Author Topic: bloated fighting game rosters  (Read 423 times)

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headwalk

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bloated fighting game rosters
« on: February 14, 2021, 05:23:53 PM »
i fired up SF5 for the first time in years and the selection screen looks like a damn MUGEN rom. i never understand the clamour from fighting game types who want to bloat their title with a thousand cast members that make coming back to them after any time off incomprehnsible unless you want to do a PHD in frametimes. it's fine for something like smash which is basically mario kart with a punch button, but with most of these games whenever I feel like i'm just about getting to grips with the matchups some new cunt shows up.

i'd much rather play a game with 8 characters who all offered something completely different than 30 different barely decipherable season pass fillers, and i've never understood the idea that more characters always = better. infact i always find fighting games most enjoyable at launch for that reason despite balance usually being wack as hell. sf5 got torn apart at launch for having a small roster but that was one of the few things going for it to my mind after losing touch with sf4. i want sf6 at this point just for the reset.

Beezy

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Re: bloated fighting game rosters
« Reply #1 on: February 14, 2021, 05:38:20 PM »
The only real worthwhile content for fighting games are new fighters. I'm not paying for fucking colors/costumes and devs gotta make money somehow. I prefer this over constantly releasing new editions that fracture the player base.

Bebpo

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Re: bloated fighting game rosters
« Reply #2 on: February 14, 2021, 05:40:13 PM »
Noooooooooooooo

I get it, but I'm 100% opposite direction. The larger the roster = the better the fighting game for me. MvC2 and KoF98-2002 were some of my favorite fighting games ever because when playing with friends we'd keep mixing up our teams every few fights and there was just so much variety.

I don't play serious competitive level in fighting games and get why in those games you want to have better balance over a million characters,

but these days only games like Blazblue towards the end and Smash Bros have the kind of rosters that make me happy in fighters. Everyone else has really downsized and slowly built their rosters back up over years of character additions. I have looked into SFV for a few years, but it sounds like the roster size is nice now, but...I just don't really like SFV so no interest in going back.

Joe Molotov

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Re: bloated fighting game rosters
« Reply #3 on: February 14, 2021, 06:42:53 PM »
I quit Smash when they added Mario to it.
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Nintex

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Re: bloated fighting game rosters
« Reply #4 on: February 14, 2021, 07:11:44 PM »
Team Ninja got you covered.
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remy

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Re: bloated fighting game rosters
« Reply #5 on: February 14, 2021, 07:36:23 PM »
Team Ninja got you covered.
I am reading this as a DOA 6 diss but that game still has like 30 characters? ???

Nintex

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Re: bloated fighting game rosters
« Reply #6 on: February 14, 2021, 07:50:31 PM »
There's a version with only 4 fighters, I think the 'standard' has 20.
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mormapope

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Re: bloated fighting game rosters
« Reply #7 on: February 14, 2021, 08:10:13 PM »

Besides the large number of shotos, this is what a great fucking roster looks like
 :lawd :lawd :lawd

Noooooooooooooo

I get it, but I'm 100% opposite direction. The larger the roster = the better the fighting game for me. MvC2 and KoF98-2002 were some of my favorite fighting games ever because when playing with friends we'd keep mixing up our teams every few fights and there was just so much variety.

I don't play serious competitive level in fighting games and get why in those games you want to have better balance over a million characters,

but these days only games like Blazblue towards the end and Smash Bros have the kind of rosters that make me happy in fighters. Everyone else has really downsized and slowly built their rosters back up over years of character additions. I have looked into SFV for a few years, but it sounds like the roster size is nice now, but...I just don't really like SFV so no interest in going back.

The problem with MvC2's roster is how many characters are straight up bad. Not even in a super competitive sense. In general, there's around 12 characters that can whoop ass and everyone else is fodder.

MvC3 has a lot more viable characters, but the OP characters are so broken that they outclass everyone else.

It's sad MvC is dead. If Capcom learned the right lessons from each entry, we'd get something as beloved as Smash Ultimate.
OH!

Bebpo

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Re: bloated fighting game rosters
« Reply #8 on: February 14, 2021, 09:00:08 PM »
idk, I mean yeah Cable was great and cheesing and Dr. Doom has a nice assist, but me and my friend would use like Amigo and the Pirate Monkey and everyone in MvC2 because they were fun.

There's nothing better than beating your friends with bad characters.

Stro

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Re: bloated fighting game rosters
« Reply #9 on: February 14, 2021, 09:26:36 PM »
Just pick one or two you like and get good ya fuckin baby

mormapope

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Re: bloated fighting game rosters
« Reply #10 on: February 14, 2021, 09:54:28 PM »
idk, I mean yeah Cable was great and cheesing and Dr. Doom has a nice assist, but me and my friend would use like Amigo and the Pirate Monkey and everyone in MvC2 because they were fun.

There's nothing better than beating your friends with bad characters.


Level 3 X-factor Vergil with 5 bars of super in UMvC3 would say otherwise  :doge

Tbh, I don't get satisfaction from playing as characters that are not viable to my playstyle. I'm not a tier whore, but viability and match ups matter to me.

Take for example in Marvel 2, the projectiles the Street Fighter cast and the majority of the Capcom cast has compared to many Marvel characters is fucking whack. So if I want my game plan to revolve around zoning, 90% of the cast is utterly fucked with giving pressure and defending against pressure.

That's not fun to me. A cast of characters that has unique toolsets but those toolsets being balanced, that's fun. You won't be penalized for playing as a goofy or non traditional character.

Great balancing = "whoever we select, it'll be a good time"

Bad balancing = "depending on who we select, this shit could be a trainwreck for one of us"

I mean, MvC2 has Roll. Roll is absolutely useless and pointless.
« Last Edit: February 14, 2021, 10:01:40 PM by mormapope »
OH!

Tasty

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Re: bloated fighting game rosters
« Reply #11 on: February 14, 2021, 10:32:58 PM »
The only real worthwhile content for fighting games are new fighters.

That's not true, MK added a full Kart Racer.



Maybe SF6 should be 4 fighters and a full racing game :trumps

Joe Molotov

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Re: bloated fighting game rosters
« Reply #12 on: February 15, 2021, 12:57:16 AM »
Forza Kombat
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remy

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Re: bloated fighting game rosters
« Reply #13 on: February 15, 2021, 01:37:33 AM »
kudos instinct

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bork

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Re: bloated fighting game rosters
« Reply #14 on: February 15, 2021, 01:45:52 AM »
i fired up SF5 for the first time in years and the selection screen looks like a damn MUGEN rom. i never understand the clamour from fighting game types who want to bloat their title with a thousand cast members that make coming back to them after any time off incomprehnsible unless you want to do a PHD in frametimes. it's fine for something like smash which is basically mario kart with a punch button, but with most of these games whenever I feel like i'm just about getting to grips with the matchups some new cunt shows up.

i'd much rather play a game with 8 characters who all offered something completely different than 30 different barely decipherable season pass fillers, and i've never understood the idea that more characters always = better. infact i always find fighting games most enjoyable at launch for that reason despite balance usually being wack as hell. sf5 got torn apart at launch for having a small roster but that was one of the few things going for it to my mind after losing touch with sf4. i want sf6 at this point just for the reset.

They've been adding these characters over time and I wouldn't call most of them "decipherable season pass fillers."  It might seem overwhelming to see 40 characters if you haven't played in years, but I can't say I understand being unhappy with tons of new content.  There's some pretty cool characters that have been added.

I have looked into SFV for a few years, but it sounds like the roster size is nice now, but...I just don't really like SFV so no interest in going back.

Good time to check it out again with the new mechanic, balance changes, and Dan out in a week or two.
ど助平

Bebpo

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Re: bloated fighting game rosters
« Reply #15 on: February 15, 2021, 02:15:25 AM »
My problem with SFV is it's just not flashy and fast enough for me.

It was fun going back to old school style footsie and simplicity and strategy when SFV launched with pretty nice graphics, but I just got bored of it quick. I want big movelists, lots of combos, lots of character sand flashy moves. SFV just isn't for me.

Looking forward to checking out the Guilty Gear with its beta in a few days. Hope it's not too horribly dumbed down, because otherwise it looks really cool and flashy.

remy

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Re: bloated fighting game rosters
« Reply #16 on: February 15, 2021, 06:50:59 AM »
I think the new guilty gear has the potential to be a big hit if the online is tight and the gameplay is right. I know people online like to take big stinky doo doo dumps on it because it's babbies first guilty gear but I fucking doubt it will be that tbh.  i also thing most "fightin game players"  that talk shit on games on forums and twitter are probably like bronze leaguers at best.

I missed the last beta but I'm going to play the crap out of this one and see what I think

re SFV: the next season will be interesting re: flashyness. I think the winter update trailer had people entering float/juggle state on CH anti air normals so we might be seeing some ker-azy ish combo stuff... at least for SFV. v-shift is a pretty wild mechanic too that I can't really wrap my mind around how it won't just bail people out of every pressure situation. Any mechanic that makes it easy to fucking snap a laura player over my knee is good in my book though.

re: OP. I actually get what you're saying about small rosters. I played KI 2013 and in season one with an 8 fighter roster (and even in season 2 with 12ish or whatever it was) it was plausible to basically have every character matchup memorised and know their options v. your options and take out the guessing game aspect and just play strategy against strategy.

In something like tekken 7 there are so many fucking characters I often have no god damn idea what I'm being hit with. I don't know if something is a high, mid, safe, punishable or what because harada thinks its funny to sell frame data and have 47 different flavours of KBD bullshit served on my plate.

Tasty

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Re: bloated fighting game rosters
« Reply #17 on: February 15, 2021, 08:42:40 AM »
My problem with SFV is it's just not flashy and fast enough for me.

It was fun going back to old school style footsie and simplicity and strategy when SFV launched with pretty nice graphics, but I just got bored of it quick. I want big movelists, lots of combos, lots of character sand flashy moves. SFV just isn't for me.

Looking forward to checking out the Guilty Gear with its beta in a few days. Hope it's not too horribly dumbed down, because otherwise it looks really cool and flashy.

You a FighterZ fan breh? Even I got that one. :lawd




Speaking of games with ridiculous DLC fighters...

Beezy

  • Senior Member
Re: bloated fighting game rosters
« Reply #18 on: February 15, 2021, 10:35:19 AM »
The flashy and fast fighters are fun to play with friends, but I'm so bad at them. MVC2/3, BlazBlue, FighterZ, you name it. I can't consistently chain shit together at that speed, so playing online is hell for me. This doesn't stop me from wanting to play them (I want a PS5 mainly for the new GG), but SF4, SF5, the SC games and the new Samurai Shodown are more my speed.

I'm sure I'm wrong, but it feels like everyone who's actually decent at fast and flashy fighters grew up on fighting games. I'd play them here and there, but I never truly got hooked on one until SF4. Its the first one where I made an effort to learn all the systems and character matchups.

Akala

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Re: bloated fighting game rosters
« Reply #19 on: February 15, 2021, 11:24:19 AM »
I think this last gen was a bit overbaked, but I am on team huge roster. not knowing the ins and outs of every matchup takes a backseat to variety, especially as I don't really care about wins/losses if it at least feels fairish.

I think a benefit will eventually be really good final versions of the current games, giant rosters and quick loading.

I am really looking forward to a new gen round of games tho.

Pissy F Benny

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Re: bloated fighting game rosters
« Reply #20 on: February 15, 2021, 12:24:29 PM »
i don't buy fighting games often but feel ripped off if there isn't a shit load of characters in the ones i do purchase :karen

Uncle

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Re: bloated fighting game rosters
« Reply #21 on: February 15, 2021, 06:31:21 PM »
the goat  :lawd

Uncle

bork

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Re: bloated fighting game rosters
« Reply #22 on: February 15, 2021, 08:24:03 PM »
Speaking of games with ridiculous DLC fighters...

DBZ is where I have an issue with the roster.  Like...STOP IT WITH ALL THE GOKUS AND VEGETAS.  STOP.  FUCKING STOP.

:stahp
ど助平

Tasty

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Re: bloated fighting game rosters
« Reply #23 on: February 15, 2021, 08:37:54 PM »
Speaking of games with ridiculous DLC fighters...

DBZ is where I have an issue with the roster.  Like...STOP IT WITH ALL THE GOKUS AND VEGETAS.  STOP.  FUCKING STOP.

:stahp

I threw that line in because I agree. :lol

I look at BT3 with it's 161 character roster and even that game didn't have so many dupes of Goku and Vegeta :dead

Tasty

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Re: bloated fighting game rosters
« Reply #24 on: February 15, 2021, 08:42:21 PM »
OK I lied.

FighterZ has 6 Gokus and 3 Vegetas, BT3 had 6 of each (from what I can tell.)

Still though, ratio-wise that's a much smaller percentage of BT3's roster than FighterZ's. And all of BT3's stuff was in the base game, not trickled out as paid DLC.

Basically what I'm saying is I love BT3 (and BT2) and I've been meaning to get back into Xenoverse 2 since that seems more my style. :P

Beezy

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Re: bloated fighting game rosters
« Reply #25 on: February 15, 2021, 09:12:08 PM »
Not sure why I never got Xenoverse 2. I played the shit out of the first one.

Tasty

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Re: bloated fighting game rosters
« Reply #26 on: February 15, 2021, 09:18:15 PM »
Not sure why I never got Xenoverse 2. I played the shit out of the first one.

I think they remade Xeno 1's story as Xeno 2 DLC (included in base Switch version edit- actually, not sure) which is kinda bonkers, but I love the idea that I can play the entire duology in one game on my Switch. :)

Shuri

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Re: bloated fighting game rosters
« Reply #27 on: February 16, 2021, 09:56:39 AM »
Xenoverse's gameplay reminded me a lot of Taito's Psychic Force 2012, a lesser known fighting game from 1997 or so. It wasn't the best, but it was fun! I enjoyed Xenoverse a lot and I never watched a single DBZ episode!

tiesto

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Re: bloated fighting game rosters
« Reply #28 on: February 16, 2021, 10:27:50 AM »
the goat  :lawd



Whoa... I bought the Japanese version of this at a thrift store for like $2... "Poitters Point" it's called. Had no idea there was even a US release.
^_^

Nintex

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Re: bloated fighting game rosters
« Reply #29 on: February 16, 2021, 12:12:04 PM »
the goat  :lawd


It looks like a mix between Smash Bros. and Bomberman and if that copyright year is accurate it predates Smash by about 2 years?  :thinking
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bork

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Re: bloated fighting game rosters
« Reply #30 on: February 16, 2021, 12:16:54 PM »
Xenoverse's gameplay reminded me a lot of Taito's Psychic Force 2012, a lesser known fighting game from 1997 or so. It wasn't the best, but it was fun! I enjoyed Xenoverse a lot and I never watched a single DBZ episode!

Kinda, but I liked Psychic Force more.  The Senko No Ronde games are also similar.
ど助平

bork

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Re: bloated fighting game rosters
« Reply #31 on: February 16, 2021, 12:17:43 PM »
Another weird fighter from Treasure.

ど助平

Tasty

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Re: bloated fighting game rosters
« Reply #32 on: February 16, 2021, 12:18:03 PM »
It looks like a mix between Smash Bros. and Bomberman and if that copyright year is accurate it predates Smash by about 2 years?  :thinking

We don't really know when Dragon King went into development (which would become Smash 64.)



Fun to think about though.

bork

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Re: bloated fighting game rosters
« Reply #33 on: February 16, 2021, 12:19:23 PM »
It looks like a mix between Smash Bros. and Bomberman and if that copyright year is accurate it predates Smash by about 2 years?  :thinking

You can go back further than that- The Outfoxies from 1994 is similar.

ど助平

bork

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Re: bloated fighting game rosters
« Reply #34 on: February 16, 2021, 12:20:35 PM »
And it wasn't a fighting game, but Trap Gunner was pretty cool.  That house music character select theme:lawd

ど助平

Uncle

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Re: bloated fighting game rosters
« Reply #35 on: February 16, 2021, 01:10:13 PM »
It looks like a mix between Smash Bros. and Bomberman and if that copyright year is accurate it predates Smash by about 2 years?  :thinking

You can go back further than that- The Outfoxies from 1994 is similar.



ok that's a pretty awesome final level to the game from 17:20 on  :lol
Uncle

Tasty

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Re: bloated fighting game rosters
« Reply #36 on: February 16, 2021, 01:15:22 PM »
It looks like a mix between Smash Bros. and Bomberman and if that copyright year is accurate it predates Smash by about 2 years?  :thinking

You can go back further than that- The Outfoxies from 1994 is similar.



Yooooooooooo something about watching this lit up my entire brain. Never seen this game before, but it feels like the type of game I would love to make. :o

Never thought that the Elevator Action "genre" could be spruced up and made so interesting. Holy shit, I think I need to look for this game.

Uncle

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Re: bloated fighting game rosters
« Reply #37 on: February 16, 2021, 01:26:17 PM »
if you like that style of game, look up duck game, though it's pretty firmly smash-inspired and meant for multiplayer

very fast paced too, one shot one kill, it's like the bushido blade of smash bros?

Uncle

Tasty

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Re: bloated fighting game rosters
« Reply #38 on: February 16, 2021, 01:42:52 PM »
if you like that style of game, look up duck game, though it's pretty firmly smash-inspired and meant for multiplayer

very fast paced too, one shot one kill, it's like the bushido blade of smash bros?



I'm more into the almost Game and Watch-like crafted single-player levels. Seems like it would be really fun to design levels like that.

Let's Cyber

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Re: bloated fighting game rosters
« Reply #39 on: February 16, 2021, 03:58:36 PM »
I kinda like stupid, bloated rosters, tbh.

Capcom vs SNK 2 is the best shit


chronovore

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Re: bloated fighting game rosters
« Reply #40 on: February 18, 2021, 05:26:02 AM »
It looks like a mix between Smash Bros. and Bomberman and if that copyright year is accurate it predates Smash by about 2 years?  :thinking

You can go back further than that- The Outfoxies from 1994 is similar.



Wow, that was just a couple years before I worked there, and I have never heard of that game.

Yooooooooooo something about watching this lit up my entire brain. Never seen this game before, but it feels like the type of game I would love to make. :o

Never thought that the Elevator Action "genre" could be spruced up and made so interesting. Holy shit, I think I need to look for this game.