Author Topic: USA Politics Thread |OT| Cleaning up the town  (Read 217153 times)

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Himu

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Re: USA Politics Thread |OT| Cleaning up the town
« Reply #2100 on: September 18, 2022, 07:38:41 PM »
On one hand, stronger borders are needed. Please finish the wall. What if these people were cartel? Thousands of people streaming into the state every damn day. Please finish the wall. How is this not considered an invasion of America's sovereignty?
Allowing immigration does not harm a nations claim of sovereignty.

Also on the Texas gubernatorial ballot:
Quote
Libertarian Mark Jay Tippetts, attorney, former Lago Vista city councilman, and nominee for governor in 2018
Green Delilah Barrios, environmental activist
Independent Deirdre Dickson-Gilbert, public educator (previously ran for Democratic nomination)
Independent Ricardo Turullols-Bonilla, retired educator and write-in candidate for U.S. Senate in 2020

They are illegal. Imagine a bunch of French Canadians hopped over the Canada-US border over into Detroit, Benji. A bunch of mean ass French Canadians armed with poutine and foul insults fucking up the local culture. You wouldn't argue that then, would you? They can just waltz in without a background check and stay? Pretty soon the Great Lakes will be saying "sacre bleu!" Do you really want that?

Tippetts is anti-wall. They need to finish it.
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benjipwns

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Re: USA Politics Thread |OT| Cleaning up the town
« Reply #2101 on: September 18, 2022, 07:51:09 PM »
Yeah, I would. Fears about cultural concerns are not a reason to restrict freedom of movement no matter how well it worked to get Americans to adopt border restrictions to keep out the "wrong" cultures starting with the Chinese. We're not going to dismantle the 100 Mile Border Zone until this absurd hangup goes away.

For the record, there's no wall of any kind on the American-Canadian border. You may need to cross it multiple times to find all the books you want. Crossing the American-Canadian border constantly with zero background checks is a daily thing for border communities.

And a wall on the other land border won't do anything for the minor concern you want stopped anyway, most "illegal" immigrants come from overstayed visas not border crossers from Mexico.

Himu

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Re: USA Politics Thread |OT| Cleaning up the town
« Reply #2102 on: September 18, 2022, 08:07:48 PM »
There's no wall on the American-Canadian border because you don't have to deal with cartels and drug smugglers en masse. These people are completely unchecked. They are not "migrants", they are illegal immigrants.
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benjipwns

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Re: USA Politics Thread |OT| Cleaning up the town
« Reply #2103 on: September 18, 2022, 08:42:23 PM »
There's no wall on the American-Canadian border because you don't have to deal with cartels and drug smugglers en masse.
Since you know the statistics how much more drugs comes across the Mexican border than the Canadian border? How much comes in through the ports?

These people are completely unchecked. They are not "migrants", they are illegal immigrants.
I'm not a big person on thinking harmless civil violations of unjust laws makes a person a bad person though.

Himu

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Re: USA Politics Thread |OT| Cleaning up the town
« Reply #2104 on: September 18, 2022, 09:24:29 PM »

Since you know the statistics how much more drugs comes across the Mexican border than the Canadian border? How much comes in through the ports?

Cartel violence on the border:

https://www.vice.com/en/article/pkpwd7/a-cartel-firefight-just-turned-a-us-mexico-border-town-into-a-war-zone

Human smuggling and trafficking with "migrants" dead in San Antonio

https://www.npr.org/2022/06/28/1108280982/texas-migrant-deaths-human-smuggling-mexico

Quote
San Antonio is a hub for cargo, including migrants

The city is just 150 miles from the U.S.-Mexico border, on two busy corridors that reach across the U.S.: I-10 running between Los Angeles and Florida and I-35 running from the border crossing at Laredo up north to Minnesota.

"Once you get to San Antonio, you can go to Houston, you can go to Dallas, you can go further north into the Midwest. Of course, I-35 goes all the way up to Minnesota," Enriquez said. "So it is an important corridor for goods and unfortunately, also for smuggling and the trafficking of persons."

Human traffickers thrive in areas where their trucks can mix in with other vehicles. And in Laredo, thousands of trucks cross the border each day. Smugglers operate their own logistics chain — but with safehouses instead of warehouses.

"I mean, it is literally a needle in a haystack," Robinette said. "If you've ever been to that border, you just see the frequency and the volume of trucks that are traveling northbound through the different checkpoints. It's a miracle that [agents] come across what they do come across."

Mexican Foreign Secretary Marcelo Ebrard said in a tweet that the dead include 22 Mexicans, 7 Guatemalans and 2 Hondurans. The others have not yet been identified.
Migrants pay tens of thousands of dollars to smugglers

For migrants, the financial costs of crossing are steep.

"We've heard reports of tens of thousands of dollars, depending on where they're coming from and where their destination is," Enriquez said.

"We also have to keep in mind that many of these folks already have family in the United States, and they're simply either trying to reunify with family here" or are in families with mixed citizenship, he said. In turn, loved ones who are working in the U.S. often help migrants raise the money to pay smugglers' steep fees, Enriquez added.

"It's a terrible human tragedy, and it continues to happen on a too-regular basis, because we have really failed to address two of the most important components of immigration law, which is family reunification and labor," he said.

Noting flaws in the U.S. guest worker program and other issues, Enriquez added, "Basically, we've stayed in a holding pattern for the last 10 or 15 years."

One thing that has changed is the difficulty of crossing into the U.S. Because of the measures people take to elude new technologies, Enriquez said, migrants' journeys continue to get more dangerous.

Another part of the problem, Robinette said, is that when things go wrong, human traffickers will look after themselves first.

"At the end of the day, these smugglers have very, very little value or care" for the people they're bringing into the U.S., he said.

For migrants who rely on human smugglers, the heat sharply increases the risks they face. The San Antonio area has been experiencing extreme heat, with record temperatures topping 100 degrees this month.

"Any mistakes are essentially a death sentence to folks," Enriquez said, adding that if a driver doesn't show up on time to pick up a load, or if a refrigeration unit fails, "You're putting folks in a tremendous amount of peril."

Robinette says the U.S. has long sent mixed messages to would-be migrants, who then risk everything for the chance of a better life, despite the dangers and the threat of prosecution.

Until the U.S. can change the dynamic, he said, "we're going to have people doing anything and everything they can to try to get in here and many times risking their lives, like they did in this situation."



https://www.houstonchronicle.com/news/houston-texas/immigration/article/How-does-human-smuggling-work-17279592.php


Quote
What is the difference between human smuggling and human trafficking?

Human smuggling is when a person willingly pays a smuggler to gain entry into a foreign country, while human trafficking is the exploitation of an individual, for labor or commercial sex acts, using force, fraud or coercion.

'TOO MANY INNOCENT DEATHS': Biden says human smuggling crackdown will intensify after San Antonio migrant deaths

“A key difference is that victims of trafficking are considered victims of a crime under international law; smuggled migrants are not—they pay smugglers to facilitate their movement,” according to the U.S. Department of State.
 
However, it’s not uncommon for a migrant who willingly is being smuggled to end up being exploited or trafficked.

Old Justice Department stats:

https://www.justice.gov/archive/ndic/pubs27/27513/border.htm

USA Today expose on drug cartel market and how they go around walls.

https://www.usatoday.com/border-wall/story/drug-trafficking-smuggling-cartels-tunnels/559814001/

NYT article on human smuggling:

Quote
Smuggling Migrants at the Border Now a Billion-Dollar Business

With demand for smugglers on the rise, organized crime has moved in, with cruel and violent results.

https://www.nytimes.com/2022/07/25/us/migrant-smuggling-evolution.html


Quote
I'm not a big person on thinking harmless civil violations of unjust laws makes a person a bad person though.

Did I claim all illegal immigrants are bad people?

No.

But I don't know who they are. Are you denying Mexico does not have a cartel/drug problem?

As per NYT:

Quote
‘Absolute Warfare’: Cartels Terrorize Mexico as Security Forces Fall Short

The president disbanded the Federal Police and created the National Guard to tackle soaring violence, but three years later, criminal cartels have expanded their reach.

https://www.nytimes.com/2022/08/31/world/americas/mexico-cartels-violence.html

These are not Canadians with their low crime rate, Benji.

Canadians gangs certainly aren't "terrorizing Canada". You have nothing to worry about. However, these people are unchecked and they can waltz in. Given the very apparent problem in Mexico, why in the hell would I trust people that are passing through that very country to be able to cross borders into my and surrounding states without going through authorities?

I don't trust a robber to come into my house without asking. Sure, some might not be non-violent and just there to steal stuff. But why should I give them the benefit of the doubt? I have no idea what their aims are. Some might actually try to come because they really want to add to America and want a better life. Cool. This isn't to call them all bad, but to trust blindly is foolish. Given the very real circumstances that allow firearm ownership in case of robbery to shoot assailants if need be, why in the ever living fuck would I want much less allow people to do the same thing through my own border.

An uncontrolled border leads to sex slavery, human trafficking, human smuggling, drug smuggling, violence, and an entire swarm of humanitarian violations.

How is this not contradicting NAP?

Why should I just trust people to come into my state without being checked just because I will be accused of being racist from by people far, far away from the issue who don't have to deal with it?

Are you fine letting robbers rob houses too? Or are you more fine with calling them "visitors"? Some are migrants, some aren't but all are illegal immigrants and to label them "migrants" with a broad brush is to deflect from the reality of the issue.

The case is very clear: build the wall. Add more security on the border.

If Democrats were doing all they can about it, I'd give them a pass. But Biden's administration is half assing it in the name of fighting "racism" while putting his actual constituents and citizens in harms way. Don't forget, if it's easy to get into America it must be easy to get out. Guns go out of America too. I'm sure people are just as easy to traffic.
« Last Edit: September 18, 2022, 09:32:56 PM by Himu »
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Himu

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Re: USA Politics Thread |OT| Cleaning up the town
« Reply #2105 on: September 18, 2022, 09:35:46 PM »
On the Texas ballot are the issues of illegal immigration/border control and abortion. Both sides are weak on at least one half. Both are serious. Captured states that don't have moderate parties to act as a buffer are pointless. Instead you get progressives running in the state of Texas. Texas needs a Manchin.
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Phoenix Dark

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Re: USA Politics Thread |OT| Cleaning up the town
« Reply #2106 on: September 18, 2022, 10:13:24 PM »
The idea that a wall solves or comes close to solving illegal immigration is s-tier stupidity. I wouldn't take the Benji approach on border laws and whether they should exist or not, but...the wall is dumb guys.
« Last Edit: September 18, 2022, 11:13:37 PM by Phoenix Dark »
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Occam

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Re: USA Politics Thread |OT| Cleaning up the town
« Reply #2107 on: September 19, 2022, 06:33:42 AM »
It doesn't stop drug trafficking, either. You can always use ladders, tunnels, drones.
The wall is a con by pretzel brains, for pretzel brains.
« Last Edit: September 19, 2022, 08:38:37 AM by Occam »
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Potato

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Re: USA Politics Thread |OT| Cleaning up the town
« Reply #2108 on: September 19, 2022, 06:50:54 AM »
It doesn't stop drug traffing, either. You can always use ladders, tunnels, drones.
The wall is a con by pretzel brains, for pretzel brains.
I'm pretty sure that not many drugs are being brought into the US by Mexicans on foot either.
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Uncle

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Re: USA Politics Thread |OT| Cleaning up the town
« Reply #2109 on: September 19, 2022, 07:50:29 AM »
the wall is dumb but I also understand the logic that every little deterrent helps contribute in some small way

the prospect of having to go to a specific un-walled crossing point, which might be more dangerous for some reason or have law enforcement waiting there since it's a known hole, that could be enough to stop a few people trying to cross

also the wall must be a good idea in some sense because it's well known that liberal administrations don't double down on bad ideas
Uncle

james

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Re: USA Politics Thread |OT| Cleaning up the town
« Reply #2110 on: September 19, 2022, 08:42:03 AM »
On the Texas ballot are the issues of illegal immigration/border control and abortion. Both sides are weak on at least one half. Both are serious. Captured states that don't have moderate parties to act as a buffer are pointless. Instead you get progressives running in the state of Texas. Texas needs a Manchin.

You don't find it curious that California, a border state, and New Mexico, a border state, don't seem to be having a border crisis?

But only the republican led states of Texas and Florida do?

Its almost like you're falling for the propoganda around the scary brown people.

What year was the infamous caravan again, 2018? Dominated media coverage for months and then the day after the election was never mentioned again
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Himu

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Re: USA Politics Thread |OT| Cleaning up the town
« Reply #2111 on: September 19, 2022, 08:47:53 AM »
The wall should be only one form deterrence and it's precisely why it's not the only thing I listed as border security in my last post. I just consider it one form of border security, like one of the many tools in my pocket knife.
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Uncle

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Re: USA Politics Thread |OT| Cleaning up the town
« Reply #2112 on: September 19, 2022, 08:50:33 AM »
You don't find it curious that California, a border state, and New Mexico, a border state, don't seem to be having a border crisis?

But only the republican led states of Texas and Florida do?

if those states aren't republican-led, then maybe it'd be off-message for the platform to publicize any problems they might be having?

sort of like california's shoplifting/break-in/homeless problems which only tend to be reported on from evil right leaning sources

or sort of like how if immigration WASN'T an issue, and was easy to deal with, and liberal states welcome busloads from desantis with open arms, then why would anyone want him to stop doing it
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Himu

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Re: USA Politics Thread |OT| Cleaning up the town
« Reply #2113 on: September 19, 2022, 08:51:22 AM »
The idea that a wall solves or comes close to solving illegal immigration is s-tier stupidity. I wouldn't take the Benji approach on border laws and whether they should exist or not, but...the wall is dumb guys.

Wall is just one method. Make it. Add more security. Keep track of the roaches that are the cartel and smugglers/traffickers.

On the Texas ballot are the issues of illegal immigration/border control and abortion. Both sides are weak on at least one half. Both are serious. Captured states that don't have moderate parties to act as a buffer are pointless. Instead you get progressives running in the state of Texas. Texas needs a Manchin.

You don't find it curious that California, a border state, and New Mexico, a border state, don't seem to be having a border crisis?

But only the republican led states of Texas and Florida do?

Its almost like you're falling for the propoganda around the scary brown people.

What year was the infamous caravan again, 2018? Dominated media coverage for months and then the day after the election was never mentioned again

Spoken like a Yankee :lol
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Himu

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Re: USA Politics Thread |OT| Cleaning up the town
« Reply #2114 on: September 19, 2022, 09:04:33 AM »
This typifies liberal "solutions".

Homelessness in the subway with some crack smoking homeless man making a public utility his house where children ride, mental illness rampant and the liberal solution?

"Leave them alone, they need a place to stay during the winter and that's their home."

A non solution.

Similarly, conservatives are proposing one of many deterrances for illegal immigrants. A wall is just one of those deterrants. What's the solution or alternative liberals got? "A wall is stupid." Yeah? I posted that the cartel evades a wall if it's erected but at least it's something. What do you propose that's better?

It's the same way with conservatives and their complete lack of real healthcare proposal or Obamacare replacement. If you're going to trash an idea propose a better solution. A wall may be "dumb" to you, but to me it's just one added layer of security of many.
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james

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Re: USA Politics Thread |OT| Cleaning up the town
« Reply #2115 on: September 19, 2022, 09:07:03 AM »
if those states aren't republican-led, then maybe it'd be off-message for the platform to publicize any problems they might be having?


The number of help wanted signs at restaurants indicates that there is not in fact an over abundance of cheap labor.

This typifies liberal "solutions".

Homelessness in the subway with some crack smoking homeless man making a public utility his house where children ride, mental illness rampant and the liberal solution?

"Leave them alone, they need a place to stay during the winter and that's their home."

A non solution.

Similarly, conservatives are proposing one of many deterrances for illegal immigrants. A wall is just one of those deterrants. What's the solution or alternative liberals got? "A wall is stupid." Yeah? I posted that the cartel evades a wall if it's erected but at least it's something. What do you propose that's better?

It's the same way with conservatives and their complete lack of real healthcare proposal or Obamacare replacement. If you're going to trash an idea propose a better solution. A wall may be "dumb" to you, but to me it's just one added layer of security of many.

Republicans have governed Texas for DECADES.

That means one of two things:

1) They are 100% unable to stop the problem
2) They don't want to stop it because they get to campaign on it every year

How is electing Abbott going to solve the border crisis if he couldnt get it done in the last 4 years? or the guy before him with the same platform? Or the guy before him with the same platform?

The border crisis looks identical to me as it did...under Bush. And it only started spiking after Obama left office.



This one goes back even further.

2021 only looks so high because 2020 was a missed year due to Covid. Same as car sales. People pushed back their decision.

« Last Edit: September 19, 2022, 09:14:31 AM by james »
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Himu

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Re: USA Politics Thread |OT| Cleaning up the town
« Reply #2116 on: September 19, 2022, 09:14:22 AM »
CBP is a federal organization, James.
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Uncle

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Re: USA Politics Thread |OT| Cleaning up the town
« Reply #2117 on: September 19, 2022, 09:15:35 AM »
if those states aren't republican-led, then maybe it'd be off-message for the platform to publicize any problems they might be having?


The number of help wanted signs at restaurants indicates that there is not in fact an over abundance of cheap labor.

what kind of person looks at undocumented migrants and says oh boy gee whiz I can't wait to exploit them, bring over as many as you want and we'll throw them in our kitchens paying them nearly nothing under the table

is there any state that actually has that policy? or is it more likely that they welcome people entering through the legal process, and do their best to keep out border jumpers, whether republican or democrat?
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james

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Re: USA Politics Thread |OT| Cleaning up the town
« Reply #2118 on: September 19, 2022, 09:16:44 AM »
CBP is a federal organization, James.

Then why are you saying this:

I don't know whom to vote for.

On one hand, stronger borders are needed. Please finish the wall.

Some days I think I'll vote Abbott, other days I think I should vote Beto.

If you agree its a federal issue, then why does it affect the choice between Abbott and Beto?

You think Abbott busing people to DC is going to chance the decisions people make in Venezuela to flee the country?
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james

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Re: USA Politics Thread |OT| Cleaning up the town
« Reply #2119 on: September 19, 2022, 09:18:42 AM »
if those states aren't republican-led, then maybe it'd be off-message for the platform to publicize any problems they might be having?


The number of help wanted signs at restaurants indicates that there is not in fact an over abundance of cheap labor.

what kind of person looks at undocumented migrants and says oh boy gee whiz I can't wait to exploit them, bring over as many as you want and we'll throw them in our kitchens paying them nearly nothing under the table

Typically, thats the R party platform.

Quote
Standing on stage at a Republican debate on the Gulf Coast of Florida last week, Mitt Romney repeatedly lashed out at rival Rudy Giuliani for providing sanctuary to illegal immigrants in New York City.

Yet, the very next morning, on Thursday, at least two illegal immigrants stepped out of a hulking maroon pickup truck in the driveway of Romney's Belmont house, then proceeded to spend several hours raking leaves, clearing debris from Romney's tennis court, and loading the refuse back on to the truck.

In fact, their work was part of a regular pattern. Despite a Globe story in Dec. 2006 that highlighted Romney's use of illegal immigrants to tend to his lawn, Romney continued to employ the same landscaping company — until today. The landscaping company, in turn, continued to employ illegal immigrants.

https://www.presidency.ucsb.edu/documents/press-release-flashback-lawn-work-romneys-home-still-done-illegal-immigrants

spoiler (click to show/hide)
But Romney is Mexican so hes ok
[close]

But my point is, the old anti-immigration line was "dur stealing muh jerbs".

Notice it's not used anymore, because we have more jobs that immigrants. How exactly would the labor shortage look if we take away the 500k that came over in the past few years?
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Himu

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Re: USA Politics Thread |OT| Cleaning up the town
« Reply #2120 on: September 19, 2022, 09:43:47 AM »
I won't humor you with a reply but this is an issue Democrats are losing on. That's all.
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james

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Re: USA Politics Thread |OT| Cleaning up the town
« Reply #2121 on: September 19, 2022, 09:52:32 AM »
I won't humor you with a reply but this is an issue Democrats are losing on. That's all.

I love how simple your brain is. When presented with something that conflicts with the one thing in there, you shut down. If only we could all be as blissful as you.
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Occam

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Re: USA Politics Thread |OT| Cleaning up the town
« Reply #2122 on: September 19, 2022, 09:55:53 AM »
Naturally. Once your brain has twisted itself into a pretzel, it's virtually impossible to untwist.

You know the saying, you can lead a Republican to the facts but you can't make make them think.
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Himu

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Re: USA Politics Thread |OT| Cleaning up the town
« Reply #2123 on: September 19, 2022, 09:59:53 AM »
https://www.nbcnews.com/meet-the-press/first-read/poll-gop-winning-economy-immigration-democrats-are-ahead-abortion-heal-rcna48297

Quote
Poll: GOP is winning on the economy, immigration; Democrats are ahead on abortion and health care

Sounds about right. Both parties think their shit don't stink on key issues and act similarly on specific issues. "Banning" abortion (even exceptions) isn't a solution. Denying America's healthcare woes isn't a solution. Going lalala WACISM to the border crisis isn't a solution. "Why don't you buy an EV?" :smug to rising gas prices (which have thankfully lowered) or ignoring rising inflation by increasing spending isn't a solution. Neither party wants to make concessions and both are full of shit. The same, but also different. It's a shit sandwich and we all gotta take a bite.
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Himu

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Re: USA Politics Thread |OT| Cleaning up the town
« Reply #2124 on: September 19, 2022, 10:06:29 AM »
Naturally. Once your brain has twisted itself into a pretzel, it's virtually impossible to untwist.

You know the saying, you can lead a Republican to the facts but you can't make make them think.

Most Americans agree with me on immigration, foreigner. :)
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Uncle

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Re: USA Politics Thread |OT| Cleaning up the town
« Reply #2125 on: September 19, 2022, 10:08:02 AM »
But my point is, the old anti-immigration line was "dur stealing muh jerbs".

Notice it's not used anymore, because we have more jobs that immigrants. How exactly would the labor shortage look if we take away the 500k that came over in the past few years?

so, again: why does anyone want to stop desantis from sending people up north?

he's depriving himself of jobs and all the benefits that come from increased diversity, and bolstering democratic states. how is this a problem? how is it not just a self-own in every sense?

why do you want to force these people to remain in republican shitholes rather than end up where they are welcomed, fed, and given good jobs?
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james

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Re: USA Politics Thread |OT| Cleaning up the town
« Reply #2126 on: September 19, 2022, 10:14:24 AM »
so, again: why does anyone want to stop desantis from sending people up north?

he's depriving himself of jobs and all the benefits that come from increased diversity, and bolstering democratic states. how is this a problem? how is it not just a self-own in every sense?

I notice you never responded to my reply pointing out that DeSantis took people from TEXAS to send to MA. Why is that?

And you dont see any problem with LYING to people to get them onto your plane to make a political statement? He told them they were going to Boston and had jobs lined up.

Quote
why do you want to force these people to remain in republican shitholes rather than end up where they are welcomed, fed, and given good jobs?

No one is saying this. Which windmill are you attempting to argue with?

I think Biden having buses at the border is a great idea. As long as the migrants are not being LIED TO about the destination and job prospects. The vast majority of migrants have no desire to actually live in Texas. Getting them to where their family/friends are is a great idea. Their family/friends are not at a remote resort island.
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Uncle

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Re: USA Politics Thread |OT| Cleaning up the town
« Reply #2127 on: September 19, 2022, 10:28:27 AM »
so, again: why does anyone want to stop desantis from sending people up north?

he's depriving himself of jobs and all the benefits that come from increased diversity, and bolstering democratic states. how is this a problem? how is it not just a self-own in every sense?

I notice you never responded to my reply pointing out that DeSantis took people from TEXAS to send to MA. Why is that?

I don't think it matters in terms of examining what is happening, broadly it's republicans governments sending immigrants from southern states to northern states

presumably they have an agreement or arrangement with each other since their goals align, unless you've got a news source that demonstrates greg abbott is angry desantis is doing this

Quote
And you dont see any problem with LYING to people to get them onto your plane to make a political statement? He told them they were going to Boston and had jobs lined up.

ideally it ought to be clearly communicated where they're going and what they will find when they get there, though as incompetent as these states are, I would tend not to ascribe to malice what can be explained by stupidity or miscommunication

and this is yet another aspect of the self-own, creating his own personal PR nightmare
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james

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Re: USA Politics Thread |OT| Cleaning up the town
« Reply #2128 on: September 19, 2022, 10:34:22 AM »
so, again: why does anyone want to stop desantis from sending people up north?

he's depriving himself of jobs and all the benefits that come from increased diversity, and bolstering democratic states. how is this a problem? how is it not just a self-own in every sense?

I notice you never responded to my reply pointing out that DeSantis took people from TEXAS to send to MA. Why is that?

I don't think it matters in terms of examining what is happening, broadly it's republicans governments sending immigrants from southern states to northern states

presumably they have an agreement or arrangement with each other since their goals align, unless you've got a news source that demonstrates greg abbott is angry desantis is doing this

Quote
And you dont see any problem with LYING to people to get them onto your plane to make a political statement? He told them they were going to Boston and had jobs lined up.

ideally it ought to be clearly communicated where they're going and what they will find when they get there, though as incompetent as these states are, I would tend not to ascribe to malice what can be explained by stupidity or miscommunication

and this is yet another aspect of the self-own, creating his own personal PR nightmare

If your platform is:

1) We are good with money
and
2) We are good with borders

I dont see how chartering a private plane ($$$) to go to another state ($$$) to fly people to an out-of-the-way island ($$$) accomplishes either of those goals.

Why not bus people from Texas to New Mexico, the closest D state? Its like $15 a pop on Greyhound, vs $12,000 on the plane.

Because its not about solutions, its about owning the libs on Hannity.

And we all know theres a 95% chance DeSantis knows the guy who owns the plane and got a kick-back.


It reminds me of how when Trump was president, every time there was a drug bust, the Rs would say LOOK HOW GREAT TRUMP IS DOING ON SECURITY, and now every time theres a drug bust, they say "LOOK AT ALL THESE BIDEN DRUGS"

If Biden started paying for buses to transport immigrants north, the Rs would have a meltdown. You know that is true. HOW DARE HE USE TAX MONEY TO ILLEGALLY TRANSPORT IMMIGRANTS they would scream just minutes after defending DeSantis doing the same
:O

Himu

  • Senior Member
Re: USA Politics Thread |OT| Cleaning up the town
« Reply #2129 on: September 19, 2022, 10:43:58 AM »
Neither DeSantis or Abbott are president or have Republican federal governments. Why are you comparing state power with federal power? States lack power in what they can do with borders, which are obviously federal issues. Biden is lax on the border. Comparing Abbott and DeSantis in a conversation also about Trump and Biden is utterly misaligned and illogical.

Or are you denying the federal government does not have more powers where immigration and borders are concerned?

It's less about Hannity and more about sending a message to the elites who ignore the border, an issue Democrats have stalled on. New Mexicans understand the border issue. New Yorkers and Washington libs don't. Time to put their money where their mouth is.
« Last Edit: September 19, 2022, 10:51:20 AM by Himu »
IYKYK

james

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Re: USA Politics Thread |OT| Cleaning up the town
« Reply #2130 on: September 19, 2022, 10:52:27 AM »
Neither DeSantis or Abbott are president or have Republican federal governments. Why are you comparing state power with federal power? States lack power in what they can do with borders, which are obviously federal issues.


I don't know whom to vote for.

On one hand, stronger borders are needed. Please finish the wall.

Some days I think I'll vote Abbott, other days I think I should vote Beto.

Which is it?
:O

Himu

  • Senior Member
Re: USA Politics Thread |OT| Cleaning up the town
« Reply #2131 on: September 19, 2022, 10:56:30 AM »
A mix of the two.

Immigration and borders are a federal responsibility, not a state one. But if Beto were in charge he would probably make attempts to soften the border issue and do jack shit with the illegals. At least Abbott is doing something, although it's not clean. Biden's administration is doing jack shit with the border so thankfully we have Republicans in charge doing what they can.

Federal powers are the ones that allocate resources. Resources that Biden and his Twitter administration aren't allocating to the border. They are forcing Abbott to do this with their negligence.
IYKYK

james

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Re: USA Politics Thread |OT| Cleaning up the town
« Reply #2132 on: September 19, 2022, 11:03:53 AM »
A mix of the two.

Immigration and borders are a federal responsibility, not a state one. But if Beto were in charge he would probably make attempts to soften the border issue and do jack shit with the illegals.

What policy platform of his supports this theory? Is he running on a tear down the wall campaign?

At least Abbott is doing something, although it's not clean.

What indication is there that busing people north will encourage people in Venezuela to stay there?

Do you think the economic sanctions put in place by Trump have decreased or increased the amount of people fleeing Venezuela to the US?

Federal powers are the ones that allocate resources. Resources that Biden and his Twitter administration aren't allocating to the border. They are forcing Abbott to do this with their negligence.

Would you support a federal busing program?

And finally, looking at this chart, can you please identify which years had a D president, and which years had a D republican governor of Texas? Would you say that border crossings increase or decrease under R leadership?

:O

Uncle

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Re: USA Politics Thread |OT| Cleaning up the town
« Reply #2133 on: September 19, 2022, 11:06:34 AM »
If Biden started paying for buses to transport immigrants north, the Rs would have a meltdown. You know that is true. HOW DARE HE USE TAX MONEY TO ILLEGALLY TRANSPORT IMMIGRANTS they would scream just minutes after defending DeSantis doing the same

I agree, biden should be doing it because I'm worried that texas and florida won't be able to sustain it on their own

a) if there really is an issue and it's too many people to reliably handle daily, then it needs to continue happening long-term so the states receiving them would start to recognize it and perhaps prompt federal action to help shore up any shortcomings

b) if there is no issue, then if the entire process could be done aboveboard, the states receiving them should have an easy time dealing with them and welcome them into their communities

it's a win-win
Uncle

BIONIC

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Re: USA Politics Thread |OT| Cleaning up the town
« Reply #2134 on: September 19, 2022, 11:21:53 AM »
Naturally. Once your brain has twisted itself into a pretzel, it's virtually impossible to untwist.

You know the saying, you can lead a Republican to the facts but you can't make make them think.

Most Americans agree with me on immigration, foreigner. :)

When most people in a country agree on something that always makes it right

spoiler (click to show/hide)
[close]
Margs

benjipwns

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Re: USA Politics Thread |OT| Cleaning up the town
« Reply #2135 on: September 19, 2022, 11:22:23 AM »
Did I claim all illegal immigrants are bad people?

No.

But I don't know who they are. 

...

An uncontrolled border leads to sex slavery, human trafficking, human smuggling, drug smuggling, violence, and an entire swarm of humanitarian violations.

How is this not contradicting NAP?

Why should I just trust people to come into my state without being checked just because I will be accused of being racist from by people far, far away from the issue who don't have to deal with it?

Are you fine letting robbers rob houses too? Or are you more fine with calling them "visitors"? Some are migrants, some aren't but all are illegal immigrants
No, I do not think a person should have to get everyone else's permission to invite someone onto their property. Nor do I think that someone should have to get everyone else's permission to travel to a person's property.

You're saying you aren't saying immigrants are bad people but you want to treat them inherently as convicted criminals still serving sentences, a standard to which you do not hold the Americans who are the source of nearly all crimes against Americans. Your very same argument would justify the creation of internal passports and checkpoints to prevent the movement of Americans who could do you harm who you do not know who they are were such things not forbidden by the Constitution. Why should you "just trust people to come into [your] state without being checked" just because they were born in America?

You are further arguing that things that should not be crimes like drugs being crimes justifies the creation of further crimes and greater enforcement by pointing to the first set of crimes. And then pointing to the problems created by this draconian enforcement as further justification for more draconian enforcement. An endless one-way ratchet to make Americans suffer merely to slightly please xenophobes and authoritarians who will never be happy.

benjipwns

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Re: USA Politics Thread |OT| Cleaning up the town
« Reply #2136 on: September 19, 2022, 12:13:40 PM »
The wall should be only one form deterrence and it's precisely why it's not the only thing I listed as border security in my last post. I just consider it one form of border security, like one of the many tools in my pocket knife.
A non solution.

Similarly, conservatives are proposing one of many deterrances for illegal immigrants. A wall is just one of those deterrants. What's the solution or alternative liberals got? "A wall is stupid." Yeah? I posted that the cartel evades a wall if it's erected but at least it's something. What do you propose that's better?
But nothing you're complaining about is significantly coming across the vacant land along the Mexican border. A wall there is security theater. How is a wall going to stop all the people overstaying the expired visas? You want more security at the checkpoints to do what? Stand there and look menacing as we wave everyone through? Or do you actually want all the border traffic halted for long background checks and extensive searches of everything? Or everyone who comes in the country to have a minder of some kind?

Is what you're really asking for to somehow seal the borders more or less permanently? But oddly just one part of it and under the impression that a wall would somehow do this? This makes it all sound like just the politician's syllogism. Wouldn't a better proposal be to just unfuck the entire absurd system that exists solely to suppress free trade?

Nintex

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Re: USA Politics Thread |OT| Cleaning up the town
« Reply #2137 on: September 19, 2022, 12:47:30 PM »
Walls work.

Hungary put up a fence and deports anyone who enters illegally, Poland is building a wall along the border with Belarus.
Israel is basically walls with houses in between and after they closed those borders the number of terror attacks greatly decreased.

If you make it harder to cross fewer people will cross. However, the Mexicans sending their army to the border to please Trump was also very effective.
🤴

Propagandhim

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Re: USA Politics Thread |OT| Cleaning up the town
« Reply #2138 on: September 19, 2022, 01:05:52 PM »
edit: nvm the derail
« Last Edit: September 19, 2022, 01:14:08 PM by Propagandhim »

james

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Re: USA Politics Thread |OT| Cleaning up the town
« Reply #2139 on: September 19, 2022, 01:23:54 PM »
However, the Mexicans sending their army to the border to please Trump was also very effective.

That army surge was in 2019, which if you look at the chart I posted above that you keep ignoring, had the highest amount of border crossings since 2007 when Bush was president (Bush also ran on a wall campaign).

The border between Mexico and Guatemala is 541 miles along a river in the jungle.

The border between Israel and Gaza is 51 miles along a desert

:O

Nintex

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Re: USA Politics Thread |OT| Cleaning up the town
« Reply #2140 on: September 19, 2022, 01:34:44 PM »
Walls work, it's just human nature.

You can put up a knee high fence to mark your garden or block a road and 99% of the people will walk around it.
Only a very few will attempt to jump over it. If you don't have a barrier around your garden it will get trampled and all your beautiful flowers will be messed up.

In COVID times all it took to guide people was arrows on the floor.
That could also work, just paint arrows of where the migrants should walk that lead back into Mexico.  :rollsafe
🤴

Himu

  • Senior Member
Re: USA Politics Thread |OT| Cleaning up the town
« Reply #2141 on: September 19, 2022, 01:42:18 PM »
Naturally. Once your brain has twisted itself into a pretzel, it's virtually impossible to untwist.

You know the saying, you can lead a Republican to the facts but you can't make make them think.

Most Americans agree with me on immigration, foreigner. :)

When most people in a country agree on something that always makes it right

spoiler (click to show/hide)
[close]

Yeah, and we are right about illegal immigrants. You're a Nazi for supporting strong borders? USA is not Europe. Any Nazi comparisons are eye roll worthy and lazy. I'm combating Occam's lazy rhetoric that I am wrong when the country I live in agrees with me: Democrats on abortion and healthcare, GOP on security and foreign policy.
IYKYK

Propagandhim

  • Senior Member
Re: USA Politics Thread |OT| Cleaning up the town
« Reply #2142 on: September 19, 2022, 01:45:13 PM »
Nintex will chastise Italy for requesting money from the EU to secure the Mediterranean border, but will support Americans on another continent who want to block out Mexicans with a wall.  Odd guy.  Many such examples!   

  :trumps

Nintex

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Re: USA Politics Thread |OT| Cleaning up the town
« Reply #2143 on: September 19, 2022, 01:53:16 PM »
Because Italy's problem is ships. NGO's use big ships to pick up the migrants in their small and leaky boats and bring them to Europe.
So friends of Erdogan sell those poor people leaky boats that can only make it half way.

To travel from Libya and Turkey by land you either have to take your chances on the Turk/Greek border or move through Ukraine.


This will surely help with the approval ratings
https://twitter.com/wallstmemes/status/1571887396869865474
« Last Edit: September 19, 2022, 01:58:55 PM by Nintex »
🤴

Himu

  • Senior Member
Re: USA Politics Thread |OT| Cleaning up the town
« Reply #2144 on: September 19, 2022, 01:57:46 PM »
Benji, there's absolutely no reason I should support unvetted illegal immigrants from cartel infested Mexico that terrorizes that country and starts streaks of violence on the border. Thousands streaming into the state of Texas daily, unvetted, who could be very much tied to the cartel. What if they bring guns? What if they come to traffic Americans? Nope. They can fuck off. If they're a genuine migrant who traveled to America to escape political upheaval they have my sympathy and should go through legal channels at the border so that they can be vetted and ID'd. We ID anyone that flies into our borders, we should do so for every single gotdamn channel of entry and I'm not a Nazi for believing so. Finish the wall, force legit migrants genuine and legal entry, relax legal immigration laws so that you don't have to be a rich tech worker to immigrate legally, put more guns on the border, strike a deal with Mexico to make their side of the border also strong. Send guns on the Mexican side of the border too.

I thought the Democrats supported legal entry for migrants? So why let them cross such unsafe territory to America? Nope. Finish the wall and force them through CBP. When immigrants in the past came to America they came through legal channels, namely Ellis Island. Build a wall and make a new Ellis Island like port on the southern border for people to get through legally and welcome to America. If they wanna come, they gotta do it right. End of.

 I won't let the left redefine this word and label all illegal immigrants "migrants". I won't and I will not let them.
IYKYK

Propagandhim

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Re: USA Politics Thread |OT| Cleaning up the town
« Reply #2145 on: September 19, 2022, 01:59:43 PM »
Because Italy's problem is ships. NGO's use big ships to pick up the migrants in their small and leaky boats and bring them to Europe.
So friends of Erdogan sell those poor people leaky boats that can only make it half way.


This will surely help with the approval ratings
https://twitter.com/wallstmemes/status/1571887396869865474

No, it's the infrastructure to temporarily house and relocate migrants that you refuse to subsidize.   And lot of those NGOs are your boats:  Google Sea-Watch 3.    You guys are nestled away in a part of Europe with the strictest immigration policies, and you wouldn't take 47 migrants into your country that you rescued from YOUR FUCKING BOAT, while Italy takes in thousands upon thousands every year.  Go fuck yourself with this American protectionist shit.  :lol  I swear, you have to be on meds to put up with Dutch arrogance.  :lol
« Last Edit: September 19, 2022, 02:07:24 PM by Propagandhim »

Himu

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Re: USA Politics Thread |OT| Cleaning up the town
« Reply #2146 on: September 19, 2022, 02:02:56 PM »
Because Italy's problem is ships. NGO's use big ships to pick up the migrants in their small and leaky boats and bring them to Europe.
So friends of Erdogan sell those poor people leaky boats that can only make it half way.

To travel from Libya and Turkey by land you either have to take your chances on the Turk/Greek border or move through Ukraine.


This will surely help with the approval ratings
https://twitter.com/wallstmemes/status/1571887396869865474

Another day, another Democratic "solution". And that solution of course is ignoring the problem because haha, there is no problem. As much as I hate him I really should have voted Trump. We are in the hands of a geriatric with dementia whose administration is staffed with Twitter addled fa**ots. Far from the centrist he campaigned on.
IYKYK

Nintex

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Re: USA Politics Thread |OT| Cleaning up the town
« Reply #2147 on: September 19, 2022, 02:37:48 PM »
To fix inflation we need to print more money jack :derp
🤴

Himu

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Re: USA Politics Thread |OT| Cleaning up the town
« Reply #2148 on: September 19, 2022, 02:45:34 PM »
Money go BBRRR jack
IYKYK

james

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Re: USA Politics Thread |OT| Cleaning up the town
« Reply #2149 on: September 19, 2022, 02:45:37 PM »
To fix inflation we need to print more money jack :derp

Quote
Inflation in the Netherlands rose to above ten per cent for the first time since 1975 last month, the country's statistics agency said on Thursday.

Prices were 10.3% higher in July 2022 compared to the previous year. Inflation in the month of June was at 8.6%.

https://www.euronews.com/my-europe/2022/08/04/inflation-in-netherlands-above-10-for-first-time-in-nearly-47-years

Joe really gets around. How does the guy manage to preside over so many economies?
:O

Propagandhim

  • Senior Member
Re: USA Politics Thread |OT| Cleaning up the town
« Reply #2150 on: September 19, 2022, 02:46:33 PM »
Because Italy's problem is ships. NGO's use big ships to pick up the migrants in their small and leaky boats and bring them to Europe.
So friends of Erdogan sell those poor people leaky boats that can only make it half way.

To travel from Libya and Turkey by land you either have to take your chances on the Turk/Greek border or move through Ukraine.


This will surely help with the approval ratings
https://twitter.com/wallstmemes/status/1571887396869865474

Another day, another Democratic "solution". And that solution of course is ignoring the problem because haha, there is no problem. As much as I hate him I really should have voted Trump. We are in the hands of a geriatric with dementia whose administration is staffed with Twitter addled fa**ots. Far from the centrist he campaigned on.

The Fed is run by a fiscally conservative Republican.  Increasing rates is exactly what he would do in a Republican admin. 

james

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Re: USA Politics Thread |OT| Cleaning up the town
« Reply #2151 on: September 19, 2022, 02:50:46 PM »
Because Italy's problem is ships. NGO's use big ships to pick up the migrants in their small and leaky boats and bring them to Europe.
So friends of Erdogan sell those poor people leaky boats that can only make it half way.

To travel from Libya and Turkey by land you either have to take your chances on the Turk/Greek border or move through Ukraine.


This will surely help with the approval ratings
https://twitter.com/wallstmemes/status/1571887396869865474

Another day, another Democratic "solution". And that solution of course is ignoring the problem because haha, there is no problem. As much as I hate him I really should have voted Trump. We are in the hands of a geriatric with dementia whose administration is staffed with Twitter addled fa**ots. Far from the centrist he campaigned on.

The Fed is run by a fiscally conservative Republican.  Increasing rates is exactly what he would do in a Republican admin.

Shhhhhh, this thread is devoted to feelings not facts

Quote
The current chair is Jerome Powell, who was sworn in on February 5, 2018.He was nominated to the position by President Donald Trump on November 2, 2017 and later confirmed by the Senate. He was nominated for a second four-year term by President Joe Biden, later confirmed by the Senate and sworn in on May 23, 2022.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chair_of_the_Federal_Reserve
:O

Nintex

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Re: USA Politics Thread |OT| Cleaning up the town
« Reply #2152 on: September 19, 2022, 02:53:55 PM »
To fix inflation we need to print more money jack :derp

Quote
Inflation in the Netherlands rose to above ten per cent for the first time since 1975 last month, the country's statistics agency said on Thursday.

Prices were 10.3% higher in July 2022 compared to the previous year. Inflation in the month of June was at 8.6%.

https://www.euronews.com/my-europe/2022/08/04/inflation-in-netherlands-above-10-for-first-time-in-nearly-47-years

Joe really gets around. How does the guy manage to preside over so many economies?
Our crooked government has an approval rating of 15% :idont
🤴

Propagandhim

  • Senior Member
Re: USA Politics Thread |OT| Cleaning up the town
« Reply #2153 on: September 19, 2022, 03:02:56 PM »
Joe Biden is not the World Economic Arbiter.   Every nation of Europe has above a ~9% threshhold inflation rate, with energy averaging 40%, and non-energy industrial goods increasing to 7%+.    You can read the fed monetary reports to understand what's to be done: https://www.federalreserve.gov/newsevents/pressreleases.htm -- these problems are global and require a global amelioration effort.   Everyone has the same solution for the same problem -- it just takes time.  It'll happen.  Markets are still expected to drop at the expectation of rate increases, but there's nothing you can do about it.  There's a general consensus among economists that forecasts 0+ GDP growth in the fourth quarter and ~1% growth next year, down about half a percentage point from expectations -- that's what this stuff is about.  We're dealing with fractions of a percentage point and slow changes over years.  This is just the way it is.  Playing the blame game with partisan politics doesn't make any sense.  It's not like one party knows what to do and the other doesn't -- the externalities of the world are dealt with the same way by both.  Buy treasuries if you're feeling the pain -- the yields are making record gains.  Brace and wait out the lows.  Short-term pain.  We're all in this together - stop being tribal shitheads.
« Last Edit: September 19, 2022, 03:10:07 PM by Propagandhim »

Himu

  • Senior Member
Re: USA Politics Thread |OT| Cleaning up the town
« Reply #2154 on: September 19, 2022, 03:10:24 PM »
Because Italy's problem is ships. NGO's use big ships to pick up the migrants in their small and leaky boats and bring them to Europe.
So friends of Erdogan sell those poor people leaky boats that can only make it half way.

To travel from Libya and Turkey by land you either have to take your chances on the Turk/Greek border or move through Ukraine.


This will surely help with the approval ratings
https://twitter.com/wallstmemes/status/1571887396869865474

Another day, another Democratic "solution". And that solution of course is ignoring the problem because haha, there is no problem. As much as I hate him I really should have voted Trump. We are in the hands of a geriatric with dementia whose administration is staffed with Twitter addled fa**ots. Far from the centrist he campaigned on.

The Fed is run by a fiscally conservative Republican.  Increasing rates is exactly what he would do in a Republican admin.

Granted, I'm not knowledgeable about economy. I'm not an expert. All I know and see is that the President and Democrats are pretending it's not a problem, which I know a Republican admin wouldn't do because that's what they're strong on.
IYKYK

james

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Re: USA Politics Thread |OT| Cleaning up the town
« Reply #2155 on: September 19, 2022, 03:33:20 PM »
Granted, I'm not knowledgeable about economy. I'm not an expert. All I know and see is that the President and Democrats are pretending it's not a problem, which I know a Republican admin wouldn't do because that's what they're strong on.

Let's not rewrite history.

Trump:
Quote
Stock Markets Crash as Trump Insists Coronavirus Fears Are “Fake News”
The Dow Jones fell 1,700 points and counting.
https://www.vanityfair.com/news/2020/03/global-markets-crash-coronavirus-oil-trump

Bush:

Quote
The Dow Jones Industrial Average sustained its biggest point drop in history and its biggest closing decline since the day the markets re-opened after the Sept. 11, 2001, terrorist attacks. The Dow, which had opened sharply lower on fears of more possible bank failures, finished the day down 7%, with a 777.68 point drop to 10365.45. Losses to shares on the broader Dow Jones Wilshire 5000 index amounted, on paper, to $1.2 trillion -- eclipsing the size of the proposed bailout package. The Nasdaq Stock Market finished down 9.1%.

The widely watched VIX index, a measure of market volatility often called "the fear index," closed at its highest levels in its 28-year history. In early trading in Asia Tuesday, Japan's Nikkei was off 4.5%, and other markets also were down.
https://www.wsj.com/articles/SB122270285663785991

:O

Himu

  • Senior Member
Re: USA Politics Thread |OT| Cleaning up the town
« Reply #2156 on: September 19, 2022, 03:53:52 PM »
Granted, I'm not knowledgeable about economy. I'm not an expert. All I know and see is that the President and Democrats are pretending it's not a problem, which I know a Republican admin wouldn't do because that's what they're strong on.

Let's not rewrite history.

Trump:
Quote
Stock Markets Crash as Trump Insists Coronavirus Fears Are “Fake News”
The Dow Jones fell 1,700 points and counting.
https://www.vanityfair.com/news/2020/03/global-markets-crash-coronavirus-oil-trump

Bush:

Quote
The Dow Jones Industrial Average sustained its biggest point drop in history and its biggest closing decline since the day the markets re-opened after the Sept. 11, 2001, terrorist attacks. The Dow, which had opened sharply lower on fears of more possible bank failures, finished the day down 7%, with a 777.68 point drop to 10365.45. Losses to shares on the broader Dow Jones Wilshire 5000 index amounted, on paper, to $1.2 trillion -- eclipsing the size of the proposed bailout package. The Nasdaq Stock Market finished down 9.1%.

The widely watched VIX index, a measure of market volatility often called "the fear index," closed at its highest levels in its 28-year history. In early trading in Asia Tuesday, Japan's Nikkei was off 4.5%, and other markets also were down.
https://www.wsj.com/articles/SB122270285663785991

Say what you want, but Trump was correct on his Covid policy in the long term. States like Florida and Texas proved him right too. Blue states over corrected with Covid and their economies have paid the price. That isn't Trump denying Covid's existence, it's Trump denying Covid from impacting the economy by creating sanctions and lockdowns. Trump has been proven correct to do so.
IYKYK

Himu

  • Senior Member
Re: USA Politics Thread |OT| Cleaning up the town
« Reply #2157 on: September 19, 2022, 03:55:49 PM »
Joe Biden is not the World Economic Arbiter.   Every nation of Europe has above a ~9% threshhold inflation rate, with energy averaging 40%, and non-energy industrial goods increasing to 7%+.    You can read the fed monetary reports to understand what's to be done: https://www.federalreserve.gov/newsevents/pressreleases.htm -- these problems are global and require a global amelioration effort.   Everyone has the same solution for the same problem -- it just takes time.  It'll happen.  Markets are still expected to drop at the expectation of rate increases, but there's nothing you can do about it.  There's a general consensus among economists that forecasts 0+ GDP growth in the fourth quarter and ~1% growth next year, down about half a percentage point from expectations -- that's what this stuff is about.  We're dealing with fractions of a percentage point and slow changes over years.  This is just the way it is.  Playing the blame game with partisan politics doesn't make any sense.  It's not like one party knows what to do and the other doesn't -- the externalities of the world are dealt with the same way by both.  Buy treasuries if you're feeling the pain -- the yields are making record gains.  Brace and wait out the lows.  Short-term pain.  We're all in this together - stop being tribal shitheads.

I'm not being tribal. I give both parties shit. It doesn't change the fact that Democratic Party messaging on inflation is God awful and proves their streak for elitist ivory tower horse shit. It takes their problems and make them even more unlikable.
IYKYK

james

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Re: USA Politics Thread |OT| Cleaning up the town
« Reply #2158 on: September 19, 2022, 04:11:09 PM »
Blue states over corrected with Covid and their economies have paid the price.

What exactly is your mental process when it comes to making shit up? Where do you get your lies from, and why do you think its ok to repeat them?

Here is GDP data from Q4 2019 (pre covid) to Q4 2021 (post covid).

The top states were:

New Hampshire   8.5%
Utah   7.2%
Washington   7.1%
California   6.1%
Tennessee   6.1%

The worst states were

North Dakota   -2.5%
Louisiana   -2.8%
Hawaii   -4.4%
Alaska   -5.6%
Wyoming   -5.6%

To prevent any confusion, I must note that North Dakota, Louisiana, Alaska and Wyoming were R states with minimal covid restrictions.

Source:
https://www.forbes.com/sites/andrewdepietro/2022/05/17/us-gdp-by-state-and-fastest-growing-states-by-gdp-growth/?sh=29dc46d65a72

Scroll down to second chart (2 year).
:O

Himu

  • Senior Member
Re: USA Politics Thread |OT| Cleaning up the town
« Reply #2159 on: September 19, 2022, 04:40:11 PM »
Blue states over corrected with Covid and their economies have paid the price.

What exactly is your mental process when it comes to making shit up? Where do you get your lies from, and why do you think its ok to repeat them?

Here is GDP data from Q4 2019 (pre covid) to Q4 2021 (post covid).

The top states were:

New Hampshire   8.5%
Utah   7.2%
Washington   7.1%
California   6.1%
Tennessee   6.1%

The worst states were

North Dakota   -2.5%
Louisiana   -2.8%
Hawaii   -4.4%
Alaska   -5.6%
Wyoming   -5.6%

To prevent any confusion, I must note that North Dakota, Louisiana, Alaska and Wyoming were R states with minimal covid restrictions.

Source:
https://www.forbes.com/sites/andrewdepietro/2022/05/17/us-gdp-by-state-and-fastest-growing-states-by-gdp-growth/?sh=29dc46d65a72

Scroll down to second chart (2 year).

You'd do a lot better asking me where I got my data rather than outright insulting me like the liberal elitist I know you are. Keep proving me right, James.

https://www.wsj.com/articles/red-states-winning-post-pandemic-economy-migration-11657030536?mod=hp_lead_pos5

and

https://www.politico.com/interactives/2021/covid-by-the-numbers-how-each-state-fared-on-our-pandemic-scorecard/

Quote
Here are some core takeaways:

    States that imposed more restrictions such as stay-at-home orders and mask requirements did experience lower rates of death and hospitalizations. But they also tended to have worse economic and educational outcomes.

States whose economies are heavily dependent on tourism suffered the most economically, with Hawaii and Nevada hit hardest.

No state did well in every policy area.

Overall, rural states tended to fare better than more urbanized states on economic and educational outcomes. Many rural states, despite being less densely populated, ranked poorly in health outcomes, however.

Quote
The scorecard suggests states that had fewer shutdowns and more rural geography tended to fare better economically than more urban states that imposed more public health restrictions.

States that shut down only briefly – or not at all – rebounded far quicker than those that remained closed. Many of the states that did not issue orders directing residents to refrain from participating in nonessential activities – including Arkansas, Iowa, Nebraska, South Dakota and Utah – had better-than-average economic outcomes on the scorecard.

Again, a state’s political orientation appears to have played a role; eight of the top 10 states in the economic category voted for Trump and were led by Republican governors. All 10 of the bottom states on the economy voted for Biden and nearly all have Democratic governors.

It also appears to matter whether a state was hit hard early in the pandemic. For the most part, states impacted by the first wave of the pandemic — including New York, Massachusetts, Connecticut, Rhode Island and New Jersey — were slower to lift lockdown measures and have had a more sluggish economic recovery.

“You basically had winners and losers chosen early in the pandemic,” said Jason Straczewski, vice president of government relations and political affairs for the National Retail Federation.

States heavily reliant on tourism suffered the worst. Hawaii and Nevada, which cite tourism as a key driver of state economic revenue, ranked at the bottom, with Hawaii earning 0 out of 100 points for its economy. Average monthly unemployment levels there quadrupled over pre-pandemic levels.

The question is where are you getting your info? This is considered fact at this point. Covid restrictions have fucked blue states and their economic recovery as well as education prospects of their children.
IYKYK