their cool and keep their heads, and as it turned out that’s what they should have done.”

“Do the news,” Sorkin growled back. “I was not arguing to go sell your stocks, Joseph! I was arguing about people’s lives. Do the news, I’m begging you to do the news, Joseph!”

Kernen, before getting to the news, got in the last word, saying the number of American deaths was terrible “but it was never going to be that we weren’t going to come back and return to normal,” insisting he wasn’t “trying to help Donald Trump.”
https://www.thedailybeast.com/cnbc-anchor-andrew-ross-sorkin-explodes-at-pro-trump-colleague-joe-kernen-you-abused-your-position

https://twitter.com/hmcghee/status/1265636177689882624

Nintex

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Re: Econ |OT| Batten down the tranches
« Reply #171 on: May 27, 2020, 03:46:17 PM »
Yup, Millenials are fucked.

It's going to be fun when the zoomer accountant asks: "So what about your retirement savings?"

"Savings?" :kermit
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Flannel Boy

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CatsCatsCats

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Re: Econ |OT| Batten down the tranches
« Reply #173 on: May 28, 2020, 11:23:24 AM »
Time to release the UBI

Nintex

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Re: Econ |OT| Batten down the tranches
« Reply #174 on: May 28, 2020, 04:55:57 PM »
https://twitter.com/SMerler/status/1265677998440812545

EU's latest wealth transfer plan is effectively death on arrival.
Dutch financial press and economists are calling on Italy to sell their gold reserves first.
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Flannel Boy

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Re: Econ |OT| Batten down the tranches
« Reply #175 on: May 29, 2020, 12:20:23 PM »
https://www.frbatlanta.org/cqer/research/gdpnow
Quote
The GDPNow model estimate for real GDP growth (seasonally adjusted annual rate) in the second quarter of 2020 is -51.2 percent on May 29
-51.2 Don't challenge shosta to a race. He'll cut off your legs just to be sure.

jakefromstatefarm

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Re: Econ |OT| Batten down the tranches
« Reply #176 on: May 29, 2020, 02:47:56 PM »
admire the push for degrowth :leon

Nintex

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Re: Econ |OT| Batten down the tranches
« Reply #177 on: May 29, 2020, 04:10:58 PM »
So has an economist made the case for riots shortening the recession yet?
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Tripon

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Nintex

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Re: Econ |OT| Batten down the tranches
« Reply #179 on: June 04, 2020, 04:41:50 PM »
Me too, I'll look into riots and arrests.  :lucas
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