hot take: action scenes are too good now

[Eschaton]

been thinking about this for a while now since I've been watching more 60s-80s action movies. maybe it's a hangover from all the shitty marvel movies but i miss jank ass actors and stunt doubles going at it. every single action movie or movie with action in it has these 35 layer scenes that do too much. that's nice too sometimes (john wick) but less is more. that old sinojank

[curly]

They've got higher production values now, I wouldn't call them good for the most part

[curly]

The virgin 100 million dollars to spend on CGI vs the chad 1 Chinese guy willing to get fucked up for his craft

[Phoenix Dark]

Fury Road really made me reconsider what I thought was good, modern action. The long shots and editing in that film still blow me away. I went back and watched some of the Bourne films (specifically the third one) and...wasn't impressed anymore. Not sure I can ever go back to "20 edits/cuts in a 30 second sequence" action scenes.

spoiler (click to show/hide)

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[nudemacusers]

Good art is borne from constraint.

[Nintex]

we need some john woo up in this thread

[Himu]

WHO WOULD WIN: live action remakes of animes with green screens and dozens of actors or one sword cut?

one of the GOAT movie duels

Also fight scenes in movies now are far too elegant and rehearsed. I love it in wuxia but that's because it's wuxia. But these days even Hollywood fights feel rehearsed almost like a dance more than a fight.

Compare.

[Phoenix Dark]

There's actually some physicality to the fight, vs it being two all-powerful dudes going at it nonstop until the end. A lot of 80s/90s action sequences had a general sense of exhaustion to them, like you weren't watching some superhuman who is impervious to basic shit like falling out of a moving vehicle/jumping through a window/fighting with a big ass sword/etc.

[jakefromstatefarm]

i think this take only works if you take elaborate choreography to be ‘good’. theres a whole generation of audiences that have no reference point for good action in film because everything is designed to suck the spontaneity out of a scene. even recent shit like john wick does this; look at that john woo scene nintex posted: theres 0 tension, you might as well be playing a corridor shooter. then look at the firefight in heat, that moment where the camera pans up and down w/ val kilmer as hes reloading is :gawd.

i watched that motorcycle chase sequence from T2 the other day for the first time in like 15 years and was floored by just how cool everything felt. everything breathes. analogous scenes nowadays wash over you with all the jump cuts and tight choreography, completely disengaging the viewer. unless theres some cool stunt shit, like that darth maul fight at the end of phantom menace, who cares?

[Dickie Dee]

A lot of 80s/90s action sequences had a general sense of exhaustion to them

The real GOAT fight scene:

[Himu]

The Matrix is still a gold standard for me.

[Himu]

One of my favorite aspects of Kurosawa's fight direction is the messiness of it. It completely lacks close ups a lot of the time. It's so far back and it feels like peering into the fight as an actual viewer from afar. I can't find clips, but one of my favorite cases was the raid on the bandit hideout in Seven Samurai.

But the final fight takes the cake. The ending with the kid on edge looking for for more bandits to kill, falling to his knees yowling in tears, mourning the man he looked up to being killed in battle is one of the most sobering experiences I've had while watching an action scene. The entire direction shows a clear salient effect on the nature of battle.

Rashomon's ending fight is a full embodiment of all of this.

[Phoenix Dark]

Imagine a modern Die Hard remake, where John McClain doesn't have to recharge his stamina bar by resting in random elevator vents and talking to Carl Winslow. The mere thought disgusts me.
 

[Joe Molotov]

Just look at the later-day Die Hard sequels, they're terrible.

[Himu]

Imagine a modern Die Hard remake, where John McClain doesn't have to recharge his stamina bar by resting in random elevator vents and talking to Carl Winslow. The mere thought disgusts me.
 

In the latest Die Hard, McClain is a fucking superman. One of the great things about the first few films was that he was a vulnerable every man.

[Mandark]

Certain amount of survivorship bias going on. Not everything was Kurosawa or the bike chase in T2.

https://www.dailymotion.com/video/x5xdfda

[Great Rumbler]

GOAT

[team filler]

live action and animated action merged, it wasn't for the better 

[team filler]

think I'd prefer hand drawn animated action scenes in live action movies to cg shitfests tbh 

[VomKriege]

They've got higher production values now, I wouldn't call them good for the most part

Pretty much this.
Works for lighting, grading and a lot of other aspects.

It's pure bias but something has been lost in translation with the digital. You can do a lot of great stuff with it, and I appreciate that. It's also a lot safer and is it really bad ? Overall I don't think it's on average better. In fact I think a lot of it is really unfocused and extravagant (not in a good way). Things got better as far as grading is concerned, I think artists became a lot more sensible with it after a decade of churning ugly shit just because they could. Hopefully will be true for VFX too.

[Great Rumbler]

Most of the big movies right now are just live-action 80s kids cartoons, not in a good way.

But ocassionally you get one that still looks really good, like Battle Angel Alita:

[Phoenix Dark]

I just want to take this moment to say the only MCU film I've seen is the first Iron Man. My dedication to true cinema and real action films is unquestioned.

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Unforgiven is still a 7/10
 

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[ToxicAdam]

I feel a lot of what you consider “good action” is dependent upon your emotional investment in the movie/characters.

It’s really rare for me to watch a bad movie that has amazing action scenes. If you’re not emotionally invested in the outcome or the stakes, then the action is just going to feel toothless. That’s the common knock on movies like Transformers or War of the Worlds.

Everyone carries on about the battle scenes in LOTR, but they are largely bland set pieces that are pretty pedestrian. But because people were so emotionally invested in the movie (deservedly so), then those scene resonate more.

[Mandark]

I just want to take this moment to say the only MCU film I've seen is the first Iron Man. My dedication to true cinema and real action films is unquestioned.

You should watch Winter Soldier.

[toku]

No one real answer but someone of you have touched on whats missing in a lot of AAA movies. You don't care about the characters so the action is weak, not enough use of practical fx or sets so you get lost in the action, nothing is grounded and also sometimes some actors just can't sell action. I think it was some of the into the badlands bts that talked about this but they were talking one of the things you learnin HK cinema is how to master your facial expressions during the fight. You learn to build a kind of fight charisma. You see that in a lot of the classic stuff Esch linked.


Lately I've been kinda nostalgic for the slow mo kick shit from the 90s. Van Damme as big as he was will always feel a little underrated to me. Like he could have been even bigger you know? A tinge of sadness in his career.

[toku]

No one real answer but someone of you have touched on whats missing in a lot of AAA movies. You don't care about the characters so the action is weak, not enough use of practical fx or sets so you get lost in the action, nothing is grounded and also sometimes some actors just can't sell action. I think it was some of the into the badlands bts that talked about this but they were talking one of the things you learnin HK cinema is how to master your facial expressions during the fight. You learn to build a kind of fight charisma. You see that in a lot of the classic stuff Esch linked.

I specifically referenced Highlander because I watched the movie with the SO yesterday (she hadnt seen it before, i hadnt seen it in like 10 years) and we were both struck by how narrow the movie is in terms of set pieces, scope, even characters developed but it just has dope aesthetics and character types, TBH the action is even pretty bad but The Kurgan and The Highlander rivalry is just so campy and enjoyable in its simplicity, you gotta love it. Love that 80s movie death grudge trope in action movies just like Bloodsport, or Terminator where the contradiction can only be resolved by direct struggle. I never want to see another joss whedon fail AIDS quipfest in my life.

It just hits every emotion man, thats what a good action movie does if we get real lol. Highlander you get the triple whammy because you have fucking Queen on the score like:



you hear that come in a little and you're just like fuck christopher lambert you alien sounding motherfucker i cant believe im gonna tear up over your goofy ass

[headwalk]

i know the "it's like watching a cutscene" is a hackneyed criticism at that point, but it still holds true for me. the point where i can almost hear the render nodes chugging away is when i mentally switch off.

fury road is the gold standard in how to have the most insane shit on screen and still feel rooted in physical reality.

[team filler]

[toku]

i know the "it's like watching a cutscene" is a hackneyed criticism at that point, but it still holds true for me. the point where i can almost hear the render nodes chugging away is when i mentally switch off.

fury road is the gold standard in how to have the most insane shit on screen and still feel rooted in physical reality.

I think it's a big part of why SE Asia/Gareth Edwards are the dudes being copied rn I think. They understand you can get crazy and fantastical with it, but you still have to sell the idea of bodies getting chewed up. Winter Soldier wouldn't be anywhere near where it is rn if Russo Bros hadn't seen The Raid a year prior:

[Himu]

My dad and I tuned into Highlander the tv show all the fucking time.

You know what I miss? Adult action like The Fugitive.

[Great Rumbler]

I'd almost forgotten about it, but Birds of Prey had some pretty decent action scenes with little CG:

[toku]

TBH i wonder if a lot of this is just that the B/C range of hollywood movies and TV seems to be dead and lives only on in the spectre of netflix and maybe that's really what I'm celebrating here. But even a lot of that stuff is overly refined and bland.

E: and like toku pointed out a lot of movies in this range are just being made in the third world now.

Like I think Ex? Said earlier, part of an element of good film making is working in a tight budget but this seems even doubly so for action? Even in HK where they can get money to shoot a flat out kung-fu movie their work culture is totally different. They're still gonna shoot it on the cheap and in lik 20 days lol.

A good western example of this is Scott Adkins and Avengement he did last year. It's probably the cheapest movie he's done even as king of martial arts dvd joints, but he's said they shot in like 17 days which was crazy for him as well. They basically had to find 3-4 locations, and start shooting immediately. The result is probably his best film and I'm a big fan of his work. It's easily his best actual acting he's ever done, but it's also the first time he's also done as much violence as well:



but again this is all an action movie needs to be, a tight 90 minute journey with a couple emotional beats behind the punching

[recursivelyenumerable]

is this really a hot take, thought it had been the standard film nerd line for a long time? anyway sorry everyone but I still like CGI vomit. physical reality isn't real anyway, as the matrix taught us, hence the floodgates irreversibly opening immediately after that film's release to gift us with endless raging rivers of sweet sweet cgi vomit.

[toku]

It just hits every emotion man, thats what a good action movie does if we get real lol. Highlander you get the triple whammy because you have fucking Queen on the score like:



you hear that come in a little and you're just like fuck christopher lambert you alien sounding motherfucker i cant believe im gonna tear up over your goofy ass

Exactly lol. Chris Lambert is a terrible actor, fuck half these dudes are terrible actors but they build up the beef and tension to a point where it has to be resolved. in a way its 1000 times more anime than all these iaijutsu inspired western action scenes, like the brains of these guys see the ninja sword moves and think that's what it's about but 99 percent of the time who cares? One movie that i think kinda married the two was Ninja Assassin, maybe its a little TOO generic for guys like us who've watched so many action movies and weeb games where we dislike a glossed up version because it's really just an amalgam of all the cult shit we love

Loved NA! its SUPER cheesy and campy in a way I don't think ppl were ready for. Shit feels like a straight up modern sequel to all those 80s ninja movies. Also one the few movies I'm okay with CGI blood. Only two ways to do cgi blood imo, is David Fincher I can't believe that was cgi kinda usage, or you go hyper stylized anime shit like Ninja Assassin does. Most tend to half ass it with little fake sprayed on spurts and shit in post. He did it in V for Vendetta as well. I think the used to be second unit director for the Wachowskis? He definitely soaked up some game.

[Joe Molotov]

Oh god don't get me started on CGI blood!

Remember when they CG'ed blood into The Expendables because it was originally supposed to be PG-13?

[toku]

One of the best fights filmed imo, MJW gonna go to his grave underrated and it's a shame. Nobody in the game has ever and will ever throw kicks like him. IN TIMBS nicca

legend

but look how simple but effective this fight is. Even if you haven't seen the move, zero context you know everything you need to by the setting and how they fight. You know exactly where these characters are mentally

[Akala]

GOAT remains:

[toku]

Could waste a whole thread on the hk legends tbh. Sammo Hung birthed entire generations and careers...multiple times. Also shoutout to HK action cinema showing women, both asian and white more decent love before than anywhere else I can think of



cynthia rothrock > ms marvel wack cape shit

[thisismyusername]

I mean, it's possible. But liability insurance/etc. would hate that person.

[team filler]

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I watched no retreat no surrender and shaolin chastity kung fu too many times to count. recently found a torrent for the american cut of no retreat, but chastity kung fu I can only find some alternate cut that's missing stuff from the vhs I grew up with 

[remy]

Could waste a whole thread on the hk legends tbh. Sammo Hung birthed entire generations and careers...multiple times. Also shoutout to HK action cinema showing women, both asian and white more decent love before than anywhere else I can think of



cynthia rothrock > ms marvel wack cape shit

dude that bit with him catching the sword sheathe and her slicing it 

[EchoRin]

My dad and I tuned into Highlander the tv show all the fucking time.

You know what I miss? Adult action like The Fugitive.

Looooove The Fugitive. Two grown ass greying men who ain't fighters duking it out on a subway and one of them has a fake arm for pete's sake lol.

[BIONIC]

You still get some real good shit like the John Wick movies. Even stuff like Birds of Prey and Polar (Netflix movie) have pretty decent action.

One of my favorite 90s fight scenes though is this:



The fucking raw physicality and emotion is just    Goddamn classic movie.

[StealthFan]

Watch RE:Born. No budget MGS

[naff]

The real GOAT fight scene:

came here thinking of this. so dramatic

i need drama to care about the action. an extreme example, but one of my favs

[naff]

is it bad how satisfying i found cliff booth killing the mansons?   

[EchoRin]

is it bad how satisfying i found cliff booth killing the mansons?   

Self defense 

[naff]

are you not ENTERTAINED 

[Great Rumbler]

[Himu]

Jackie Chan is still the GOAT.

[Tasty]

Hot take: we need more faux-classy erotic thrillers. Where's the Basic Instinct of the '10s? 

[Himu]

My dad and I tuned into Highlander the tv show all the fucking time.

You know what I miss? Adult action like The Fugitive.

Looooove The Fugitive. Two grown ass greying men who ain't fighters duking it out on a subway and one of them has a fake arm for pete's sake lol.

And shit like Speed.



Still my favorite action film of all time. I'm pretty sure i saw that movie at least 7 times with my dad in theaters.

[StealthFan]

Speed 

[toku]

Hot take: we need more faux-classy erotic thrillers. Where's the Basic Instinct of the '10s? 

Yeah the sexy thriller basically died in the 90s. If there was ever time for it to make a resurgence though, I think now is it.

[Great Rumbler]

Fun Fact: Basic Instinct 2 came out 14 years after the original. That was 14 years ago.

[mormapope]

Tom Cruise's best action role by far.

[toku]

tasty gotta become a big time hollywood director so he can remake this:

[Joe Molotov]

Hot take: we need more faux-classy erotic thrillers. Where's the Basic Instinct of the '10s? 

I can’t wait until REE discovers these movies. “Sharon Stone shows off her what?!”

[Nintex]

Collateral is fantastic 

[team filler]

instead of showgirls we get movies like hustlers